Remnant Fellowship 20: Popping Popcorn, Waiting for the Bewigged Tiger King....

[ChadelBaj]

9 hours ago, JuneJuly said:

Questions for ex-members (or anyone that might know)

Does anyone know of any groups/websites/forums for ex-members?

This might be a good place to start  

https://www.facebook.com/beyondzionfoundation/

[freefromthin]

18 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She’s doing this thing with her hair where it’s kind of up and curly. She normally wore her hair pin straight. And her clothing just looks much younger and more colorful. She seems to wear clothing I might see on a 21 year old. Like her big baggy jeans, a big brightly colored top. And I guess her makeup has been less pale for a year or so now. So I guess that’s not new. She used to look so pale and dead. Now her makeup is darker so she doesn’t look like a pale ghost. 

Gwen mentioned on more than one occasion that she told Elizabeth (while growing up) that she could not wear more than 4 colors at a time. Now that her mother's not here to criticize her choices, maybe she can be free to be herself.

[Pathologic Antagonist]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:23 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I love this. I love how creative people are. I complain about social media and all the bad parts, but I do love how we can easily share our creativity with one another. 

This is absolutely the BEST fan art I've ever seen about something. I'm printing and framing this on my wall.  It so COMPLETELY captures not only the bad doctrine but the wicked practice this cult puts its members through.  Whoever you are, thanks for brightening my office walls. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

Gwen mentioned on more than one occasion that she told Elizabeth (while growing up) that she could not wear more than 4 colors at a time. Now that her mother's not here to criticize her choices, maybe she can be free to be herself.

What a strange rule from a woman with gigantic hair. You would think she came up with the rule based on not looking too busy or loud. But her hair is about as loud as you can get before you hit 80s rocker status. 

[Pathologic Antagonist]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:09 PM, Freedbygrace said:

Good evening. I am a long time member of RF who has been following the thread and have felt led to comment. Our family were members for about 12 and moved to TN to be close to the church. Fortunately we have been out for about 6 years now but still live on the area and know of some the ongoing drama. 
 

First of all, regarding the exposing of RF members, I would hope that anybody is careful. There are many members that are good people who are deceived or feel scared and stuck there with no place to go. These are the people who need prayers and courage to get out of there.
 

On the other hand, I believe that many in leadership positions (especially long term) know of the secrets or scandals behind the scenes and choose to ignore it because they benefit in some way. 
 

Our family is doing much better but it has been a struggle. We were made to feel unworthy because we never lost all the weight. There are so many others that we know whose lives have negatively impacted because of RF. It has been a healing time since the plane crash and we look forward to getting more healing through the documentary. 

Good to see you've come through as far as you have. Many sadly never quite get that far and suffer for years stuck in self-incrimination, false guilt and all kinds of negativity which consume them .. and convince them that the whole concept of "true religion" is a sham.

For those just starting their transition out of Remnant, the Beyond Zion Foundation online exists to help. Short term assistance is available there.  I was asked to become a board member and help out on occasion. I don't post here often enough to know all the rules about sharing stuff here, but if you Google the Foundation online, you'll find it. They have a Facebook page as well. Everyone involved with the BZF works, has family lives and do what they can to help so please be patient if you don't hear from them immediately. 

I am the director of Spiritwatch Ministries and we are available for assistance as well (yes, I actually do have a life outside of combatting this cult and the others I've been asked about but I do my best to remain available). We have a Facebook page and our website also. We've hosted support groups off and on and a recovery from RF workshop takes place a few weeks here. Our case load of confidential counsel (from a pastoral perspective) is going through the roof now. We believe the cultism of Remnant has to be dealt with and its impact upon the individual squarely addressed before anything else is explored and we've helped a lot of people. Godspeed to you.

