Joe & Kendra 16: Praise - ing Their Brooklyn All the Day Long!

[Vivi_music]

12 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

In Quebec (Canada), it was fairly common for Francophone Catholics to have Marie or Joseph as their first names. I don't know if that's still the case, but I remember a kid in my elementary school in the 1980's telling me that.

It's less common now, but it was very much the naming tradition for all French Canadians all the way until the 1970-80's.

The thing though, even if the name is placed first in the naming order but no one considers it a first name. The order was usually Marie/Joseph, name of the godmother/godfather and given name. The name of the godparents were important because they were usually the ones present for the christening. The christening was traditionally considered the moment the name became official.

For example (fake names), my Mom was born in the 1950s and her names are Marie Thérèse Suzanne. Marie or Joseph is of course in honor of the Virgin Mary/Joseph, Thérèse is her godmother and Suzanne is her given name, the one she uses in her everyday life. No one ever uses Marie Thérèse when talking to her.

Even if it's placed first, it's similar to a ''middle name'', in the sense that it's never really used in everyday life and usually, only close family members know it,

Now the naming tradition has really shifted and it's becoming similar to the ''Anglo-saxon'' naming order, being first name, middle name and family name.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

It's less common now, but it was very much the naming tradition for all French Canadians all the way until the 1970-80's.

The thing though, even if the name is placed first in the naming order but no one considers it a first name. The order was usually Marie/Joseph, name of the godmother/godfather and given name. The name of the godparents were important because they were usually the ones present for the christening. The christening was traditionally considered the moment the name became official.

For example (fake names), my Mom was born in the 1950s and her names are Marie Thérèse Suzanne. Marie or Joseph is of course in honor of the Virgin Mary/Joseph, Thérèse is her godmother and Suzanne is her given name, the one she uses in her everyday life. No one ever uses Marie Thérèse when talking to her.

Even if it's placed first, it's similar to a ''middle name'', in the sense that it's never really used in everyday life and usually, only close family members know it,

Now the naming tradition has really shifted and it's becoming similar to the ''Anglo-saxon'' naming order, being first name, middle name and family name.

For years I'd thought this was a German thing as it's so common on both my Catholic and Mennonite German ancestors and have since learned it's common in Catholic cultures all over the world.  I work with a largely Mexican population and it's no exaggeration to say ~70% of the women on my employee roster have the first name Maria and go by their middle name.  I don't see the same with the men.  

I do love the Mexican custom of having both parents surnames...although when I first started working I had no idea how many of the people I worked with were married to each other, since none of the women took their husband's name.  

[Expectopatronus]

My cousin goes by his third name. His switched the order of his names when they realized what the initials spelled but liked that name the best. 

[Cat Damon]

All of my ancestors came from Ireland in the late 1800s/early 1900s and their naming system makes it so hard to track accurately. I have a cousin who has taken it on, and Rufus bless him because I did the Ancestry thing and it was so hard to make sense of. I'm so glad my family quit doing that naming system. I know there are some Irish people on here- is this still common over there? I have some cousins that live in Donegal and they seem to have abandoned it at this point. 

Here's what I found for reference (under spoiler):

Spoiler

• First son usually named for the father's father
• Second son usually named for the mother's father
• Third son usually named for the father
• Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
• Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
• First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
• Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
• Third daughter usually named for the mother 
• Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
• Fifth daughter usually named for the father's eldest sister

 

[Mrs. Kravitz]

6 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

All of my ancestors came from Ireland in the late 1800s/early 1900s and their naming system makes it so hard to track accurately. I have a cousin who has taken it on, and Rufus bless him because I did the Ancestry thing and it was so hard to make sense of. I'm so glad my family quit doing that naming system. I know there are some Irish people on here- is this still common over there? I have some cousins that live in Donegal and they seem to have abandoned it at this point. 

Here's what I found for reference (under spoiler):

  Reveal hidden contents

• First son usually named for the father's father
• Second son usually named for the mother's father
• Third son usually named for the father
• Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
• Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
• First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
• Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
• Third daughter usually named for the mother 
• Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
• Fifth daughter usually named for the father's eldest sister

 

What's worse is they don't always follow that order. I'll be honest, I often don't research my Irish lines before immigration. Those records give me a huge headache. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

All of my ancestors came from Ireland in the late 1800s/early 1900s and their naming system makes it so hard to track accurately. I have a cousin who has taken it on, and Rufus bless him because I did the Ancestry thing and it was so hard to make sense of. I'm so glad my family quit doing that naming system. I know there are some Irish people on here- is this still common over there? I have some cousins that live in Donegal and they seem to have abandoned it at this point. 

Here's what I found for reference (under spoiler):

  Hide contents

• First son usually named for the father's father
• Second son usually named for the mother's father
• Third son usually named for the father
• Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
• Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
• First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
• Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
• Third daughter usually named for the mother 
• Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
• Fifth daughter usually named for the father's eldest sister

 

Fwiw that's the same list as what you find for German and Polish naming customs.  I wish my ancestors followed it more consistently and it would make gaps easier to investigate.  

