Gwen Shamblin Lara 13: Shut UP You Paper-Thin Chip Licker!

[Concerned1954]

5 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

I started to write a big thing, then decided against.

, I think that you are a decent person who spoke unthinkingly. 

 

 

I want to thank you for calming things down.  However I did not speak unthinkingly.  I specifically indicated one small narrow point that a person of Gwen's strong personality and ego would not have tolerated abuse.  It was not a treatise on abuse.  The fault lies with those who chose to extrapolate beyond what I said.  I realize this won't please the irrationally angered and as a woman I find it surprising to be accused of being in the patriarchy.  

It is not just the speaker who must work to be clear.  Half the duty of communication is on the listener to ascertain the true message.  It was a small point to say that Gwen was not abused based on the fact the evidence suggests that Gwen was engaged in adultery, was manipulating the children against their father, had engaged in deception worthy of WWII to hide the adultery and to justify a divorce.  She needed to attack David, but damn if y'all don't want to help Gwen do it.  

4 minutes ago, RFsurvivor said:

As a person who was a member for over a decade, I have suffered and still do with the lingering impact of Gwen’s weight loss advice. While I do not have an official diagnosis, I strongly believe I have some form of an eating disorder (probably Anorexia) and struggle to eat in a healthy manner. I have the daily battle of not falling back into anorexic tendencies and patterns. I also struggle with body dysmorphia and being able to look at myself and my body in a healthy way. 
 

On a related note and since weigh down and Remnant are so intertwined, from my experiences in Remnant and the experience of leaving Remnant, I have had to deal with mental trauma that would likely fall under Religious Trauma Syndrome which is similar to PTSD/cPTSD. 

I sincerely hope you rid yourself of this problem.  I know that if you devoted yourself to Gwen's teaching you could be mislead, but the discussion here was whether David Shamblin was aware of damage from the weight loss business.  No while he worked for WDW there were no such stories and given the tens of thousands who read Gwen's books and such there was no such problems being publicized.  So it is unfair to just pick on David Shamblin as the person who should have stopped what obviously even you didn't initially detect.  

I like your name because I know you have learned truth from your RF experience.  That truth is that Gwen is a silly, stupid woman who says silly, stupid things but with charisma albeit fading charisma.    Good luck.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

26 minutes ago, Concerned1954 said:

Seems to me that when she was on Larry King, the question of its dangerousness would have been addressed.  FACT

I had no idea Larry King was once the gatekeeper of the public trust!  Had I known I'd have felt so much safer.  

[RFsurvivor]

23 minutes ago, Concerned1954 said:

 I sincerely hope you rid yourself of this problem.  I know that if you devoted yourself to Gwen's teaching you could be mislead, but the discussion here was whether David Shamblin was aware of damage from the weight loss business.  No while he worked for WDW there were no such stories and given the tens of thousands who read Gwen's books and such there was no such problems being publicized.  So it is unfair to just pick on David Shamblin as the person who should have stopped what obviously even you didn't initially detect.  

I like your name because I know you have learned truth from your RF experience.  That truth is that Gwen is a silly, stupid woman who says silly, stupid things but with charisma albeit fading charisma.    Good luck.

I personally have said nothing about David. Honestly I don’t care. I never meet him during my time in remnant. I was simply responding to your claim that no one has an illness from her teachings. In addition I would recommend not trying to determine my character. I was indoctrinated at a young young age. I was indeed mislead by my parents who followed a very similar path that @throwaway9988 described. A slow decent into extreme religion. When I was old enough to research, reason, and find my way out, I did. Every human is possible of being mislead. That is a human thing. Please do not use that to define or belittle another person. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by RFsurvivor
Grammar is hard

[FilleMondaine]

4 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

haters.  

That's how Gwen thrives.   Her detractors get off message and talk emotions and opinions, but not facts.  

Hi @Concerned1954 I love what you said in this quote. This is exactly how people with personality behaviors think. You are absolutely right for pointing this out. Thank you. And thank you also for the kind words. Please take this with the most enormous amount of aloha: You have the right ideas, but you are explaining yourself in inappropriate words. And the words that you are using are actually harmful and should be called out.

And who wouldn't be so peeved about this whole mess that the mind goes nuts and words come from the heart without the brain-filter? Remnant is categorically awful and makes people silly. Please, @Concerned1954: we have already established that you are a decent person who knows a thing or four about this cult, so please get a cup of tea, a good rest, and talk to us, tomorrow. As a connected person, there are a lot of people dying to hear cogent criticisms of this organization.

I think I can take the liberty of saying that we are generally on your side. And please, do take a break.

24 minutes ago, Concerned1954 said:

David Shamblin was aware of damage from the weight loss business.  No while he worked for WDW there were no such stories and given the tens of thousands who read Gwen's books and such there was no such problems being publicized.  So it is unfair to just pick on David Shamblin as the person who should have stopped what obviously even you didn't initially detect.  

