JinJer and Felicity 42: American Girl (grand)Duggar

[lumpentheologie]

2 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Joy is so scared of a c-section she will definitely try again.  

I wish someone would tell Joy that the best chance of avoiding a c-section is to do a VBAC in a hospital with real prenatal care, not attempting a home VBAC with Jill. 

[Rachel333]

I guess we still don't know the details, but it sounds like Jinger is the first Duggar daughter not to have major complications with her first birth.

It really is kind of fascinating that the daughters of a woman famous for giving birth 17 times seem to share a tendency to have difficulty with giving birth. I don't think anyone expected that.

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I guess we still don't know the details, but it sounds like Jinger is the first Duggar daughter not to have major complications with her first birth.

It really is kind of fascinating that the daughters of a woman famous for giving birth 17 times seem to share a tendency to have difficulty with giving birth. I don't think anyone expected that.

I recognize that this might be controversial, and some of it may well be genetic, but if the Duggar daughters got better prenatal care and guidance (which might result in smaller babies) they'd probably have fewer problems. Note, taking good care of yourself doesn't guarantee you'll have smaller babies, but it doesn't look like several of the daughters were very careful with what they ate, exercised, etc. and they had huge babies with ensuing problems due to lack of adequate birth care.

The Bateses at least seem to get better care and their *biggest* baby to date was less than 8 lbs at birth (Bradley at 7lbs 10oz), and he was born to Whitney, a Bates d-i-l. The smallest baby from a Duggar daughter or daughter-in-law was Garrett at 7lbs 8oz, born to Kendra who was the same size as Whitney's second child Kaci. Every single other Duggar baby was the bigger than every single other Bates baby.

Plus, aside from Jinger's daughter Felicity (deliberately born in a hospital) and Jessa's second baby Henry (born without complications) the Duggar daughter-in-laws have the smaller babies of the Duggarlings.

Duggar babies:

Gideon Martyn Forsyth: 10 lbs, 3 oz (22 inches long)
Spurgeon Elliot Seewald: 9 lbs, 11 oz (21.25 inches long) 
Israel David Dillard: 9 lbs, 10 oz (23 inches long)
Samuel Scott Dillard: 9 lbs, 10 oz (22 inches long)
Marcus Anthony Duggar: 9 lbs, 3 oz (21 inches long)
Mason Garrett Duggar: 9 lbs, 1 oz (22 inches long)
Henry Wilberforce Seewald: 8 lbs, 11 oz (21.75 inches long)  
Michael James Duggar: 8 lbs, 5 oz (21 inches long)
Felicity Nicole Vuolo: 8 lbs, 3 oz (19.5 inches long)
Mackynzie Renee Duggar: 8 lbs (19.5 inches long)
Meredith Grace Duggar: 7 lbs, 14 oz (20.5 inches long)
Garrett David Duggar: 7 lbs, 8 oz (20.5 inches long) 

Bates babies:

Bradley Gilvin Bates: 7lbs, 10oz (19 inches long)
Kaci Lynn Bates: 7 lbs, 8 oz (21.5 inches long)
Allie Jane Webster: 6 lbs, 11 oz (20 inches long)
Brooklyn Elise Paine: 6 lbs, 6 oz (not announced)
Lexi Mae Webster: 6 lbs, 2 oz (20 inches long)
Zoey Joy Webster: 6 lbs (19 inches long)
Charles "Carson" Stephen Paine IV: 6 lbs (19 inches long)
Everly Hope Paine: 5 lbs, 4 oz (18 inches long)

Source (L&E blogs)

[candygirl200413]

Do we know though why the duggar women still neglect prenatal care? I feel like they showed Michelle getting it before right?

[tabitha2]

It’s a suspicion that has basically become hard fact here  

They go to Doctors for everything else so it would not make any sense whatsoever that they don’t for something as important as Prenatal care does it?  Michelle had prenatal care so it’s not a family hang up for them.  

[finnlassie]

Back from my 9 day radio silence (scout camp woo! everyone forgot about my birthday there!), skimming the thread, feeling very confused...

Gotta stay relevant, gotta stay relevant... is it too late to agree with people about wanting to pin that nursery?

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

It’s a suspicion that has basically become hard fact here  

They go to Doctors for everything else so it would not make any sense whatsoever that they don’t for something as important as Prenatal care does it?  Michelle had prenatal care so it’s not a family hang up for them.  

Perhaps the second generation believe, like many other folks, that doctors are for sick people and that pregnancy, labor and delivery are natural processes that do not require medical intervention?

something changed between Michelle and her offspring. Maybe it’s a money issue-

[CarrotCake]

7 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

It’s a suspicion that has basically become hard fact here  

They go to Doctors for everything else so it would not make any sense whatsoever that they don’t for something as important as Prenatal care does it?  Michelle had prenatal care so it’s not a family hang up for them.  

