Remnant Fellowship 21: 53 Standing Ovations and I Move to Brentwood!

[Baxsmom]

1 hour ago, CRAnn said:

Wow, Gwen bold faced lied when passing by Michael and telling Phil her son, Michael is currently over in a recording studio recording something.  Then they go into an offer and watch Michael and Elizabeth sing on a video.  Too bad Phil didn’t call her out on it as Michael continued to hang around in the hallway following them around!  Bazaar!  
 

She also responded with some crap when Phil asked her about the Fellowship division and she went on about developing curriculum for “these pastors” of “these new churches!”  She never had any pastors of any Remnant Fellowships anywhere and never developed any curriculum for anything beyond Weigh Down Workshop.  Her RF sermons were all recorded.  Why didn’t she just say so!?!

The Wednesday evening “You Can Overcome” shows Gwen recorded for years and years.

That lie just slid so naturally out of her mouth.  

[freefromthin]

It's interesting to see the change in her appearance in just 3 years.

[freefromthin]

13 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

What are YCOs? 

The You Can Overcome (YCO) shows were one of the many ways that Gwen promoted her Weigh Down program. It would often feature a weight loss "line-up" after which the "guests" would sit down and praise Gwen for her message and for showing them THE TRUTH about how to lose weight permanently and lay down sin. These shows were filmed on Wednesdays on location at Remnant Fellowship. Another interesting fact about the YCO shows is that they appeared to be color coordinated, and I'm guessing that Gwen was the reason for this. There are many seasons of YCO show available for viewing on YouTube.

[quiversR4hunting]

Thank you @Nonbeliever for the link. 

I would have never guessed this was Elizabeth. (Not talking about her haircut). Look at her normal sized face and neck. She should have never lost more weight than whatever she was at this time. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

49 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thank you @Nonbeliever for the link. 

I would have never guessed this was Elizabeth. (Not talking about her haircut). Look at her normal sized face and neck. She should have never lost more weight than whatever she was at this time. 

The “RBF” is strong with this one.

[freefromthin]

16 minutes ago, RFSurvivor_2 said:

The “RBF” is strong with this one.

What is RBF?

[quiversR4hunting]

11 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

What is RBF?

resting bitch face

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thank you @Nonbeliever for the link. 

I would have never guessed this was Elizabeth. (Not talking about her haircut). Look at her normal sized face and neck. She should have never lost more weight than whatever she was at this time. 

I gave my Barbie that exact same haircut when I was seven. 

[MamaJunebug]

I would never have recognized Elizabeth singing on the monitor screen in the 2001 B-roll tour of the offices. She looks of normal weight and healthy skin tone. For that matter, so does Michael. 
 

Other big takeaway: Every woman of some status in the WD / RF offices had. Gwen’s. Haircut. 

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thank you @Nonbeliever for the link. 

I would have never guessed this was Elizabeth. (Not talking about her haircut). Look at her normal sized face and neck. She should have never lost more weight than whatever she was at this time. 

When did the little Hannah baby pass away? I’m wondering if that unmourned - heck, practically unacknowledged! - and tragic loss did as much to her as did her mother’s hateful training about food, early in Elizabeth’s life. 

 

9 hours ago, freefromthin said:

It's interesting to see the change in her appearance in just 3 years.

Whose, please? Elizabeth’s or Gwen’s?  Thanks. 

[freefromthin]

17 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

When did the little Hannah baby pass away? I’m wondering if that unmourned - heck, practically unacknowledged! - and tragic loss did as much to her as did her mother’s hateful training about food, early in Elizabeth’s life. 

 

Whose, please? Elizabeth’s or Gwen’s?  Thanks. 

Gwen's. In the earlier interviews in the news story, her hair looked really healthy, as did her skin. It could be the lighting, the haircut, or something else, but neither her hair nor her skin looked as vibrant in the later interviews.

