Remnant Fellowship 21: 53 Standing Ovations and I Move to Brentwood!

[Baxsmom]

Watched a bit of the service tonight and  there were more shots of the audence then usual.  For the first time, I felt really sorry for these people.  They really believe in this church. They were brainwashed into this cult and now there supreme leader is gone.  Watching old Gwen videos can only last so long.  What are your guys thoughts on how long this will hold together?  And what will happen to the people who dedicated their whole lives to Remnant?  Or do we care?

Scientology had David Miscaviage to take the reigns and keep up the barrage of control and lies.  

[freefromthin]

1 hour ago, Baxsmom said:

Watched a bit of the service tonight and  there were more shots of the audence then usual.  For the first time, I felt really sorry for these people.  They really believe in this church. They were brainwashed into this cult and now there supreme leader is gone.  Watching old Gwen videos can only last so long.  What are your guys thoughts on how long this will hold together?  And what will happen to the people who dedicated their whole lives to Remnant?  Or do we care?

Scientology had David Miscaviage to take the reigns and keep up the barrage of control and lies.  

I have a LOT of mixed feelings about this whole debacle. I DO want Remnant to disband, but I also know what it feels like to be a part of a group and make my WHOLE LIFE about that group. I know what it feels like to leave and feel lost because I BELIEVED that MY GROUP had THE ANSWERS. I actually felt anxiety when I started attending other churches because I was SO AFRAID that I was going to lose my salvation by attending them. No other place really taught things the way that the previous organization did, nor did I find any groups that were quite as tied together as that one was. What I know NOW is that a LOT of that cohesion was forced, and that relationships tend to happen more organically than what I experienced within that group. When I left, I no longer had a network of people who would jump to fulfill my needs because they felt like they had to do so in order to be a true Christian.

I'm also WELL aware of the mental and emotional angst that many might feel when they TRULY get "out there" and find out that there ARE other couples with healthy marriages, loving families and well-behaved children who are not (nor have they ever been) in "the message". Leaving such groups often results in the painful discovery of having been greatly deceived. I feel saddened for them in THAT regard, because they have invested SO MUCH of themselves in "that place". 

[Baxsmom]

52 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

I have a LOT of mixed feelings about this whole debacle. I DO want Remnant to disband, but I also know what it feels like to be a part of a group and make my WHOLE LIFE about that group. I know what it feels like to leave and feel lost because I BELIEVED that MY GROUP had THE ANSWERS. I actually felt anxiety when I started attending other churches because I was SO AFRAID that I was going to lose my salvation by attending them. No other place really taught things the way that the previous organization did, nor did I find any groups that were quite as tied together as that one was. What I know NOW is that a LOT of that cohesion was forced, and that relationships tend to happen more organically than what I experienced within that group. When I left, I no longer had a network of people who would jump to fulfill my needs because they felt like they had to do so in order to be a true Christian.

I'm also WELL aware of the mental and emotional angst that many might feel when they TRULY get "out there" and find out that there ARE other couples with healthy marriages, loving families and well-behaved children who are not (nor have they ever been) in "the message". Leaving such groups often results in the painful discovery of having been greatly deceived. I feel saddened for them in THAT regard, because they have invested SO MUCH of themselves in "that place". 

I am so glad you shared this so we can understand.  Thank you.  I had also read, someone has offered to help people on their journey out of the church.  Is this true?  And I hope you had the support and resources you needed.

[FrumperedCat]

In all honesty are Remnant sharing these sorts of videos? They could certainly boost the reputation for Michael, their supposed co-leader, through doing so as opposed to the current lackluster efforts. 

[freefromthin]

16 minutes ago, Baxsmom said:

I am so glad you shared this so we can understand.  Thank you.  I had also read, someone has offered to help people on their journey out of the church.  Is this true?  And I hope you had the support and resources you needed.

Yes. Meagan Cox has an organization called The Beyond Zion Organization. She has offered to help people who desire to leave Remnant or any organization like Remnant. She was featured in the HBO documentary "The Way Down".

[freefromthin]

15 hours ago, FrumperedCat said:

In all honesty are Remnant sharing these sorts of videos? They could certainly boost the reputation for Michael, their supposed co-leader, through doing so as opposed to the current lackluster efforts. 