Maybe it is also the more general trend of being more 'natural'.

I don't know how it is in the US but here I see also that homebirth, not vaccinating and longer breastfeeding gets more popular. Like the food trend where organic and vegan is now sooo trendy.

And because fundies like to be extreme they might overdo it.

[just_ordinary]

I actually don’t think we can read „Jinger had problems delivering“ from that spoiler text. It is a show, they always make up those stupid things to make it sound exciting or dramatic when in reality nothing happened. 

Many labours stop or progress slow and the possibility of a c-section is discussed ALONG with several other options to try out first. 

All I read is that they headed to the hospital in no rush- sounds like they planned delivering there all along. 

[Lisafer]

@metheglyn I always feel this need to defend the huge babies! Mine were 8lb14oz and 9lbs. No gestational diabetes and I had hyperemesis with my second child so my nutritional intake sucked. And I am a skinny person to start with.

It's just hard to tell why they have difficult births since we don't have any reliable information. There's so many factors.

[ViolaSebastian]

3 hours ago, finnlassie said:

Back from my 9 day radio silence (scout camp woo! everyone forgot about my birthday there!), skimming the thread, feeling very confused...

Gotta stay relevant, gotta stay relevant... is it too late to agree with people about wanting to pin that nursery?

Aww. This doesn't make up for it, but 

[justoneoftwo]

3 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Maybe it is also the more general trend of being more 'natural'.

I don't know how it is in the US but here I see also that homebirth, not vaccinating and longer breastfeeding gets more popular. Like the food trend where organic and vegan is now sooo trendy.

And because fundies like to be extreme they might overdo it.

I think this is it.  Being more natural is a huge thing with younger people.  No one used to talk about regretting not having natural birth, and my mom is still annoyed she accidentally had one.  I regret not having a natural birth and would try it differently next time.  Part of that is individual, but a lot of it is probably related to the generational change.

[Satan'sFortress]

15 hours ago, metheglyn said:

I recognize that this might be controversial, and some of it may well be genetic, but if the Duggar daughters got better prenatal care and guidance (which might result in smaller babies) they'd probably have fewer problems. Note, taking good care of yourself doesn't guarantee you'll have smaller babies, but it doesn't look like several of the daughters were very careful with what they ate, exercised, etc. and they had huge babies with ensuing problems due to lack of adequate birth care.

The Bateses at least seem to get better care and their *biggest* baby to date was less than 8 lbs at birth (Bradley at 7lbs 10oz), and he was born to Whitney, a Bates d-i-l. The smallest baby from a Duggar daughter or daughter-in-law was Garrett at 7lbs 8oz, born to Kendra who was the same size as Whitney's second child Kaci. Every single other Duggar baby was the bigger than every single other Bates baby.

Plus, aside from Jinger's daughter Felicity (deliberately born in a hospital) and Jessa's second baby Henry (born without complications) the Duggar daughter-in-laws have the smaller babies of the Duggarlings.

Duggar babies:

Gideon Martyn Forsyth: 10 lbs, 3 oz (22 inches long)
Spurgeon Elliot Seewald: 9 lbs, 11 oz (21.25 inches long) 
Israel David Dillard: 9 lbs, 10 oz (23 inches long)
Samuel Scott Dillard: 9 lbs, 10 oz (22 inches long)
Marcus Anthony Duggar: 9 lbs, 3 oz (21 inches long)
Mason Garrett Duggar: 9 lbs, 1 oz (22 inches long)
Henry Wilberforce Seewald: 8 lbs, 11 oz (21.75 inches long)  
Michael James Duggar: 8 lbs, 5 oz (21 inches long)
Felicity Nicole Vuolo: 8 lbs, 3 oz (19.5 inches long)
Mackynzie Renee Duggar: 8 lbs (19.5 inches long)
Meredith Grace Duggar: 7 lbs, 14 oz (20.5 inches long)
Garrett David Duggar: 7 lbs, 8 oz (20.5 inches long) 

Bates babies:

Bradley Gilvin Bates: 7lbs, 10oz (19 inches long)
Kaci Lynn Bates: 7 lbs, 8 oz (21.5 inches long)
Allie Jane Webster: 6 lbs, 11 oz (20 inches long)
Brooklyn Elise Paine: 6 lbs, 6 oz (not announced)
Lexi Mae Webster: 6 lbs, 2 oz (20 inches long)
Zoey Joy Webster: 6 lbs (19 inches long)
Charles "Carson" Stephen Paine IV: 6 lbs (19 inches long)
Everly Hope Paine: 5 lbs, 4 oz (18 inches long)

Source (L&E blogs)

I, along with @Lisafer feel the need to defend the bigger babies.  (Not picking on you, @metheglyn seems like most others here agree with you . . . and I know that you were said some may be genetic . . .)

