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Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary


samurai_sarah

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Derricks an ass, but I am happy he is living Josh’s dream- law school, more freedom, 2 kids. Kick rocks, Josh. 
 

As far as I know, he (Derrick) hasn’t sexually assaulted anyone so I’m willing to give him this win. He may be responsible for some trauma/triggers  to other people (I’m thinking of the Jazz comments) but we have no confirmation of that. I’m no fan of Derrick but I’m glad he and Jill have the life they do for the most part. A small ? For the shit she’s had to put up with in her life From the actions of a shithead brother and her parents protecting him. I don’t know the word I’m trying to say... ‘reward’ seems vulgar. A small pittance? 

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I was browsing Derrick's insta and I saw in tge comments where he wrote about if he had Jazz's contact info he'd like to invite her for lunch or to his house. I took a screenshot but idk hownto post it. It's in the comments as a reply under the picture that says "sit with me" He clearly didn't apologize or anything but he also didn't misgender her so it's maybe a small start.

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About the siblings: I doubt any of them would be bothered with the more superficial changes Jill made, like clothes and hair. We have seen a lot of Duggar daughters and daughters-in-law wear pants, change their hair (Jinger mainly) and enjoy mainstream entertainment like music or TV series. Jinger again has made most of these changes and seems to still be well accepted into the clan.

The siblings that disagree with Jill’s lifestyle are probably bothered by her more meaningful and deep changes: like changing church, sending Israel to public school and being less legalistic about her theology. I bet they probably aren't comfortable with Jill distancing herself from IBLP and the parents in such a public way. At least I would see these points as causing the more tensions for certain siblings.

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59 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

he has a smartphone, covenant eyes is probably installed

I had no idea such a thing existed. I guess it’s good for people with a porn addiction? But otherwise...wtf.

If he has such a thing on his phone, who is controlling it? Anna? JB?

12 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

I was browsing Derrick's insta and I saw in tge comments where he wrote about if he had Jazz's contact info he'd like to invite her for lunch or to his house. I took a screenshot but idk hownto post it. It's in the comments as a reply under the picture that says "sit with me" He clearly didn't apologize or anything but he also didn't misgender her so it's maybe a small start.

Wow. Not misgendering is a huge step.

Edited by Pleiades_06
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33 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

I had no idea such a thing existed. I guess it’s good for people with a porn addiction? But otherwise...wtf.

If he has such a thing on his phone, who is controlling it? Anna? JB?

Wow. Not misgendering is a huge step.

Lots of Christian colleges require it for residential students. You can make the filters pretty strict. Anna probably gets the reports, possibly JB and Jana as well. I feel like they mentioned having it installed on all the kids devices. 
it’s also not just for porn

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Edited by purple_summer
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24 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:
  Hide contents

B10195DF-B37D-48AA-B73C-639DA5DCB98C.thumb.png.83b9b0fba6cbda60bb995116141ecf00.png

No misgendering...but no gendering at all.

Thank you for posting the screen shot. I'm pretty sure I've done it before but couldn't remember how. 

I noticed the no gendering at all but previously he's been over the top offensive in misgendering so I figure even not gendering at all is a positive step in this case.

 

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The adult sibling relationships are one of the most interesting aspects of the Duggars. My speculation: Sisters Unhappy with Jill - Jana, Joy. Sisters Okay wth Jill: Jessa, Jinger. Both Jessa and Jinger have siblings-in-law that have lifestyles more similar to Jill’s than their own, and those siblings are still shown love and inclusion by the parents and Ben and Jeremy. I don’t think Jessa and Jinger would want to condemn Jill for living the life she wants. Jana and Joy seem more rigid, more black and white. Jana, because JB and Michelle could never be wrong, and Joy just doesn’t come off as a deep thinker. I don’t think that any of the sisters go out of their way to be particularly close to Jill though. They don’t seem very supportive.

The brothers don’t seem to care about Jill one way or the other, except for James. He will always be on Jill’s side and will probably follow her out.

 

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55 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

The adult sibling relationships are one of the most interesting aspects of the Duggars.

 

I agree. Right now I'm rewatching old episodes and am on the one where Josiah is visiting with the Swansons and describes his siblings as "like having a lot of cousins". I am only one of two, so the only sibling dynamic I've experiences is the one I have with my sister and the idea of having 18 of them intrigues me. There must be alliances and factions, a lot of gossip behind your back.

