Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

[socalrules]

I think Jill was the perfect fundy daughter, did as she was told, raised her siblings and was likely the tattletale when any of them stepped out of line or showed an ounce of independent thought. Let’s not forget her need to clarify Jinger’s statement she wanted to live in the city and turn it into live near a Walmart. She turned what Jinger wanted into what Jill thought it should be.  I think it’s great Jill is showing growth but if her siblings are upset with her, it may have more to do with the way she treated them as children rather than her lifestyle now. It is hard to let that type of thing go as an adult, especially living in family that blanket trains babies. Who knows how those kids were punished. I am just not sure everything is about Jill’s current lifestyle. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I  heard someone say, "Once you're woke, it's hard to go back to sleep." Can't remember who said it. Do we consider Jill "woke" at moment? If she had married a Chad Paine or Chris Maxwell type...would she be who she is today? Did we start to dislike Derick before or after the Jazz incident? He has alot to do with Jill's positive transition. The fact that she admits to seeing a therapist is very brave. This might have JB and Michelle questioning their parenting if a kid needs a therapist as an adult. Well so far Josh is the only one whose committed a crime that was NOT handled properly. I feel bad for him because he will always the Duggar that screwed up. I hope they don't treat Jill as another screw up. Because she's not.

I wouldn't say Jill is "woke" in the sense that she's a social justice warrior fighting for EVERYONE to have equal rights. I think she's waking up, with potential to be woke at some point in her life.

[Kayleigh83]

30 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I think Jill was the perfect fundy daughter, did as she was told, raised her siblings and was likely the tattletale when any of them stepped out of line or showed an ounce of independent thought. Let’s not forget her need to clarify Jinger’s statement she wanted to live in the city and turn it into live near a Walmart. She turned what Jinger wanted into what Jill thought it should be.  I think it’s great Jill is showing growth but if her siblings are upset with her, it may have more to do with the way she treated them as children rather than her lifestyle now. It is hard to let that type of thing go as an adult, especially living in family that blanket trains babies. Who knows how those kids were punished. I am just not sure everything is about Jill’s current lifestyle. 

See to me, this doesn’t make sense. If any of her siblings are where she is in terms of wanting to break free from the hive mind, I think they’d be likely to be forgiving of Jill and understanding the mental manipulation from their parents and the cult they lived in that would have caused Jill to try to enforce the rules before her mind was opened more. They would have lived in the same culture. And conversely, if they are entirely bought into the Duggar way of life, I think the thing they would be upset or annoyed with her about now is that she ISN’T still enforcing “the rules” like she used to and has strayed. But a mix of the two just doesn’t add up for me.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Kayleigh83

[wendy-sparkles]

Jill just posted pics of Jessa and her kids at Jill's house, so presumably Jessa can't be that worried. I did think in the video when Jill said some/one of her siblings said as long as they made the decisions together (if i'm remembering correctly) that did sound like something Ben would say, so maybe that was Jessa's response.

[becky_m2001]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

JIll converted to Southern Baptist.

According to her most recent Sunday stories they still go to Cross Church. And the Cross Church IG always reposts her Sunday stories when she tags them. Is Cross Church Southern Baptist?

[Melissa1977]

37 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I wouldn't say Jill is "woke" in the sense that she's a social justice warrior fighting for EVERYONE to have equal rights. I think she's waking up, with potential to be woke at some point in her life.

If she realises how abusive Michelle and JB parenting was and how damaging quiverful movement is, yes she's woke. No need to be a social justice warrior, many of us aren't (it would be great if we all were, but wake people are mostly ordinary people).

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

If she realises how abusive Michelle and JB parenting was and how damaging quiverful movement is, yes she's woke. No need to be a social justice warrior, many of us aren't (it would be great if we all were, but wake people are mostly ordinary people).

"Woke" is termed by the social justice warrior group and Jill isn't woke if she doesn't support those causes and keeps many of her old beliefs around. 

[JDuggs]

4 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

Jill just posted pics of Jessa and her kids at Jill's house, so presumably Jessa can't be that worried. I did think in the video when Jill said some/one of her siblings said as long as they made the decisions together (if i'm remembering correctly) that did sound like something Ben would say, so maybe that was Jessa's response.

I think this is absolutely a signal from Jill and Jessa that Jessa is one of the more accepting siblings. I’m kind of surprised that Jessa is “going public” and actually being supportive.