[ChadelBaj]

16 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I would never have recognized Elizabeth singing on the monitor screen in the 2001 B-roll tour of the offices. She looks of normal weight and healthy skin tone. For that matter, so does Michael. 
 

This clip was interesting to me. I have NEVER liked RF music. Minor chord worship songs just never seemed right to me. And Michael's voice was just....different. BUT, this clip of him and Elizabeth singing together was sooooo much better than anything I have ever heard come out of RF. She is a better vocalist than Michael. Wonder why she stepped away from the music side of things? 

[MamaJunebug]

Again with the hair comments: in 2004, both Gwen & Eliz’s hair was cut extremely blunt. Okay, mother-daughter sharing styles, I get it. But I’m curious to see if other RF women were doing the blunt cut then, too. Betcha! 
 

Much more importantly, Gwen’s inability to hush up was her blessing and her curse, JMHO. From the stage, her semi-coherent patter appealed to the audience of people sincerely seeking answers & guidance. And the services seem designed to get attendees in a state of consciousness where they’re not listening analytically. If I’m totally wrong on that, call me out. It’s just the difference I see between the worship I’m used to, and RF’s.

 

Her motormouth was a curse in that she didn’t know how to handle that news reporter (blessed be his name) at all. The more she prattled and sassed his line of questioning, the more obvious it became that she hid the truth. 
 

I wonder how much his dogged journalism helped stop RF / WD from gaining any more traction than it did. Covering the Smith case and probing the business/ministry cabal surely helped!

 

Lastly, in the 2001 footage, Ted Anger smiles boldly and dare I say mockingly at all the interview questions … until he can’t answer one put directly to him. Then his reaction reminds me so much of how Scientology spokespersons have reacted to tough queries. 
 

Still need to watch the clip in which G “rebukes” (right word?) the journalist. I tell you, this would be two whole lectures in PR “How Not To.”

[freefromthin]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

Again with the hair comments: in 2004, both Gwen & Eliz’s hair was cut extremely blunt. Okay, mother-daughter sharing styles, I get it. But I’m curious to see if other RF women were doing the blunt cut then, too. Betcha! 
 

Much more importantly, Gwen’s inability to hush up was her blessing and her curse, JMHO. From the stage, her semi-coherent patter appealed to the audience of people sincerely seeking answers & guidance. And the services seem designed to get attendees in a state of consciousness where they’re not listening analytically. If I’m totally wrong on that, call me out. It’s just the difference I see between the worship I’m used to, and RF’s.

 

Her motormouth was a curse in that she didn’t know how to handle that news reporter (blessed be his name) at all. The more she prattled and sassed his line of questioning, the more obvious it became that she hid the truth. 
 

I wonder how much his dogged journalism helped stop RF / WD from gaining any more traction than it did. Covering the Smith case and probing the business/ministry cabal surely helped!

 

Lastly, in the 2001 footage, Ted Anger smiles boldly and dare I say mockingly at all the interview questions … until he can’t answer one put directly to him. Then his reaction reminds me so much of how Scientology spokespersons have reacted to tough queries. 
 

Still need to watch the clip in which G “rebukes” (right word?) the journalist. I tell you, this would be two whole lectures in PR “How Not To.”

I was trying to wrack my brain to see if I remembered any other women with a similar hair type wearing such styles, and I just could NOT. When I think back on earlier WD films, I don't remember seeing it either.  I was hoping that some of my straight-haired sisters might be able to offer some insight on it. Back then I was wearing a relaxer and I STILL could not have imagined wearing my hair like that, though I certainly did wear my share of odd styles, LOL! I definitely tried to get my hair to do the Patti Labelle fan thing...and failed miserably!

I was thinking the SAME thing about Gwen's inability to hush being a gift and a curse, and I also wondered whether or not the negative press hindered the growth of the Remnant. They liked to boats about having churches nationwide and around the world. However, it seems like the membership plateaued at around 2,000 or so members, which is far from a mega church if you're including membership in other countries. If any Former Remnant member has more insight, it would be greatly welcomed here. I know the WD private FB group has hovered around 10K for quite some time, but I'm pretty sure that a LOT of those people are non-Remnant members.

