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(Possible CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 35: Embattled in Spiritual Warfare!


nelliebelle1197

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2 hours ago, Browneyed Girl said:

I’ve been thinking about whether or not Anna will be forced to take the stand and say Josh was with her and couldn’t have downloaded the material.  If she takes the stand doesn’t it wave marital privilege and the prosecutors can cross examine her.  

Plus if his lawyers know she wasn’t with him there is no way they’re going to suborn perjury.  though I wouldn’t put it past JB or Josh to lie to the lawyers. 

This whole mess has been triggering for me so I tend not to comment on it much.  I’m glad he turn down the plea deal because now he’s looking at more FEDERAL time.  

 

If there was a potential alibi, a list, with contact information, had to be submitted to the court on Tuesday. I really doubt they're dumb enough to put Anna on the stand. She would never hold up to cross-examination.

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4 hours ago, Idlewild said:

 

This family has lived in a privileged bubble for so long I think they really struggle with the concept that cheesy grins and made up wholesomeness isn’t going to get them through this.

I read this as "they really struggle with the concept that cheesy GRITS" and I thought "oooo - I could "struggle" with some cheesy grits right about now....." 

Clearly - I need more coffee...

 

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2 minutes ago, seraaa said:

The longer this goes on, the more it sinks in that he really is probably going to prison? It's getting real.

But for these people who seen to exist in an entirely different world, the longer this goes on and he stays out of prison the more confident they might get that he will wiggle out of it. 

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1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

But for these people who seen to exist in an entirely different world, the longer this goes on and he stays out of prison the more confident they might get that he will wiggle out of it. 

They're in for an extremely rude awakening

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I wonder if Anna is now regretting her decision to stick by Josh when her brother offered her help. I can't believe she isn't wondering what her life would be now if she has kick J to the curb years ago...

I am definitely seeing the Duggar being shocked at the trial when he will be found guilty, they will not be able to believe it. If there was a way to share the jury from having to see those videos I will enjoy a trial way more 

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18 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

I wonder if Anna is now regretting her decision to stick by Josh when her brother offered her help. I can't believe she isn't wondering what her life would be now if she has kick J to the curb years ago...

I am definitely seeing the Duggar being shocked at the trial when he will be found guilty, they will not be able to believe it. If there was a way to share the jury from having to see those videos I will enjoy a trial way more 

Oh I’m sure she would counter any tiny thought of that with, “well if I had left him years ago, I wouldn’t have my seven beautiful children.” I very much doubt she regrets not leaving him years ago. I bet her regrets have to do with her blaming herself. Because fundies always blame the wife.

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37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh I’m sure she would counter any tiny thought of that with, “well if I had left him years ago, I wouldn’t have my seven beautiful children.” I very much doubt she regrets not leaving him years ago. I bet her regrets have to do with her blaming herself. Because fundies always blame the wife.

ITA.   Anna has probably a lot of time twisting herself into an emotional pretzel wondering "what she did wrong" to cause Josh's misdeeds.   Also, given she was raised to believe that her purpose in life was to have as many kids as possible, she would probably see having her 7 children as some sort of consolation.   There's nothing wrong with that but it probably isn't enough to drive away any doubts / guilt (however misplaced) she may feel.  I mean she was clearly besotted with Josh when they got married and learning some very inconvenient truths about him had to have been devastating.   She was clearly struggling after the first Joshgates while Josh was doing time in Jesus Jail.

And I agree Anna is the last person to be put on the stand during the trial.   Not just for her sake, as she will be going through enough just sitting in the courtroom, but she would not hold up to questioning.  

6 hours ago, Idlewild said:

This family has lived in a privileged bubble for so long I think they really struggle with the concept that cheesy grins and made up wholesomeness isn’t going to get them through this.

This.   This family has "wholesomed" their way through life, managing to continue as before in spite being outed as truly dysfunctional and shady.   And that's the stuff we know about...there's probably more that we don't.   It's been going on for so long, that yeah, I don't think they understand that they might be hitting the end of the "wholesome, Christian family" road.

 

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Anyone who still thinks there's anything "wholesome" about the Duggars as a whole needs to re-evaluate carefully. Josh is clearly not any description of "wholesome", whatsoever. Jim Bob and Michelle hid his indiscretions and instead of getting him real help, waved it off as "satan". They also got the girls who he molested no help, and gaslighted them into forgiving him and later into going on national TV talking about how it wasn't a big deal. They've essentially sold their children for money and fame. They pick out the worst parts of Christianity and double down on them. JB is clearly motivated by money more than anything. 

They are not good, wholesome people. Some of the kids might have been, or could be in the future, but the family as an entity and as a brand is not "wholesome" at all.

(Also I kind of hate the word "wholesome". It's such a subjective thing and also gets used to beat up people who don't fit that description. And generally if a piece of media is labeled "wholesome" I assume it's going to be bland, boring and annoying.)