Currently, social media seems to be the “career” for the Duggar girls. They can show their lives in a carefully curated way. Joy seems very happy to display her relationships with Abbie and Carlin, but not so much with Jill. Either they don’t spend much time together or they are purposefully choosing not to display their relationship. Jill was with Joy when she birthed Annabel so I would think that was Joy’s choice to have Jill there at such a difficult time. But I think something has changed in their relationship since then.

[AussieKrissy]

5 hours ago, Bobology said:

Not all that long ago, 2020 at least and possibly just 3-4 months ago, someone, maybe Jill, had a post about enjoying some time with James and in one of the pics, at a separate table off a ways, were Jana and another sibling or two. It made me think that even James, who had to be 18 already, had to have a chaperone in order to hang out with Jill. Yet Justin is (possibly) living out of state near his almost fiancé at the ripe ol' age of 17.

To agree with @wendy-sparkles, it would be much more difficult to limit James' exposure to Jill than it would be the 4 youngest girls. Maybe Jennifer was at the table with Jill and James (or whoever, sorry I can't remember exactly) and that is why Jana was there sitting at another table.

Now I'm editing a 2nd time... I glanced through Jill's IG posts, at the lead pic only, looking for said photo I mentioned and I couldn't find it. Does anyone else remember this photo/post? I wanted to link it here.

I remember the photo. I do doubt any “child” including James would be allowed to visit (any more) Jill without a chaperone. Far cry from when she used to have them over when first married. It breaks my heart for Jenni who I see takes every opportunity to go to Jill even if it means her “other mother” mechelle has to be there too. 

[nst]

did anyone do a drinking game while listening to jill in her newest video. I think she said the word like every second. 

[Captain Obvious]

23 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Derricks an ass, but I am happy he is living Josh’s dream- law school, more freedom, 2 kids. Kick rocks, Josh. 

Yeah, I don't think that's Josh's dream. 

Josh's dream is to ditch his family and move into the Playboy mansion, be handed a wad of cash without ever having to work or study, and be given a lifetime supply of Chick-Fil-A - all while being promoted as the Ultimate Fundie Family Hero.

[DalmatianCat]

5 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

Jill just posted pics of Jessa and her kids at Jill's house, so presumably Jessa can't be that worried. I did think in the video when Jill said some/one of her siblings said as long as they made the decisions together (if i'm remembering correctly) that did sound like something Ben would say, so maybe that was Jessa's response.

Considering that Jessa, Jinger, and Joy all have sisters-in-law (referring to Austin’s half-siblings) who live differently than they do and still seem to love them, I’m sure they’re all fine with Jill. (Wasn’t Jessa in Ben’s sister’s wedding last year? And Jinger seems to enjoy the times she gets together with Jeremy’s siblings). They might not be super close, but I can’t see the three of them doing any hand-wringing over Jill.

[Grace]

6 hours ago, becky_m2001 said:

According to her most recent Sunday stories they still go to Cross Church. And the Cross Church IG always reposts her Sunday stories when she tags them. Is Cross Church Southern Baptist?

Yes. The head pastor is the President of the Southern Baptist Convention. They are MEGA Southern Baptist over there.

Here's a funny story. They do fireworks at that location every 4th of July and a few years ago some smart person thought it would be a great finale if some of the fireworks lit up the 3 enormous crosses out back of the building.......it was NOT a great finale....

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Grace

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, nst said:

did anyone do a drinking game while listening to jill in her newest video. I think she said the word like every second. 

It was sad, yet when DD spoke, he was fully coherent and articulate. You sure can tell a confident, comfortable, educated speaker vs an uncomfortable speaker. 

[Grace]

16 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

It was sad, yet when DD spoke, he was fully coherent and articulate. You sure can tell a confident, comfortable, educated speaker vs an uncomfortable speaker. 

I don't think it's sad at all. It's just a filler word that people use when they're nervous. It could easily have been 'ummm' or 'you know' etc. I don't try to do even short videos on social media because I'm sure I'd sound like an idiot ? I'm sure Derek has to do a lot of presenting in class so he's got more recent practice with speaking to an audience.

If you look back at Jill's early attempts at social media posts some were pretty bad and awkward so she has really grown in her competence level along the way in general. I think she will get better at this as well. If I knew her I'd encourage her to write out her answers in advance and maybe just do a lot of takes to get it smoother. But they are busy parents of two little kids so maybe they don't have the time for that. At least it shows that she is being real with her answers I guess.

