JinJer and Felicity 42: American Girl (grand)Duggar

[Satan'sFortress]

@Buzzard That video was very interesting--thank you for posting it.  I lurked here, then joined because I am truly fascinated with fundies of all stripes.  And yes, sometimes I do get caught up in the cute baby pictures, etc. and forget about the the reason I am here---things like this video.  It make me so disgusted, and gave my already strong atheism a big shot in the arm.  The gall of these people handing out their tracts---"kids love it"----to a Hindu man, no less. 

I need these reminders.

[nst]

41 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I don’t think we are all on the same planet today.

i never am 

[AliceInFundyland]

3 minutes ago, nst said:

i never am 

That avatar continues to be one of my favorite moments in fundie horror. Let’s do something cool and keep our first kiss private....and then go prove to the world we are master fornicators.

[TatiFish9]

In the 10+ I've been on message boards, nothing has really changed. Topics come and topics go, but the people remain the same.

The thing that is particularly interesting about Fj is that one day you could be laughing it up in one thread snarking and speculating with particular posters like it aint no problem and the next week, you're doing the same EXACT thing, but unknowingly (step on someone's life triggers or stroke their pet fundie the wrong way) and you're suddenly caught up in a crap load of verbal diarrhea. 

Jinger is top 5 overall pet fundie and name sake of this site. She is a Snarky Duggar golden child who receives a lot of fan projection for this very reason.

 I am Jinger neutral. I don't think too much on her except to consider just how far yuppie contemporary Christian she and Jeremy will go. However, she should not be exempt from criticism (BEC or otherwise ) if everyone else is getting it. 

We dont know much about any of these people except what is branded, but one thing that is telling about Jinger is that she was extremely talented in the piano and expressed specific interest in photography. Yet, she has done not a damn thing with either since leaving the ranch. No one comes at Jinger for being ridiculous in this way. 

However, Jill facing more strenuous circumstances after leaving, at least tried to continue to be a lay midwife assistant or whatever she really is, yet she is spat upon constantly. Something about that has rubbed me the wrong way for a long time.

Society has a way of subversively showing its head in even the most liberal of conversations. Jill has the traits of a strong, career minded woman even if she is goofy and emotional. Because of that, she is a threat. Suddenly, she needs to be torn down to smithereens. And before anyone says, Jill was being called a fake midwife long before Derick started acting up on the 'nets.

J/S 

[Carm_88]

I think Jinger and Jeremy do so much good social media that people think that they are going elsewhere. They are good at social media. It's all coffee, books, and travelling. Now it will be their little girl and they're totally normal. I look it and I fall into that trap too. Then I remember that Jeremy doesn't like me because I'm Catholic. He thinks I'm going to hell, just like Derick Dillard, he would try to convert me to having a personal relationship with Jesus. Now besides being better at social media, how does that make Jeremy any better than Derick? 

Could Jeremy swing and suddenly become a soccer announcer or coach and they move completely away from fundamentalism? Sure. It could happen. I could also win the lottery. I don't play the lottery, I know the percentages are that you are more likely to die on the way to buy a lottery ticket, I'm that unlucky. 

I wander into every thread on here knowing that at some point, if they continue to put their lives out there, I will be reminded of their beliefs. They can't cover it forever. They have the ability to change, they're adults, but they choose not to.  

[Greendoor]

I agree with you Tati.  And John David Duggar is a fundie man waiting to make more fundies with a girl who is surely as fundie as he is or they would not be getting hitched.

 

[Kailash]

Not excusing anything, but the adult Duggars don’t have much incentive to change their beliefs. It would be much different if they weren’t making the amount of money that they currently are. If they were at or below the poverty line they might think about upsetting the apple cart. I think as long as they are financially comfortable their beliefs will remain basically the same. 

[singsingsing]

16 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

We dont know much about any of these people except what is branded, but one thing that is telling about Jinger is that she was extremely talented in the piano and expressed specific interest in photography. Yet, she has done not a damn thing with either since leaving the ranch. No one comes at Jinger for being ridiculous in this way. 

