Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

[lumpentheologie]

I know what most of my female friends are using for birth control (late 20s to late 30s). It’s just another life struggle to talk about for us , I guess. Pretty much everyone is using an IUD or the pill. One friend who was using pull out got pregnant and had an abortion. I wouldn’t recommend it as a method but I don’t think anyone I know would be okay with having a surprise baby. A lot of us don’t want kids at all or anytime soon, and certainly no one wants to get pregnant during Covid. 
 

I have a hormonal IUD and it’s one of the best things that’s ever happened to me. I want to keep it in till I go through menopause so I never have a period again. I’m also surprised so many people are down with pulling out.  Besides the risk, in my experience it makes the sex way worse. (Anxiety + not getting to come at the same time.)

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, Daisy0322 said:

I would say I know the method about 80% of my friends are using. I’m late 20s. 
in general 
married with kids- vasectomy

married want kids or more kids- pull out

single in a relationship - pill 

single- condom and pill

This makes sense.  If you don't want or can't have kids, pulling out is dangerous.   Not only does the timing have to work, you have to hope there are no swimmers in the pre-ejaculate.   When I was in 7th grade health class (ah, the 1970's) , we were told pulling out is almost impossible for teen boys/young men to handle and even if it works perfectly, used for a year 25% of women will end up pregnant. 

Most of my friends' husbands had vasectomies after 2 or 3 kids.   My best friend wanted no kids at all and her husband refused to have a vasectomy so she went ahead with tubal ligation at 25.  I remember she had a hard time finding a doctor to do it.  And she and her husband are still happily married and child-free, living the dream in New Zealand.

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, Thorns said:

Reflections on the importance of women in the life of Jesus? Isn't this rather progressive for a Duggar family church alumni?

I gotta say, I'm impressed with Jill for this. She's doing genuine Bible study with some actual historical references that isn't misogynistic or degrading to women. She's actually digesting the message, noting that culture is different now (without saying how terrible and satanic it is), and paying attention to context. And it's non KJV, as well. 

Considering the family she comes from, and the SOTDRT education she got, this is pretty big for her. And I think it shows she's plenty capable of independent thought and learning.

I'd love to see her go to college if she wants, once the boys are both in school. I feel like she'd probably enjoy it and learn a lot.

Also, I'm a little annoyed. If Jill is this capable after her stunting upbringing, how much more could she have done with a decent education and encouragement to keep learning? How much more could ALL those kids have done? They've popped out a zillion kids and kept them all suppressed and half-educated. 

[Four is Enough]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:38 PM, Sheltie said:

I’m still surprised how Jill turned out.  In the early years of the show I would have thought she would have been the one still single and living at home instead of Jana.

Funny. I always figured Jill to be one of the first to get out and get married.

On 9/23/2020 at 7:06 PM, Johannah said:

I think once DD is employed and Sam is in kindergarten (so, fall of 2022), Jill is going to go to school herself, likely to become an RN/midwife

Imagine her surprise when she has to take the entire OB section and gets no credit whatsoever for her "midwifery" experience.. and I'd love to see how she takes to learning facts.

On 9/24/2020 at 12:22 AM, baldricks_turnip said:

 There must be alliances and factions, a lot of gossip behind your back.

Heck, with my brother, sister, and SIL, and me, there are alliances and factions... keeping 19 straight, not to mention spouses, fuggedaboutit!

 

On 9/25/2020 at 6:46 PM, SassyPants said:

Derick knows the Duggars lack a basic education. I’m not sure Jeremy knows that, or even cares. He’s more into the frivolous: hair, body, clothing-

"I've got the band, I've got the car, I've got the hair...." sorry, couldn't resist..

Spoiler

On 9/27/2020 at 4:28 PM, Belugaloo said:

In my circle it seems far more common to not react well to hormonal options and to be terrified of getting the copper IUD so it seems like most of us use these methods once we are at a stage where an accidental pregnancy wouldn't be a huge deal.

A diaphragm is another barrier that could be used...

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Did we already talk about the sexy bedroom giveway Jill's doing on Instagram? She is giving away a sexy bedroom gift basket with gift cards to some marital aid companies, coconut lubricant, massage candles, and much more. 

I know what the next title thread will be.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Did we already talk about the sexy bedroom giveway Jill's doing on Instagram? She is giving away a sexy bedroom gift basket with gift cards to some marital aid companies, coconut lubricant, massage candles, and much more. 

I know what the next title thread will be.  

Is she giving it away herself, or just promoting a company’s giveaway? The rest of the Instagram story has links to their Instagram and app. Her parents might be shocked, but they might also see it as the modern version of their promotion of Ed Wheat’s book. The company definitely has a “wholesome bedroom fun for married heterosexuals” feel.

[mpheels]

4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Also, I'm a little annoyed. If Jill is this capable after her stunting upbringing, how much more could she have done with a decent education and encouragement to keep learning? How much more could ALL those kids have done? They've popped out a zillion kids and kept them all suppressed and half-educated. 