My father, and I assume @throwaway9988 father would have knowingly supported something so disgusting. But as we said before, incrementalism and a weak link of a twisting honor can render even the best of people into enablers for abuse.

Abuse poisons even the best of us.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 minutes ago, RFsurvivor said:

As a person who was a member for over a decade, I have suffered and still do with the lingering impact of Gwen’s weight loss advice. While I do not have an official diagnosis, I strongly believe I have some form of an eating disorder (probably Anorexia) and struggle to eat in a healthy manner. I have the daily battle of not falling back into anorexic tendencies and patterns. I also struggle with body dysmorphia and being able to look at myself and my body in a healthy way. 

It has been decades since my ED has been dangerously active but there are times I can't even open this thread because it can be very triggering for those of us who still fight the mental aspects of ED, even if not practicing.

I am so sorry this happened to you and that you were harmed with a dangerous program under the guise of religion makes what Gwen does so much more vile.

The poster who just said that Gwen's weight loss philosophy wasn't dangerous has no idea what they are talking about.  Stop eating once full is not what she preaches.  To maintain a constant state of hunger and subsisting on micro amounts of random crap while eschewing whole, healthy foods is textbook eating disorder.  Training those that follow her to worship the growl is training them to be continually obsessed with food and to get accolades for starving themselves is text book ED.

I truly hope you keep fighting the good fight and battling the impulse for unhealthy behaviors.  I know how hard it is.  I also know that after you get a good grip on healthier habits it gets so much easier...the mindset that goes with it is a very long journey for some of us...but I promise it absolutely gets easier.

 

 

[FilleMondaine]

8 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It has been decades since my ED has been dangerously active but there are times I can't even open this thread because it can be very triggering for those of us who still fight the mental aspects of ED, even if not practicing.

I am so sorry this happened to you and that you were harmed with a dangerous program under the guise of religion makes what Gwen does so much more vile.

The poster who just said that Gwen's weight loss philosophy wasn't dangerous has no idea what they are talking about.  Stop eating once full is not what she preaches.  To maintain a constant state of hunger and subsisting on micro amounts of random crap while eschewing whole, healthy foods is textbook eating disorder.  Training those that follow her to worship the growl is training them to be continually obsessed with food and to get accolades for starving themselves is text book ED.

I truly hope you keep fighting the good fight and battling the impulse for unhealthy behaviors.  I know how hard it is.  I also know that after you get a good grip on healthier habits it gets so much easier...the mindset that goes with it is a very long journey for some of us...but I promise it absolutely gets easier.

 

 

For some reason, I'm having trouble sending personal messages. But maybe it is appropriate to just make it public: @RFsurvivor and @HerNameIsBuffy: You both are so awesome. ED is a fracking metric ton of difficulties. So, my doggie-avatar is sending extra bum-wiggles in your general direction. Also, hugs from human-me. (Unless you don't like hugs. Your body your rules)

And @throwaway9988 has dealt with some serious poo-poo and seems awesome, and viewing a father with critical eyes is really hard and I wish that all the cool FJ-ers could have a Wine and Whine Zoom meeting because we are obviously awesome.

Edited August 6, 2020 by FilleMondaine
To add another person to the "three cheers" post.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, FilleMondaine said:

For some reason, I'm having trouble sending personal messages. But maybe it is appropriate to just make it public: @RFsurvivor and @HerNameIsBuffy: You both are so awesome. ED is a fracking metric ton of difficulties. So, my doggie-avatar is sending extra bum-wiggles in your general direction. Also, hugs from human-me. (Unless you don't like hugs. Your body your rules)

I will never turn down affection that comes with doggy wriggles.  

The PM issue is a sporadic glitch that we're hoping is fixed in the next software update.  In the meantime it happens at random so we tell people to just try again later.  Or you can try right clicking and opening message in new tab, sometimes that works.

[RFsurvivor]

5 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

For some reason, I'm having trouble sending personal messages. But maybe it is appropriate to just make it public: @RFsurvivor and @HerNameIsBuffy: You both are so awesome. ED is a fracking metric ton of difficulties. So, my doggie-avatar is sending extra bum-wiggles in your general direction. Also, hugs from human-me. (Unless you don't like hugs. Your body your rules)

And @throwaway9988 has dealt with some serious poo-poo and seems awesome, and viewing a father with critical eyes is really hard and I wish that all the cool FJ-ers could have a Wine and Whine Zoom meeting because we are obviously awesome.

Puppies are the best and I will always love on a puppy (please note that all dogs regardless of age are puppies) ?? 

my puppies would get jealous but would get over it....eventually

[Blue]

I've been reading through all the arguments, and while I'm not close enough to RF personally to address the David issues, I will say... the debates or whether Gwen's weight loss advice is dangerous is proof of how sneaky she really is.

On the surface, her weight loss program is common sense, plain and simple. Eat when you're hungry. Stop when you're full. Don't eat because you're sad, mad, happy, bored, or whatever other emotion leads you to binge calories your body doesn't need. It's like how my main task in my current weight loss journey is not eating at night... I eat at night because I like eating while I watch tv, but consuming platefuls of nachos at 10pm is probably not doing much for my waist line.

