Gwen Shamblin Lara 13: Shut UP You Paper-Thin Chip Licker!

[SunnySide]

@RFsurvivor

I am so sorry for what you had to endure. I hope things are better for you now and you have been able to heal. Thank you for sharing  your insights and experiences regarding Remnant. 

[AmazonGrace]

If your family knows your name, you have to dump them. 

[freefromthin]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

If your family knows your name, you have to dump them. 

The sad thing about the so-called "transfer" is that if WD (also known as starvation/food restriction) doesn't WORK for you, then you end up believing that you just don't love God enough, which leads to an endless cycle of guilt and condemnation. 

[Blue]

1 hour ago, freefromthin said:

The sad thing about the so-called "transfer" is that if WD (also known as starvation/food restriction) doesn't WORK for you, then you end up believing that you just don't love God enough, which leads to an endless cycle of guilt and condemnation. 

That's why I think her emotional and religious abuse is worse than her horrible nutrition advice.

[throwaway9988]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:02 PM, Blue said:

I feel like the pressure is so on when we around our RF family. We love God and give Him the credit due, but they find ways to turn every teeny tiny thing into something religious and it's exhausting sometimes. 

Yes! Thank you for giving me the words to describe this! 
 

I had a big falling out with my parents but against my better judgment I went back to Nashville one time to show support for my indoctrinated sister during her wedding. To their credit, they made a bit of an effort to not constantly reinterpret every little thing through their Remnant goggles, but they are just too far gone to be able to function around normal people anymore.
 

They can’t talk normally about the weather because that’s 100% god. They can’t talk about any current events because those are 100% god cursing other people for disobedience or foreshadowing the end of the world. They can’t talk normally about anything scientific or medical because scientists are all arrogant people who constantly get everything wrong and are fighting against god, except for that all the technology they are surrounded by and use constantly (tv, cellphones, internet, cars, computers) wouldnt work if scientists werent right about 99.99% of the things they believe about chemistry and physics and everything else, and oh wait in that case praise god that he allowed scientists to be right about those things so that we could enjoy those blessings. They can’t talk normally about meals, obviously. They can’t talk normally about relationships because apparently it’s the highlight of their lives when young people in Remnant start dating each other or pop out a baby, and triple that excitement if the young people are inner-circle. Apparently nothing is more exciting than indoctrinating another child. 
 

So it just became this exhausting experience where no one could talk about anything because they literally cant stop themselves from constantly making little off-putting comments revealing their wacko, all-encompassing worldview. 

[Blue]

17 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

Yes! Thank you for giving me the words to describe this! 
 

I had a big falling out with my parents but against my better judgment I went back to Nashville one time to show support for my indoctrinated sister during her wedding. To their credit, they made a bit of an effort to not constantly reinterpret every little thing through their Remnant goggles, but they are just too far gone to be able to function around normal people anymore.
 

They can’t talk normally about the weather because that’s 100% god. They can’t talk about any current events because those are 100% god cursing other people for disobedience or foreshadowing the end of the world. They can’t talk normally about anything scientific or medical because scientists are all arrogant people who constantly get everything wrong and are fighting against god, except for that all the technology they are surrounded by and use constantly (tv, cellphones, internet, cars, computers) wouldnt work if scientists werent right about 99.99% of the things they believe about chemistry and physics and everything else, and oh wait in that case praise god that he allowed scientists to be right about those things so that we could enjoy those blessings. They can’t talk normally about meals, obviously. They can’t talk normally about relationships because apparently it’s the highlight of their lives when young people in Remnant start dating each other or pop out a baby, and triple that excitement if the young people are inner-circle. Apparently nothing is more exciting than indoctrinating another child. 
 

So it just became this exhausting experience where no one could talk about anything because they literally cant stop themselves from constantly making little off-putting comments revealing their wacko, all-encompassing worldview. 