I often come back to this and just get angry/sad. Every single one of the older Duggar kids had some type of dream for their future beyond having lots of babies, but JB and Michelle stunted any real chance for achievement. In the very first 14 Kids special, the older kids were old enough to know what they wanted to do, and not so deep in the grift to say stuff for show. Even Josh had potential and probably could have become a lawyer if his parents got him the help he needed as a teenager. 

[The Mother Dust]

On 9/21/2020 at 8:34 AM, louisa05 said:

I don’t think it’s cool at all. And I didn’t say it was. But there it is. It’s a 180 degree turn from what they used to believe. I think it comes from living in the evangelical culture that creates superstars and validates people based on external things. This couple were in a cult like church for several years.  Their homeschooled kids, one adopted from a foreign country and thus “saved” by them gave them lots of points in that world. I suspect on her mind a trans or non-binary kid would give her points and importance and validate her change in beliefs.  She told me that around six years ago. I hope she’s moved beyond it. We rarely talk now as she moved and became so rigidly left wing she’s difficult—in all the time I knew her prior she was working her way out of her parents’s fundamentalism including their years in the cultish church  which was a departure theology and practice wise. They grew up in a world without nuance, so their new belief system lacks it too. And there are issues about money that preclude a balanced friendship. 
 

 

I know exactly the kind of person you are talking about.  One of the elders in my family, an interesting but frustrating second cousin, is SO left wing, she's almost come around the circle to being conservative.  She's the only one I know IRL who is like that.  I like to talk with her, but it's challenging/can be frustrating at the same time.  I can absolutely see her saying something like your friend did.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I know what most of my female friends are using for birth control (late 20s to late 30s). It’s just another life struggle to talk about for us , I guess. Pretty much everyone is using an IUD or the pill. One friend who was using pull out got pregnant and had an abortion. I wouldn’t recommend it as a method but I don’t think anyone I know would be okay with having a surprise baby. A lot of us don’t want kids at all or anytime soon, and certainly no one wants to get pregnant during Covid. 
 

I have a hormonal IUD and it’s one of the best things that’s ever happened to me. I want to keep it in till I go through menopause so I never have a period again. I’m also surprised so many people are down with pulling out.  Besides the risk, in my experience it makes the sex way worse. (Anxiety + not getting to come at the same time.)

My IUD made me insane, literally. It exacerbated my anxiety, caused extreme depression, I gained 40 pounds in 4 months. the 3 doctors I saw said all of this was impossible, it was just because I was fat. That is a whole other set of posts, doctors dismissing fat women for any and everything.  I couldn't take the pill after my 2nd child it caused me to have migraines. 

The only woman I know who used the pull out method used condoms when she & her then boyfriend (now husband) started having sex in their teens. She did a combo of NFP/PO/Condoms over the past 30 years (they are 49 & 50). She is a massive control freak, she's got a Google MD, is anti vax, anti hormonal BC, she's also the one who lied to her midwife about her 2nd baby turning breach a few days before she delivered, at home, the baby almost died, and she spent the next year dealing with CPS because she was charged w/ child endangerment & was banned from every midwife w/in 150 miles and several OB offices.  So she's not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but she did manage to only have 1 unplanned pregnancy when she was 35.

  

TMI and a bit vulgar so you can skip over. 

Quote

You cum at the same time as your partner? I've never done that, ever.  I'd say we're doing it wrong, but we usually need a bucket and a mop when its all said and done.   So it seems pretty right to me, at least he makes sure I get mine and mine again, and again and sometimes even again, before he's done. 

Vasectomy 15 yrs ago took away the anxiety, the IUD was to help with my endometriosis pain. 

 

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

This makes sense.  If you don't want or can't have kids, pulling out is dangerous.   Not only does the timing have to work, you have to hope there are no swimmers in the pre-ejaculate.   When I was in 7th grade health class (ah, the 1970's) , we were told pulling out is almost impossible for teen boys/young men to handle and even if it works perfectly, used for a year 25% of women will end up pregnant. 

Those are not correct statistics, at least not what I've read in the past ten years. I always hesitate to provide the actual stats, because I think it's best for teenagers to be using something else, but since most reading here aren't horny teenage boys here goes:

It is not at all impossible for young men to handle (porn alone should disprove that...) though they probably aren't as familiar with their ejaculation signals as a more experienced man, so yeah, not a great idea for the very young crowd. 

It's about 82% effective as practiced, so only one in five women will get pregnant within a year of using it. (Those are decent odds if you're okay with having children at some point.) However, if done perfectly  (the man withdrawals before ejaculation every.single.time), the practice has a 96% success rate--compared to a 98% success rate with perfectly used condoms. (Condoms as used have a 17% failure rate, by the way.) 

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywmm9k/pulling-out-is-as-effective-as-using-condoms

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/09/25/32881434/theyve-been-pulling-out-for-the-last-year-and-shes-not-pregnant-is-that-a-bad-sign

I get why we generally discourage relying on withdrawal: it's unlikely to be effective for teenagers just learning about their bodies with a variety of partners, and obviously doesn't protect against STIs. However, it's not as bad as commonly made out. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by nausicaa

[The Mother Dust]

On 9/27/2020 at 12:21 AM, marmalade said:

It's a Jesus version of the Kama Sutra. Not the real thing! Jill actually made a post clarifying that after everyone assumed it was the real thing. She emphasized that the book was for MARRIED couples in HETEROSEXUAL relationships. 