The problem comes when people get really deep and it goes much further. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure some people were never given poor advice. I'm sure some people flew below the radar and were left unharrassed by both Gwen and leadership... but many are not so lucky. Many are shamed into loosing 10 pounds or they can't be in a friend's wedding. Many are shamed into fasting for days because that's what "true obedience" is. And this isn't just me cherry picking stories from vengeful ex-members... her own teachings tell people to wait for the growl, but to eat if it doesn't come after 36 hours. THIRTY-SIX HOURS. Her own devotionals say that fritos are like manna from heaven and nutritional facts are a hoax to suck you into some diabolical plan. I have relatives that live their lives in a dizzy fog because they don't.freaking.eat. Now, did Gwen tell my relative specifically to starve herself? No, I doubt it... but her advice has led my relative to think gaining half a pound is dishonoring God and I can tell you that nobody at the church sees her sickly thin figure and is encouraging her to be healthy. It's a toxic and spiritually abusive environment that is created, maintained, and encouraged by her teachings.

[AmazonGrace]

3 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

And that response suggests that you are not close to the situation and contrive rather than know the events. 

The reality is that some of if not most of Gwen's weight loss advice works to some degree.  It is not dangerous.  No one has died nor do I know of anyone who suffered illness from it.  FACT. 

An epistemological point about facts: writing  in all caps does not make anything a fact.

Some of Gwen's advice might have helped some people to lose weight, at least anecdotally,  but that does not make it a fact that she never gave any dangerous advice. You have no way of knowing whether someone has died, You may not know anyone who suffered illness from it (or choose not to blame Gwen's advice if you do), but this does not make it a fact that it never harmed anybody.  Your lack of awareness does not prove the absence of harmful effects.

To properly accept as a fact that Gwen's advice works and has never harmed anyone, you would have to refer to a pretty extensive body of well-planned medical research  that would point to health benefits and establish the lack of harmful effects. So far Gwen's evidence seems to consist of cult member testimonials and anecdotes, and she's not really into that whole science mess. But I'll wait.

 

Quote

 There is nothing wrong with most of the weight loss advice Gwen gives. 

I disagree. We have seen plenty of whacked weigh loss advice in these threads, even apart from the bits that make it God's will for you to starve yourself.

Quote

"Eat until you're full" hardly originated with Gwen.  She simply packaged known weight loss advice to appeal to those with a religious event.  In the late Nineties during Weigh Down's heyday the program was before and there was not a word about it being dangerous.  Seems to me that when she was on Larry King, the question of its dangerousness would have been addressed.  FACT

You may be right that Gwen didn't invent "eat until you're full" but it's hardly the only thing that she's said.  She's certainly given some advice that goes against established nutritional and medical knowledge. The fact that other people may have also  said some of the things she has said does not make it a fact that none of it is dangerous.  Lots of things have been hyped in the media that turned out dangerous or plain out wrong, so having visited the Larry King show does not prove anything said there is a fact.   Larry King is not a medical researcher.

 

 

Quote

I know for a FACT that he had nothing to do with RF though Gwen chose to originally portray David as involved.

 

Is this a fact, and not your opinion,  because you wrote it in all caps?  Do you think it's a fact because you know him personally?
I believe there is a way to get verified as an insider in a certain topic with the mods if you want to share your personal experience and make it more likely that members accept your insights as a fact, as opposed to an outsider's opinion. 
 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by AmazonGrace

[formergothardite]

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

And that response suggests that you are not close to the situation and contrive rather than know the events. 

I'm assuming you also think we shouldn't snark on Gwen since many of us aren't close to the situation and can't know events? 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

he reality is that some of if not most of Gwen's weight loss advice works to some degree

Not really. It would send me into a cycle of binge eating. We are actually pretty well informed about her weight loss teachings here. 

 If we are going to go all FACT on the thread, even in the 90's the Weigh Down books were telling people to wait till they heard their stomach growl and then first eat tiny amounts of the junk food they craved to see if that fills them up before eating healthy food. I'm going to let you read back through all of our threads were we deep dive into why this is such dangerous advice since you seem interested in facts. You can read about how it sets people up to fail when it comes to long term weight loss. That some people some where lost weight doesn't mean it is good advice. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

In the late Nineties during Weigh Down's heyday the program was before and there was not a word about it being dangerous

You realize that this is pretty much what Bill Gothard's supporters have said? They claim that no one spoke up in the 80's and 90's back when IBLP was at the biggest so it couldn't have been bad. This is a faulty argument because it assumes the ability to communicate information was exactly the same in the 90's as is now, which we all know isn't true.  The world was a different place then, the ability to quickly find people who have experienced the same things you have experienced and then spread that information fast all over the world,  just wasn't really there. You don't know that there wasn't a word about it being dangerous because it probably would have been much more word of mouth back then. There is a reason it wasn't until fairly recently that information about all these dangerous religious groups has become easy to find. And the reason isn't that nothing bad was going on in the 90's. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

.  Seems to me that when she was on Larry King, the question of its dangerousness would have been addressed.  FACT

Not really. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

hat Gwen hurts people is not readily obvious.  I agree she does, but I disagree that it is obvious.

