Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

[RosyDaisy]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

If it was true, why did Jessa took Spurgeon with her? He is going to be exposed to the fun stories Izzy is telling about the school.

The fact that they let the kids play together means that they are ok with each other way of life. It's not that Jill has came a leftist atheist... 

I think it's more like showing Jill what her kids are missing by not being near their family.  But you do have a point.

[VineHeart137]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

If it was true, why did Jessa took Spurgeon with her? He is going to be exposed to the fun stories Izzy is telling about the school.

The fact that they let the kids play together means that they are ok with each other way of life. It's not that Jill has came a leftist atheist... 

It doesn't look like Izzy was there. He wasn't in any of her pictures. He was most likely at school.

But I do get the vibe that Jessa is more likely being supportive and accepting of Jill, at least at this time. Just the timing, Jill mentioning that some of her family members are supportive of her life choices and some aren't, and then shortly after having a visit with Jessa could be her way of trying to show that Jessa is one of the accepting siblings. It also appears that Jessa wore pants to this visit. Not a huge thing, but before this I don't think we've seen Jessa in pants outside of her own house (correct me if I'm wrong) so that could definitely have been a small gesture to show Jill that she (Jessa) isn't judging her.

[HermioneSparrow]

As much as I dislike Jessa she has been the one sibling that visits and hangs out with Jill, asks her to be in her births (Ivy's). In my opinion, the one she's closest to since the "fallout". I never thought she was the judgemental sibling. I can see the boys being the judgemental ones (with the exceptions of Josiah and James who still seems very close to her).

[Snarkasarus Rex]

I think Jessa disapproves of Jill’s changes but still wants to have a relationship with her.  

Her visit was definitely all ‘Look! I’m not the judgemental one!’, tho. She wants people to know she’s toeing the Duggar line but also not shunning her sister.

I do wonder if she will limit Spurge’s time with Izzy, especially as they get older. Since Izzy wasn’t in the pictures, her latest visit was most likely was while he was at school.

 

 

 

[seraaa]

18 hours ago, indianabones said:

I wish Jill would elaborate more on whether she and Derick are preventing pregnancy (I mean, they obviously are) beyond repeating that they're leaving the amount of kids they have "up to the Lord".

I wonder if this is harder to talk about publicly than drinking alcohol? No idea, but given how important having children and not preventing is to the family system in which she grew up, I wonder. 

[clueliss]

in reference to the Is Cross Church SBC question - a bit of google and:

https://www.crosschurch.com/partnerships/

Yes - they also list "Partnerships" with organizations like theological seminaries. 

[Melissa1977]

19 hours ago, indianabones said:

I wish Jill would elaborate more on whether she and Derick are preventing pregnancy (I mean, they obviously are) beyond repeating that they're leaving the amount of kids they have "up to the Lord".

Well, looks that the Lord does not want her to have a big family. The reason behind God giving 19 kids to some parents and just 2 o none to others, is beyond my comprehension. But I'm not fundie, so what do I know?

She may be suffering fertility issues and decide not to overcome a medical procedure or treatment to solve them. Then, if a baby eventually comes, it will be a miracle.

But she may also be hypocrite like Braggie and use birth control, saying it's still "up to God" because God can make BC to fail.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I know we like to speculate here.  I've done it too.  Sometimes, though, it becomes too much.   Maybe because I'm also from a big family.  So here it is: short of a J-Kid sitting down and saying to the camera, "I don't really approve of J-Sibling's choices", or writing a blog post expressing such, we can in no way know how they feel.

[Idlewild]

Jessa could be there for damage control purposes - I’m sure she knows people are speculating who are the disapproving siblings. My gut instinct is she isn’t that bothered unless it affects the show or her SM status- she clearly makes her living from both. I go with Jana, Joe and Anna as the unsupportive ones.

[Mama Mia]

47 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

I know we like to speculate here.  I've done it too.  Sometimes, though, it becomes too much.   Maybe because I'm also from a big family.  So here it is: short of a J-Kid sitting down and saying to the camera, "I don't really approve of J-Sibling's choices", or writing a blog post expressing such, we can in no way know how they feel.

Yea, I think we also need to remember there’s a ton of factors that go into how close adult siblings are. It’s not just philosophical beliefs, it’s personality, age difference, proximity, life-stage (kids, spouse, etc), interests - a whole big complex combination of things. And disapproving of choices doesn’t necessarily mean shunning. Of course they have the complication of being in an extremist cult and living life in public, but still - SO many factors.