[RosyDaisy]

7 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

Jill just posted pics of Jessa and her kids at Jill's house, so presumably Jessa can't be that worried. I did think in the video when Jill said some/one of her siblings said as long as they made the decisions together (if i'm remembering correctly) that did sound like something Ben would say, so maybe that was Jessa's response.

Jessa could be there to "encourage" Jill to repent and come back into the fold.  IMO, I think that's what probably happens when any of the married siblings visit or hang out with Jill.  They try to lure her back into the fold.

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, Grace said:

I don't think it's sad at all. It's just a filler word that people use when they're nervous. It could easily have been 'ummm' or 'you know' etc. I don't try to do even short videos on social media because I'm sure I'd sound like an idiot ? I'm sure Derek has to do a lot of presenting in class so he's got more recent practice with speaking to an audience.

If you look back at Jill's early attempts at social media posts some were pretty bad and awkward so she has really grown in her competence level along the way in general. I think she will get better at this as well. If I knew her I'd encourage her to write out her answers in advance and maybe just do a lot of takes to get it smoother. But they are busy parents of two little kids so maybe they don't have the time for that. At least it shows that she is being real with her answers I guess.

Agree to disagree. It was painful for me to listen to. She is a 29 YO woman whose parents created a dependent, uneducated person, and unleashed her into a world that is neither gentle nor kind. What JB and M did to these people, in terms of real world functionality is criminal, IMO.  Go Jill, I wish her every luck, success and hapinesss along the way. 

[wendy-sparkles]

even though filler words can be annoying, and clearly Jill was using them very liberally (probably due to struggling with the content matter - we know she doesn't always use them to this extent) they've been found to aid listener comprehension and recall. It can be difficult to listen to speech with all the fillers removed, and they serve several crucial linguistic functions.

wiki: 

Quote

While there are many different reasons for using filler words, sociolinguists have identified six main reasons for doing so: pausing to give time for the speaker to gather their thoughts, speaking more indirectly in order to encourage politeness, approaching delicate topics gently, emphasizing ideas, providing clues to emotions or behaviors, and communicating uncertainty

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Considering that Jessa, Jinger, and Joy all have sisters-in-law (referring to Austin’s half-siblings) who live differently than they do and still seem to love them, I’m sure they’re all fine with Jill. (Wasn’t Jessa in Ben’s sister’s wedding last year? And Jinger seems to enjoy the times she gets together with Jeremy’s siblings). They might not be super close, but I can’t see the three of them doing any hand-wringing over Jill.

Are we sure Austin's siblings aren't fundie? I think they're all fundie. 

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Agree to disagree. It was painful for me to listen to. She is a 29 YO woman whose parents created a dependent, uneducated person, and unleashed her into a world that is neither gentle nor kind. What JB and M did to these people, in terms of real world functionality is criminal, IMO.  Go Jill, I wish her every luck, success and hapinesss along the way. 

She was talking about very personal issues, that also involved how she makes decisions that go against her family’s beliefs. A family that she is having some obvious tension with, but still loves and spends time with. And talking about how some relationships are more strained than others. If she is stumbling or pausing and using filler words It has zero to do with her education level and everything to do with being human.

If she gave a smoothly rehearsed and perfectly confident Q & A I’d be concerned she was just going reactionary in the other direction, or reading a practiced script that had no real meaning to her. 

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Jessa could be there to "encourage" Jill to repent and come back into the fold.  IMO, I think that's what probably happens when any of the married siblings visit or hang out with Jill.  They try to lure her back into the fold.

If it was true, why did Jessa took Spurgeon with her? He is going to be exposed to the fun stories Izzy is telling about the school.

The fact that they let the kids play together means that they are ok with each other way of life. It's not that Jill has came a leftist atheist... 

[just_ordinary]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:39 PM, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I wonder if Jill and Josiah are closer than publicly portrayed. I can see him and Lauren being completely over the extreme fundie BS...and reaching out to Jill for advice.

I believe Bella’s crib was a loan from Jill, they’ve been to the Dillards’ for a couple game nights, and Lauren asked Jill to be with her during her labor.  I think it would be great if they are forging a relationship independent of the family collective.