Some form of the bolded needs to be a post count title or thread title.  It's too good.   "Uses Jesus version of the Kama Sutra". ?.  If a post count, it should be an early one so fundies who come here to freak out, get their freakyness called out.   ?    ?

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Mother Dust

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@Four is Enough would you be quoting Peggy Sue got married?? I watched it for the first time ages the other week! Do love the film!

[seraaa]

16 hours ago, Thorns said:

Reflections on the importance of women in the life of Jesus? Isn't this rather progressive for a Duggar family church alumni?

Absolutely, and it's also possible to be mainstream/conservative (Catholic or Protestant) and appreciate this. There are differing opinions among Southern Baptists, I'm sure, but I'm thinking of people like Beth Moore who demonstrate that there is variety within the SBC.

Edited September 30, 2020 by seraaa

[VBOY9977]

Jill and Derick posted a new q + a.

Shoutout to the person who did this recap on Reddit because I’m too lazy to watch

Spoiler

 

[FiveAcres]

51 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Jill and Derick posted a new q + a.

Shoutout to the person who did this recap on Reddit because I’m too lazy to watch

  Hide contents

 

At the risk of sounding like a humper, that's actually a lot more nuanced than I would have expected. 

[lexiloumarie]

51 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Jill and Derick posted a new q + a.

Shoutout to the person who did this recap on Reddit because I’m too lazy to watch

  Hide contents

 

Wow. Never expected to see actual confirmation. Need to watch this. 

[OrchidBlossom]

55 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Jill and Derick posted a new q + a.

Shoutout to the person who did this recap on Reddit because I’m too lazy to watch

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They use non hormonal birth control, Jill is worried hormonal birth control could cause an abortion, but she also said birth control could have uses. Jill said homosexuality is a sin, but Derrick did say he would use whatever pronouns he was asked to use for a trans person, which is theoretically a good step. They said they have LGBTQ friends and non Christian friends, I'm not sure how much I buy that but anything is possible.  They said they believed in being respectful when they debate and being mindful of where and how they talk about those topics which is also at least theoretically if they actually practice that a step in the right direction for them. It seems like maybe law school has actually been good for Derrick, since this is where I imagine these issues came up (I had already been fooled by Big Socialism by law school so I had learned about these topics, but I know for many around me, it was the first time they had some of these conversations). They also discussed budgeting and how they paid for law school.
I will say I thought the way Derrick discussed budgeting for law school was actually a good indicator that he probably does respect her voice and encourage it. Everything he said he did in law school or in making decisions was "we". "We looked for scholarships" and "we purposed to do this". I'm glad for her on that front.

I hope this is the beginning of their journey toward a more accepting worldview, not the end of it. For where she came from I think it is a stark contrast, but obviously they do have some ways to go. 

 

Oh I nearly forgot! They called in a lawyer against her family. Now that I want more details on.

Edited September 30, 2020 by OrchidBlossom
juicy lawyer goss

[twoandthrough]

6 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Oh I nearly forgot! They called in a lawyer against her family. Now that I want more details on.

Was the lawyer against the Duggar family or against TLC? I am curious to know more about that as well. 

[OrchidBlossom]

Just now, twoandthrough said:

Was the lawyer against the Duggar family or against TLC? I am curious to know more about that as well. 

I'm guessing it had to be against JB, since if I recall he was the one who was paid on behalf of his children on the show. So there wouldn't really be much to do against TLC, they paid someone. Who gets what of that money is between the Duggs.

[hand holder]

I can't believe my ears, BIRTH CONTROL!!??

I'm hoping against all hope that non-hormonal birth control means condoms and NOT NFP. (Nothing wrong with NFP if they are using it, but it wouldn't be a real step away from her indoctrination)

[Nishi621]

https://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-reveals-she-uses-birth-control/

 

 

Never thought I'd see this

[CarrotCake]

1 minute ago, hand holder said:

I can't believe my ears, BIRTH CONTROL!!??

I'm hoping against all hope that non-hormonal birth control means condoms and NOT NFP. (Nothing wrong with NFP if they are using it, but it wouldn't be a real step away from her indoctrination)

I don't know how she phrased it but NFP would not really count as 'using birth control' for me.

It is a way of family planning but not really 'using' anything.

[Kelsey]

Wow....Im actually very surprised with how far they've come. Hopefully they continue on this journey of growth and inspire some of her siblings and stray fundies to re-evaluate their beliefs 

[Four is Enough]

5 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

@Four is Enough would you be quoting Peggy Sue got married?? I watched it for the first time ages the other week! Do love the film!

I was looking for the photo of Nicholas Cage in his gold lame tuxedo jacket. Did you notice a Young Jim Carrey in the band?

Spoiler

 

[candygirl200413]

Don't most use NFP?? Or what we can assume among fundies if there is spacing?