Maybe not to you, but you weren't married to Gwen(unless you are David). But it is a hard sell that David wouldn't know his wife is threatening people with lawsuits for discussing how the family business brings harm. David isn't just a regular person who got sucked into a weight loss cult, he is the one who helped start the weight loss cult! It is damn hard to believe he at no point was aware how many people had started posting about the harm caused by WD/Gwen/RF. And once she started the church, her weight loss program became a part of the cult. She used it to funnel members into her cult, so you can't separate them and claim he only stuck to the Weigh Down part so his hands are clean when it comes to RF. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

hey speculate without any facts that David was involved in RF. 

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/301-gwen-shamblin-controversy-the

This is an old article. Most of it boring shit about the trinity, but does mention this little tidbit. 

Quote

ote: while Mrs. Shamblin and her husband were once associated with churches of Christ, they have started a new movement near Nashville called the Remnant Fellowship. David Shamblin has been described as the “leading shepherd” of this new sect.

 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

Please state who was hurt, how they were hurt, how David or anyone would know about it. 

Have you googled? Or read the threads here? If you don't know how people are hurt. Go educate yourself. Especially if you are going to be tossing FACT around.  And how would David know? Like I said, it is impossible to believe David wasn't aware that his wife was frantically attempting to shut down anything that criticized how the family business hurt people. It is extremely easy information to find, but David had a financial incentive to ignore it, didn't he? The financial incentive is something that needs to be acknowledged. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

I know for a FACT that he had nothing to do with RF though Gwen chose to originally portray David as involved.  He chooses and chose not to fight Gwen on the issue because she held his kids hostage to her fantasy world. 

Didn't you already say David defended Gwen for starting her cult, that doesn't sound like nothing.  I realize it was a difficult situation since children were involved, but like you pointed out earlier, the children were already adults when the cult was started. Since this was a situation with adults, it doesn't really make sense that he went along with a dangerous cult and enjoyed the money made from that and the lifestyle it afforded because the children weren't capable of understanding.  They were adults. When dealing with adults he could have sat them down, explained how much he loves them, but that he wasn't going to let their mother spread lies about him and explain why he wasn't involved. Adults are capable of understanding that, even if they didn't agree with his decision.  It would actually be a lot harder to do that after he spent years going along with the lies. If he had from the start said "I'm not going to allow your mother to lie about me." it would have been a lot easier for his adult children to understand that he loves the family, but he doesn't tolerate lying.

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

Yes, I like David and he may have had his head in the ground over Gwen and RF, but what could he have done.

A lot. No hand wringing about how he was a helpless soul who couldn't have done a thing. He could have at the very least said he wouldn't allow his wife to lie about him. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

The reality is that David is no less a victim than other people who lost family members to Gwen's bullshit.  

Not really. Judging from the pictures on FB he still seems to see his grand kids and kids, which is more than other victims. He lost his wife but it seems he wasn't exactly that interested in what was going on with her life since he apparently didn't pay enough attention to figure out she was running a starvation cult.  He had to have been ignoring her a hell of a lot to have missed that. This doesn't seem like a couple who cared for each other. 

And while people have lost their houses and jobs and ended up in poverty following Gwen, we have read the divorce papers. David walked out of this pretty damn good. When one starts a weight loss program and spends decades living in wealth from the proceeds and then goes along with a weight loss cult and lives in wealth based on those proceeds and then walks out of the divorce with wealth, they don't get to claim they are just like everyone else. They aren't and if David thinks that, his friends need to be good friends and have a come to Jesus talk with him. Seems like he too lives in a fantasy world where he doesn't want to accept his part in all this. 

10 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

Isn't it ironic that David is viewed here as having been both a persecutor of RF and a tacit supporter? 

I for one don't think he persecuted RF and the accusations by Gwen that he did stems mostly from the fact that he shows her weight loss program is a big flop. She has The One True Way to be trim and slim and yet it doesn't even work on her own husband? She wanted a husband to trot out and show off and David wasn't that. She seems to view any evidence that her program isn't working as persecution. 

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

o having visited the Larry King show does not prove anything said there is a fact.   Larry King is not a medical researcher.

She also visited Tyra. Are you telling me that Tyra Banks isn't a medical researcher?! Say it ain't so! So I shouldn't be getting all my medical advice from talk shows? 