The two adult kids I see as unlikely to hang out have nothing to do with beliefs - but I can’t see Jinger and Joy having much fun together - just because they seem to enjoy completely different things. 

It always surprises me that people say Jana has the most restricted / kool aid drinking life. While she certainly seems like a pretty rigid personality and devout, and devoted to her parents - she has so far made the bold choice to not get married. She travels frequently with her pants wearing best friend, and often states that there is more to life than having a man. She is starting a business and seems to spend more time gardening and home rehabbing than watching kids. Yes, she’s mostly in skirts and lives with her parents, but seems to have a lot of freedom within that. 

[Satan'sFortress]

Anecdotally,  one of my kids says "like" all the time. It does make me kind of stabby. He's in college, is very smart,  well read, and a good writer, too. It seems to be a habit that he can't break.  

[OrchidBlossom]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

 

It always surprises me that people say Jana has the most restricted / kool aid drinking life. While she certainly seems like a pretty rigid personality and devout, and devoted to her parents - she has so far made the bold choice to not get married. She travels frequently with her pants wearing best friend, and often states that there is more to life than having a man. She is starting a business and seems to spend more time gardening and home rehabbing than watching kids. Yes, she’s mostly in skirts and lives with her parents, but seems to have a lot of freedom within that. 

I think you're right about us not speculating too much without considering that some siblings probably just don't have a lot in common. To be fair I spend a good deal of time with my siblings even though we don't have a ton of interests/hobbies in common, because we are close anyway and enjoy each other's company. But I also know plenty of adult siblings who although they have kind and warm feelings for their siblings, just aren't close and are happy with that dynamic. Nothing wrong with it. 

But as far as Jana, I wonder how much of this is for the show. We know she often travels with JB or another chaperone when she's with Lauren, so it isn't as though they jet off to Miami in their spare time like your average 30 year old friends might do. Some ex IFB FJers have said Jana would be seen as a "cautionary tale" to younger fundies. But they can't exactly portray that, can they? So on camera, they make her seem like miss comparatively independent, don't need a man, happy with her projects. What is it like when she is off camera? I don't know, I hope it truly is her choice and she is happy and free, but I also can't help but doubt that given what we know about their lifestyles, their religion, and their attitudes toward women.

[Duggadict]

13 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Are we sure Austin's siblings aren't fundie? I think they're all fundie. 

His sister is fundie. His half siblings are not or actually were not according to his dad the last time I visited fort rock in my infatuation time with the lifestyle (5 years ago? I think) 

[baldricks_turnip]

As speculated, the photos of Jessa's visits to Jill might be Jill signalling to the public Jessa is non-judgemental, or Jess signalling the same to the public. But there's a third possibility, which is that the public was an afterthought and it was about Jessa trying to show her love to her sister. If it was my sibling who made a public video talking about dealing with family disapproval, I'd want to show my love. But these are Duggars, and some of them are emotional fuckwits, so who knows...

[Tatar-tot]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Well, looks that the Lord does not want her to have a big family. The reason behind God giving 19 kids to some parents and just 2 o none to others, is beyond my comprehension. But I'm not fundie, so what do I know?

She may be suffering fertility issues and decide not to overcome a medical procedure or treatment to solve them. Then, if a baby eventually comes, it will be a miracle.

But she may also be hypocrite like Braggie and use birth control, saying it's still "up to God" because God can make BC to fail.

You know what - it is between Derrick & Jill.  Her entire childhood was a money making scheme for her parents. I am glad she and Derrick have elected to not explain their choices to the public. 

One more thing - I bet dollars to doughnuts Felicity ends up in a Christian day school.  I do not see Jeremy excited about Jessa homeschooling her. 

[SassyPants]

55 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

You know what - it is between Derrick & Jill.  Her entire childhood was a money making scheme for her parents. I am glad she and Derrick have elected to not explain their choices to the public. 

One more thing - I bet dollars to doughnuts Felicity ends up in a Christian day school.  I do not see Jeremy excited about Jessa homeschooling her. 

I think the Vuolos will send their kids to school, but I don’t think Jeremy is nearly as bright as Derick. I think the intellect gap between Jeremy and Jinger is likely not as great as that between Derick and Jill. This is not a knock on Jill at all. Derick, while possibly lacking in people skills, is head and shoulders more intelligent and well rounded, than your average Duggar. Jeremy probably has better people skills, but is of a more average intellect.

