JinJer and Felicity 42: American Girl (grand)Duggar

[CarrotCake]

We have an old saying in Dutch that ugly babies become pretty when they grow up (talking about girls).

I guess they made that up to comfort moms of ugly baby girls.

[adidas]

On 8/1/2018 at 9:01 PM, finnlassie said:

Back from my 9 day radio silence (scout camp woo! everyone forgot about my birthday there!), skimming the thread, feeling very confused...

Gotta stay relevant, gotta stay relevant... is it too late to agree with people about wanting to pin that nursery?

Sorry they forgot your special day  

wishing you belated cheer!

[Rachel333]

I've seen some remarkably ugly babies who turned into gorgeous toddlers.

I was a really ugly baby myself, but I got a bit cuter with age.

(Spoilered because I really don't expect anyone to care about my baby pictures. )

Spoiler

 

[Gobbles]

2 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I was a really ugly baby myself, but I got a bit cuter with age.

According to the "nuns" (the protestant type of nun, no idea how they are called in English) at the hospital my mother was in I was a extremely beautiful baby. Based on the pictures of me I agree with that. Being a small c-section baby must have helped with that. (And I tend to find babies really ugly*.) So I got definitely not cuter or more beautiful with age. More of the opposite. I think I'm a pretty average person.

*My next dog will be a Chihuahua and the little Chihuahuas look horrible in my opinion. Once they are 12/14 weeks they start to look fine. Same with other breeds.

The so called "Kindchenschema" in German doesn't work for me. (Basically that young babies and animals have some facial features that makes people like them and care for them.)

[Rachel333]

Birds have the starkest cute/ugly baby divide to me.

One one hand you've got birds like these:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Then there are baby birds like these:

Spoiler

 

[LilMissMetaphor]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:43 PM, singsingsing said:

I worry about what genuinely believing that people you’re interacting with (especially on a regular basis) are going to burn in agony for eternity due to their own wickedness actually does to you and how you view and engage with the world. The interactions on the surface may be perfectly pleasant, but what is happening on a deeper level there? When you’ve got people split into two categories - people who will be with you in heaven for eternity because they’ve repented and been saved by the grace of God vs. people who have rejected God and will be punished in a lake of fire by Satan for eternity - how does that actually affect your worldview and how you relate to other human beings?

When I was still a Christian and struggling with the concept of hell, the idea that I was going to heaven and others I knew and loved were going to hell was absolutely horrendous. It was horrifying, devastating, and every fibre of my being just screamed that it was WRONG. I guess if you’re indoctrinated into this belief from the time you’re young it might be different, but the fact that certain people might like me and enjoy a friendship with me, smile and laugh with me, support me and care for me, and all along be thinking, “Too bad she’s in for an eternity of agonizing torture when she dies” is incredibly creepy to me.

Just IMO, this is precisely why believers should leave the dividing up to the higher power, rather than, Jill-style, to take it upon themselves to divide people in the "she's going to burn" and "I'll see that one later" camps.

For all the "oh shit, I love this person but they're not saved" thoughts, there's also quite a few, "Fucking seriously, that bitch is gonna be in heaven too, how's this supposed to work out?!"

[llg1234]

6 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

We have an old saying in Dutch that ugly babies become pretty when they grow up (talking about girls).

I guess they made that up to comfort moms of ugly baby girls.

I was an ugly baby and I turned out to pretty ok looking 

[Carm_88]

The Duggar women don't use actual midwives. I think that's the biggest issue with their births. Most of them seem to use lay midwives, who may be able to deal with some issues but generally don't have the training that nurse midwives do. There's always a chance that something will go wrong with giving birth, it has never stopped being dangerous. However, if you're in a hospital with bad doctors or nurses who make mistakes, you have the option to sue for malpractice. If you look at the case of Jill's teacher Venessa, she nearly killed a baby and all that happened was that she lost her license in Arkansas, she's still delivering babes in Oklahoma. 

The main difference between the Bates and Duggars may be prenatal care. 

[metheglyn]

On 8/1/2018 at 11:55 AM, Satan'sFortress said:

I, along with @Lisafer feel the need to defend the bigger babies.  (Not picking on you, @metheglyn seems like most others here agree with you . . . and I know that you were said some may be genetic . . .)