In order to appropriately answer this question, I need to know what videos you are referencing. You mention that "they" could certainly boost the reputation for Michael. In what way? I'm seeking clarification so that I know best how to respond. Thanks!

[DietCherryCoke76]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:01 AM, Baxsmom said:

I am so glad you shared this so we can understand.  Thank you.  I had also read, someone has offered to help people on their journey out of the church.  Is this true?  And I hope you had the support and resources you needed.

A whole organization has been formed for this purpose

On 11/7/2021 at 12:14 AM, FrumperedCat said:

In all honesty are Remnant sharing these sorts of videos? They could certainly boost the reputation for Michael, their supposed co-leader, through doing so as opposed to the current lackluster efforts. 

These are videos of Gwen delivering sabbath or class talks in the past.  They are shared via the webcast to the public.  Michael is not in the videos and has only been there for maybe 3 Sabbaths where he was on piano for a couple of songs.  Don't see how any of the videos would promote him

[FrumperedCat]

On 11/4/2021 at 4:49 PM, freefromthin said:

Here is a video of Durville giving his testimony. It starts at the 26 minute mark. 

 

 

Apologies, i meant to refer to this video. Its just there seems to be a lot of comments about Elizabeth and Michael not being present and yet surely there are other resources of them from the past. Like they've done with Gwen.

Can't believe though that this church have it where they're relying on old videos of their leader, and minimal visibility for the new leaders. 

[freefromthin]

5 minutes ago, FrumperedCat said:

Apologies, i meant to refer to this video. Its just there seems to be a lot of comments about Elizabeth and Michael not being present and yet surely there are other resources of them from the past. Like they've done with Gwen.

Can't believe though that this church have it where they're relying on old videos of their leader, and minimal visibility for the new leaders. 

Seems to me that this is what Gwen wanted. She is the most videoed and photographed church leader that I have ever seen. She has been being filmed since (at least) the early 90s. The members of Remnant believe that Gwen has taught them THE TRUTH about how to live righteously AND be saved, so they aren't likely to listen to anyone else. As far as I can tell, NO ONE ELSE has EVER taught a lesson during a church service in the history of the Remnant, so they are unlikely to start now.  Whenever Elizabeth calls in to speak to the church she reiterates the fact that she will continue to push her mother's agenda of "helping people have a relationship with God" forward. This most certainly means Weigh Down as well. 

Elizabeth is currently "taking a break" from the services due to the potential of being filmed by reporters. She has stated that there is an "obsession with her family that needs to go away", and she is waiting for the media hype generated by the HBO documentary to die down. There have been allegations of some legal troubles with Michael, so if true, that probably has a LOT to do with the fact that he is not present. He has also left in the past and it's difficult to say whether or not that might be the case again. Time will certainly tell...

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s gonna be a long time before it dies down since there will be two more episodes dropping next year. 

[CRAnn]

2 hours ago, freefromthin said:

There have been allegations of some legal troubles with Michael, so if true, that probably has a LOT to do with the fact that he is not present.

Legal troubles with Michael?  As in battles between Michael and ??? over Gwen’s estate, or just Michael having legal troubles of his own?  I have wondered why he disappeared from services.  He had been showing up more often than Elizabeth until the HBO documentary came out.

[CRAnn]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s gonna be a long time before it dies down since there will be two more episodes dropping next year. 

Sounds like Elizabeth aims to lay low through the holidays and until the last two HBO documentary episodes air so HBO cannot use any new footage of her “replacing” her mother.  Or at least that is what she seemed to be saying when she last called into a service.  Dang!  We have to wait that long to see if she will actually attempt to lead Remnant with sermons!?! 🤨

She could prove me wrong, but I don’t think she has it in her.  And neither does Michael.  And why should they?  It’s so bizarre that Remnant has a “first family” in that there is an expectation that this “calling” or “gift” has been passed down.  I believe someone referenced N. Korea here when Gwen died.  It’s crazy.  Some of the Remnant leadership are former pastors.  Why don’t they just pull forward a few of them who have pastored a church and decide that they will - using Gwen’s “message” — become the pastors of RF — period.  Several Pastors could make life easy on themselves by sharing the burden.  No need for one Gwod replacement.  That way Gwen could keep her prophet status and Elizabeth and Michael could carry on being music  and youth leaders — revered as the first family without the expectation of prophetic “genes.”  
 