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28 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Also I kind of hate the word "wholesome". It's such a subjective thing and also gets used to beat up people who don't fit that description. And generally if a piece of media is labeled "wholesome" I assume it's going to be bland, boring and annoying.

I often watch the Hallmark channel late at night, because I like "The Waltons" reruns.  The ads drive me batshit, though - for what has seemed well over a month the channel has been advertising their "Countdown to Christmas" coming up.  They're about to start the actual Countdown (new wholesome shows that I won't watch), so I guess it'll be another 2+ months of those ads*.  I find them sickeningly sweet; e.g.,friends tittering "Merry Chreeesmuuus" to each other at practically dog whistle pitch, and the same ones are repeated over and over and over...  I'm getting better at hitting the mute button, though.

* I'm cool with Christmas ads before Christmas, but I really don't want to hear much about it before Thanksgiving and certainly no more than an occasional reference during the summer.

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I never found a good translation for the word wholesome. I understand the way the word is used, but I never managed to fully grasp the meaning. 
 

I’m glad the Pest decided to go to trial, but I don’t understand it at all. The media will absolutely cover all the details about the horrible kind of images he had (age of the children involved) and I struggle to see any defensive strategy they have left. So I see more publicity, more costs, more jail time. What are they hoping to win?

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I dislike the word wholesome too - but it’s a word Duggar supporters often used to describe them eg ‘ refreshing to have a wholesome family on TV’ etc.

JB & M are extremists, using a brand of religion to justify their extremism. JB is also a greedy control freak. He saw an opportunity to make money and control his family. His behaviour has left them educationally stunted so they either have to rely on him or marry their way out. Why he is given a platform to speak about parenting I’ll never know.

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34 minutes ago, Jinderella said:

I’m glad the Pest decided to go to trial, but I don’t understand it at all. The media will absolutely cover all the details about the horrible kind of images he had (age of the children involved) and I struggle to see any defensive strategy they have left. So I see more publicity, more costs, more jail time. What are they hoping to win?

I think they are hoping for a miracle. That a jury full of white Christians will be chosen, who only vaguely know the Duggars as "that big wholesome Christian family that used to be on TV", and will be willing to buy into their "devil made him do it/he's being persecuted for being Christian/he has repented" schtick or will buy that a good Christian father like him couldn't possibly have done this, so it MUST have been some random other person who downloaded this stuff.

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Josh may be hoping for a miracle but I don't think JB is. I think he knows Josh is going to prison either way and it doesn't matter to him whether that is for 3 years or for 40. He does not want a guilty plea because that is an admission of guilt. I think the big picture now is to hang on to their loyal Christian followers because they already have irretrievably lost the occasional TLC fan who might have bought into the 'wholesome' family façade. There will still be that alt-right Christian contingent who will believe the 'Josh wasn't the one who downloaded the content' argument because it fits into their paranoia of government overreach and an evil secular society out to get them. 

I don't think JB's main focus is trying to get Josh off with lesser prison time. 

Edited to add: Right now it seems as if a plea was not made. If it turns out otherwise, then I shift my stance slightly, in that I think they are making the wisest choice possible, probably under the guidance of counsel. I will still maintain that I think JB's focus is not Josh, but on how JB can recover or maintain his standing in his Christian circle AND how he can translate that standing into cash. Honestly, I don't think reputation means all that much to JB either, except for how he can manipulate it into providing a flow of income.

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5 hours ago, Meggo said:

I read this as "they really struggle with the concept that cheesy GRITS" and I thought "oooo - I could "struggle" with some cheesy grits right about now....." 

Clearly - I need more coffee...

 

🤣🤣🤣  Clearly you need cheesy grits too. 😉

4 hours ago, Italiangirl said:

I wonder if Anna is now regretting her decision to stick by Josh when her brother offered her help. I can't believe she isn't wondering what her life would be now if she has kick J to the curb years ago...

I am definitely seeing the Duggar being shocked at the trial when he will be found guilty, they will not be able to believe it. If there was a way to share the jury from having to see those videos I will enjoy a trial way more 

I suspect Anna does not allow herself to think about or regret choices she has made because there is only pain there.  She may be at the “just do what comes next” stage, not letting herself feel.

As for the Duggars, some may see the writing on the wall, and some may be surprised, but except for JB and Michelle, I doubt any of them are thinking that much about Josh going to jail or not. They all seem busy with their own lives.

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I think they’re just hoping he gets away with it, and the family gets off, just like before. I genuinely believe there is still an element of “we are untouchable” belief in them.

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Has Josh ever been shown to be particularly close to any of his siblings? I realise his social media was closed down, but it always struck me that while some of the brothers hang out and the sisters do, somethings with Anna, Josh has never really been seen to.

It could be that he was the eldest so lorded it over them- the girls had to do his laundry, the boys had to obey him, or because he married so young, he’d left before many of them were old enough to be his friend. Or maybe they all realised he was a creep and kept away.