Yes, some babies are big because mom ate too much or didn't get prenatal care, but some are just bigger than average.  That is what makes an average---some are bigger and some are smaller.  Yes, Gideon in particular was an extra big baby, but the 8-lbers really aren't that extraordinary.  The average baby is 7 lbs 8 oz and so anything over that is huge?  Can I say that the Bates' babies that were below 7 lbs 8 oz are undersized, too small, and that the moms mustn't have eaten enough or taken care of themselves to have has such small babies? 

It always feels so judge-y when someone has a baby that is more 7-1/2 lbs.  I don't get it.  My sister used to do the same thing to me because her cat was smaller than my cat.  My cat was normal sized, but somehow she was proud of the thought that she had a small cat.

Anecdotally, I am a tiny person who had an almost 9 lb baby.  I started out at about 110 lbs and gained just over 20 lbs during my pregnancy. I had excellent prenatal care. 

 

Oh, I have no major concerns with huge babies when mothers are getting adequate pre-natal and birth care. My issue is most specifically that not only do they have huge babies, but they don't seem to be aware, prior to the birth itself, that they are *having* huge babies and that those huge babies can lead to complications. In Joy's birth episode Michelle specifically guesses that Gideon's going to be in the 8lb range and the others agree with her. She was off by at least 2 lbs and no one seemed to have any idea!

Joy was enormous and presumably it should have been obvious to any qualified medical provider that her baby was going to be big and might need help being born (or at least would need observation). Yet Joy was blithely planning on a homebirth for her son, and then it took them 20 hours to figure out that it wasn't going to happen? At that size how could he possibly have changed positions recently enough for them not to realize he was not lying in a position conducive to natural birth? THIS is what I have problems with.

[Pecansforeveryone]

@metheglyn, thank you for posting. For me, it isn't "Homebirth are bad" or anything like that. It's that some of them seem unaware of real possibility of complicating factors like their future infants size. Bigger babies do increase the possibility of c-sections for sure. No shame in that. I think that's the other big issue is there seems to be some unspoken judgement among the Duggar daughters against c-sections. There really shouldn't be. Birth shouldn't be a competition but a celebration. Having a cult-like religion that center's around fertility is a really bad idea all the way around. 

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

We have an old saying in Dutch that ugly babies become pretty when they grow up (talking about girls).

I guess they made that up to comfort moms of ugly baby girls.

When my Godson was born, he was one of the most stunningly gorgeous babies I had ever seen. At that time, his second cousin was born and she was not the prettiest baby. She took after her dad's side where the women were what one would call "Handsome". When they were together it was apparent which was the better looking baby.

30+ years later, he is still stunningly good looking and while she is  attractive but still retained that "Handsome" woman look.  

[tabitha2]

Every other female on my mothers side including myself is short or stout round and brown and are very pretty if they try hard average if not. My second oldest cousin hit the recessive jackpot.. very tall blonde skinny blue eyed and was an adorable toddler. I was ugly kid.Now 40 years on from the neck down she looks amazing... her face and hair is is best not talked about . Cause damn.

[feministxtian]

I gave birth to the world's ugliest baby 28 years ago. I mean, the kid was BUTT UGLY, I'm talking FUGLY! He was long and skinny, had a full head of hair, the biggest eyes you've ever seen in a newborn and bruises on his forehead. I mean...we're talking the antithesis to the Gerber baby. Now, he's gorgeous. I know he's my kid and all but damn...he makes girls lose their marbles. 

#1 son looked like a fuzzy football. Short and round with just fuzz on his head. #1 daughter was gorgeous at birth...and is still a stunningly beautiful woman. 

[SassyPants]

28 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I gave birth to the world's ugliest baby 28 years ago. I mean, the kid was BUTT UGLY, I'm talking FUGLY! He was long and skinny, had a full head of hair, the biggest eyes you've ever seen in a newborn and bruises on his forehead. I mean...we're talking the antithesis to the Gerber baby. Now, he's gorgeous. I know he's my kid and all but damn...he makes girls lose their marbles. 