18 hours ago, Freedbygrace said:

@JuneJuly responding to your questions for ex-members. 
1. I am not aware of regular groups/websites/forums for ex-members. There were two gatherings in the Brentwood area earlier this year that were good meetings. Hopefully there will be another soon. 
2. As far as helpful things it is good to talk to someone who understands what you have been through. Fortunately my wife and I, plus our now adult son, left RF at about the same time and can talk about our feelings. My wife has also rekindled friendships with some other women who left and that has been beneficial for her. 
3. We are still struggling with eating and have put on a lot of our lost weight but there is no guilt now. 
4. I understand your embarrassment to discuss RF. I did not tell anybody in our new church my history with RF until after the plane crash. I found they were not judgmental like I anticipated. I believe it will be easier after the documentary. 
5. The things I would like to tell every ex-RF member is to know how much God loves them. He is mot just waiting to zap you when you eat that one more bite. Instead He wants to give you a huge hug (as only someone who is Love can do) and rejoice over you with singing and dancing (see Zeph 3:17).

(I will pray for you. PM me if there is anything I can do to help.)

Forums exist online for ex-RF members.   PM me for details.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Pathologic Antagonist

[freefromthin]

Remnant Fellowship's website has been redesigned. They now feature a "Remembering Our Leaders and Friends" section and they also have this on the front page:

A church of change

Learn how to practically put into practice the teachings of Jesus Christ and finally experience the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control talked about in the Bible (Galatians 5:22-26)!

[Strawbernana]

The Guardian published a good article about the upcoming series and interviewed the producer and director. They also include info about what topics will be covered. There’s no paywall; you may get a pop-up asking you sign up but you can choose not to and still read the whole thing. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/29/gwen-shamblin-docuseries-the-way-down-remnant-fellowship

[throwaway9988]

So tonight at midnight? I should probably take a nap so I can stay awake 

[cookingbutterchicken]

14 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

So tonight at midnight? I should probably take a nap so I can stay awake 

I have thought about this!  If I didn’t have to work!🤪🤪🤪

[RFsurvivor]

27 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

So tonight at midnight? I should probably take a nap so I can stay awake 

It’s midnight PST from what I’ve heard

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

There's also this on the website front page:

Quote

 Under the leadership and direction of Elizabeth Shamblin Hannah and Michael Shamblin, we have an incredible hope for the future as we continue to heal and grow in love for God as a congregation.

Interesting as neither Elizabeth nor Michael are the faces seen leading RF.  

Edited to add:   No reappearance of the Days and/or Angers on the Leaders page.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[freefromthin]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

There's also this on the website front page:

Interesting as neither Elizabeth nor Michael are the faces seen leading RF.  

Edited to add:   No reappearance of the Days and/or Angers on the Leaders page.

 

This stood out to me as well: You will NOT find hypocritical church members, judgmental families, or church leaders who are only interested in adding numbers to the membership! 

Seems like they have decided to do a rebranding right before the release of the documentary.

[RFFriend]

44 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

This stood out to me as well: You will NOT find hypocritical church members, judgmental families, or church leaders who are only interested in adding numbers to the membership! 

Seems like they have decided to do a rebranding right before the release of the documentary.

I was just on Facebook and Elizabeth Hannah's pics were on my feed posted by a mutual friend.  There's a lot of public pictures on her FB page.  I thought someone had said that she had made everything private on social media... maybe they are turning things back on?

[TDHuggies]

1 hour ago, RFFriend said:

I was just on Facebook and Elizabeth Hannah's pics were on my feed posted by a mutual friend.  There's a lot of public pictures on her FB page.  I thought someone had said that she had made everything private on social media... maybe they are turning things back on?

If you search her name on FB you’ll see her only post since the plane crash says “Praising God for so many beautiful memories over the past year w family, friends, and loved ones!”
With that comment she added about 75 photos…not one single photo of her mother. Nor any of other church events or leaders. BUT quite a few of her father, her grandmother and looks like maybe a aunt and uncle? Lots of the kids and Brandon. To me that’s VERY interesting. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by TDHuggies

[finacial ice]

On 9/25/2021 at 8:08 PM, cookingbutterchicken said:

Before my divorce we went to one feast of tabernacles. My teenager said it was a drinking fest and there were bottles everywhere and even the kids drank. Any former members know of something like this?  I wasn’t allowed to “camp” as my ex didn’t want me to. 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️ You know, had to be under my leadership. I didn’t really care as I hate camping. 
 