Though, Gwen didn't seem to pick up that Tyra was sort of making fun of her for coating a fry with salt, taking a tiny bite and then putting it down. Watching Gwen do that shows how her teachings are nothing more than disordered eating advice. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by formergothardite

[AmazonGrace]

The instruction (I refuse to call it weight loss advice because advice presupposes that the rules have some utility)  to eat a little something in 36 hours if you don't get the growl is definitely one example that is dangerous for a lot of people. It might not hurt a healthy adult to fast occasionally but there are e.g diabetics who benefit from regular eating habits and might have serious consequences. There are also some dieters who might be able to fast for a while but relapse into bingeing afterwards and regular meals might help them to lose weight more than Gwen's system. 

There are elderly people who forget to eat, dementia patients, people with psychiatric  disorders, people with nausea, and others with poor appetite,  and letting them go so long without regular meals may end in chronic malnutrition or in the ER with more acute problems. 

It has already been noted that people who are susceptible to eating disorders are in danger. Of course they might take any diet to unhealthy extremes, but IMO Gwen's brand of equating eating with sin and brainwashing people that God wants you to eat less and less and less is an added level of dangerous eating-related guilt trips. 

Gwen has also spoken against taking medications and dietary supplements (with some disclaimers but still, making her point). No doubt some people are taking pills that they don't need and some that might be doing more harm than good. But this is definitely dangerous because Gwen is not a doctor and sometimes doctors do have a point and sometimes people do need their  prescriptions and may be harmed if they stop taking them because Gwen or some other quack told them to.

Her junk food agenda seems potentially harmful as well. The science is pretty consistently of the opinion that a junk food and Coke diet is less healthy than a diet with lots of vegetables and fiber. 

Whether Gwen came up with any of this first and whether talk show hosts knew enough about the issue to be critical  is not really relevant to the question whether any of it is good advice. As we have seen in the antivax debate and other issues, there are plenty of people willing to dispense bogus medical advice in the media, especially if there's any money to be made, and it gets challenged by the talk show hosts only occasionally.

I have been trying to figure out what the difference between Gwen's WeighDown teachings and RF teachings is and it's very unclear to me. She still posts excerpts from ancient WeighDown books in the Remnant devotionals so apparently she thinks that the contents still line up with her religion. And many of them seem the same sort of religious nonsense that have nothing to do with proper scientifically based nutritional advice as her newer writings. 

I would appreciate clarification on this issue if anyone has any insights.

 

I forgot her stance on sports. The science is pretty clear that a sedentary lifestyle is not good for you, but she is definitely not an advocate for exercise. Lack of exercise has definitely helped to make more people  ill or dead, and if her rules played any part in their decisions it is certainly harmful. 

Although it might be argued that it is rarely just one person's teachings that determine whether you eat your veggies or go jogging. I'm sure that most people have had other factors influencing their decisions, not merely Gwen.

 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

have been trying to figure out what the difference between Gwen's WeighDown teachings and RF teachings is and it's very unclear to me. She still posts excerpts from ancient WeighDown books in the Remnant devotionals so apparently she thinks that the contents still line up with her religion. And many of them seem the same sort of religious nonsense that have nothing to do with proper scientifically based nutritional advice as her newer writings. 

I would appreciate clarification on this issue if anyone has any insights.

From what I remember it seems like Gwen pretty quickly moved to using weigh down to recruit members for RF. In reading stories, it seems she started telling people the reason they couldn’t lose weight was because they weren’t members of RF fairly early on. While legally there is a difference between the two entities, it looks like they are fairly intertwined. 

I’m curious as to how @Concerned1954 distinguishes the two since RF teaches weigh down and weigh down teaches RF. And since I don't want to be accused of just being emotional to see WD teaching RF as early as 2001, I'll link to this. 

Quote

At this seminar, her claim was that after someone would finish a WD class, they would gain weight back because the churches that they went back to allowed sin. Even people filled with sin were sitting on the same pew, unchanged for years, according to Gwen. She claimed that all other churches were counterfeit; therefore, we needed a place of worship where sin was not tolerated. This place of worship was called Remnant Fellowship, which was started by her family and the David Martin family in 1999.

and

Quote

In June 2001 we were invited to come down to Nashville, Tennessee, for a "Remnant weekend" to learn about how to start a local Remnant fellowship in Ohio and to ask further questions about what Remnant stood for. We arrived at the Weigh Down building. 

and while these people realized that David was a part of RF in name only he also participated in the love bombing weekend. 

Quote

The weekend ended with a huge barbecue at the Shamblin home with David, Gwen's husband grilling. 

 

And if anyone even wants to question that this organization hurts people, Just read that testimony about Gwen telling people to take their children off medication cold turkey and RF leaders telling people to beat children with glue sticks and belts. David was hosting events to welcome people into this belief system. He was living in a mansion because of this belief system. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by formergothardite

[AmazonGrace]

The WeighDown website pages , eg https://www.weighdown.com/why-weigh-down-works/ contain this copyright notice: 

 

[freefromthin]

12 hours ago, Concerned1954 said:

And that response suggests that you are not close to the situation and contrive rather than know the events. 

