Dillards 41: Chocolate, Cheese, and Other Things More Interesting

[JillyO]

25 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Please note, I was specifically comparing Jill to her sisters. Not the rest of us. There is a big difference there - her sisters had no outside interests that they either wanted to pursue or were allowed to pursue. As such, compared to her sisters, Jill would have had less time to spend hanging out or making friends.

I don't think we can actually judge how many friends outside the family any of these women really have. But I think the quote is kind of a weird argument. Pursuing her midwifery really would have given Jill more, rather than fewer, opportunities to make non-family friends. She spent way more time outside of her immediate family circle than the others. So if she really does have fewer friends than her sisters (which I don't think we can determine either way), I'd say it's in spite of her midwifery, not because of it.

On a side note, I really had the impression that Jill was pretty good friends with Venessa once. Obviously, there was some kind of falling out with her, likely connected to the child who died and Venessa's losing her license (thus screwing Jill over).

[Ms Lucy Fur]

23 hours ago, bananabread said:

I guess Jill is embracing being a "minister's wife"...??

OMFG he's not a minister, Jill. He's not a missionary either and neither are you. 

[sunshine]

Now, I must google this. Ha

[VelociRapture]

24 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I don't think we can actually judge how many friends outside the family any of these women really have. But I think the quote is kind of a weird argument. Pursuing her midwifery really would have given Jill more, rather than fewer, opportunities to make non-family friends. She spent way more time outside of her immediate family circle than the others. So if she really does have fewer friends than her sisters (which I don't think we can determine either way), I'd say it's in spite of her midwifery, not because of it.

On a side note, I really had the impression that Jill was pretty good friends with Venessa once. Obviously, there was some kind of falling out with her, likely connected to the child who died and Venessa's losing her license (thus screwing Jill over).

I'm not doing a great job at making my point clear. I swear I'm trying.

The Midwifery could have hindered friendships with people within the groups her parents approved of - people her sisters may have had an easier time connecting with since they don't appear to have been studying. 

I think it's possible that Jill's sisters simply had an easier time clicking with the people in the circles their parents approved then Jill may have. I think it's completely possible Jill made friends through Midwifery since it was a common interest they all had and I do agree that I think she seemed close with Venessa. As others pointed out though her long distance relationship with Derick, marriage, parenthood, and the missioncation could all have played a significant role in whether or not she was able to continue cultivating those relationships. And as you said, it's absolutely possible that Jill had a falling out with Venessa due to the botched birth (which is a separate and unique circumstance.)

I also agree no one can know what their friendships are actually like without knowing any of these women. 

[Bad Wolf]

Didn't Jill say she was a CPM when they were listening to the heartbeat in CA? I thought she didn't complete her training. Don't want to watch it again, so would appreciate it if someone else remembers.

Also, what about some pics of the kids? Have to admit, Spurge and Henry make me smile. Let's see Izzy and Sammy.

I hate my Kindle. It turns Jill into Kill every time. 

[sunshine]

Now, that you mentioned it, I did not realize that Jill did not have "friends" in her wedding party. I know the family pushed that their sisters and brothers will be your friends; but still, her family had multiple people who visited their home and it does not seem anyone truly connected with her. 

I get it, though. I have limited number of friends, mostly because I like being alone and reading a book.

[Feministe9000]

32 minutes ago, Ms Lucy Fur said:

OMFG he's not a minister, Jill. He's not a missionary either and neither are you. 

also LOL at the comment saying "this would be a good gift for Tori Bates"

 

 

BURRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Jill, stop!! Your husband is not a minister, and has never been one.

It's getting a liiiiiiitle embarrassing. Like really, just post some cute pics of your kids like Jessa does!! Jeez! 
 

[Georgiana]

16 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think it's possible that Jill's sisters simply had an easier time clicking with the people in the circles their parents approved then Jill may have. I think it's completely possible Jill made friends through Midwifery since it was a common interest they all had and I do agree that I think she seemed close with Venessa. As others pointed out though her long distance relationship with Derick, marriage, parenthood, and the missioncation could all have played a significant role in whether or not she was able to continue cultivating those relationships. And as you said, it's absolutely possible that Jill had a falling out with Venessa due to the botched birth (which is a separate and unique circumstance.) 