The one thing I found with one of my German lines recently was families with multiple kids and all named for God parents.  Did they specifically choose God parents because they liked the names, or did they not care what they names their babies.  I'm assuming the latter as I have probably 200 people all using and reusing the same damn ~10 names over and over.  

Seriously five related families in the same small area all have 8+ kids and every family has a Johann, Anton, Georg, Wilhelm, and Peter.  So you have multiple people with identical names born close together in the same area....who then go on to have large families and reuse all the same damn names.  Not to mention using the same names in the same family when a kid dies the next one of that gender gets their name.  It's like they knew I'd be trying to sort this out and did this to mess with me on purpose.

[SassyPants]

My husband has first cousins with the exact same names as his 3 oldest siblings. So a brother and sister each named their first 3 kids Ann, John and Bob. WTH!

[Irishy]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

Unrelated but kind of sound alike one of my favorite girl names is Aisling - pronounced like Ash-ling.  It's one of the three names I wish I'd known about before I had my daughter as they'd have been in the mix for her.  As it is no more kiddos ....maybe I'll get fish just so I can use the names.  

Aisling has been consistently popular in Ireland for years. I have a sister with the name. It derives from the Irish Aislinn meaning dream. It’s a great name in fairness.

[HereticHick]

13 hours ago, Jana814 said:

The guy who did the bathrooms in our house is a man named Ashley. Very unusual in our area. 

Hmmm... are you in the Asheville area? If so, you are probably referring to a lovely high school classmate of mine.

[Irishy]

29 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

All of my ancestors came from Ireland in the late 1800s/early 1900s and their naming system makes it so hard to track accurately. I have a cousin who has taken it on, and Rufus bless him because I did the Ancestry thing and it was so hard to make sense of. I'm so glad my family quit doing that naming system. I know there are some Irish people on here- is this still common over there? I have some cousins that live in Donegal and they seem to have abandoned it at this point. 

Here's what I found for reference (under spoiler):

  Hide contents

• First son usually named for the father's father
• Second son usually named for the mother's father
• Third son usually named for the father
• Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
• Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
• First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
• Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
• Third daughter usually named for the mother 
• Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
• Fifth daughter usually named for the father's eldest sister

 

Irish person here. Never heard of this! Children are often named after parents or grandparents (maybe less so these days), but never heard of a prescribed naming order.

[Cat Damon]

15 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Seriously five related families in the same small area all have 8+ kids and every family has a Johann, Anton, Georg, Wilhelm, and Peter.

Ours are all Ann, Josephine, Frances, Mary (I still have four people named Mary in my close extended family and multiple Mary/Marie middle names), and then David, Francis, John, Timothy (also still have four Timothys in my family), and the occasional Aloysius.

They really wanted to mess with all of us it seems.

Edit: okay those names or versions of them are all still really prevalent in my family now that I'm thinking about it, so good luck to my descendants! ?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cat Damon

[Jana814]

5 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Hmmm... are you in the Asheville area? If so, you are probably referring to a lovely high school classmate of mine.

No I live in Northern New Jersey. 

[Meggo]

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Fwiw that's the same list as what you find for German and Polish naming customs.  I wish my ancestors followed it more consistently and it would make gaps easier to investigate.  

 

And Mennonite - every family has a Helen, Margaret, Elizabeth, Sarah, Anne, Peter, Jacob, Henry, Cornelius, William. I do wonder if there is a set order to it - I'll have to ask my husband. I know his brother was named for his Dad (the first son) but I don't know if he (2nd son) was named for an uncle or a grandpa? 
No middle names on any of them - probably hard enough to give 10 kids ONE name... 
Although it will drive future geneologists bonkers since our marriage license has my husbands first name, mother's maiden name and his last name on it. (and the name on there is the Spanish version of his name since the only doc he brought with him that day was his cert of birth abroad and he was born in Mexico, and he doesn't HAVE a middle name but they made us put his mom's maiden name - which he had to call and ask for because he didn't know). It's a running joke in our family like I'm married to Jose Smithfield Last name but I only know Joe Lastname - so who the heck DID I marry. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I do love the Mexican custom of having both parents surnames...

Mexico is a vast country. This is not the custom in all of Mexico. Best not to generalize about all of Mexico. It is a charming custom, though!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

28 minutes ago, Irishy said:

Irish person here. Never heard of this! Children are often named after parents or grandparents (maybe less so these days), but never heard of a prescribed naming order.

My Irish lines don't follow any of those customs either, besides one son usually being named after the father.  

Just now, Jackie3 said:

Mexico is a vast country. This is not the custom in all of Mexico. Best not to generalize about all of Mexico. It is a charming custom, though!

I am aware Mexico consists of more than the families of the immigrants with whom I work, but as they explained it to me as a Mexican custom I'm fine with the phrase I used.  Also, when you google it it's not like it's confined to a small area of the country.  

Most people understand that when talking about customs it won't apply to every person in the referenced culture, but rather being common to a particular culture. 

My father was born in Germany and we were raised on German food.  I hate both pork and sausage (and beer) but I'm not going to demand people qualify #NotAllPeopleOfGermanDescent whenever someone posts about German food.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

I went to school with a male Courtney. I know a few male Shannons and a male Leslie.