Yessssss. And then I feel like my kids stand out when someone says "Do you like the _______?" and they don't respond with "Oh yes, I'm just so thankful that God _______!!!" 

But then I feel guilty afterwards because I often just smile and nod and "agree" when it comes to the political or scientific because I just don't have the energy to handle the ridiculous argument that will follow. It's too exhausting!!

Edited August 25, 2020 by Blue

[ManyGoats]

17 minutes ago, Blue said:

Yessssss. And then I feel like my kids stand out when someone says "Do you like the _______?" and they don't respond with "Oh yes, I'm just so thankful that God _______!!!" 

But then I feel guilty afterwards because I often just smile and nod and "agree" when it comes to the political or scientific because I just don't have the energy to handle the ridiculous argument that will follow. It's too exhausting!!

I know what I think doesn't necessarily calm your conscience but I honestly don't think you bear any guilt for not engaging in a conversation that you know will turn into an impossible argument. It won't do any good and it'll just raise your stress level. I think it's wise to just let it flow around you.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Yessssss. And then I feel like my kids stand out when someone says "Do you like the _______?" and they don't respond with "Oh yes, I'm just so thankful that God _______!!!" 

But then I feel guilty afterwards because I often just smile and nod and "agree" when it comes to the political or scientific because I just don't have the energy to handle the ridiculous argument that will follow. It's too exhausting!!

Don't feel guilty! I stopped having the energy to say anything when it comes to a lot of things with my family. Obviously if it is stuff like telling my kids they are going to hell I'll say something, but dealing with situations like this can suck the life out of a person and sometimes I just want to semi-enjoy a family get together without a debate that will go nowhere. Even my more mainstream evangelical relatives do that weird praise God for every tiny thing that Gwen loves.  It is hard not to roll my eyes when there is all this talk about God finding them a perfect parking spot or God making sure the salsa they wanted was in stock at the store or God making sure the shoes they wanted were on sale. Part of me wants to point out the flaw in this line of thinking, but it just isn't worth it. 

I can't remember what thread it was where a poster wrote that you can't reason someone out of something that they didn't reason themselves into but  that is the mindset I've had to take with my relatives. These ideas aren't based on any reason so it is very hard to try and talk them out of it. And especially with relatives it sometimes just isn't worth the fight. They can be aware that if they ever have doubts you are a safe person to talk to, but don't feel any guilt over not arguing over every little thing. Pick your battles. 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by formergothardite

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

32 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

all this talk about God finding them a perfect parking spot or God making sure the salsa they wanted was in stock at the store or God making sure the shoes they wanted were on sale

Sooooooo. if they didn't get the perfect parking spot, the salsa was sold out and the shoes they wanted were't on sale -- does that mean God hates them or is Satan waging spiritual warfare against them?

I'm being sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking. If things don't go their way do they blame God? Assume they are being attacked by Satan? Or blame themselves because they're not worthy/ don't love God enough for him to shower them with blessings?

It's probably me being a not-Christian Catholic, but I've always figured God had more important things to do than to ensure I got rock star parking or pick out my wardrobe.

But then hey  -- what do I know. According to Gwod I'm not one of the "Saints." According to the fundi-gelicals I'm not born again and saved.  According to both of them (and Steve Maxwell) I'm going straight to Hell. So kind of them to have figured out everyone else's eternal life.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[formergothardite]

15 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Sooooooo. if they didn't get the perfect parking spot, the salsa was sold out and the shoes they wanted were't on sale -- does that mean God hates them or is Satan waging spiritual warfare against them?

I'm being sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking. If things don't go their way do they blame God? Assume they are being attacked by Satan? Or blame themselves because they're not worthy/ don't love God enough for him to shower them with blessings?

It's probably me being a not-Christian Catholic, but I've always figured God had more important things to do than to ensure I got rock star parking or pick out my wardrobe.