The reality is that some of if not most of Gwen's weight loss advice works to some degree.  It is not dangerous.  No one has died nor do I know of anyone who suffered illness from it.  FACT.  Therefore I will not spout irrational hatred though I join all of you in condemning RF.  There is nothing wrong with most of the weight loss advice Gwen gives.  "Eat until you're full" hardly originated with Gwen.  She simply packaged known weight loss advice to appeal to those with a religious event.  In the late Nineties during Weigh Down's heyday the program was before and there was not a word about it being dangerous.  Seems to me that when she was on Larry King, the question of its dangerousness would have been addressed.  FACT

David did not know of much of Remnant Fellowship activity.  He wasn't a member and didn't participate.  That Gwen hurts people is not readily obvious.  I agree she does, but I disagree that it is obvious.  In fact Gwen's impact on people who are in my opinion gullible and perhaps desperate for something intangible is partly attributable to that gullibility.  Some people here assume without saying how, they speculate without any facts that David was involved in RF.   Please state who was hurt, how they were hurt, how David or anyone would know about it.    I mean this seriously because you are right about one thing, I do want to see David treated fairly here.  Not on speculation and assumption nor fake stories.  Hell that's the Gwen/RF way.

I know for a FACT that he had nothing to do with RF though Gwen chose to originally portray David as involved.  He chooses and chose not to fight Gwen on the issue because she held his kids hostage to her fantasy world.  Yes, I like David and he may have had his head in the ground over Gwen and RF, but what could he have done.  In some ways he checked out to avoid battle with a narcissistic terrorist who would lie and manipulate to get her way.  Isn't it ironic that David is viewed here as having been both a persecutor of RF and a tacit supporter?  The reality is that David is no less a victim than other people who lost family members to Gwen's bullshit.  

 

Some of the responses on this page are very Gwen-like in that you don't like one of my points because it goes against some strongly held belief that some responders have freaked out on me.  

I have shared my testimony on here a few times, so I will spare regular readers/posters the details. However, I wanted to address the bolded part about not knowing anyone who suffered an illness from the WD advice. I am one such person. As a result of my attempt to follow WD guidelines, I suffered from persistent light-headedness, dizziness, and inability to regulate body temperature for quite some time. I ended up getting a barrage of tests done because I didn't realize that I was starving myself to death. I had lost 25 lbs on the program, and the interesting thing is that the weight loss was SUPPOSED to make me feel BETTER, but instead I had become obsessed with my weight and food intake, and would often try to eat as little as possible. I had even told my accountability partner (AP) that I was feeling sick and I was told that if I'm sick, then I have no way of knowing whether or not I'm REALLY hungry. I also asked how I would know when I had lost "enough" weight and was told to "look in the mirror" and "see" if I had more weight to lose. This was VERY dangerous advice. I was already on the scale daily, and there were times when I'd eat one small meal per day in an effort to control the scale. If the scale went up even 1/2 lb, I would feel DEFEATED. I developed an eating disorder, and it has taken the greater part of over two years for me to just be able to EAT without feeling a lot of guilt or condemnation. I also ended up gaining twice the amount of weight that I had initially lost.  It's a DAILY battle for me, and maintaining my sanity has become priority ONE.

All of that to say that I agree that the teachings of WD are very dangerous. Though "eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full" is not a NEW teaching, Gwen redefines the parameters of "hunger" and "fullness". I have listened to and participated in numerous teachings/classes, so I am not speculating on this.  We were advised to wait until we felt/heard a growl and then eat off of demitasse saucers or some other really small dish. People were expressing happiness over waiting for the growl and then eating only a "few bites" of a meal. NOT healthy.

[AmazonGrace]

There have been several teachings that emphasize that the goal is to eat less and less and to lose more and more weight, with no reference to what your baseline weight or diet is and whether it is healthy for you to be thinner and thinner. 

A case in point (I have bitched about this before but it continues to be an appalling life threatening  Pro Ana landscape.) 

If you are struggling for ANY reason, Gwen's answer is to give up more food. 

It cannot be assumed that all the readers are obese individuals who could stand to give up a meal or two or three. At some point, everyone who responds to every struggle in their lives with giving up more food, will reach a point in which they eat less than they need. 

I think Gwen believes that the If you pray enough the growl makes sure that you can't get too thin or eat too little. But I have no faith in this theory. I have seen enough malnourished people to know that human body doesn't really work that way and you can lose feelings of hunger for various reasons. And if you believe that God wants you to give up more and more and more food, eventually you might do so despite feelings of hunger, because otherwise you fear ending up in Hell.

Eating disorders pile up a lot of guilt and pressure on the person even without threats of eternal damnation. 

 

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

A couple of recent pieces of idiocy from Gwen's Facebook.

Spoiler

Do you really want to take dietary advice from a person who thinks salt makes *everything* better? Note that the concept of *everything* includes things that don't need any salt, things that already have enough salt, and things that would be absolutely  ruined if you add salt.

