(Possible CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 35: Embattled in Spiritual Warfare!

[AussieKrissy]

8 hours ago, seraaa said:

They're in for an extremely rude awakening

your thoughts to gods ears to make it a reality

[JermajestyDuggar]

I would like to point out that Zach Bates has always been BFFs with John David even though he’s much closer in age to Josh. I don’t think Josh was close to anyone because of the horrible things he did when he was young. John David always seemed closer to Jana and Joe than Josh. 

[mpheels]

4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think they are hoping for a miracle. That a jury full of white Christians will be chosen, who only vaguely know the Duggars as "that big wholesome Christian family that used to be on TV", and will be willing to buy into their "devil made him do it/he's being persecuted for being Christian/he has repented" schtick or will buy that a good Christian father like him couldn't possibly have done this, so it MUST have been some random other person who downloaded this stuff.

This is very unlikely with a federal trial. Prosecutors had to get a grand jury indictment before they could charge Josh. That means a jury drawn from the same community already saw the evidence and decided there was sufficient evidence to charge Josh. The threshold for conviction is higher than for indictment, but the indictment process is the reason federal conviction rates are so high. Josh’s team will have a chance to introduce reasonable doubt by calling witnesses or producing other evidence, but it doesn’t look like they have much to go on based on the filings so far.

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I always thought it mildly odd that the two oldest boys (Josh and JD) were not more of a team.  I don’t mean as friends, but when they were pretending to build the house, for example, it was all Josh, not “the two almost grown boys.” Usually that is what happens with the two oldest boys followed by several sisters.  

I always found it telling that Josh never seemed to have Peer friends JD (did you know he was a pilot) for example was best man at Zac Bates wedding he and Jd have been portrayed as super close leaving josh out who is also eldest like Zac. Josh has never been seen to associate with anyone outside of the family bar Pecan thief and that was only when he became his BIL. 

Did Josh have anyone outside of family males in his wedding party?

Was Zac in JDs? I think Josiah was best man and josh was right on the end and was cut off in pics and footage? or was that Josiah's did josiah have anyone out of the family either? No implication if he didn't just find it interesting if he didnt because he seems to be one that JB cracked down on (lots of time at alert) and I wonder if JBs influence had an effect on his friendship forming days.

I think Josh has never been well liked in his circle. Rightly so. He is a waste of oxygen. 

 

 

 

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would like to point out that Zach Bates has always been BFFs with John David even though he’s much closer in age to Josh. I don’t think Josh was close to anyone because of the horrible things he did when he was young. John David always seemed closer to Jana and Joe than Josh. 

I think you are right. Although John-David was Josh’s best man. But Josh wasn’t for John-David. John said in the special after the first scandal that he no longer respected Josh & I’m sure his respect for him has gone further down since. 

[feministxtian]

4 minutes ago, mpheels said:

Josh’s team will have a chance to introduce reasonable doubt by calling witnesses or producing other evidence, but it doesn’t look like they have much to go on based on the filings so far.

They've been playing the "let's see what sticks" game and losing badly. Josh is an idiot for not taking the plea deal. All the shit his lawyers have pulled and pissing off the judge is not the way to go. I hope they throw the book at him. 40 years (20 on each count) to run consecutively instead of concurrently. He'll be in his early 70's before he gets out. 

[onekidanddone]

Any law nerds here?

Does spousal privilege pertain to federal cases or is it just for state courts?

My understanding of law is limited to L&O SVU

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

I think you are right. Although John-David was Josh’s best man. But Josh wasn’t for John-David. John said in the special after the first scandal that he no longer respected Josh & I’m sure his respect for him has gone further down since. 

I suspect John-David and many others had lost respect for Josh a long time before but were expected to treat him as their responsible older brother for the show.  Once the Ashley Madison news broke, and the original show was discontinued, I believe it became OK for them to say what they thought of him.