I don't really understand the mindset either because the fundie IFB churches I grew up in didn't preach that. The first time I remember really hearing about it is here at FJ when a fundie wrote a blog post about how God made sure she found the perfect sweater dress at a second hand store. And then God gave Raquel a horse.  I don't remember people gushing over God providing them with every tiny thing pointless thing when I was young.  It seems like this this is becoming a more thing among the evangelical people I know and it is weird. I know they use the verse about praying without ceasing, so God hears their prayers about every single thing. 

 It doesn't make sense at all, though when it is thought about. But I suppose these belief systems count on people not thinking. If God is so involved in the world that he finds parking spots or make sure the weather is perfect for a party or fixes Gwen's hair, then that can only mean he is choosing to not answer the prayers of people who need things like food and shelter. A God like this has some real wonky priorities and kind of sounds like a jerk. 

26 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

But then hey  -- what do I know. According to Gwod I'm not one of the "Saints." According to the fundi-gelicals I'm not born again and saved.  According to both of them (and Steve Maxwell) I'm going straight to Hell. So kind of them to have figured out everyone else's eternal life.

I have heard that we will have cookies in hell! And in hell we can actually eat the cookies, unlike Gwen's heaven where we would just have to eat a crumb and then exist on diet coke for an eternity. Also, I have it on good authority that there will be no diet coke in hell, but there will wine. 

[Blue]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Sooooooo. if they didn't get the perfect parking spot, the salsa was sold out and the shoes they wanted were't on sale -- does that mean God hates them or is Satan waging spiritual warfare against them?

I'm being sarcastic, but also somewhat seriously asking. If things don't go their way do they blame God? Assume they are being attacked by Satan? Or blame themselves because they're not worthy/ don't love God enough for him to shower them with blessings?

At least for our family, it's hard to explain. Like, they wouldn't say that if we got a bad parking space God was mad at us, but if my husband lost his job, they would probably encourage us to get closer to God and go "all in!" When health issues have occurred in the family among RF members, they've told us they were going to pray (natural response) and really try to get 100% with God and please him with everything they did... in other words, if we "get it right" then maybe God will fix the health problems. It's so painfully twisted and not-Biblical and backwards. It's something I really, really struggle with, because even though we aren't super close with those people, it pains me to see someone who truly thinks that they just need to "do better for God" and then He'll heal them... 

And on the second note... it's so weird. How they'll say that any attacks on Gwen and Joe, in ANY manner, are spiritual warfare and proof that Satan is trying to destroy this "truth." But if YOU'RE having problems, then it's not spiritual warfare, it's the consequences of you not giving 100% to God. If a solid RF'r is having health issues then it's just God using the experience for His glory, but if YOU have health issues, then it's because you're not being fully obedient. Does that make sense? I mean, it shouldn't because it doesn't, but that's how our family portrays it.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Don't feel guilty! I stopped having the energy to say anything when it comes to a lot of things with my family. Obviously if it is stuff like telling my kids they are going to hell I'll say something, but dealing with situations like this can suck the life out of a person and sometimes I just want to semi-enjoy a family get together without a debate that will go nowhere. Even my more mainstream evangelical relatives do that weird praise God for every tiny thing that Gwen loves.  It is hard not to roll my eyes when there is all this talk about God finding them a perfect parking spot or God making sure the salsa they wanted was in stock at the store or God making sure the shoes they wanted were on sale. Part of me wants to point out the flaw in this line of thinking, but it just isn't worth it. 

I can't remember what thread it was where a poster wrote that you can't reason someone out of something that they didn't reason themselves into but  that is the mindset I've had to take with my relatives. These ideas aren't based on any reason so it is very hard to try and talk them out of it. And especially with relatives it sometimes just isn't worth the fight. They can be aware that if they ever have doubts you are a safe person to talk to, but don't feel any guilt over not arguing over every little thing. Pick your battles. 

 

I really like that idea... you can't talk reason into something they they don't even reason on.