My teenager also said there was more alcohol when the kids were made to clean up than anything else in the trash. Then came Taco Bell trash. The kids would also open any they thought still had some and drank it. 
 

I just can’t believe that there was no hooking up with the teenagers. Mine didn’t even know where his dad was all night. Come to think of it, Could have been some hooking up with adults. My ex could never keep it in his pants anyways!!!!

no hook up with the teens as they are all horrified to even do such a thing, but the adults might be a different story....

On 9/28/2021 at 11:45 AM, livinginthelight said:

Regarding church bailout money, my average-sized church did apply for and receive some money during the first round of funding. It didn't strike me as weird. Donations to the church had fallen off sharply, and there were salaries for pastors and office staff that needed to be paid. Our musicians (music director, instrumentalists) were suddenly completely out of work  and they were given a month or two of pay. Our lawn needed watering (the part that isn't drought-tolerant - we need a grass area for certain youth activities), and water is expensive in California. Utilities need paying on an ongoing basis. In addition, it is written in our budget to support certain missionaries who were depending on us.

The amount of our PPP loan/grant was less than 20% of our yearly budget. It carried us through the first few precarious months.

When it became clear that giving was (partially) rebounding, our leadership decided we didn't need the second round of funding.

 

RF received an enormous amount of PPP.  Including the businesses she owned, which didn't  even suffer from the financial loss during the pandemic!!!  

[SayonaraLara]

2 hours ago, RFFriend said:

I was just on Facebook and Elizabeth Hannah's pics were on my feed posted by a mutual friend.  There's a lot of public pictures on her FB page.  I thought someone had said that she had made everything private on social media... maybe they are turning things back on?

Just hours ago, Michael‘s Facebook page also was suddenly updated. He’s been social media silent for years, and a day before the documentary release, he’s profiling his OLD skinny picture and playing the doting family man?!

 

 

[throwaway9988]

5 minutes ago, SayonaraLara said:

Just hours ago, Michael‘s Facebook page also was suddenly updated. He’s been social media silent for years, and a day before the documentary release, he’s profiling his OLD skinny picture and playing the doting family man?!

 

 

Smells like a PR person running social media accounts and working overtime right now due to the documentary

[Nonbeliever]

4 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

Smells like a PR person running social media accounts and working overtime right now due to the documentary

It does seem deliberate, doesn’t it? And desperate. And perhaps hastily done, based on the poor grammar, “it’s the best wife and childen” ??

[throwaway9988]

Who up?

Pretty effective to start the series with clips of Gwen just straight up lying under oath over and over. Even RF members will have to admit she is lying because they all know people who have been shunned and asked to leave for being overweight too long. 
 

Currently seeing a lot of familiar faces in old RF footage and hoping really hard not to see myself lol. 
 

Now Im feeling a bit sorry for the young adults who are having their first relationships and sexual experiences shared by the parents just in order to establish that their daughter was taught how to be sneaky. Sorry if the parents are reading this, I know you were just being honest about how events transpired. I just think the editors should have left that particular detail out. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[RFSurvivor_2]

 

1 hour ago, throwaway9988 said:

Who up?

I’m up and moving! I’m currently reorganizing my office / studio.@RFsurvivor and I will be watching the documentary this evening.

1 hour ago, throwaway9988 said:

Sorry if the parents are reading this, I know you were just being honest about how events transpired. I just think the editors should have left that particular detail out.

Ah, I don’t have to watch the documentary to know who this is…

They have had such an awful, gut wrenching, hair pulling experience with RF. My heart goes out to them.

Edited September 30, 2021 by RFSurvivor_2
Fast fingers

[throwaway9988]

I mean, only 5 minutes later Im back to feeling awful on behalf of the parents. It really is a heartbreaking story. 
 

@Pathologic Antagonist You did a great job being really informative and well-organized!