To go off this, and while I agree that we cannot know the intricacies of their personal lives, on the show at least, Jill also appeared to go through what I call a "high horse phase".  My friend went through one as well.  YOUR life is going perfectly, so you kind of get caught up in yourself and how RIGHT you are.  Jill had for a time the perfect life goal/aspiration, the perfect boyfriend, the perfect most romantic courtship, the perfect wedding, and the perfect honeymoon baby.  It did seem to go to her head a bit, and that is something that can SERIOUSLY damage your relationships, especially if you have friends that are struggling or not doing as "perfectly".  It's very, very easy to be unintentionally insulting in that phase, and to imply that the REASON others are struggling while you are not is because you are BETTER than they are.  

My friend went through this phase, and 5 years out, we are JUST starting to repair the damage it did to our relationship.  She hit me at a low time with some holier than thou nonsense, and man, that hurt.  And when it turned out that she wasn't so holy after all, I wasn't quite ready to forget.  And I don't really even CARE about marriage that much.  I can't imagine how much that would hurt if I felt marriage was my only purpose in life.  

She might be different in person, but if she lorded her circumstances over her friends, even unintentionally, her relationships might need repair now before they become close again.  

[Feministe9000]

1 minute ago, Georgiana said:

To go off this, and while I agree that we cannot know the intricacies of their personal lives, on the show at least, Jill also appeared to go through what I call a "high horse phase".  My friend went through one as well.  YOUR life is going perfectly, so you kind of get caught up in yourself and how RIGHT you are.  Jill had for a time the perfect life goal/aspiration, the perfect boyfriend, the perfect most romantic courtship, the perfect wedding, and the perfect honeymoon baby.  It did seem to go to her head a bit, and that is something that can SERIOUSLY damage your relationships, especially if you have friends that are struggling or not doing as "perfectly".  It's very, very easy to be unintentionally insulting in that phase, and to imply that the REASON others are struggling while you are not is because you are BETTER than they are.  

My friend went through this phase, and 5 years out, we are JUST starting to repair the damage it did to our relationship.  She hit me at a low time with some holier than thou nonsense, and man, that hurt.  And when it turned out that she wasn't so holy after all, I wasn't quite ready to forget.  And I don't really even CARE about marriage that much.  I can't imagine how much that would hurt if I felt marriage was my only purpose in life.  

She might be different in person, but if she lorded her circumstances over her friends, even unintentionally, her relationships might need repair now before they become close again.  

Also coupled with the fact that her bit of "marriage advice" to Joy if I recall correctly was along the lines of: "sometimes other people in your life will get jealous, but remember your husband is your best friend and that's just the way it is...." UGHHHHHHHH

soooo yep! no wonder, she and Derick isolated themselves. And Derick isolated Jill, even more than she already was in the world.

 

[JordynDarby5]

3 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

She might be different in person, but if she lorded her circumstances over her friends, even unintentionally, her relationships might need repair now before they become close again.  

I could see Jill doing that and it would be on purpose. She seems the type that would do that on purpose. Maybe she does have friends and we don't see them. That's a possibility but I also wouldn't be surprise if she doesn't have friends. Just from what I've seen from her on the show. The way she talked over her sisters and would correct their answers I don't imagine many girls would stick around if she did that with her friends too. Or listen to her being a know it all. She also seems like the type that has to have attention on her all the time. Or being the type to drop her friendships the moment she started courting. I can see the other sisters having friends. Jana and Michael make a lot of sense they seem really similar and are the oldest daughters in their family, I could see Jessa fundie gossiping with her friends, Joy got to spend more time as a kid then her sisters so I could see her making friends.      

[doubleT]

3 hours ago, karen77 said:

She's the only one that hasn't been asked to be in someone else's wedding (at this point, and of the older 5)

IIRC, when Derick's brother Dan got married, Jill was a bridesmaid (or bridesmatron) for his bride.  I think Derick, Jill and Izzy were all in the wedding.  Not sure if Dan's wife asked Jill to be in the wedding because they are friends or because Jill is "family", but she was in the wedding.  In fact, a picture of Jill from that wedding was the prettiest I have ever seen her, including her own wedding day.  

[lomo6]

34 minutes ago, doubleT said:

IIRC, when Derick's brother Dan got married, Jill was a bridesmaid (or bridesmatron) for his bride.  I think Derick, Jill and Izzy were all in the wedding.  Not sure if Dan's wife asked Jill to be in the wedding because they are friends or because Jill is "family", but she was in the wedding.  In fact, a picture of Jill from that wedding was the prettiest I have ever seen her, including her own wedding day.  