Sometimes I'm torn - on one hand we really try to take to heart what former RF people have said about not trying to argue over it, but just be there for them so that if they leave they have a place to land. On the other hand, sometimes I wonder if it's just enabling. I had a relative go off on a huge tangent about how anti-depressants were the cause of all the school shootings and suicides and everything... and the reasoning (or lack thereof) was so ridiculous that I just didn't have the energy to discuss back... but did it give that relative validation that I didn't discuss back? I don't know. 

But thank you. It's hard to know the "right" thing to do in situations that are just so bad.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Blue
2nd paragraph added

[Blue]

So off topic... does anyone who has left or who knows people in know what's up with parents and their adult children buying houses together? I was talking to a friend and her and her husband are thinking of moving in with his parents... as in, buying a big fancy house together and then both couples (and their kids) living together. She made it sound like quite a few young couples are doing that in RF now, but I didn't ask for numbers or anything, and I wouldn't know the majority of the people anyway.

Is it because we can't bear to let our young couples be in "starter homes" that don't fit the RF image?

Or is it about control? I asked her if she was sure she wanted to live with her in-laws and she said she thought it would be "really sweet" to be under their authority and have that example of a godly marriage to follow, but then tried to backtrack a bit and said that her and her husband would still be making their own decisions and blah blah blah...

Or is it both? Image and control?

[formergothardite]

8 hours ago, Blue said:

I had a relative go off on a huge tangent about how anti-depressants were the cause of all the school shootings and suicides and everything... and the reasoning (or lack thereof) was so ridiculous that I just didn't have the energy to discuss back... but did it give that relative validation that I didn't discuss back? I don't know. 

This sort of stuff is hard because what they are saying is actually dangerous and could kill someone. But at the same time they are basing this entirely on emotions and will automatically reject any facts that are provided and you get sucked into a emotionally draining vortex that goes nowhere.  There will be absolutely no reasoning with them because they got to this point based on emotions and how Gwen makes them feel. If you have children listening to them say this stuff that adds another level to it where do you really want to have your children exposed to ideas like that? 

For me personally, there are some subjects I'm not comfortable sitting quietly while people discuss them. And it is hard! But my husband and I decided that there were some subjects we weren't going to tolerate by just sitting there. We had to let people know that we didn't agree with them. So we said something like "I know we will never agree about this but we are going to respectfully ask that you not discuss it around us or our children and if you insist on doing so we will have to leave." And then follow through with it and leave if they insist. And people get upset and think you are being ridiculous, but I feel like in some cases just sitting quietly does validate the beliefs, but debating is also sort of what they want. In my experience people who are "all in" when it comes to insane beliefs would rather get you caught up in a fruitless argument than just have you quietly make a point about how their beliefs are so dangerous that you won't even listen to them. 

I do not think that doing what I suggested will change their minds, but debating probably won't either. This way there is no spending energy debating people who can't be reasoned with and there is also no enabling the behavior or validating it in any way. But I do think it should be saved for particularly egregious things.

 

 

[RFsurvivor]

I can’t find the post about how do Remnant members keep up with having the nicer clothes for all the events and color schemes. Gwen recommended thrift shops and consignment stores to get dresses. Also people would swap dresses all the time. Lastly, not sure if it’s still in operation, but they created Angels Armoire which was a church ran consignment shop which had lots of formal and semi formal wear. Once that opened up, it was recommended that once kids grew out of their formal clothes to donate them there so that it would be able to be bought by or donated to another Remnant member. 

[SpecialAgentCookieCrisp]

10 hours ago, Blue said:

So off topic... does anyone who has left or who knows people in know what's up with parents and their adult children buying houses together? I was talking to a friend and her and her husband are thinking of moving in with his parents... as in, buying a big fancy house together and then both couples (and their kids) living together. She made it sound like quite a few young couples are doing that in RF now, but I didn't ask for numbers or anything, and I wouldn't know the majority of the people anyway.