Derick knows the Duggars lack a basic education. I’m not sure Jeremy knows that, or even cares. He’s more into the frivolous: hair, body, clothing-

[mpheels]

At this point, I think it is also possible that Jill and Derick might use a more effective form of birth control if a doctor told them it was unsafe for Jill to become pregnant and/or deliver a child. I can see both of them interpreting that information as a sign from God that they should not have another child at this time, and preventing pregnancy in that context is consistent  with “leaving it up to God “. 

[Expectopatronus]

1 hour ago, Tatar-tot said:

You know what - it is between Derrick & Jill.  Her entire childhood was a money making scheme for her parents. I am glad she and Derrick have elected to not explain their choices to the public. 

One more thing - I bet dollars to doughnuts Felicity ends up in a Christian day school.  I do not see Jeremy excited about Jessa homeschooling her. 

You are 100% right; none of the kids owe anyone any explanation/information regarding any part of their lives. Their parents chose to make the family public figures and none of the kids had any voice in this. Although I’m not in any way excusing Josh, it was his parents’ decision to push the family into the spot light that lead to his offenses being made public. Unfortunately, in every school where I have taught, there have been families receiving support due to sibling abuse. It never hits the media because a) it’s illegal to release the names of minors who offend, b) it’s illegal to make public information that clearly identifies minors who have been victimized and c) nobody has a hot clue who these families are since they live private lives. The girls absolutely had the right to expect that their abuse would be kept confidential and their parents’ desire for fame contributed to this expectation being violated. Good for Jill for setting boundaries regarding what she will and will not share. 

[RosyDaisy]

21 minutes ago, mpheels said:

interpreting that information as a sign from God that they should not have another child at this time

This is what my mother said after she had my sister.  Her doctor told her that another pregnancy could kill her.  She took that as a sign from God and had her tubes tied during her c-section delivery of my sister.

[patsymae]

On 9/16/2020 at 8:38 PM, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I could certainly see Josh being one to drink in his car before going inside.  I'm obviously doing some imagineering of his life here but I don't get the impression he has the life he wanted at all.  It wouldn't surprise me if he self-medicates or did at one time since antidepressants and real therapy are taboo, too.

Jinger and Jeremy probably drink a little wine now and then.  I think the picture someone was previously referring to was actually a bottle of sparkling grape juice.

Jeremy is likely in a pickle. It's really hard to pose as a fine dining snob if you're ordering a coke instead of a bottle of good wine with a $200 dinner. But if you drink the wine you might be offending some of the higher-up people who make decisions about who is going to get the prestigious church assignments. Oh, whatever to do?

[Bobology]

On 9/24/2020 at 1:47 PM, Bobology said:

Not all that long ago, 2020 at least and possibly just 3-4 months ago, someone, maybe Jill, had a post about enjoying some time with James and in one of the pics, at a separate table off a ways, were Jana and another sibling or two. It made me think that even James, who had to be 18 already, had to have a chaperone in order to hang out with Jill. Yet Justin is (possibly) living out of state near his almost fiancé at the ripe ol' age of 17.

To agree with @wendy-sparkles, it would be much more difficult to limit James' exposure to Jill than it would be the 4 youngest girls. Maybe Jennifer was at the table with Jill and James (or whoever, sorry I can't remember exactly) and that is why Jana was there sitting at another table.

Now I'm editing a 2nd time... I glanced through Jill's IG posts, at the lead pic only, looking for said photo I mentioned and I couldn't find it. Does anyone else remember this photo/post? I wanted to link it here.

I found Jill's post in question, which Instagram says was approximately 11 weeks ago. Covid seating at the restaurant (there's a sign on the table between where Jill is supposedly sitting and where Jana and a couple of the older howlers are seated) and there were others there for breakfast followed by mini-golf. So I do not believe James was being chaperoned. It was likely organized and Jill/family were invited. None of the pics in Jill's post showed JB or Michelle or any minor Duggars. If you care to look, about 11 weeks ago, the thumbnail was a pic of Israel standing with a mini-golf hole in the background.

[Perrierwithlemon]

Thanks for the description, @Bobology! Here's the link for future reference:

 

 

[princessmahina]

2 hours ago, patsymae said:

Jeremy is likely in a pickle. It's really hard to pose as a fine dining snob if you're ordering a coke instead of a bottle of good wine with a $200 dinner. But if you drink the wine you might be offending some of the higher-up people who make decisions about who is going to get the prestigious church assignments. Oh, whatever to do?