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1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

The adult sibling relationships are one of the most interesting aspects of the Duggars. My speculation: Sisters Unhappy with Jill - Jana, Joy. Sisters Okay wth Jill: Jessa, Jinger. Both Jessa and Jinger have siblings-in-law that have lifestyles more similar to Jill’s than their own, and those siblings are still shown love and inclusion by the parents and Ben and Jeremy. I don’t think Jessa and Jinger would want to condemn Jill for living the life she wants. Jana and Joy seem more rigid, more black and white. Jana, because JB and Michelle could never be wrong, and Joy just doesn’t come off as a deep thinker. I don’t think that any of the sisters go out of their way to be particularly close to Jill though. They don’t seem very supportive.

The brothers don’t seem to care about Jill one way or the other, except for James. He will always be on Jill’s side and will probably follow her out.

 

Interesting - I thought the opposite. Joy invited her to her baby shower, was in her buddy group and comments on her posts regularly. Jessa however made a video about how she was angry with herself for hating church as a kid which has BIG "steeped in the KoolAid" vibes. Jana lives in her parents home, she's going to think exactly what they want her to think. Jinger definitely is ok with Jill's choices since her husband used to drink, she wears pants, and they've been exposed to plenty of secular stuff.

ETA - the brothers being raised slightly apart doesn't mean they don't care about their sister's spiritual wellbeing, remember how Joe led Joy back to the faith? I think Josiah is less judgemental of Jill but probably scared to lead his family out like Derek did. Joseph probably disapproves but still loves his sister either way but keeps his distance for fear of the unknown. Josh is jealous she can openly admit to drinking alcohol. John-David strikes me as the "live and let live" type when it comes to his siblings - if she's not hurting anyone, then he's fine with it.

Edited by fundieundies
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Ok throwing my hat into this ring of Jill & her siblings' relationships speculation.

I'm sure that things have gotten pretty strained between her and Jana.  Jana seems to be completely immersed in her beliefs and if she was into some of the same ideas as Jill, Jana would not be living the way she is.

I think Josh might be unconsciously jealous of Jill's lifestyle, but outwardly I bet he's a loud voice against her.  Partly to show how he's reformed and probably partly because he's still angry at her for telling their parents what he was doing to her and her sisters as kids.

John-David probably still disapproves, but kind of shrugs it off and doesn't mention it as often.  I would wonder if he is more vocally disapproving if Jana is very upset because of his and Jana's close relationship.  This could make him feel that he needs to be on her side.

I'm actually really surprised by a number of people's assessment of Jessa.  I cannot believe that she would be chill about these changes.  Jessa comes off as incredibly black and white and completely bought into the ideas of her faith. She also tends towards saying exactly how she feels.  I cannot see how she doesn't tell Jill exactly what she thinks, especially given their childhood relationship.  Jill found it easy to follow their parents' rules and Jessa was always the 'bad child'.  Given they're a year a part, I imagine that might intensify Jessa's dislike of Jill since they would be a direct comparison. Now that their positions have switched, I bet Jessa feels like she needs to hold on to this change.

I'm guessing Jinger doesn't necessarily care too much, especially outwardly since she seems like a person who would avoid all confrontation.  But her and Jill have never seemed close so I'm guessing it doesn't really add a strong sibling relationship.

 Joseph is a bit of a toss up for me, because in some ways he seems like he would want to avoid talking about this like Jinger, but he also seems very firm in his beliefs and the strength of them.  This in addition to what others have brought up from Joy's speech about Joseph really bring her back into their beliefs.

Josiah is another tricky one.  I think naturally he might be one who is more empathetic to Jill's position, but he also might have been one of the most targeted kids in keeping him in the faith.  He is also married to someone who's very much in his childhood faith.  I think he might not say anything to Jill but behind her back agree with his other siblings who think that she has lost her way.

Joy might be similar to Josiah.  I think it depends a lot on Austin's views since she seems easily swayed.  Joy doesn't seem to be around Jill very much at all anymore. She might have taken the path where she just reduces her contact with Jill over time without saying that anything is wrong.

Overall, I have a lot of doubts that any of Jill's siblings are totally fine with her changes, but some might be more up front about it.

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3 hours ago, JDuggs said:

The brothers don’t seem to care about Jill one way or the other, except for James. He will always be on Jill’s side and will probably follow her out.