However, Jill facing more strenuous circumstances after leaving, at least tried to continue to be a lay midwife assistant or whatever she really is, yet she is spat upon constantly. Something about that has rubbed me the wrong way for a long time.

Society has a way of subversively showing its head in even the most liberal of conversations. Jill has the traits of a strong, career minded woman even if she is goofy and emotional. Because of that, she is a threat. Suddenly, she needs to be torn down to smithereens. And before anyone says, Jill was being called a fake midwife long before Derick started acting up on the 'nets.

Just a few points: Jinger does get criticized for these things. Fairly regularly, actually. But I would also point out what you said yourself: we don't know much about any of these people except what is branded. So we actually don't know whether Jinger has continued playing the piano and doing photography. We only know what she chooses to show us. She could very well be pursuing both of those things and more, and just not choosing to share that with the world. We don't know.

With regards to Jill, I think most of the flack she catches is because her 'fake midwifery' quite literally puts lives in danger. She put her own life and her baby's life in danger attempting to apply her midwifery 'skills' during her first labour, and she puts other lives in danger when she's practicing with other women. As far as I can tell, Jinger's piano playing and photography (or lack thereof) is not putting anyone's health or well-being at risk. I do see a fair bit of sexism here (and it drives me insane), but I don't think the criticism of Jill is a particularly good example of it. A good example would actually be the way Jessa was criticized around 2-3 years ago, before she became FJ's pet fundie.

[AliceInFundyland]

Seems to me we have three? broad categories that all get muddled together.

Beliefs— Everyone sucks.

Personalities—Some are better than others. Some have better social media game than others. You can also have a good personality and horrid beliefs.

Parenting skills— Here the beliefs can fuck things up. Child training, bad homeschooling. Also, we can see inept parenting as portayed via social media like the Dillards. But can you still parent well with the shit beliefs..? Not the homeschool or training, but all the other stuff.

I agree that currently Jeremy is not better than Derrick. But could he be a better Dad? Ifhe’s teaching hate then I suppose not really. I’m just trying to logic through some of our discussion.

Practical matters could be handled better. Better meals. Better bedtimes. Strollers. Carseats, etc. That would be indicative of better parenting. I’m more inclined to expect that from Abbie or maybe Kendra. 

@nelliebelle1197 said we only know what we see. It is sad. In part because we’ve seen them for so long. We project. Nurseries shouldn’t be this contentious. I don’t think it’s funny though. @SilverBeachhas made a thread about downvotes in Communty Discussion that warrants a look. (hope you don’t mind me mentioning it)

 

[Jkaeekjj]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

<snip>

Examples:

Formerly hard-core Catholic

Formerly rabid-pro life

Formerly registered Republican, Rush Limbaugh & G Gordon Liddy fan

Formerly rabid pro-SAHM and anti-working mothers

The list goes on. So, when people talk shit about the 2nd gen Duggars, all I can say is the story isn't over yet. 

 

I think we are soul sisters...I was the exact same way about 15 years ago. Independent baptist church goer (there was a thread about the Church I used to attend on here a little while back) SAHM wanna be (to the detriment of our financial health) fiercely pro life, etc. In fact, one year my husband bought me the book “The Submissive Wife” for a present. 

Seriously. 

He got his M Div, and we both became fiercely liberal. Equal rights for everyone, pro choice, down with the patriarchy, etc. I make the big bucks in the family (and have the “serious” career) and he stayed home with our littles. I’m back in school so the house and kids are pretty much handled by him. He works for the Rescue Mission to minister to “the least of these”, while elders are my passion. Polar opposite from where I was.  And it suits my skirt just fine. 

As for the that book, it obviously didn’t make an impression since I have no problem telling him to fuck right off. But that’s how we roll, so it works for us. 

 

[tabitha2]

The great Nursery war of 2018 Will go down in FJ history along side the legendary Peanut butter feuds. 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

The great Nursery war of 2018 Will go down in FJ history along side the legendary Peanut butter feuds. 