 

[ElleHouston]

The only person I’ve ever seen giving anything remotely close to a sermon on that stage was Marcus Francis. Gwod is selfish and she normally doesn’t share the spotlight. 

[ManyGoats]

9 hours ago, CRAnn said:

 Some of the Remnant leadership are former pastors.

I didn't know that! Which ones?

[Alisamer]

10 hours ago, CRAnn said:

Sounds like Elizabeth aims to lay low through the holidays and until the last two HBO documentary episodes air so HBO cannot use any new footage of her “replacing” her mother.  

If she wasn't doubling down on Gwen's crazy I'd be glad she had a built-in excuse to lay low. She's lost her mother, who was also her pastor and prophet, plus her husband. 

But it seems she's planning to keep up her mom's grift, so. Whatever. 

[AmazonGrace]

14 hours ago, freefromthin said:

 

Elizabeth is currently "taking a break" from the services due to the potential of being filmed by reporters. She has stated that there is an "obsession with her family that needs to go away", and she is waiting for the media hype generated by the HBO documentary to die down. There have been allegations of some legal troubles with Michael, so if true, that probably has a LOT to do with the fact that he is not present. He has also left in the past and it's difficult to say whether or not that might be the case again. Time will certainly tell...

What do the righteous have to hide? If they are The Only True Church that teaches God's own truth, wouldn't it be a good thing to get all this media attention?

More people would hear the message...

[freefromthin]

In regards to Michael...he "allegedly" has legal troubles of his own. These were hinted about in a Fundie Friday video that was released after the death of Gwen Shamblin. Not much else has been mentioned about it, but Michael used to AT LEAST be a part of the music even after gaining weight. It seems like they would squirrel him in and he would be behind the piano and then he'd leave the stage after the music. I've only heard him speak once since his mom died and he as sitting behind the piano during a concert. He alluded to there being some serious testing for them, which is Remnant-speak for opposition against their message.

I haven't seen the message from Marcus Francis, so I can't speak to that. I don't see any current Remnant members stepping up to be the pastor. I believe very strongly that Gwen was and still is the face of that church. The ONLY person I see them accepting is Elizabeth, and I agree that she doesn't seem to be up to it.

[livinginthelight]

Just watched the documentary and all I can say is ....wow. Very worth the HBO membership.

I understand many reasons why Elizabeth would want/need to lay low. But the effect is going to be to create a leadership vacuum, which will hasten the demise of Remnant. Remnant members need a leader - that's part of why they joined, to be told what to do and how to get to heaven. Granted, every other church will be namby-pamby in comparison so some will stick around waiting for Elizabeth. But the longer she stays away, the less cohesive Remnant will be.

Take your time, Elizabeth.

[ChadelBaj]

16 hours ago, CRAnn said:

Sounds like Elizabeth aims to lay low through the holidays and until the last two HBO documentary episodes air so HBO cannot use any new footage of her “replacing” her mother.  Or at least that is what she seemed to be saying when she last called into a service.  Dang!  We have to wait that long to see if she will actually attempt to lead Remnant with sermons!?! 🤨

She could prove me wrong, but I don’t think she has it in her.  And neither does Michael.  And why should they?  It’s so bizarre that Remnant has a “first family” in that there is an expectation that this “calling” or “gift” has been passed down.  I believe someone referenced N. Korea here when Gwen died.  It’s crazy.  Some of the Remnant leadership are former pastors.  Why don’t they just pull forward a few of them who have pastored a church and decide that they will - using Gwen’s “message” — become the pastors of RF — period.  Several Pastors could make life easy on themselves by sharing the burden.  

 

IMO- they would never do this. I think the fact that Gwen was not an actual pastor was the whole point. She talked so many times about pastors leading people into sin and allowing them to stay in their sin/wolf in sheep's clothing type stuff, that RF devotees would never trust anyone who was labeled pastor at any point in their life. They trusted Gwen because she was not like their pastors and I think many would leave if it started to become like a normal church. They LIKE the exclusivity, they LIKE being different. It will be extremely hard to replace Gwen. 

[Nonbeliever]

More local coverage

 

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/gwen-shamblin-interviews-reveal-late-remnant-leaders-thoughts-on-divorce-child-spankings-and-cults

[CRAnn]

12 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

I didn't know that! Which ones?