I found it interesting to hear Gwen talk about a curriculum for people who wanted to establish other Remnant congregations. I didn't know that was a thing.

[freefromthin]

I decided to watch the replay of the Wednesday service and after the announcements, prayer, and singing, they played a You Can Overcome Show focused on breaking free from the addiction to gaming. Several prominent men in the church admitted to dedicating SO MANY hours per week playing video games. However, once they found Remnant, they were freed from that.

[Alisamer]

17 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

I decided to watch the replay of the Wednesday service and after the announcements, prayer, and singing, they played a You Can Overcome Show focused on breaking free from the addiction to gaming. Several prominent men in the church admitted to dedicating SO MANY hours per week playing video games. However, once they found Remnant, they were freed from that.

I assume that's because Remnant kept them running to and from church so much they simply didn't have time to play?

I get it, playing games too much to the detriment of your life is not OK, but really that seems like scraping the bottom of the barrel for a "testimony" to me. 

(I'm gonna probably play an hour or so of video games later today. The new stuff for Animal Crossing is super fun and I need to re-do the entrance to my island!)

[ChadelBaj]

48 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

I decided to watch the replay of the Wednesday service and after the announcements, prayer, and singing, they played a You Can Overcome Show focused on breaking free from the addiction to gaming. Several prominent men in the church admitted to dedicating SO MANY hours per week playing video games. However, once they found Remnant, they were freed from that.

This is such BS. I knew at one point lots of the guys in RF were playing COD on a very regular basis. Such hypocrisy. "To the Pure, all things are pure."- would be their justification, same with alcohol. Insert massive eyeroll emoji. 

EDIT: RF members who read here: Guess what? You are not different than any other Christian denomination. Point the finger at other people: "Video games are baaaaadddd,  but its cool if we play them because we are honoring god while we do it." It's the same judgmental, holier-than-thou message, just in a prettier package.

Sorry, I'm feeling a bit ranty today.

Edited November 11, 2021 by ChadelBaj
Edited to add.

[Baxsmom]

22 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I assume that's because Remnant kept them running to and from church so much they simply didn't have time to play?

I get it, playing games too much to the detriment of your life is not OK, but really that seems like scraping the bottom of the barrel for a "testimony" to me. 

(I'm gonna probably play an hour or so of video games later today. The new stuff for Animal Crossing is super fun and I need to re-do the entrance to my island!)

I saw it also. You are right.  I can't believe this old video is what they chose to replay, especially with so many eyes on them because of the DOC. 

Enjoy Animal Crossing! I don't have a gaming system so I might binge watch Yellowstone, for hours and hours and then lust after the cowboys.  I am not sure how this false idol thing works, so maybe I will eat donuts too.  Without ANY growl.

[Tatar-tot]

21 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I would never have recognized Elizabeth singing on the monitor screen in the 2001 B-roll tour of the offices. She looks of normal weight and healthy skin tone. For that matter, so does Michael. 
 

Other big takeaway: Every woman of some status in the WD / RF offices had. Gwen’s. Haircut. 

I would like to see the pictures…..they would be a hoot!  

[DietCherryCoke76]

She also responded with some crap when Phil asked her about the Fellowship division and she went on about developing curriculum for “these pastors” of “these new churches!”  She never had any pastors of any Remnant Fellowships anywhere and never developed any curriculum for anything beyond Weigh Down Workshop.  Her RF sermons were all recorded.  Why didn’t she just say so!?!