Oh no! Do not bring that one up again! I almost had a heart attack when I thought the shoes on vs. off in the house debate might be gearing up for another round! 

[Percy]

I blame the blood moon last night. 

[Audrey2]

18 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Oh no! Do not bring that one up again! I almost had a heart attack when I thought the shoes on vs. off in the house debate might be gearing up for another round! 

So are you okay with duvets vs comforters/bedspreads/blankets?

[nst]

27 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

The great Nursery war of 2018 Will go down in FJ history along side the legendary Peanut butter feuds. 

and don't forget the wait for one Israel David Dillard 

and then the weddings of Jessa and Jill in the same week 

 

[tabitha2]

22 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

So are you okay with duvets vs comforters/bedspreads/blankets?

If I say I plan to get my future babies ears pierced then go home slip my shoes off and give her a peanut butter sandwich before laying her down to nap on a comforter( In a “South Western” nursery of course) will it trigger the FJ rapture I wonder... 

[Mama Mia]

What I am genuinely curious about , with all of them, is how could anyone tell if there beliefs became more mainstream? Because I was looking it up and it seems they ARE mainstream / in the majority for Arkansas ? More extreme with the courting, quiverful, etc —- but regarding abortion or same sex marriage or level of religiousity —- they seem to be mainstream for the place they live ( not Jinger, as much, but still - Texas ) 

It seems like unless they do a big dramatic break - if they just drift away - wouldn’t there views just mellow a little, but not likely drastically change? 

7 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

If I say I plan to get my future babies ears pierced then go home slip my shoes off and give her a peanut butter sandwich before laying her down to nap on a comforter( In a “South Western” nursery of course) will it trigger the FJ rapture I wonder... 

I literally would have done all those things. But the nursery would be pink and frilly 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Oh no! Do not bring that one up again! I almost had a heart attack when I thought the shoes on vs. off in the house debate might be gearing up for another round! 

Someone is now banned so THAT won't happen. Neither will the bath vs shower nightmare of 2013.

[justmy2cents]

13 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Neither will the bath vs shower nightmare of 2013.

Do tell.  That was before my time.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just now, justmy2cents said:

Do tell.  That was before my time.

It was Latraviata, who was always weird but went over the deep end and got banned after years and years on here- she showed her racism and bigotry in the end.

Lat was very pro-indoor-shoe removal and shower. She had minor wars more than once over what uncultured trash people who wore shoes indoors were and over the dirty terrible people who sat in their own filth in the tub.  She was rather elderly, overeducated and strange. She was Dutch?? if I recall. She lost one son to cancer and the other was a terribly doted over single doctor living in England. It was easy to verify she was real because she was so open with info. She used to post a lot on Zsucifer and the Maxwells. She and Zsucifer sparred on Zsucifer's blog more than once - Z even said Lat could not really be mourning her son because she was an atheist.

Her little wars were actually worse than the peanut butter war. That one flared up and was mostly over; and we usually kept the topic of peanut butter under control. But Lat would just spout off about the shoe thing whenever she saw fit and I remember shower wars followed soon after.

I am pro-bath and moderately anti-shoe, but I won't judge you for taking a shower....

[AliceInFundyland]

3 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It was Latraviata, who was always weird but went over the deep end and got banned after years and years on here- she showed her racism and bigotry in the end.

Lat was very pro-indoor-shoe removal and shower. She had minor wars more than once over what uncultured trash people who wore shoes indoors were and over the dirty terrible people who sat in their own filth in the tub.  She was rather elderly, overeducated and strange. She was Dutch?? if I recall. She lost one son to cancer and the other was a terribly doted over single doctor living in England. It was easy to verify she was real because she was so open with info. She used to post a lot on Zsucifer and the Maxwells. She and Zsucifer sparred on Zsucifer's blog more than once - Z even said Lat could not really be mourning her son because she was an atheist.

Her little wars were actually worse than the peanut butter war. That one flared up and was mostly over; and we usually kept the topic of peanut butter under control. But Lat would just spout off about the shoe thing whenever she saw fit and I remember shower wars followed soon after.