[SassyPants]

In terms of Anna in the courtroom, IMO, maybe at key times during the trial (if it comes to that), but everyday? No. Doesn’t she have better things to do? Children to educate, babies and toddlers to mind, a warehouse to clean, laundry, grocery shopping, spiritual work? Sitting in the courtroom like a simpering female is a waste of her time. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Any law nerds here?

Does spousal privilege pertain to federal cases or is it just for state courts?

My understanding of law is limited to L&O SVU

Federal too. It’s long-standing common law. (Not that I bothered to look it up or anything.)

My guess is that the reasons why Josh is disliked by his siblings are about 25% molestations, 25% their parents’ poor judgment (golden eldest child, plus giving him authority over the younger siblings), and 50% his personality.

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

10 hours ago, Jinderella said:

I never found a good translation for the word wholesome. I understand the way the word is used, but I never managed to fully grasp the meaning. 

*Bolding mine. 

Best translation and example of the word ‘wholesome’ is Mr. Fred Rogers. 

 

He was the very definition of wholesome. A true kind and pure soul. 

[PennySycamore]

@Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing, that photo of Mr Rogers bought a smile of my face and a tear to my eye, too.  

[NakedKnees]

So... what I am understanding is that Josh had until earlier this week to accept the plea deal that has been proposed to him. If he didn't, he can either take an "open plea" (with no specific terms set yet), or go to trial on November 30. And we will hopefully find out which course of action is the case in the next few days?

Am I understanding this correctly?

I figured I could probably use some validation in an effort to stop Googling "Josh Duggar" 3+ times per day. Darn it, I thought I was past my Duggar-watching (honestly, obsessing) days! I need a 12 step program for this s***.

[gustava]

16 hours ago, Meggo said:

I really do!! I wasn't born or really raised in the south (Maryland is as close as I got to the south and we moved away when I was 12) but man... cheesy grits sound like heaven about now... wonder if I can buy them in Canada...

 

One does not buy cheese grits; one MAKES them😁   https://www.thekitchn.com/cheese-grits-recipe-23106756

[Meggo]

32 minutes ago, gustava said:

One does not buy cheese grits; one MAKES them😁   https://www.thekitchn.com/cheese-grits-recipe-23106756

True- but first one must FIND grits in the store in Canada. It's hard to find the weirdest things over here. Chocolate graham crackers? Do not exist in Canada. And the graham crackers live in the baking aisle - not the cookie aisle. Cinnamon jolly ranchers? not a thing over here. 
But I will make these when I find them because YUMMMM

[Bassett Lady]

Wholesome person:

kind, considerate, congenial, compassionate, thoughtful, generous, genuine, pure of heart, devoid of corruption or malice, modest, stable, virtuous, helpful, patient.

 

Wholesome activities:

beneficial to physical, emotional, spiritual, and intellectual development while simultaneously being devoid of salaciousness or crude elements  

[Antimony]

9 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

So... what I am understanding is that Josh had until earlier this week to accept the plea deal that has been proposed to him. If he didn't, he can either take an "open plea" (with no specific terms set yet), or go to trial on November 30. And we will hopefully find out which course of action is the case in the next few days?

Am I understanding this correctly?

I figured I could probably use some validation in an effort to stop Googling "Josh Duggar" 3+ times per day. Darn it, I thought I was past my Duggar-watching (honestly, obsessing) days! I need a 12 step program for this s***.

Correct.

So far, it looks like no plea deal has been accepted. But, it's also relatively common for the government, not even as a matter of conspiracy just as a matter of awareness, to file documents like this at end of day Friday because it slows down the news cycle. Last time we got a big Court Docket Dump, it was a Friday evening. Honestly, probably has become standard operating procedure for cases they are aware as newsworthy. 

I don't think he'll take it, that's my bet. 

[Four is Enough]

17 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

 John David always seemed closer to Jana and Joe than Josh. 