  On 11/9

 

I believe that was reference to Gwen having a curriculum she used to lecture to new ministers in the local area there in the early years of the church.  They were invited to Remnant to learn the truth on a week night

Why don’t they just pull forward a few of them who have pastored a church and decide that they will - using Gwen’s “message” — become the pastors of RF — period.  Several Pastors could make life easy on themselves by sharing the burden.  No need for one Gwod replacement.  That way Gwen could keep her prophet status and Elizabeth and Michael could carry on being music  and youth leaders — revered as the first family without the expectation of prophetic “genes.”  

 

No, this will not happen. ⏳

[DietCherryCoke76]

11 hours ago, freefromthin said:

I was trying to wrack my brain to see if I remembered any other women with a similar hair type wearing such styles, and I just could NOT. When I think back on earlier WD films, I don't remember seeing it either.  I was hoping that some of my straight-haired sisters might be able to offer some insight on it. Back then I was wearing a relaxer and I STILL could not have imagined wearing my hair like that, though I certainly did wear my share of odd styles, LOL! I definitely tried to get my hair to do the Patti Labelle fan thing...and failed miserably!

I was thinking the SAME thing about Gwen's inability to hush being a gift and a curse, and I also wondered whether or not the negative press hindered the growth of the Remnant. They liked to boats about having churches nationwide and around the world. However, it seems like the membership plateaued at around 2,000 or so members, which is far from a mega church if you're including membership in other countries. If any Former Remnant member has more insight, it would be greatly welcomed here. I know the WD private FB group has hovered around 10K for quite some time, but I'm pretty sure that a LOT of those people are non-Remnant members.

I found it interesting to hear Gwen talk about a curriculum for people who wanted to establish other Remnant congregations. I didn't know that was a thing.

Remnant satellite fellowships in other states 

On 11/10/2021 at 10:10 PM, MamaJunebug said:

When did the little Hannah baby pass away? I’m wondering if that unmourned - heck, practically unacknowledged! - and tragic loss did as much to her as did her mother’s hateful training about food, early in Elizabeth’s life. 

Elizabeth's son died in 2012.  Prior to his death she was more involved in Remnant and Weigh Down

Whose, please? Elizabeth’s or Gwen’s?  Thanks. 

 

[Pathologic Antagonist]

8 hours ago, DietCherryCoke76 said:

She also responded with some crap when Phil asked her about the Fellowship division and she went on about developing curriculum for “these pastors” of “these new churches!”  She never had any pastors of any Remnant Fellowships anywhere and never developed any curriculum for anything beyond Weigh Down Workshop.  Her RF sermons were all recorded.  Why didn’t she just say so!?!

  On 11/9

 

I believe that was reference to Gwen having a curriculum she used to lecture to new ministers in the local area there in the early years of the church.  They were invited to Remnant to learn the truth on a week night

Why don’t they just pull forward a few of them who have pastored a church and decide that they will - using Gwen’s “message” — become the pastors of RF — period.  Several Pastors could make life easy on themselves by sharing the burden.  No need for one Gwod replacement.  That way Gwen could keep her prophet status and Elizabeth and Michael could carry on being music  and youth leaders — revered as the first family without the expectation of prophetic “genes.”  

 

No, this will not happen.  ⏳

No it won't.

Gwen's chaos theory school of theology (chao extra ordinem) is still in place. Nothing that "makes sense" will be really pursued by Elizabeth and Michael. The videos of her "ministry" phone in a couple weekends ago make that very clear.  Gwen was known for doing things on the fly, impulsively, with no explanation or clarification, leaving her sycophants to flesh out details and budgets. Her daughter can hardly be expected to rise any higher than that.

In light of her obvious mental fragility over her terrible losses and her organizational vacuity, expecting Elizabeth to hammer out a master plan that "makes sense" appears to be a waiting game. Someone else is pulling the strings and keeping the lights on enough to mimic purposeful life for public consumption. But as for her and her house, they are going to do what fancies them (feel good, warm, safe, off watch and respected) and no signal can easily be expected out of that arrangement.