This made me think - we've been speculating about James and Lauren Caldwell. Do you think them not announcing a courtship (if we are right) could be Jill's influence? eg telling him how hard her marriage was early on because if how they courted/ how little they knew each other, and encouraging him to go as slow as possible. I'm sure Jill and Derick must be aware (they've been going to therapy!) how ill equipped it left them for marriage past the honeymoon stage. I don't think JB and Michelle could regulate James' access to Jill the way they can the little girls and they might not be overly worried about James rebelling if he is in fact courting the pastor's daughter. I think they're probably most worried about Jenny, who has openly hated being a Duggar since toddlerhood.

My assumption is the ones most judgemental are the ones with the most invested in their parents being right, maybe the ones who are unhappy but don't feel they can do what Jill can do. Jana maybe, since she's lost so much of her twenties to her parents. Anna, who took the opposite path when the cult wasn't working for her. But also, if Jill is criticising their childhood or parents it might have a lot to do with how they view that. Jill helping at Lauren's birth gives me hope they're still big flight risks.

I desperately want the tea and Jill is definitely doing the right thing in not giving it to us. 

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I'm bored by the assumptions that Lauren C. is courting a Duggar boy. Until it's announced or there's better evidence I doubt it. 

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Addisons birth episode was just on here in Australia. James was shown holding the baby with Lauren in the hospital room. Michelle was the only other Dugger in the room, the rest were Kendras family!

 

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7 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

 

I'm actually really surprised by a number of people's assessment of Jessa.  I cannot believe that she would be chill about these changes.  Jessa comes off as incredibly black and white and completely bought into the ideas of her faith. She also tends towards saying exactly how she feels.  I cannot see how she doesn't tell Jill exactly what she thinks, especially given their childhood relationship.  Jill found it easy to follow their parents' rules and Jessa was always the 'bad child'.  Given they're a year a part, I imagine that might intensify Jessa's dislike of Jill since they would be a direct comparison. Now that their positions have switched, I bet Jessa feels like she needs to hold on to this change.

 

I noticed Jessa did not ‘Like’ the post on Instagram, I can’t speak for the others, I don’t follow them so I don’t *think* their reactions would show up on my feed. 

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Man that second Q and A was hard to watch. So many “like, like, likes.” Of note to me, DD commenting that JIll converted to Southern Baptist. I actually liked hearing that they belong to a more mainstream denomination vs Church of BG and JB. At least there’s somewhat more accountability involved. Just from listening to how they run everything through scripture and are doing studies, which are likely more vetted than everything being interpreted via JB, before they make decisions, I’m betting they are likely using birth control of some sort, and have found scripture to back that decision. And obviously if they are having relations, and using BC, and if JC  wanted them to conceive, they would, right? 
 

Maturation, counseling and getting away from JB have done both Jill and DD wonders.

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1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Man that second Q and A was hard to watch. So many “like, like, likes.”

She mentions this on her instagram! I guess it's the first time that she is explaining any of this to people who aren't close friends or family. Quite brave really.

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9 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

I'm sure that things have gotten pretty strained between her and Jana.  Jana seems to be completely immersed in her beliefs and if she was into some of the same ideas as Jill, Jana would not be living the way she is.

I think Jana has to be completely immersed, or she'd have a breakdown. I certainly would in her situation. I'm still hoping she gets herself out someday, because I don't think anyone (maybe even she) knows who she actually is yet. She's just a Duggar. One of many.

I don't know how the other siblings feel about Jill other than that Josh is probably pretty jealous. I kind of wonder how well the youngest ones even know her, frankly. Especially after she was out of the country for a while. I think there are just too many siblings with too big an age range for them all to be super close. The ones close in age to her (other than Jana) all have their own families to deal with, and the Duggar name/show/celebrity to focus on. I think as long as Jill doesn't do anything that hurts their own income stream, they probably don't care overly much what she does. They might even like the changes she's making, because the court/marry/birth thing is getting boring and she's getting the Duggar name some fresh attention.

JB and Michelle probably have OPINIONS, but that's because Jill was the favorite for a while most likely. But these are people who struggle to name all their kids in order, who still have actual children they should be raising. I think Jill probably has gotten a bit of perspective now and is hopefully able to hear what they say without letting it change her mind.