I remember one interview with JD, early on in the Josh scandals, where a practically teary-eyed JD flat out said that Josh had disappointed him, he'd never be able to see him in the same way again, etc. I believe JD may have looked up to Josh before that, but I definitely wouldn't say that now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m reminded of Alan Smith. I think that long before the accusations and arrest of Alan, his sisters weren’t close with him. I think he was probably always a fairly awful person. And his sisters knew it. But his parents made excuses for his crappy behavior because he was the oldest boy. I think the same thing happened in the Duggar house and the older siblings saw it. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Meggo said:

True- but first one must FIND grits in the store in Canada. It's hard to find the weirdest things over here. Chocolate graham crackers? Do not exist in Canada. And the graham crackers live in the baking aisle - not the cookie aisle. Cinnamon jolly ranchers? not a thing over here. 
But I will make these when I find them because YUMMMM

My daughter lived in New York for four years and there were always things she couldn’t find.  No matter where you go, the grocery stores seem to stock slightly different things.  (Have you checked Amazon?  They carry them in the USA.)

[Meggo]

2 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

My daughter lived in New York for four years and there were always things she couldn’t find.  No matter where you go, the grocery stores seem to stock slightly different things.  (Have you checked Amazon?  They carry them in the USA.)

Amazon can be tricky- sometimes the cost of importing it (shipping etc) is twice the cost of the item itself. I'll look around - has to be here somewhere...

 

[church_of_dog]

Wholesome to me involves integrity.    Definitely not the impression I have of this family.

[usmcmom]

11 minutes ago, Meggo said:

Amazon can be tricky- sometimes the cost of importing it (shipping etc) is twice the cost of the item itself. I'll look around - has to be here somewhere...

 

Dumb question, but here goes. Would a Canadian grocery store have a “U.S. Foods” section? Our stores have a small “British Foods” section and the same for Asian and Latin (I am not sure exactly how it is worded).

A friend of ours lived in London for a few years and she could only find grits at  Harrods. She said one time she picked up some grits before running by the school to get her kids and she was afraid the other moms would think she was a snob because she had a Harrods sack with her. 😀

[Marshmallow World]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

Dumb question, but here goes. Would a Canadian grocery store have a “U.S. Foods” section? Our stores have a small “British Foods” section and the same for Asian and Latin (I am not sure exactly how it is worded).

A friend of ours lived in London for a few years and she could only find grits at  Harrods. She said one time she picked up some grits before running by the school to get her kids and she was afraid the other moms would think she was a snob because she had a Harrods sack with her. 😀

I don't know about Canada, but I was delighted/horrified seeing the "American Section" in IIRC a Tesco in the UK. I remember specifically that the section had marshmallow fluff and Pop Tarts. It was a while ago, but I'm sure they still have them. 

ETA: Okay, my memory was not playing tricks on me! Apparently they have American sections in all kinds of grocery chains, not just Tesco. It's pretty neat, but also still delightful/horrifying. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Marshmallow World

[Mama Mia]

17 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I suspect John-David and many others had lost respect for Josh a long time before but were expected to treat him as their responsible older brother for the show.  Once the Ashley Madison news broke, and the original show was discontinued, I believe it became OK for them to say what they thought of him.

I wonder too if Josh’s issues didn’t soak up a lot of his parent's time and focus. Not so much that he was the “golden boy” as presented, but that they were keeping him extra close to try to keep him out of trouble, trying to find him hobbies (film and video editing probably not the best choice in retrospect) trying to fix him, jobs, a wife, etc….

That’s really common with any problem/high needs child - whether it’s drugs, violent behavior, mental illnesses - whatever. It soaks up the parents energy, they are constantly focused on fixing THAT kid, the other kids end up really resentful.
Multiply that by how awful Josh’s issues were, homeschooling-so isolated, and just the sheer number of children vying for attention —- it’s an absolute set up for most of the siblings  not being friends with Josh even before everything blew up. 
 

Josh is less than 2 years older than JD and Jana, so it’s kind of strange they put so much emphasis on him being the “big brother” except to separate him from the others.