Regarding Remnant:  In the earliest days of the church after incorporation, the nature of the congregation life and how they represented it was very fluid. There was the vanilla "Remnant Handbook", which was a publication created by the first working group of RF authors around 2001 or so who penned a generic set of the usual cultic documents exalting the cult and Gwen's vision and the necessity of the emergence of the fellowship as well as guidelines about it. Everyone in the band was issued one and expected to play their parts.

It was created with Gwen's thickly lipsticked seal of approval and was the closest thing to "curricula" she ever released about it.  My copy is somewhere in my archives somewhere and nowhere handy for me to get to.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Pathologic Antagonist

[rabbitholejulie]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:02 AM, Pathologic Antagonist said:

No it won't.

Gwen's chaos theory school of theology (chao extra ordinem) is still in place. Nothing that "makes sense" will be really pursued by Elizabeth and Michael. The videos of her "ministry" phone in a couple weekends ago make that very clear.  Gwen was known for doing things on the fly, impulsively, with no explanation or clarification, leaving her sycophants to flesh out details and budgets. Her daughter can hardly be expected to rise any higher than that.

In light of her obvious mental fragility over her terrible losses and her organizational vacuity, expecting Elizabeth to hammer out a master plan that "makes sense" appears to be a waiting game. Someone else is pulling the strings and keeping the lights on enough to mimic purposeful life for public consumption. But as for her and her house, they are going to do what fancies them (feel good, warm, safe, off watch and respected) and no signal can easily be expected out of that arrangement.

Regarding Remnant:  In the earliest days of the church after incorporation, the nature of the congregation life and how they represented it was very fluid. There was the vanilla "Remnant Handbook", which was a publication created by the first working group of RF authors around 2001 or so who penned a generic set of the usual cultic documents exalting the cult and Gwen's vision and the necessity of the emergence of the fellowship as well as guidelines about it. Everyone in the band was issued one and expected to play their parts.

It was created with Gwen's thickly lipsticked seal of approval and was the closest thing to "curricula" she ever released about it.  My copy is somewhere in my archives somewhere and nowhere handy for me to get to.

 

They left Gwen's name off their plaque?

[Sasha_The_Producer]

Gwen always wore these homemade looking Purses. I have seen others with them and they always look empty what is this about?

[Baxsmom]

On 11/12/2021 at 6:02 AM, Pathologic Antagonist said:

No it won't.

Gwen's chaos theory school of theology (chao extra ordinem) is still in place. Nothing that "makes sense" will be really pursued by Elizabeth and Michael. The videos of her "ministry" phone in a couple weekends ago make that very clear.  Gwen was known for doing things on the fly, impulsively, with no explanation or clarification, leaving her sycophants to flesh out details and budgets. Her daughter can hardly be expected to rise any higher than that.

In light of her obvious mental fragility over her terrible losses and her organizational vacuity, expecting Elizabeth to hammer out a master plan that "makes sense" appears to be a waiting game. Someone else is pulling the strings and keeping the lights on enough to mimic purposeful life for public consumption. But as for her and her house, they are going to do what fancies them (feel good, warm, safe, off watch and respected) and no signal can easily be expected out of that arrangement.

Regarding Remnant:  In the earliest days of the church after incorporation, the nature of the congregation life and how they represented it was very fluid. There was the vanilla "Remnant Handbook", which was a publication created by the first working group of RF authors around 2001 or so who penned a generic set of the usual cultic documents exalting the cult and Gwen's vision and the necessity of the emergence of the fellowship as well as guidelines about it. Everyone in the band was issued one and expected to play their parts.

It was created with Gwen's thickly lipsticked seal of approval and was the closest thing to "curricula" she ever released about it.  My copy is somewhere in my archives somewhere and nowhere handy for me to get to.

 

Gwen had not even updated her will after a divorce and remarriage. And there was alot of money at stake.  Now her church and children have no guidence. Seems reckless when you are a prophet guided by God.