Is it because we can't bear to let our young couples be in "starter homes" that don't fit the RF image?

Or is it about control? I asked her if she was sure she wanted to live with her in-laws and she said she thought it would be "really sweet" to be under their authority and have that example of a godly marriage to follow, but then tried to backtrack a bit and said that her and her husband would still be making their own decisions and blah blah blah...

Or is it both? Image and control?

To me, that sounds like control. It makes it even harder to have escapees or defectors. I suspect there are people on the fence. Gwen is getting more radical so I'm sure there are some people that need a little extra effort to keep them chained to RF. It's prob only suggested for certain situations. It would be the ultimate cult control tactic in my opinion. 24/7 supervision/indoctrination of young marrieds and their children. Makes it hard to sever ties with your captor that you also share a mortgage with. 

[throwaway9988]

12 hours ago, Blue said:

any attacks on Gwen and Joe, in ANY manner, are spiritual warfare and proof that Satan is trying to destroy this "truth." But if YOU'RE having problems, then it's not spiritual warfare, it's the consequences of you not giving 100% to God. If a solid RF'r is having health issues then it's just God using the experience for His glory, but if YOU have health issues, then it's because you're not being fully obedient. Does that make sense? I mean, it shouldn't because it doesn't, but that's how our family portrays it.

Yes, the hypocrisy of it is honestly astounding. If Gwen gets a flat tire then it’s spiritual warfare, Satan is clearly trying to disrupt her day or keep her from reaching the church to relay God’s words to the Remnant. If I get a flat tire, then God is cursing me for disobedience. You can have a mundane event happen to you and two different Remnant cultists will spiritually interpret it (and therefore judge you) in two different ways, back to back. It really makes it obvious how the whole thing is bullshit.

Edited August 26, 2020 by throwaway9988

[ManyGoats]

12 hours ago, Blue said:

I asked her if she was sure she wanted to live with her in-laws and she said she thought it would be "really sweet" to be under their authority .......

Yikes! Why on earth would any adult want or need to live with and "under authority" of someone else? Really sweet? Let's see what she has to say after about six months. I don't care how nice they are or how good a relationship you have with your parents or in-laws, that is going to chafe.

As a young adult I once lived with another family due to circumstances I won't bore everyone with but I can tell you it was not a good situation. It was never stated that I would be under their authority but one of the adults assumed that would be the case. She was a little overbearing and even though I respected "her house, her rules," it was difficult. Having someone else boss you around in your personal life as an adult really grates on you.

 

[SpecialAgentCookieCrisp]

If you belong to RF church, and you are here right now, maybe you have doubts. Repeat this as many times a day as is necessary. Or write your own. 

This is Gwens fairy tale and not mine. 
I deserve to be the author of my own story, my own fairy tale.....not Gwen. 
I am capable of making my own decisions no matter how small. Making decisions that are in conflict with what Gwen approves of, do not make them wrong in Gods eyes. They are only wrong to Gwen because she wants to control me. Making my own decisions does not mean that I am destined for hell. I do not have to be perfect to be loved. I do not have to pretend to be someone I'm not anymore.....for anyone else's approval. I will not be held hostage in body or soul. After adulthood my parents can be my mentors, but are no longer my authority. It's ok if my dreams are bigger than Brentwood Tn. My life is short and I deserve to live it my way. I will not let my story be written by Gwen Shamblin Lara. 

 

*And if you are going to have someone author your life for you, pick someone who's not a shit writer. 

[ManyGoats]

4 minutes ago, SpecialAgentCookieCrisp said:

*And if you are going to have someone author your life for you, pick someone who's not a shit writer. 

LOL Well said.

[Blue]

8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This sort of stuff is hard because what they are saying is actually dangerous and could kill someone. But at the same time they are basing this entirely on emotions and will automatically reject any facts that are provided and you get sucked into a emotionally draining vortex that goes nowhere.  There will be absolutely no reasoning with them because they got to this point based on emotions and how Gwen makes them feel. If you have children listening to them say this stuff that adds another level to it where do you really want to have your children exposed to ideas like that? 

