Artemis (Cynthia Jeub) 3: The Grift Goes On

[Maggie Mae]

They do have that super special bed. I also would like an adjustable bed, but you know, I work for my money and I don't yet prioritize sleep like I should. They could sell that and all the rest of their stuff, and take themselves to wherever they are going with their pets and medications. Then they could find jobs and repurchase things they need - starting with a bed. Be like the rest of the world, who has to occasionally be inconvenienced and uncomfortable.  It's not forever. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

I wonder when they're gonna need a fresh start from this fresh start.

Next year?

"Ryann's family never wanted to pay for everything wasn't as much of a support system as we had hoped, and we think we will do better if we move to ------, which is not a cheaper area, but where a bunch of kind donors happen to live.  Unfortunately, one of our cats needs major surgery before we can move it, and we also have to pay the electric bill, our estimate for that is $8500.  We know it's a big ask, but if roughly 55 of you give up your daily Starbucks for a month and send us the money instead, we think we could make it work."    

[Maggie Mae]

Ryann is from New Jersey, also a high COL state, but probably more reasonable than Seattle. IDK, how are the east coast states doing? PNW is experiencing insanely high inflation, housing crises in most cities, and very high rates of unsheltered individuals. It's not the dystopian hellscape that right-wing commentators carry on about, but it's also not completely made up. 

Everything is expensive, and more people are struggling than not. It seems weird to not acknowledge that or even try to make your own way in the world. I know people are different, but I find it so odd that they don't appear to have any sort of motivation to do the things they claim to enjoy. 

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

19 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

They need to apply for a cottage food permit.  In order to fill out the application, they also have to have a food handler's card (or ServSafe), have their kitchen inspected, and pay the application fee. ($355). 

Cottage food laws exist for a reason. Just selling random baked goods on the street is illegal. And so is advertising that you are selling unapproved, unpermitted items. It's just rude to all the people who went through the legal channel - putting together a safe product, investing in the proper equipment and permits, and getting food handler training. 

https://agr.wa.gov/cottagefood

There's someone in my state who is trying to loosen restrictions on our cottage food laws and it's not going anywhere, thankfully. We really don't need an outbreak of listeria from eating improperly stored meat from a roadside stand. 

Actually I'm not sure they need a cottage food permit if they are "giving away" baked goods in exchange for a "donation". It's a slippery slope, but it's similar to a bake sale. I'm not sure what the policies are in WA. Regardless they don't strike me as people who are scrupulously clean ("We can't take showers, we use disposable wipes instead") so I think I'll be passing on the pie offer. Of course they are more than happy to drop off pies at homeless shelters if you would prefer. The first of the funds raised will be used to purchase pie making supplies and packaging. I think they have a long way to go...

What gets me is needing "a fresh start" (I despise that term for so many reasons) less than a year after receiving a very large sum of money from others for moving expenses and hotel rooms and deposits and whatnot. Now they want to move again. I understand wanting to get to a lower COL, but have they really researched what that will look like longer term? Will they be restless again in a year or two? And most importantly, how long do they think they can sustain this lifestyle? I know they think they can't even perform a remote job because of deadlines, have they asked themselves why they have issues with deadlines? Perhaps executive dysfunction, a learning difference or something that can be treated to overcome? (ADHD here). Watching this situation is painful. 

[keepercjr]

Still no donations on their go fund me.  This isn't going to work out for them. 

[formerhsfundie]

6 hours ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

What gets me is needing "a fresh start" (I despise that term for so many reasons) less than a year after receiving a very large sum of money from others for moving expenses and hotel rooms and deposits and whatnot. Now they want to move again. I understand wanting to get to a lower COL, but have they really researched what that will look like longer term? Will they be restless again in a year or two? 

My first thought when reading about this "fresh start" is that they have already worn out their welcome at their new apartment complex after only ONE YEAR! Wow. I think we can guess who is the problem here... 

Everyone BUT Artemis and Ryann.... obviously 😆

My second thought was... they are chasing that high they got from the last move where everyone chipped in and crowdfunded their over-the-top move. Maybe they will get lucky a second time, but I will be shocked if this is as successful as that one. Something about it vibes different.

Edited April 30 by formerhsfundie

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

The first of the funds raised will be used to purchase pie making supplies and packaging.

Oh for crying out loud. "Donate so we can make pies to thank you for your donation" is just... not the best look.

1 hour ago, formerhsfundie said:

My first thought when reading about this "fresh start" is that they have already worn out their welcome at their new apartment complex after only ONE YEAR! Wow. I think we can guess who the problem here... 

Everyone BUT Artemis and Ryann.... obviously 😆

Wearing out their welcome and tapping out their local network was my first thought. 

[formerhsfundie]

4 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Oh for crying out loud. "Donate so we can make pies to thank you for your donation" is just... not the best look.

It's even worse than that... I went onto the fundraiser site and read the whole thing.
They want to donate the pies to the food bank. Like... please no. People at the foodbank are going through enough.

[Ozlsn]

...I'm laughing because the crying reaction felt inappropriate and it's too funny for my usual use of the WTF reaction. They are asking for donations to donate a perishable good to foodbank?! The question of 'what are you even thinking here' does arise.

[Giraffe]

Wait, what?! So it's not even a real sale?? Does FJ still have a "grifters extraordinaire" thread? Because they have certainly earned their spot on the list! Er, they've attempted to earn a spot on the list. They're rather bad at it because they seem to not have any new donors lately. 

[formerhsfundie]

45 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Wait, what?! So it's not even a real sale?? Does FJ still have a "grifters extraordinaire" thread? Because they have certainly earned their spot on the list! Er, they've attempted to earn a spot on the list. They're rather bad at it because they seem to not have any new donors lately. 