That would be great for them. Josiah seemed really miserable for a very long time. Seeing that you can make other choices and become happier might help. And Lauren would definitely go happily along with him in my opinion. My guess is that they are still too dependent on JB though.
 

The biggest thing for me is that Jill seems to realise she can have her own opinion and make her own decisions. Following along or submitting to your headship isn’t exactly growth even if you wear pants, wear a nose ring and don’t blanket train. Discussing a topic like parenting as partners is different and in other topics whatever your partner thinks should take a backseat in day to day life (I get wanting to look good for someone but in normal life I just wear what I want without second thought). Reflecting on your own upbringing and identifying what you think was good and what you would like to do differently is also a hard thing to do. Especially coming from an environment where your parents take on a God like role and are not to be questioned. That is why I am getting more convinced of Jills development. Not blanket training is the most fantastic step for me. I would love to know if she started on Izzy and got told off, or if she realised she just couldn’t or if that is a recent realisation thanks to therapy. I don’t think anyone has a right to know about their reproductive choices. That’s actually pretty creepy. They said they would leave the number up to God- which they very well might be. JB and Michelle did everything they could, to have as many as they could. That’s pretty different then just doing it when you are up for it and see what happens. With two active boys I am not surprised if it just hasn’t happened yet. There doesn’t have to be a reason. And when she stays away from the Pearl’s and her parents training methods she might be more exhausted - because she is more invested and was probably shocked how exhausting children are that are not beat into being robots. And not having sister mums means a lot of sleepless nights and hard days well into school age.
 

The sibling question is interesting. My guess is that everyone at home is not too happy and very vocal about it. Michelle and JB will probably double down on them to protect their authority and I can see them pushing the live-in children to be godly examples and try to talk her back. Jana will do it probably from her own opinion. She must defend her mindset otherwise she would probably have a break down about her own situation.

Jessa is the poster child for the show at the moment. Her changes were smaller and not as public or drastic. She probably doesn’t like some of Jill’s changes but I don’t think she is constantly preaching about it. In the end- Jill’s fall was her big step up. 

I don’t think JD and her are close at all and I think he doesn’t care enough about her to let her know what he thinks. 

I doubt Jinger has realised that Jill is much freer than she. She has the good looking, intellectual husband, lives in LA and they are looking forward to be super popular. Or so. Not sure if the penny ever drops. I don’t think she has any problem with their choices per she but with the open criticism of the family. 

Joe and Kendra are probably against the changes but I don’t see them voicing that more than a few times (Joe) and then just having less contact but remain friendly. I just cannot see them in a loud fight.

Josiah and Lauren are probably secretly super cool with it and would follow suit if they weren’t dependent on JB. 

Joy is a wild card for me. I would like to believe that she is totally ok with it. She and Austin seem to have found their rhythm and with them being off the show a lot it’s hard to say what they really do in their day to day life. 
 

Josh is dying inside from jealousy. Not that he would ever admit than. Not sure if he is self aware enough to be quiet about the things the sisters he molested do. But Anna is probably super preachy. Just like Jana, because otherwise they would look at their own life and actions in real horror.

In conclusion- I guess the most pressure and criticism comes from the Duggar headquarter. 

[Lemchop]

Please don’t interpret this as praise or an excuse for the Duggars’ inadequate education, but saying “like” or “um” excessively in public speaking settings isn’t a symptom of poor education to me. I had to do countless presentations in school and currently have a communication-heavy job (inpatient psychiatry) and I still can’t fathom the thought of public speaking without getting cold sweats and feeling nauseous.

I straight up don’t remember my thesis defense, though my advisor says I appeared conscious for it lol. It takes days and days of rehearsing each presentation to train myself out of using filler words. Even now, when I use the voice-message feature on my phone and play the message back to myself, it’s riddled with “umms” that I don’t remember saying, because the small aspect of performance heightens my anxiety. If I knew thousands of people would watch a video of me I definitely wouldn’t be able to make myself sound intelligent or even coherent, especially given the novel/potentially uncomfortable subject matter.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

That would be great for them. Josiah seemed really miserable for a very long time. Seeing that you can make other choices and become happier might help. And Lauren would definitely go happily along with him in my opinion. My guess is that they are still too dependent on JB though.
 