Too much salt will spoil your soup. Too much salt will kill any living thing. Add enough salt in your water and pretty soon it will be undrinkable. Pour salt in your underpants. Are they somehow better underpants now?

Salt is a biblical metaphor, I know, but it's also a real thing in the real world and this is just dumb if you have any idea how salt works, or if you have any idea how *everything* works.

 

Spoiler

I am assuming that everyone who checks out Gwen's Facebook probably can indeed breathe but do you really want to take health advice from a person who has never heard of people who cannot run or talk or see? People with various disabilities do use the internet.

Gwen does not live according to her own advice anyway because she has clearly wanted many, many material things besides the ability to see and  breathe, and if she can run in those heels I can juggle with four flaming motorsaws. 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by AmazonGrace

[formergothardite]

Another FACT, David clearly knew about issues with WD/RF. So if he is telling friends he had no way of knowing these things were going on, then he is lying. 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/home/article/20443194/biblebased-weight-loss-workshop-sued-for-religious-discrimination

Quote

 The Shamblins, Gwen and her husband David, said through a representative that they did not wish to comment.

 

[AmazonGrace]

I came across this site http://www.weighdownchurch.com/

The bottom of the page says  "Copyright 2020 by DNN Corp | Privacy Statement| Terms Of Use" but obviously it hasn't been updated in a good while.

 

Belated father? is it used to mean deceased? according to Merriam-Webster:

Quote

 

Definition of belated

1 : delayed beyond the usual time One of the men was belated and did not join us at all.— William Pittenger

2 : existing or appearing past the normal or proper time a belated birthday card She received belated recognition for her work.

 

 

And what in  the everlasting freak was the general surgeon's child with no medical training doing making rounds with her father? JMO but I don't think you gain a medical background simply because somebody in your family is a doctor, and hospital rounds are not a fun family activity for the doctor's kids. Get a babysitter.

Spoiler

some of those links are no longer functional. I wanted to read about the relationship between WD and Remnant but it just loops back to the same page. But uh, I'm sure she received money even if she didn't call it a salary.

What other cities and nationalities worldwide have been afflicted with Gwen's Pro Ana business?

Spoiler

 

David is still featured in the text but conveniently not in the photo.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by AmazonGrace
I can't delete or spoiler the fourth screenshot, it's there again after i save

[SpecialAgentCookieCrisp]

So I do not know either David or Gwen, I don't really care to. I hope what David is waiting for, is to collect all of his money over the 3 years or so that his divorce docs say he would, so he can then speak out. I do believe that any person, male or female, has the potential to suffer abuse.  But considering that Gwen is complicit to this day in abuse of current and former members with the help of her henchmen, it's hard for me to imagine a circumstance with which I could feel sorry for her. 

I find it interesting that every member or person who speaks out against them is said to have "mental issues". This is what they do when they cannot defend their actions or words, they try to deflect blame.  Mental health issues do not preclude someone from speaking truth. Their ability to defame people using that narrative angers me. It seems that what Joe and Gwen preach about compassion and love and forgiveness is not practiced by them in his relationship with his child's mother. 

And damn, that's a reality show I might not be able to turn off.

I love what the leader page says about her. 

https://www.remnantfellowship.org/Our-Leaders/Gwen-Shamblin

It says "the depth of her compassion for the poor and oppressed, her drive to help the needy......" ? What does Gwen consider poor or oppressed. And how are they measuring the depth of it? In inches? Or tenth of inches? Because I actually find this pretty laughable in the face of suggested wedding gifts and church paid cruises. And do the new boobs belong to the church as well? Are the new girls something they can depreciate over several years on their taxes? ?

Edited August 6, 2020 by SpecialAgentCookieCrisp

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

David is still featured in the text but conveniently not in the photo

Gwen really didn't like to show her husband. It is so strange to see him mentioned, but to exclude him from the family picture. 

Here is an old article we have discussed before but it has information that is relevant to the conversation as to how  enmeshed RF and WD are and was David so far removed from any of this that he should be painted as just a normal victim of WD/RF. I say no. He was neck deep in this and raking in the money with a program he didn't even seem to be using. 

http://www.spiritwatch.org/rebeccamead.htm

Quote

 Shamblin said, she felt called by God to start her own church.  She was encouraged by her husband, David
Shamblin, an affable fellow with a large belly who serves as the C.E.O. of Weigh Down

So David was the C.E.O of Weigh Down. What was WD teaching at this time? 

This is an example of what a WD meal plan would be. 

Quote

I got up and had a chocolate Pop Tart," he said.  "I was feeling some hunger around eight or
nine this morning, so I got one of those fun-sized candy bars.  For lunch, I had lasagna with some corn, with butter and salt.  Then for dinner I went to Taco Bell and had a chalupa--that's like a bready soft taco that is deep fried, with pintos and cheese. And I had a couple of bites of chocolate taco and ice cream." 