So it may be the siblings are shocked or perhaps saddened by events, but they are not going to be devastated by it.

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16 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Has Josh ever been shown to be particularly close to any of his siblings? I realise his social media was closed down, but it always struck me that while some of the brothers hang out and the sisters do, somethings with Anna, Josh has never really been seen to.

It could be that he was the eldest so lorded it over them- the girls had to do his laundry, the boys had to obey him, or because he married so young, he’d left before many of them were old enough to be his friend. Or maybe they all realised he was a creep and kept away.

So it may be the siblings are shocked or perhaps saddened by events, but they are not going to be devastated by it.

No it’s never seemed to me that any of the siblings were his friends. It he older ones probably just didn’t like him and probably discouraged the younger ones from getting to close even if they couldn’t put it into words. The blatant favoritism he gets from their parents can’t help either. 

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57 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Hold up, did we get confirmation Pest is going to trial?

I don't think we have seen confirmation. 

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58 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Hold up, did we get confirmation Pest is going to trial?

We haven’t, but the last chance for him and his attorneys to arrange a plea deal directly with the prosecution passed on October 18, and there’s been no announcement that any deal was made.

It is still possible for a plea deal to be arranged up to ten days before the trial, but that would have to involve the judge. Others have said that it is very unusual for Federal judges to accept last-minute plea deals, but I can’t confirm or deny that from my own knowledge.

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2 minutes ago, Jess said:

No it’s never seemed to me that any of the siblings were his friends. It he older ones probably just didn’t like him and probably discouraged the younger ones from getting to close even if they couldn’t put it into words. The blatant favoritism he gets from their parents can’t help either. 

I always thought it mildly odd that the two oldest boys (Josh and JD) were not more of a team.  I don’t mean as friends, but when they were pretending to build the house, for example, it was all Josh, not “the two almost grown boys.” Usually that is what happens with the two oldest boys followed by several sisters.  The three oldest girls seemed to work on a lot of projects together, and eventually you could see “groups” within the crowd, but neither Josh nor JD seemed to click.  

I suspect that it was more that Josh showed off and looked down on the younger ones more than that they were turned off by what they knew of him.  When JD spoke on “Counting On” after the Ashley Madison thing, he said something about always having looked up to Josh but no more.

It may be that all the kids to some extent believed that Josh was special—smarter, more articulate, more likely to succeed— both because he told them so and because the parents endorsed it,   Josh’s molestation of his sisters was framed as, “A teenage mistake that he has repented from, and let that be a lesson to you that anyone can sin if they are not careful.”  So the distancing from Josh from the boys was probably because he was a bit of a bully and the others were in awe of him.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

🤣🤣🤣  Clearly you need cheesy grits too. 😉

 

I really do!! I wasn't born or really raised in the south (Maryland is as close as I got to the south and we moved away when I was 12) but man... cheesy grits sound like heaven about now... wonder if I can buy them in Canada...

 

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4 hours ago, Jinderella said:

I never found a good translation for the word wholesome. I understand the way the word is used, but I never managed to fully grasp the meaning. 
 

I’m glad the Pest decided to go to trial, but I don’t understand it at all. The media will absolutely cover all the details about the horrible kind of images he had (age of the children involved) and I struggle to see any defensive strategy they have left. So I see more publicity, more costs, more jail time. What are they hoping to win?

Just for funsies, and because I think this is a word that clearly is hard to define even in English, I will offer my best attempt at a description without having any direct translation. Wholesome should describe something that is the emotional equivalent of hot, whole wheat bread with seeds on the crust fresh out of the oven. It is fulfilling (emotionally, though) and associated, usually, with both the home and hearth and a nostalgia for a home and heart. It may also be heartwarming, but unlike heartwarming things, doesn't involve the potential for it to be a response to something sad. It's a quality of being fulfilling without another context and of being innocent and untouched. Fresh, hot, home-baked whole-wheat organic bread made for no special occasion. But, like, the emotional synesthesia equivalent of that. (I adore untranslatable words, but usually I'm thinking about them because I'm learning something about another language, so thinking about difficult-to-translate English words? *chefs kiss*)

The Duggars could never achieve it. 

I've also posted something to this effect elsewhere but I genuinely cannot think of a worse person to put on the stand than Anna Duggar. Really, any Fundie but Anna types (Priscilla, maybe a Younger-Jill) specifically. To survive in the cult, especially as a woman in the cult, you have to be decently able to talk without saying something that is too strong of an opinion, too strong of a statement, etc (lest it contradict the Leader. Teri can't even remind Steve to pick up Pizza, right?). So this skill becomes a habit and Anna, in particular in her talking heads, would often answer questions in a way that wasn't too specific but made sure the Beliefs Were Clear. She does a lot of doublespeak, a lot of hedging, and a lot of filler (bible verses, common sayings, catchphrases). This just wouldn't work in court, and putting her on would never be worth the risk. 

 

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