Sparkling water? It’s non-alcoholic so it’s fundie approved but it’s fAnCy so it’s Jeremy approved. 

[Vivi_music]

15 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think Jessa disapproves of Jill’s changes but still wants to have a relationship with her.  

Her visit was definitely all ‘Look! I’m not the judgemental one!’, tho. She wants people to know she’s toeing the Duggar line but also not shunning her sister.

I do wonder if she will limit Spurge’s time with Izzy, especially as they get older. Since Izzy wasn’t in the pictures, her latest visit was most likely was while he was at school.

I hope that would be it. Like many others have said, we have no idea as to the real reason of the visit and we'll probably never know. But I would hope that deep down, it was because Jessa wanted too, and not because she was doing damage control, or for show.

I think it is possible if both siblings are mature enough, to keep a relationship even if you disagree with life choices. I know my aunt and my mom had a period in their life when they fought a lot, about life choices, about different opinions they had on certain things - relationship, raising kids, etc. They did have affection for one another though, and decided to put aside these differences and purposely have a relationship. My mom said that the fighting was so bad, that at one point she's the one who thought ''Wow, this might end our relationship and I don't want that''. So they had a big talk and in the end my mom said they ''chose one another''. Meaning they chose to keep a relationship, while accepting each other's life choices, and accepting to disagree but not judge.

I think it takes a certain emotional maturity to really express that verbally. Sadly I don't know if any Duggars would be able to voice it like my mom did. I think most of them are emotionally stunted and have never been thought to be in contact wiht ther true emotions. But maybe it is something unspoken. Maybe Jessa unconsciously decided to maintain a relationship with Jill even if they disagree on a lot of issues. That would be out of a certain affection I suppose. At least in my eyes, if Jessa wants Jill to assist her during very vulnerable and difficult moments (labour and giving birth), that means she felt a good level of safety and comfort having her sister by her side. Safety and comfort are part of wanting a person in your life and enjoying their presence for sure.

[just_ordinary]

21 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Jill started training her boys. There were several pictures early on where the boys arms were restricted so they couldn't use them. It seemed to be some sort of training. 

As for sex, I agree with no one has the right to demand information about their choices although Jill and Derick have volunteered information about their love lives in the past and they have a right to share what they feel comfortable with.

I'm a little uncomfortable with your speculation that they are leaving it up to God and just aren't having kids. It's a harmful fantasy to teach young people that you can have intimacy and you magically won't get pregnant. A lot of "mainstream" conservatives have been sold this fairytale only to be surprised that magic thinking didn't work and they're pregnant. Sex ed 101: If you're having unprotected sex, expect to get pregnant usually within 6 months if not sooner. If you're not pregnant after a year, that's infertility.  Thinking it will take a while and we just got married or we can't get pregnant because we have two active children doesn't actually work out that way. 

As for Joy, she and Austin are as fundie as they come. I don't think she'll fight with Jill, but they will slowly grow apart. 

 

I would never recommend „leaving it up to God“ as contraception (or breastfeeding, interrupting or counting days for that matter). Thanks for making me aware that my comment could have been read that way. If you don’t prevent you can get pregnant every time you have sex (if you are ovulating). I would challenge you though in your statistics. Yes, 6 months is a statistically size for falling pregnant if you have no underlying conditions and don’t prevent. BUT that is assuming you have sex regularly in your fertile window. It’s a number used for people explicitly trying to get pregnant. The fertile window per cycle is only a couple of days so the chances to get pregnant per cycle are actually “only” 30-40%. Mother Nature has a lot of other tricks up her sleeve to make it happen though. The chances are higher if you are younger. The body pushes some buttons around your ovulation to make you really into sex around that time. Raging hormones will bring on lots of uups pregnancy if you don’t watch out. 
I was just trying to say that it’s not unusual if you are not explicitly trying for a child it’s not completely strange not to fall pregnant. Sleep deprivation, stressful schedules for both partners, two children that demand attention lead to less frequent intercourse in many families. If you additionally miss the fertile window your chances are even slimmer. That’s all very coincidental though and by no means a recipe for contraception. Not preventing might very well mean leaving it up to God for them. It’s semantics. I would call it Russian Roulette or taking chances. A situation where a pregnancy would not be a drama but rather a happy surprise or generally not unwanted. Others you would have taken measures (beyond praying obviously).
I will say though, I don’t have people with a, let’s say, less than ideal education about sex and preproduction in mind when I write my comments.