I am pro-bath and moderately anti-shoe, but I won't judge you for taking a shower....

Education and being relatively well-spoken keeps people around longer. Weirdness always comes out. Inconsistency always comes out. Racism always comes out.

[justmy2cents]

Thank you for the synopsis  @nelliebelle1197.  I love baths but haven't had one since I had my daughter. Seems like a luxury now, sigh. I go barefoot in my own home (and braless too, lol) but don't have strong feelings about whether one should or should not. When visiting others I take my cue from them.  I'm afraid I wouldn't have been too helpful in those discussions.

[jqlgoblue]

5 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

While I agree that Ben is more progressive than some of his relatives in terms of race and politics, it's important to remember he still believes if you are Catholic or Mormon you're not a 'real' Christian.  And God help you if you're LGBTQ, belong to another faith group, or have no faith at all.  

Ben's beliefs are sadly mainstream in even well educated well off America. I grew up in in a very large suburb of Chicago and all of that stuff was run of the mill. I think now, people my age (mid-30's) are a bit more understanding of some of the people LGBTQ represents, but probably not all... and that'd be about it in terms of progress. 

On the flip side, I don't judge Jinger for not keeping up with her hobbies. She seems happy with her travels w/ Jeremy and it was only 1.5 years before she had a kid and now she'll be very busy. I'm one of those people who is single, works a ton, and never sits still but when I've been unemployed I've been so happy doing nothing. I could do nothing except hang out w/ a husband and go to the gym for 1.5 years so easily.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

How do we know that VC left the building?

VC is @VeganCupcake  or @VelociRaptureDid the both leave? I saw VR's profile was deactived, and I do hope it is only temporary, she's ways such a thoughtful poster and rarely get "bent out of shape". I think she's about 20 years younger than I am and seems to have a much calmer persona than I do.  I would say it seem silly to founce because of some heated topics, but then i realize when a website or anything, takes over your day and makes you feel angry and starts turning you into something or someone you don't recognize, walking is away is the best solution.  I've done that before, though I'm not eloquent enough to write a reasonable logical "flounce note when I'm riled up from shit I'm reading on line. Its sad that we can't all agree to disagree and live in harmony, but that isn't the way the world works. I hope VelociRapture can get her back to her happy place and come back to play with us again.  

As for VegnCupcake, I don't know much about her as I've only read a handful of her posts here and there but I hope she's still here as well. 

[victoriasponge]

7 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Parenting skills— Here the beliefs can fuck things up. Child training, bad homeschooling. Also, we can see inept parenting as portayed via social media like the Dillards. But can you still parent well with the shit beliefs..? Not the homeschool or training, but all the other stuff.

This might not be an opinion other people agree with, but I’m inclined to say no. An essential part of the belief system is removing choice from children, even if you don’t ‘train’ them abusively to follow your rules. Even if a Grandduggar wasn’t homeschooled or blanket trained, I cannot believe they would be raised with a childhood comprising of any real choice. They will associate with those who agree with them (broadly) on religion and (broadly) on politics. They will learn only about their own kind and a very biased, warped perception of anyone else. They are not being raised to be productive or conducive to the kind of society I think everyone deserves - one where people are equal as far as possible, and where nobody is granted more rights than an another for something like religion. 

Can anyone here truly believe that any of the Duggar babies will be raised to believe in freedom of religion? Do you believe they’ll ever even talk to an atheist or a Muslim? (Except in cases of ‘evangelising’) Even Ben who has expressed the most politically diverse opinion in my eyes is on Twitter purposefully misunderstanding the non-Christian worldview (in a theological discussion he said without a belief in the Christian God, one needs an alternate explanation for Biblical miracles, seemingly without accepting a non-Christian is highly unlikely to believe those miracles happened at all and no alternate explanation is needed) 

Now I fully believe many of the new Duggar parents will provide well for their children’s basic needs, but we don’t just raise a child for their basic needs, we do it for so much more - and they have been raised to see procreation as an army for God. Unless they leave (and Jeremy is so batshit Jinger definitely hasn’t) I cannot say they parent well.