It's pretty common to feel pressured into making your SIL a bridesmaid...not saying this is the case for Jill and Dan's wife, but I don't think we can tell anything either way from that choice. 

When people start criticizing the Dillards, it's often said here at FJ that the other couples have equally horrendous beliefs, but that they're simply better at hiding it. That seems pretty accurate, but knowing how to conceal your annoying traits and make your objectionable beliefs more palatable is part of how most people make friends - right? For example, I have had friends with all kinds of dietary restrictions (whether because of allergies, weight loss, animal welfare, or general health), some of whom are super chill about it and others of whom are obnoxious and condescending about their supposedly superior ways. Guess which ones I'm inclined to hang out with more? And, if we're talking about evangelism here - guess which group of people might make me slightly more curious about their choices? 

Most people don't select their friends based on perfect ideological alignment (though having shared beliefs helps), but on how they get along on an interpersonal level. In professional contexts, this is called soft skills. In many fields, having solid but not amazing technical abilities and a likable personality will get you farther than being a genius who is rude and arrogant (myths about Steve Jobs notwithstanding). 

Anyhow, in the case of Jill, I can imagine that her sisters, friends, or acquaintances who chose to live differently than she does will know pretty quickly how she feels about it, even if she doesn't directly say anything. Jessa might think the same thing about someone wearing pants or making out before her wedding day, but I think she'd be discerning on whether or not to express that.

Derick clearly doesn't have that "discretion" and "pick your battles" trait. And Jill - by the way she talked over and corrected her sisters during earlier THs as @JordynDarby5 mentioned - doesn't seem to be so great at it either. 

[JoyJoy]

Doesn't Jill have a friend named Rachel? She was a midwife or wanted to be a midwife? She visited Jill in Central America. There were some friend as at Sam's sprinkle. Also, Jill has posted photos of friends on her IG.

Rachel with the Dillards in 2015:

I don't know if they're still friends, but they Jill hs atleast one friend. It surprising to me that she was not a bridesmaid. Maybe Jill wanted a small wedding party? 

[mstee]

Re Jill having friends- I always remember the scene of her giving advice on marriage to one of the sisters and she said not to let friends make you feel bad for spending less time with them and more time with your husband (paraphrasing). That was her one piece of advice. It was so odd. Maybe Jill had friends before marriage but shoved them aside for Derick and now they are gone. Must be lonely to be Jill. 

[Carm_88]

I just feel that Jill is like that friend in high school, you know the one who got a boyfriend first? Then suddenly you were the third wheel while they made out or were all icky? She didn't really care too much about you until she needed you for something? Yeah, I think Jill is that girl. 

[snickers34]

2 minutes ago, mstee said:

Re Jill having friends- I always remember the scene of her giving advice on marriage to one of the sisters and she said not to let friends make you feel bad for spending less time with them and more time with your husband (paraphrasing).

YESSSS. This. I couldn't figure out to re-phrase and type it up so I was too lazy to try. This is what made me think of this whole conversation, actually. I agree with others though, we don't really know. I just can't help but try to figure out how people like this still exist today, so I go down rabbit holes on random questions.  

[Georgiana]

Just now, Carm_88 said:

I just feel that Jill is like that friend in high school, you know the one who got a boyfriend first? Then suddenly you were the third wheel while they made out or were all icky? She didn't really care too much about you until she needed you for something? Yeah, I think Jill is that girl. 

Sadly, I could see Jill viewing pre-marriage deep female friendships as "temporary" because she was always planning to marry her "best friend", moving away with him, and then finding her "real" friends (who were probably the wives of his friends).  I would not be shocked if she largely dropped many of her friends the instant she found Derick as part of her preparation for her "new life".  

Happens a lot in the secular world too.  You don't always marry your best friend.  Sometimes, your partner is your partner, but your best friend is still your best friend.  I think it's very dangerous how our culture teaches people to look for one person for all their emotional needs.  Sure, sometimes it happens, but more often than not it is better to maintain deep, emotional connections with several different people.  You need a support SYSTEM, not a support person.  

Jill looks to Derick for EVERY SINGLE need, and I think that is what we see as being clingy and overwhelming.  

[FloraKitty35]

Jill the correct title for that literary masterpiece is, "10 Things Every Grifters Wife Needs to Know".

[SapphireSlytherin]

2015 - the date on that photo.