I’m pretty sure Eldon Gormsen was a pastor of a church for one, but recall hearing at least one or two others say so when testifying on YCOs.  One other guy may not be an official church leader.  I can see his face but don’t know his name.  Yes, they have spoken about it on the YCOs!   

6 hours ago, ChadelBaj said:

IMO- they would never do this. I think the fact that Gwen was not an actual pastor was the whole point. She talked so many times about pastors leading people into sin and allowing them to stay in their sin/wolf in sheep's clothing type stuff, that RF devotees would never trust anyone who was labeled pastor at any point in their life. They trusted Gwen because she was not like their pastors and I think many would leave if it started to become like a normal church. They LIKE the exclusivity, they LIKE being different. It will be extremely hard to replace Gwen. 

I think you have a great point here… and that’s why they want Elizabeth or Michael to rise up and take Gwen’s place.  The fact that Elizabeth rambles at the speed of light saying very little doesn’t matter.. what matters is that she doesn’t sound like a formally educated pastor… and kind of sounds like her mother!  

[ManyGoats]

32 minutes ago, CRAnn said:

Yes, they have spoken about it on the YCOs!

What are YCOs? 

[Freedbygrace]

14 minutes ago, CRAnn said:

I’m pretty sure Eldon Gormsen was a pastor of a church for one, but recall hearing at least one or two others say so when testifying on YCOs.  One other guy may not be an official church leader.  I can see his face but don’t know his name.  Yes, they have spoken about it on the YCOs!   

I would respectfully disagree on this, particularly regarding Eldon Gormsen. Some of the leaders may have been in positions in a previous church such as an elder or deacon or youth leader. However the only one that I know who was a full time pastor while we were there was Don Fischer and he was never one of the leaders. Gwen looked down on pastors of churches, as well as anyone who had seminary or Bible college training. I am sure she saw any pastor as a possible competitor and she needed control.  Plus even having experience in leading a regular church  does not make anyone qualified to follow what Gwen has designed. 

[CRAnn]

54 minutes ago, Nonbeliever said:

More local coverage

 

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/gwen-shamblin-interviews-reveal-late-remnant-leaders-thoughts-on-divorce-child-spankings-and-cults

Wow, Gwen bold faced lied when passing by Michael and telling Phil her son, Michael is currently over in a recording studio recording something.  Then they go into an offer and watch Michael and Elizabeth sing on a video.  Too bad Phil didn’t call her out on it as Michael continued to hang around in the hallway following them around!  Bazaar!  
 

She also responded with some crap when Phil asked her about the Fellowship division and she went on about developing curriculum for “these pastors” of “these new churches!”  She never had any pastors of any Remnant Fellowships anywhere and never developed any curriculum for anything beyond Weigh Down Workshop.  Her RF sermons were all recorded.  Why didn’t she just say so!?!

16 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

What are YCOs? 

The Wednesday evening “You Can Overcome” shows Gwen recorded for years and years.

[CRAnn]

16 minutes ago, Freedbygrace said:

I would respectfully disagree on this, particularly regarding Eldon Gormsen. Some of the leaders may have been in positions in a previous church such as an elder or deacon or youth leader. However the only one that I know who was a full time pastor while we were there was Don Fischer and he was never one of the leaders. Gwen looked down on pastors of churches, as well as anyone who had seminary or Bible college training. I am sure she saw any pastor as a possible competitor and she needed control.  Plus even having experience in leading a regular church  does not make anyone qualified to follow what Gwen has designed. 

It’s possible that I am wrong about Eldon… not sure why I put him in that pastor box, but thought it was part of his testimony.  Don Fischer is not the other guy I’m picturing as having said he pastored… but whoever he is, he HAS been up on stage leading prayers since Gwen died. 
 

I am sure Gwen did look down on pastors of churches, just like she looked down on doctors and many formally trained people.  Even though she liked the good doctor who left Mayo Clinic to relocate to Brentwood, when he and his wife spoke on a YCO and he provided a statistic about what percentage of his ICU patients at Vanderbilt were likely there due to obesity-related disease, she insisted it was probably even higher than what he said.. and in a very in charge of that information kind of way!  🤔