Yes, some babies are big because mom ate too much or didn't get prenatal care, but some are just bigger than average.  That is what makes an average---some are bigger and some are smaller.  Yes, Gideon in particular was an extra big baby, but the 8-lbers really aren't that extraordinary.  The average baby is 7 lbs 8 oz and so anything over that is huge?  Can I say that the Bates' babies that were below 7 lbs 8 oz are undersized, too small, and that the moms mustn't have eaten enough or taken care of themselves to have has such small babies? 

It always feels so judge-y when someone has a baby that is more 7-1/2 lbs.  I don't get it.  My sister used to do the same thing to me because her cat was smaller than my cat.  My cat was normal sized, but somehow she was proud of the thought that she had a small cat.

Anecdotally, I am a tiny person who had an almost 9 lb baby.  I started out at about 110 lbs and gained just over 20 lbs during my pregnancy. I had excellent prenatal care. 

 

[fluffernutter]

I think Michelle had various types of births- both at home and in the hospital. I don't have a beef with home birth, but I have a huge issue with home births attended by cpm or lay midwives, which is the type of caretakers that I think the duggar daughters have been utilizing... maybe now that one of the sisters went the hospital route, and Kendra as well, they might start to rethink their choices. 

[Bad Wolf]

@finnlassie. Sorry they forgot your birthday. That's scouts for you. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I have never believed that Michelle pressured Jill, Jessa, and Joy to have homebirths. Homebirths have been increasingly a "thing" in both fundie and crunchy circles. Nothing wrong with that as long as you do it under competent medical supervision. 

[seraaa]

7 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Maybe it is also the more general trend of being more 'natural'.

I don't know how it is in the US but here I see also that homebirth, not vaccinating and longer breastfeeding gets more popular. Like the food trend where organic and vegan is now sooo trendy.

And because fundies like to be extreme they might overdo it.

I don't care about anyone's personal choices apart from this one. It's a public health hazard and I will never understand people who choose not to. Well, hypothetically I get, "we don't trust the medical profession". Which, fine, but it still drives me round the bend.

I mean, my hypothetical children wouldn't get ill, but god help the rest of them I guess

[Lisafer]

3 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Anecdotally, I am a tiny person who had an almost 9 lb baby.  I started out at about 110 lbs and gained just over 20 lbs during my pregnancy. I had excellent prenatal care. 

 

Did your baby have a huge cantaloupe head? My first one did. Jeez. It was enormous!  

[finnlassie]

6 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Aww. This doesn't make up for it, but 

It does, at least a little! And tbh I still consider Felicity to be a birthday present even though she was born 5 days before my birthday

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

@finnlassie. Sorry they forgot your birthday. That's scouts for you. 

I think I wouldn't feel as bothered as I do had another member from my troop had a birthday later during the camp, with an ordered cake, surprise celebration and everything...

[Screamapillar]

IMO one of the biggest signs of the incompetent care that the Duggar girls have been receiving with their attempted homebirths is that their midwives, in Jill and Joy's cases, apparently took a long time to realize their babies were breech. My baby just flipped breech at 34 weeks (seriously baby, WTF?) and when I went in for my most recent appointment my doctor was able to feel on my belly and identify what big lump was the head and what big lump was the butt. The breech was then confirmed via ultrasound.

I'm not an expert so I'm sure there are factors that can interfere with being able to accurately tell a baby's position (placenta placement, mother's torso size, weight, etc) but it doesn't seem too unreasonable to me to think that someone who has chosen a career as a midwife could at least be counted on to not have their clients endure grueling labors at home for hours, DAYS at a time, before being like, "Hey, maybe this baby is breech."

[luv2laugh]

Why didn’t they release a special clip of Jinger’s birth? They’ve done that for all the others. 

Also, Joy had a C-section, right? 

[lizzybee]

1 hour ago, seraaa said:

I don't care about anyone's personal choices apart from this one. It's a public health hazard and I will never understand people who choose not to. Well, hypothetically I get, "we don't trust the medical profession". Which, fine, but it still drives me round the bend.

I mean, my hypothetical children wouldn't get ill, but god help the rest of them I guess

Yes, it's a really big deal. I actually just got an email from my church a few minutes ago that the Dept of Health had contacted them about pertussis (whooping cough) being present in the nursery during VBS. My toddler is vaccinated but my newborn could have contracted it and it would have been very dangerous for him. Fortunately, they've been nowhere near the nursery lately... but yikes.  

[finnlassie]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

Why didn’t they release a special clip of Jinger’s birth? They’ve done that for all the others. 

Also, Joy had a C-section, right? 

Emergency c-section, yes.

[VBOY9977]

2 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Why didn’t they release a special clip of Jinger’s birth? They’ve done that for all the others. 

Also, Joy had a C-section, right? 

They’re releasing it aug 13th

[luv2laugh]

The married Bates daughters are beating the Duggars in terms of pregnancy. I think both Alyssa and Erin had 3 babies in 3 years, am I correct on this?