For me personally, there are some subjects I'm not comfortable sitting quietly while people discuss them. And it is hard! But my husband and I decided that there were some subjects we weren't going to tolerate by just sitting there. We had to let people know that we didn't agree with them. So we said something like "I know we will never agree about this but we are going to respectfully ask that you not discuss it around us or our children and if you insist on doing so we will have to leave." And then follow through with it and leave if they insist. And people get upset and think you are being ridiculous, but I feel like in some cases just sitting quietly does validate the beliefs, but debating is also sort of what they want. In my experience people who are "all in" when it comes to insane beliefs would rather get you caught up in a fruitless argument than just have you quietly make a point about how their beliefs are so dangerous that you won't even listen to them. 

I do not think that doing what I suggested will change their minds, but debating probably won't either. This way there is no spending energy debating people who can't be reasoned with and there is also no enabling the behavior or validating it in any way. But I do think it should be saved for particularly egregious things.

 

 

I will say, after a few very heated discussions, they have finally learned not to talk about anything in front of our girls. If the girls are there we do NOT sit quietly. Our oldest is getting smart enough to have her own responses, which is beautiful!

4 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Yes, the hypocrisy of it is honestly astounding. If Gwen gets a flat tire then it’s spiritual warfare, Satan is clearly trying to disrupt her day or keep her from reaching the church to relay God’s words to the Remnant. If I get a flat tire, then God is cursing me for disobedience. You can have a mundane event happen to you and two different Remnant cultists will spiritually interpret it (and therefore judge you) in two different ways, back to back. It really makes it obvious how the whole thing is bullshit.

It's always funny when this kind of thing comes up with family because we'll ask them point blank "Soooo this is happening to us because we made God mad and if we were in RF this problem would go away?" and then it gets super uncomfortable for them because they don't want to say "You're going through this because you don't follow Gwen," but at the same time, that's exactly what they want to say. They usually give us some generic "We just know that when we're in this truth we see the fruit in our lives..."

Edited August 26, 2020 by Blue

[Smalltowngirltn]

I want to tell a long known fact in Remnant but very rarely mentioned.  Years ago Kent and Regina Smith's daughter "left the church".  It was a very ugly time and some of the things done to that girl were horrible but she eventually returned because she did not want to lose contact with her brothers.  Within months of her coming back she was engaged and quickly married off to the son of Rusty and Lisa Henry.  Most know that marriage has been full of many ups and downs but they are always brought forward in one of Gwen's Wednesday night "tv shows" to tell how Gwen and the "message" helps them get straight.  They are a joke.

 

As for parents living with their children it is so common with the families.  The two Im most familiar with are the Sims/Leaman and Blair/Higgins.  It is an absolute control but I also think it helps some of the families get into bigger houses for their families and appear more wealthy.  It is always presented that the children are helping the parents but I absolutely think it is the opposite.  The living together goes to people moving to Brentwood too.  People that move to town are almost always put with a family already living there for a period of time.  It is said to help them find a home, adjust, etc.  Personally Ive always thought it was control.

 

Right now I am concerned about an upcoming marriage where the bride-to-be meet a guy at college and told him the only way she would continue the relationship was if he was in the church.  He joined the church and now the wedding is coming up in October.  My heart aches for the groom's parents.

One of the families that Gwen told to stop doing some of their hobbies have left the church.  What was the hobby you asked?  He was an Elvis impersonator and she had a blog about the Williamson County area.  They were told they didn't bring a positive imagine on the church.  It must have been heart wrenching has they still have a daughter, son-in-law and grandchild in the church.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

This "under authority" thing has me puzzled.  I understand that all of RF is under authority to Gwod, but how does it work for the rest of RF?