Quote

"If you look at National Geographic magazine pictures taken in Third World countries where food is not the addiction--I am not referring to pictures of starving people--you will see that God made people's bodies to be lean," Shamblin writes in "The Weigh Down Diet."  She doesn't believe that there is such a thing as a genetic predisposition to fat.  "Let's go back to the Holocaust," she suggested to me.  "To the concentration camps, where there was less food.  What person genetically predisposed to obesity was in there, out of the millions and millions that died?  When they ate less food, they became emaciated."

Quote

One of them, Tonya Cardente, worked until last June as a counsellor, speaking with Weigh Down participants who telephoned, looking for support.  Cardente told me, "People were calling in and saying that they had not been
walking in obedience"--they had fallen off the diet wagon--"and that they were wondering whether they were going to lose their salvation."  Cardente couldn't bring herself to follow the Weigh Down line, which contradicted everything that she had learned about God's forgiveness. 

And most telling

Quote

All that I ever required was what every employer requires--that you support the products, and you support the author," she said.  "The confusion comes in because my product happens to be religion. Never did I tell anyone they had to use the product.  Remnant happens to be one of our products, so to speak. 

 

[Ozlsn]

On 8/6/2020 at 9:53 AM, Smalltowngirltn said:

I want to address this as a member that was in Remnant during Gwen's divorce, engagement and remarriage.  I attended the glorified circus of her second wedding.

Joe Lara came into the church after an invitation from Rebecca Jackson and within three weeks of beginning to attend Remnant, Joe and his mother, were sitting in seats reserved for "Remnant Royalty" .  A couple of weeks afterwards was when he began serving as Gwen's bodyguard and making the "tour" of Remnant members to visit for  dinner or other reasons to gain the likability factor.

The story told at Gwen's many blessing showers was twofold....one that Micheal had a dream in December that Gwen was free from David and his persecution of her and the church.  It was repeatedly said the Jesus came to Micheal in a dream and revealed Gwen was free.  The second thing was that the mother of Joe's child had many mental issues and was a danger to his child.    This were repeated over and over by the leaders in Gwen's inner circle.

Her engagement was a well keep secret for only the local church members until Gwen deemed it was necessary to tell the out of towners.  The big production done on a Wednesday night was not shown to out of towners for several weeks.  Then the church basically shut down from the engagement in June to the wedding in August.  This was to give Gwen and her team total time to prepare for the wedding (including a new boob job for Gwen).  If you were a member you were expected to be at the wedding and members flew in and drove in from around the world.  Most chairs were removed from the church except for a few for the elderly and certain family to pack more people in. It is well documented that several people passed out form the heat in the church.  (Note here that other than Gwen's children there was no one from her family there)

Members were told that they could give visa gift cards (supposedly for Kingdom work) or monogrammed items for the wedding.  Suggestions of note cards and engraved silver items were given.  

After the wedding the couple and most leadership left for a three week cruise to the Greek Isles.  This was paid for by the church.

Upon the return Remnant's new opinion on divorce was released and we were told that this came after further study and prayer by Gwen.

It became a bad keep secret that Joe and Gwen were seeking a reality show on a network show.  Many church resources went into making videos of Joe and seeking out an agent for him.  After a time they began "Life with Gwen and Joe"

Thank you so much for posting this. I'm not sure why the boob job apparently tops my "WTAF?!" list, but it does. Closely followed by the honeymoon and the attempt at a reality show. 

I really hope Joe's ex is free of him.

[AmazonGrace]

Gwen has been repeating devotionals from thread 7 pretty consistently but there was none on August 3rd and 4th, and she's also apparently decided to skip over the two devotionals that followed the one posted on August 2nd in thread 7,  One said she needs God to help her navigate the stairs and another that people shouldn't take pills to numb their feelings because God wants you to feel bad. She continued with the regular thread 7 coverage afterwards.

It is probably too much to hope that Gwen has realized that she was horribly wrong. More likely it was just a technical glitch or an accidental oversight,  so I'll fix it for her and give you the link to remind you of one more reason why Gwen is dangerous and people who enable her are also dangerous.

 

At work, I have had to deal with several individuals recently who went off their meds against doctor's advice and ended up jumping from high structures. Zero stars, would not recommend., total crap advice. 

We have now moved on from thread 7 to thread 8 https://www.freejinger.org/topic/32495-gwen-shamblin-8-not-smart-enough-to-think/?do=findComment&comment=1787260

Today's devotional is about introspection, and Gwen has chosen a Bible quote that is not about introspection.

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by AmazonGrace

[AmazonGrace]

Go Saints! 

Fight like a war! Beat that other team! It's your last chance to win! Coach won't talk to you again if you lose today! 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Go Saints! 

Fight like a war! Beat that other team! It's your last chance to win! Coach won't talk to you again if you lose today! 

I thought God was supposed to be a Christian's heavenly Father.  No decent father wants his children to fight for his favor; they love all their kids for who they are, not how much they kiss their ass.

The Christianity I was taught as a kid bears almost no resemblance to the tenants of Gwen.