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Regarding jana's opinions, I think Cognitive Dissonance Theory would say she's invested so much of her life into her beliefs that she will hold them more tightly. When we've worked hard for something, we tend to put that thing on a pedestal and silence competing voices. The inner, unrealized voice might be saying, "I've supported it so much, it MUST be the correct way because I wouldn't be so gullible as to support the wrong thing." And all contradictory evidence will be flicked aside and rationalized.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html

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I  heard someone say, "Once you're woke, it's hard to go back to sleep." Can't remember who said it. Do we consider Jill "woke" at moment? If she had married a Chad Paine or Chris Maxwell type...would she be who she is today? Did we start to dislike Derick before or after the Jazz incident? He has alot to do with Jill's positive transition. The fact that she admits to seeing a therapist is very brave. This might have JB and Michelle questioning their parenting if a kid needs a therapist as an adult. Well so far Josh is the only one whose committed a crime that was NOT handled properly. I feel bad for him because he will always the Duggar that screwed up. I hope they don't treat Jill as another screw up. Because she's not.

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I wish Jill would elaborate more on whether she and Derick are preventing pregnancy (I mean, they obviously are) beyond repeating that they're leaving the amount of kids they have "up to the Lord".

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1 hour ago, Tangy Bee said:The fact that she admits to seeing a therapist is very brave. This might have JB and Michelle questioning their parenting if a kid needs a therapist as an adult. Well so far Josh is the only one whose committed a crime that was NOT handled properly. I feel bad for him because he will always the Duggar that screwed up. I hope they don't treat Jill as another screw up. Because she's not.

I think you give JB and Michelle way too much credit. I can’t imagine any of Jill’s actions that would lead them to question their parenting. If anything, they would associate her need for therapy to her straying from her ILBP upbringing and engaging in sinful behavior. Remember, these are the people who tried to sweep their daughters being molested by their brother under the rug, and never got Josh the psychiatric help he needed/needs.

I hope Jill realizes how brave and strong she is. Family ties are powerful! 

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37 minutes ago, indianabones said:

I wish Jill would elaborate more on whether she and Derick are preventing pregnancy (I mean, they obviously are) beyond repeating that they're leaving the amount of kids they have "up to the Lord".

I think there are a lot of different ways to "leave it up to God". My family has varying degrees of Catholic fundie lite-ness amongst the cousins and siblings, aged 27-53. It's been pretty common though to see NFP/BC combined pray and wait to hear from God/be given a sign that the timing is right and then respond to the call and start trying. In their eyes this is leaving it up to God in the sense that they are following his will as a guide. It's a bit more discerning than the usual Duggar approach (though involves some mental gymnastics) but I could see Jill and Derrick embracing that as a potential version of letting God decide and actually family plan somewhat. 

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12 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

I don't think JB and Michelle could regulate James' access to Jill the way they can the little girls and they might not be overly worried about James rebelling if he is in fact courting the pastor's daughter.

Not all that long ago, 2020 at least and possibly just 3-4 months ago, someone, maybe Jill, had a post about enjoying some time with James and in one of the pics, at a separate table off a ways, were Jana and another sibling or two. It made me think that even James, who had to be 18 already, had to have a chaperone in order to hang out with Jill. Yet Justin is (possibly) living out of state near his almost fiancé at the ripe ol' age of 17.

To agree with @wendy-sparkles, it would be much more difficult to limit James' exposure to Jill than it would be the 4 youngest girls. Maybe Jennifer was at the table with Jill and James (or whoever, sorry I can't remember exactly) and that is why Jana was there sitting at another table.

Now I'm editing a 2nd time... I glanced through Jill's IG posts, at the lead pic only, looking for said photo I mentioned and I couldn't find it. Does anyone else remember this photo/post? I wanted to link it here.

Edited by Bobology
searching for the truth
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15 hours ago, JDuggs said:

The adult sibling relationships are one of the most interesting aspects of the Duggars. My speculation: Sisters Unhappy with Jill - Jana, Joy. Sisters Okay wth Jill: Jessa, Jinger. Both Jessa and Jinger have siblings-in-law that have lifestyles more similar to Jill’s than their own, and those siblings are still shown love and inclusion by the parents and Ben and Jeremy. I don’t think Jessa and Jinger would want to condemn Jill for living the life she wants. Jana and Joy seem more rigid, more black and white. Jana, because JB and Michelle could never be wrong, and Joy just doesn’t come off as a deep thinker. I don’t think that any of the sisters go out of their way to be particularly close to Jill though. They don’t seem very supportive.

The brothers don’t seem to care about Jill one way or the other, except for James. He will always be on Jill’s side and will probably follow her out.

 

I'm going to disagree.  I think that Joy still supports Jill. She is the one who seems to have her at all her events.  I think Joy and Jill are still close. But otherwise I like your list very much. 

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