Are children, even as grown adults no matter how old, always under authority to the parents/ in laws?

 Is the hierarchy something like this:

          Gwod - Supreme authority over everyone in RF 

          RF Parents - under Gwod, over their children forever?

          RF Children - under Gwod, under their parents forever, over their own children forever?

          RF children's children -- under Gwod, under their grandparents forever, under their parents forever, perhaps eventually over their own children?

Is anyone in RF ever not under authority?

And what exactly does that mean?  Do the people "in authority" get to run the lives of those under them?  Do the under-authority-lings have to live and do and act and dress and believe exactly as they are told by all those authority people? Do the authority people ever contradict each other and themselves?

Does anyone in RF ever get to make a decision of his/her own? What happens if he/she does?

(I think about this stuff way too much)

Edited August 26, 2020 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[throwaway9988]

26 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

This "under authority" thing has me puzzled.  I understand that all of RF is under authority to Gwod, but how does it work for the rest of RF?

Are children, even as grown adults no matter how old, always under authority to the parents/ in laws?

 Is the hierarchy something like this:

          Gwod - Supreme authority over everyone in RF 

          RF Parents - under Gwod, over their children forever?

          RF Children - under Gwod, under their parents forever, over their own children forever?

          RF children's children -- under Gwod, under their grandparents forever, under their parents forever, perhaps eventually over their own children?

Is anyone in RF ever not under authority?

And what exactly does that mean?  Do the people "in authority" get to run the lives of those under them?  Do the under-authority-lings have to live and do and act and dress and believe exactly as they are told by all those authority people? Do the authority people ever contradict each other and themselves?

Does anyone in RF ever get to make a decision of his/her own? What happens if he/she does?

(I think about this stuff way too much)

Yes, you pretty much nailed it. My impression was always that children (even adult children) quit Remnant at a much higher rate than their parents, and it’s not a surprise why. The people at the top of the pyramid hold all the power, a lifetime appointment to a position with all the control. The people of the bottom of the pyramid just get Stockholm syndrome. 

[AmazonGrace]

Esau wanted to eat a meal and he deserves eternal damnation for it. 

Spoiler

Jacob and Esau

August 27, 2020

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

In the book of Hebrews, the Apostle Paul refers to the story of Jacob and Esau, and he interprets this story that has been so misunderstood:

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears. Hebrews 12:14-17

Esau is referred to as “godless.” He sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son for a single meal, and yet Jacob fought, planned, yearned for the birthright and the blessings. The point is this: many people come to Weigh Down Ministries just to lose weight. They learn the techniques, but their motive is all about weight loss and all for self—they were not seeking or longing for the birthright, a relationship with the Almighty God of the Universe.

Weigh Down is not about losing weight at all. It is about connecting to God your Creator so that you can live and live eternally. To connect, we must be like Jacob and compete for His presence and love and show God that we want it—that we are not going to let food get in the way of a relationship with God, laying down the love of the created things on Earth over the Creator, and the result just happens to be the receiving of the fruit of God’s Spirit and His characteristics, which include love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness and faithfulness and gentleness and self-control. This self-control leads to weight loss.

This is about a relationship with God. Esau would despise the relationship with God. This means that he did not consider being close to God as more important than anything in the world. Food could come between him and being first with God, getting all the blessings from God—he would sell it all for food. You have to reverse that. You have to show God that you would rather have a relationship with Him than just a single meal. You would rather have His blessings than food.

 

 

 

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

This is about a relationship with God. Esau would despise the relationship with God. This means that he did not consider being close to God as more important than anything in the world. Food could come between him and being first with God, getting all the blessings from God—he would sell it all for food. You have to reverse that. You have to show God that you would rather have a relationship with Him than just a single meal. You would rather have His blessings than food.

Dear Lord. I know I say this a lot about RF, but that is so completely screwed up, both from a traditional theological perspective and an overall perspective.