#1 son looked like a fuzzy football. Short and round with just fuzz on his head. #1 daughter was gorgeous at birth...and is still a stunningly beautiful woman. 

When my soon to be 28 YO son was a baby, I used to cover his car seat with a blanket. He is now a very handsome man!

[cascarones]

15 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

We have an old saying in Dutch that ugly babies become pretty when they grow up (talking about girls).

I'm literally reading "The Ugly Wife Is a Treasure at Home: True Stories of Love and Marriage in Communist China". It's a saying there! Not to do with babies, but it is interesting how cultures have so many sayings acknowledging looks and turning them into positives.

[SapphireSlytherin]

The first words I uttered in the delivery room? "OMG - she's so ugly!"

She's a stunner now, though!  

[BlessaYourHeart]

Myself and two of my second cousins (all born over a 6 year span) were identical as babies and beautiful. We’ve all grown up still looking unnaturally alike, but we’re all just really average looking now  

I look back at baby pictures of myself and think what the hell happened. I was a beautiful child (by western standards) and then when I hit puberty it all seemed to have went down hill . 

On the other hand, when my god daughter was born she looked like an alien. But she’s now 10 and is the most beautiful child with thick red hair and piercing blue eyes. She really is going to break hearts. 

[HideousGreenShirt]

I was a very pretty baby, but evidently  would pull ridiculous scowly faces. So much so that little old ladies poking their heads into my stroller to coo over the baby would recoil in shock. Always been a mischief maker I guess! 

Went through an extended awkward phase from about 10-18 and after growing into my features and hard work I'm generically attractive. 

A Polish colleague of mine told me there was a saying that girl babies take away the mothers' beauty [when pregnant], implying that women carrying girls tend to get larger/puffer faces. I've found that to be mostly accurate for all the people I've known who had kids. 

[justmy2cents]

18 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

A Polish colleague of mine told me there was a saying that girl babies take away the mothers' beauty [when pregnant], implying that women carrying girls tend to get larger/puffer faces. I've found that to be mostly accurate for all the people I've known who had kids. 

I never looked as pretty as I did when I was pregnant- with a girl! I lost weight and my face actually got thinner (which in my case was a good thing.)

i was not a pretty baby but am pretty ok now. My daughter too. Not a beautiful newborn, but she sure is pretty now. 

[tabitha2]

On a more serious note being a not so pretty girl will be very hard in a culture that puts a premium on a woman’s beauty  in both body and face. If they are still with VF/ATI set at that time she might start to court it won’t matter how smart or creative or talented she is if she also is not feminine, delicate and attractive. That to them is a females greatest asset. 

 

[ElephantPatronus]

I’ve seen all sides of the whole what the baby looks like at birth vs later. My oldest niece was the most gorgeous baby I’ve ever seen-she’s now 21 and a very pretty young woman. Her younger sister-kinda odd looking at birth, a cute toddler, and is now a stunningly beautiful 17yo. I was also not the most attractive baby. Now, I’m considered by most people as very pretty. 

I guess my point is-we’ll have to wait and see what Felicity looks like later. My bet is on her growing into her looks. She’s got attractive parents-and let’s face it, while the Duggars are a lot of things, physically ugly is generally not one of them.

[patsymae]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:11 AM, Carm_88 said:

I'm glad that Jinger has help in Jessa and Michelle. Good to have people to ask questions to in the first days with a new baby. Michelle does love newborns. There's a lot going on in that family right now I wonder how many 2019 pregnancies there will be? 

If me and my friends are anything to go by, we didn't need help with the baby so much as the other stuff-laundry, wash the kitchen floor, cook. Michelle can't do any of those things.

[potato]

I'd like to think that I was a pretty cute baby, but now I'm a potato.

[feministxtian]

I was an amazingly unattractive newborn...haven't gotten much better in the ensuing 54 years 

[mango_fandango]

I was ok-looking as a baby, I guess. I had no hair for ages, like I was about 14/15 months before I got anything much. If you look through photo albums that my granddad has (my parents aren’t organised enough to have our photos in albums ) it’s odd to look at the photos cos it’s like bald, bald, bald, POOF red hair.