 

Im really proud of all the ex-members and family members who have shared their stories on the documentary so far. You all are so brave and I hope that sharing your stories and knowing that you are helping people in the audience avoid RF and other cults can help bring you healing and peace. 
 

I dont really know who some of the other religion experts are but I feel like some of them are missing the boat a bit regarding Gwen’s views on the Trinity and the implications for Remnant’s theology which follow from Gwen’s views on the Trinity. Although Gwen did deny the Trinity, I dont remember Gwen ever denying that Christ was divine. Gwen just thought Christ is not the same person as God, is therefore capable of having a correspondingly different Will than God’s Will, and is ultimately subordinate to God. This is a critical distinction to make, because Gwen thought that we all needed to model our subordination to God and his authority line on how Christ gave up his Will and submitted to God’s Will for him to be sinless and die. So Gwen’s ideas about the Trinity/Subordination directly resulted in her beliefs about grace, about achieving purity, about obedience and authority, etc. And understanding all of those beliefs is really important to understanding WD and RF.  So I wish these other religious commentators had been a bit more accurate about the whole Trinity thing. However, for the vast majority of people watching the documentary, I’m sure it is the smartest and most effective move to just focus on the so-called heresy of denying the Trinity and leave it at that. No need for everyone else to get lost in the weeds with me lol. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[throwaway9988]

Just finished episode 1. Never met her in my life, but I think Im a Natasha Pavlovich stan now 😅

 

edit: okay yep Im definitely a Natasha stan.  Also a Helen Byrd stan 

 

The exposé on Joe Lara’s grift of Gwen has been great so far. I think it’s a story that will be captivating for the wider audience of randos out there. But more importantly, for the RF members who watch this, they will know: the woman who called herself God’s prophet and told everyone that it was God’s will for her to divorce her husband and marry Joe Lara instead (reportedly with the rest of RF leadership unanimously supporting this course of action) was likely being fooled. And that’s who they are trusting to tell then the “truth” about what God wants, about what will happen after they die, about a bunch of other unprovable stuff? The woman who was clearly NOT being led very well by God’s Will? The RF members who watch this will have a lot of rethinking to do.  For me, it was a turning point when Gwen got on stage and said every scientist on earth was wrong about dinosaurs and that dinosaurs were a hoax or a mistake. I thought, if she’s so obviously wrong about this provable thing, why can’t she be wrong about all the unprovable things she is getting up on stage and saying? So hopefully this documentary can make Gwen’s decision to get a divorce and marry Joe Lara serve the same purpose for some of the other RF members. 
 

edit: omg they even included that cringey clip of Joe chasing Gwen around the house on his hands and knees 🤣 im dying

Edited September 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[RFsurvivor]

4 hours ago, finacial ice said:

no hook up with the teens as they are all horrified to even do such a thing, but the adults might be a different story.... 

Some teens yes and other teens no. Many were as you put it horrified to do that, but there were others who were sneaking about and hooking up hoping to not get caught

[throwaway9988]

It’s unbelievable how hypocritically Gina Wilson was treated by Gwen and the RF leaders. About divorce and the whole “blessings for obedience, curses for disobedience” thing. If you’ve watched episode 2 then you know what Im talking about. Gwen’s usual emphasis on personal accountability really seemed to just fly out the window in both of these instances. I dont have anything to add since Gina did an amazing job of breaking it all down for the audience despite how painful it must have been for her. I’ll just say that Gwen and RF leadership’s hypocrisy in those instances is honestly just appalling. 

[throwaway9988]

Wow. The revelation that the married “Sarah” had an affair with a struggling, also-married Michael Shamblin just so that she would have leverage to escape RF without Gwen spending $$$$ on lawyers and drawn-out legal battles (Gwen had already threatened to punish Sarah for leaving by taking custody of her child away). This could be the plot of the next bestselling tragedy. My heart really goes out to both Michael and Sarah for having to live those experiences. I hope Michael can escape someday, too. Putting this in spoilers since these details werent previously known on FJ afaik.

 

This documentary has really made an impression on me so far.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Destiny
remove unnecessary spoiler