Are there any feminine names that have transitioned to masculine? There must be but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

Just wanted to let you know this is now the question my brain keeps chewing on when bored.  I am determined to find one, but so far I can't think of any.

(I have a unisex name that started as a male nickname and now is used more my girls in the US, but still common enough for guys that I get a lot of mail addressed to Mr. MyRealNameWhichIsMoreUnisexThanBuffy.  

[Jinder Roles]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:56 AM, bal maiden said:

Why do these discussions about 'my mum's sister-in-law once knew a kid called X' always end up sounding a little ...racist? ...classist? 

 

 

Ugh. 

Lol, because it is. I definitely had to unlearn my internalized classism related to names. 
 

However, I’ve noticed that certain regions/people are more judgy about names than others. 
 

A lot of names that (white) Americans think are way out of the box are pretty normal to me. 

[JordynDarby5]

 On Castle Alexis's high school boyfriend was named Ashley. 

[JanasTattooParlor]

26 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Just wanted to let you know this is now the question my brain keeps chewing on when bored.  I am determined to find one, but so far I can't think of any.

(I have a unisex name that started as a male nickname and now is used more my girls in the US, but still common enough for guys that I get a lot of mail addressed to Mr. MyRealNameWhichIsMoreUnisexThanBuffy.  

I’m with you on this being stuck in my brain since it was asked. The only thing I’ve come up with was Sage maybe? I’ve seen more boys lately getting named this even though I think it’s more feminine. I’ve met male a couple male Harpers before which I’d classify as a feminine name and I know a YouTuber just named her son Calliope which is definitely feminine, but no name that I can think of or research has been originally a girl name and then become such a popular boy name. I’m going to keep researching, because this is nagging the back of my brain so bad!

Edited May 28, 2021 by JanasTattooParlor

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

I’m with you on this being stuck in my brain since it was asked. The only thing I’ve come up with was Sage maybe? I’ve seen more boys lately getting named this even though I think it’s more feminine. I’ve met male a couple male Harpers before which I’d classify as a feminine name and I know a YouTuber just named her son Calliope which is definitely feminine, but no name that I can think of or research has been originally a girl name and then become such a popular boy name. I’m going to keep researching, because this is nagging the back of my brain so bad!

Me too....we'll find one!  

The only Sage I'd heard of was Stallone's son, so control sample of one for me but he's male.  

[AnywhereButHere]

My son had a friend with a father named Tony, mother Toni, and older brother also Tony. The friend's name was something very not related to Tony in any way. I always wondered (but never asked) how he felt about being the only one with a unique name in his family. 

[LittleOwl]

15 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

I know a few male Shannons and a male Leslie.

I was in my mid twenties when I met a female Lesley for the first time - I have only known male Leslies.  Same for Aubrey actually. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:10 PM, Mrs. Kravitz said:

I also have a fascination with names. I ultimately don't care what other people name their kids as long as it's not harmful, but I'm always fascinated on their reasoning on why they named them. The transition of what we consider a feminine name vs a masculine name is interesting too. Lindsay, Ashley, Evelyn, Marion, Beverly, etc, all started out as masculine names. 

I always liked Nevaeh, too. We have several Mi'Angel's (with various spellings) in our program, and I always think that name is so sweet. 

I have to admit, Mi'Angel makes me twitch a little, but that's because of the apostrophe after working with background checks for one job. Hyphens and apostrophes in names wreak havoc with A LOT of databases; it's one of the reasons we didn't hyphenate our kids' last names.

33 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

I’m with you on this being stuck in my brain since it was asked. The only thing I’ve come up with was Sage maybe? I’ve seen more boys lately getting named this even though I think it’s more feminine. I’ve met male a couple male Harpers before which I’d classify as a feminine name and I know a YouTuber just named her son Calliope which is definitely feminine, but no name that I can think of or research has been originally a girl name and then become such a popular boy name. I’m going to keep researching, because this is nagging the back of my brain so bad!

Harper falls more into the trend of first names as last names (Piper, Cooper, Madison, etc.).

[Mrs. Kravitz]

1 hour ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I have to admit, Mi'Angel makes me twitch a little, but that's because of the apostrophe after working with background checks for one job. Hyphens and apostrophes in names wreak havoc with A LOT of databases; it's one of the reasons we didn't hyphenate our kids' last names.

I definitely get that. Our database at work allows you to type in the apostrophes but it will cause all sorts of errors down the line if you put it in. Hyphens seem to be ok but the apostrophes throw off the system. But then when you print things, people get upset because their kids' names aren't spelled right. There's no winning. 

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Just wanted to let you know this is now the question my brain keeps chewing on when bored.  I am determined to find one, but so far I can't think of any.

(I have a unisex name that started as a male nickname and now is used more my girls in the US, but still common enough for guys that I get a lot of mail addressed to Mr. MyRealNameWhichIsMoreUnisexThanBuffy.  

How about a boy named Sue? I'll see myself out.