Just HOW LONG has Dwreck had the braces on his teeth? Not being critical, but damn - we're talking YEARS. Yes, I had braces. Twice. First time was almost three years (my teeth are in orthodontic textbooks - they were that bad), and second time (five years ago) for 11 months.

[nastyhobbitses]

6 hours ago, karen77 said:

She's the only one that hasn't been asked to be in someone else's wedding (at this point, and of the older 5)

She was a bridesmaid for Deena (her sister-in-law, married to Derick's brother). And while her hair was a bit much, the dress was super cute- very 70s, which really suits Jill. Get more bell sleeves, Jilly! And hang out more with Deena; she sounds like fun!

[Fluffy14]

3 hours ago, sunshine said:

Now, that you mentioned it, I did not realize that Jill did not have "friends" in her wedding party. I know the family pushed that their sisters and brothers will be your friends; but still, her family had multiple people who visited their home and it does not seem anyone truly connected with her. 

I get it, though. I have limited number of friends, mostly because I like being alone and reading a book.

 

44 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

2015 - the date on that photo.

Just HOW LONG has Dwreck had the braces on his teeth? Not being critical, but damn - we're talking YEARS. Yes, I had braces. Twice. First time was almost three years (my teeth are in orthodontic textbooks - they were that bad), and second time (five years ago) for 11 months.

I was getting dental work done this morning  and the CDA was telling me how she had dental surgery and they broke her jaw and stretched it etc. She then had braces and retainers. Immediately thinking about Derick, I asked how long her recovery for jaw surgery . She said one month!!  My next thought was what the hell is wrong with Derick? I realize the surgery was not identical, but come on he's been at it for years!

[Lizzybet]

4 hours ago, sunshine said:

I get it, though. I have limited number of friends, mostly because I like being alone and reading a book.

I have no friends- lots of people who I like and who like me, but my only real friends are family members.

Same reason: I enjoy my solitude and will read 'til my eyes cross.

 

[OhNoNike]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

Happens a lot in the secular world too.  You don't always marry your best friend.  Sometimes, your partner is your partner, but your best friend is still your best friend.  I think it's very dangerous how our culture teaches people to look for one person for all their emotional needs.  Sure, sometimes it happens, but more often than not it is better to maintain deep, emotional connections with several different people.  You need a support SYSTEM, not a support person.    

Totally. I "confessed" to a friend not too long ago that Mr Nike isn't my best friend. And you know what?  She said her husband wasn't either. Lol. What is this deal with society saying they have to be your best friend?  Husband and I make a good team, we're partners. See eye to eye with money, charity, etc.  Take care of each other's -ahem- needs.  Differ on things too, as normal.  But he's not my best friend.  Actually I don't even have one "best friend" really.  Different friends fill different needs depending on circumstances, but I don't put all my eggs in one basket .   I have a few close friends but not one "best" friend. 

[Knight of Ni]

I think this would be much for effective than Derick's pontificating.

 

[Fluffy14]

I am curious about if the Duggar girls even know how to be friends with others that are not siblings or kids they grew up with. They missed out on the social experiences as children mixing with other kids with beliefs, and experiences that are different. And learning the art of making friends because you like them. Not because your parents approve and tell you these are your friends.

I have a feeling they are simply lacking skills and experiences that help them fit in.

Every personal account I have read about people leaving fundamentalism there is a huge problem of fitting in with other christians and non christians. Because of being so sheltered from social norms, TV/movies/music they have no point of reference to really communicate or even feel a part of a conversation even with regular christians. Like TACO lady.

How can you be friends with Taco lady who is a mum with one child and owns and works in a restaurant?  How can you  move forward when your core beliefs are different?  How can Jessa have anything to contribute? She has no outside experience,  that doesnt include her parents or siblings. 

I have known short term missionaries who have come home and are so holier than thou when they get back some relationships never recovered. So I can see how Jill and Derick could be off putting. I just think these Duggar kidults are always going to revert back to home because it is going to take a long learning curve to fit in and keep friends.

People might be interested in them. But I think it would be because they are more of a curiosity and attract people who either want fame or a temporary acquaintance .  I think it would become very evident they don't have much to contribute beyond ATI and Gothard related topics.

Dances with Flamingos  especially fit in because she wanted to be one of them. Not that they wanted to be like her and contribute and learn from her and her life experiences.  

I personally don't think these women have true friends like you or I.  I think they are more like acquaintances or new people that have not realized they don't have much to offer.  Or People who are Bible or church related that just happen to be at the same functions. Not true friends.