The biggest thing for me is that Jill seems to realise she can have her own opinion and make her own decisions. Following along or submitting to your headship isn’t exactly growth even if you wear pants, wear a nose ring and don’t blanket train. Discussing a topic like parenting as partners is different and in other topics whatever your partner thinks should take a backseat in day to day life (I get wanting to look good for someone but in normal life I just wear what I want without second thought). Reflecting on your own upbringing and identifying what you think was good and what you would like to do differently is also a hard thing to do. Especially coming from an environment where your parents take on a God like role and are not to be questioned. That is why I am getting more convinced of Jills development. Not blanket training is the most fantastic step for me. I would love to know if she started on Izzy and got told off, or if she realised she just couldn’t or if that is a recent realisation thanks to therapy. I don’t think anyone has a right to know about their reproductive choices. That’s actually pretty creepy. They said they would leave the number up to God- which they very well might be. JB and Michelle did everything they could, to have as many as they could. That’s pretty different then just doing it when you are up for it and see what happens. With two active boys I am not surprised if it just hasn’t happened yet. There doesn’t have to be a reason. And when she stays away from the Pearl’s and her parents training methods she might be more exhausted - because she is more invested and was probably shocked how exhausting children are that are not beat into being robots. And not having sister mums means a lot of sleepless nights and hard days well into school age.
 

The sibling question is interesting. My guess is that everyone at home is not too happy and very vocal about it. Michelle and JB will probably double down on them to protect their authority and I can see them pushing the live-in children to be godly examples and try to talk her back. Jana will do it probably from her own opinion. She must defend her mindset otherwise she would probably have a break down about her own situation.

Jessa is the poster child for the show at the moment. Her changes were smaller and not as public or drastic. She probably doesn’t like some of Jill’s changes but I don’t think she is constantly preaching about it. In the end- Jill’s fall was her big step up. 

I don’t think JD and her are close at all and I think he doesn’t care enough about her to let her know what he thinks. 

I doubt Jinger has realised that Jill is much freer than she. She has the good looking, intellectual husband, lives in LA and they are looking forward to be super popular. Or so. Not sure if the penny ever drops. I don’t think she has any problem with their choices per she but with the open criticism of the family. 

Joe and Kendra are probably against the changes but I don’t see them voicing that more than a few times (Joe) and then just having less contact but remain friendly. I just cannot see them in a loud fight.

Josiah and Lauren are probably secretly super cool with it and would follow suit if they weren’t dependent on JB. 

Joy is a wild card for me. I would like to believe that she is totally ok with it. She and Austin seem to have found their rhythm and with them being off the show a lot it’s hard to say what they really do in their day to day life. 
 

Josh is dying inside from jealousy. Not that he would ever admit than. Not sure if he is self aware enough to be quiet about the things the sisters he molested do. But Anna is probably super preachy. Just like Jana, because otherwise they would look at their own life and actions in real horror.

In conclusion- I guess the most pressure and criticism comes from the Duggar headquarter. 

Jill started training her boys. There were several pictures early on where the boys arms were restricted so they couldn't use them. It seemed to be some sort of training. 

As for sex, I agree with no one has the right to demand information about their choices although Jill and Derick have volunteered information about their love lives in the past and they have a right to share what they feel comfortable with.

I'm a little uncomfortable with your speculation that they are leaving it up to God and just aren't having kids. It's a harmful fantasy to teach young people that you can have intimacy and you magically won't get pregnant. A lot of "mainstream" conservatives have been sold this fairytale only to be surprised that magic thinking didn't work and they're pregnant. Sex ed 101: If you're having unprotected sex, expect to get pregnant usually within 6 months if not sooner. If you're not pregnant after a year, that's infertility.  Thinking it will take a while and we just got married or we can't get pregnant because we have two active children doesn't actually work out that way. 

As for Joy, she and Austin are as fundie as they come. I don't think she'll fight with Jill, but they will slowly grow apart. 

 

[Italiangirl]

@just_ordinary I agree with your analysis of the siblings except for Josiah and Lauren that are a wild card for me, I'm not sure of Josiah more than Lauren, I can't see him be very vocal about Jill's changes but neither could I see him all cool with it. I think Joy doesn't care much of the exterior changes like the pants, nose ring, and shorter hair, she has a couple of similar changes too, the church part could be harder, do we know where she and Austin go to church? 

Josh is definitely envious/jealous of Jill right now but at the same time, I think he isn't really aware of it and keeps his mouth shut.