Here's a direct quote from the public fundraiser page. 

Quote

Again, we are so grateful to everyone who helped us out. We don’t want to take your kindness for granted, so this time I’m doing a couple of creative projects to help give back.

The first is that I am baking pies for local sale as part of the fundraiser. I am unable to ship these, so only local pickup in Seattle is available for these. I will be using some of the initial funds raised to purchase ingredients and equipment for the pies (disposable pans and boxes, etc.), and putting proceeds back into the fundraiser. If you’d like to purchase pies to be donated to local food banks or shelters, contact me for details.

Spoiler alert: The second is paintings (abstract themes). 

[QuittersTry]

So I don't pay attention to the day to day grifting... this is just my general impression on reading a bunch of long form blog entries in a row (Sept 2023 to now)

This new moving announcement is kinda killing me... but will take it with a grain of salt. I have seen from the illness fakers thread on reddit (Dani M., lord help you if you fall down that rabbit hole) that NJ is very friendly to young folks on disability.

I think continuity of psychiatric care and continuing with the GED program in WA would be best for Art...IMHO.

The letters to self actually show a lot of growth. Reflecting on how forced happiness was detrimental and then wallowing in the dispare has also been detrimental. There is a lot less mania in the writing, more forethought. Embracing some of the narrative tricks learned in debate. I see many more creative flashes reminiscent of pre-2018 (writers block onset) days. Frankly what interests me is the struggle of faith in a modern world and how fundamentalism impacts families and individual faith.

As a serious, sensitive child myself, my heart aches for Art. Jeubs obviously had no where near the blind faith of their child and had the luxury of non fundie upbringing for perspective/ gounding.

P.S. I feel like they always rent out one of their rooms (living room vs. bed room) to some rando. That's where "their portion of the rent" always comes in.

Edited May 1 by QuittersTry
more thoughts

[Maggie Mae]

12 hours ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

Actually I'm not sure they need a cottage food permit if they are "giving away" baked goods in exchange for a "donation". It's a slippery slope, but it's similar to a bake sale. I'm not sure what the policies are in WA. 

Bake sales require a temporary food establishment permit, unless it's a non-profit operating for charity, religion, or educational purposes. So a school can have a bake sale, as long as items are individually wrapped and labeled with "food was prepared in a kitchen not inspected by the health department." 

A person who is selling goods on Facebook would  need a cottage food permit, a business license, and an inspection. They also require you to have a pet management plan and a childcare plan. (Ie, pets and kids under six can not be in the kitchen while preparing food to sell. My stupid open concept house that i hate is the reason im not bringing in an extra 30K in pickles. Seriously, hate that people decided to not have muliple spaces and doors to kitchens.)  They can call it a reward for donation, but washington state considers it selling, and specifically mentions the use of social media to facilitate the trade of food product for money. 

The fine for selling or giving away food to the public without a permit is up to $1000 a day!

12 hours ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

I know they think they can't even perform a remote job because of deadlines, have they asked themselves why they have issues with deadlines? Perhaps executive dysfunction, a learning difference or something that can be treated to overcome? (ADHD here). Watching this situation is painful. 

I would be so frustrated if I couldn't keep a job because of my adhd, and would at least try to self medicate with caffeine and other street stimulants if I couldn't get Concerta or Ritalin or whatever it's called now. Also diet works for some people. Either way, it sucks to be in a position where they feel like they can't take care of themselves due to finances. 

[GreenBeans]

30 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

So a school can have a bake sale, as long as items are individually wrapped and labeled with "food was prepared in a kitchen not inspected by the health department." 

Really, people need to individually wrap each slice of cake and put a label on it to sell at a bake sale at school? This seems so impractical and wasteful.

11 hours ago, keepercjr said:

Still no donations on their go fund me.  This isn't going to work out for them. 

I thought maybe I just couldn’t see the donations because I do not have a gofundme account, but it definitely looks like there are no donations there yet.

[Maggie Mae]

12 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

Really, people need to individually wrap each slice of cake and put a label on it to sell at a bake sale at school? This seems so impractical and wasteful.

It seems pretty normal to me. There aren't hand washing stations, people are taking money and handling food. No shields from people touching product, coughing, spitting. Just like all bake sale foods need to be shelf stable/not in need of temperature control. So no cream pies, cream cookies, nothing with egg or dairy, basically. Like I don't want to buy a slice of pumpkin bread from a guy who takes my money, runs his hand through his hair, and then hands it to me on a plate. If it's prewapped, I can just hand him the money and take the product, no hair on my plate. Plus it reduces liability in the case of illness, with the disclaimer that you knowingly purchased and consumed food from someone's kitchen, where there may or may not be a cat sleeping on a cutting board and a pot of mold from unwashed dishes. 

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

Bake sales require a temporary food establishment permit, unless it's a non-profit operating for charity, religion, or educational purposes. So a school can have a bake sale, as long as items are individually wrapped and labeled with "food was prepared in a kitchen not inspected by the health department." 

A person who is selling goods on Facebook would  need a cottage food permit, a business license, and an inspection. They also require you to have a pet management plan and a childcare plan. (Ie, pets and kids under six can not be in the kitchen while preparing food to sell. My stupid open concept house that i hate is the reason im not bringing in an extra 30K in pickles. Seriously, hate that people decided to not have muliple spaces and doors to kitchens.)  They can call it a reward for donation, but washington state considers it selling, and specifically mentions the use of social media to facilitate the trade of food product for money. 

The fine for selling or giving away food to the public without a permit is up to $1000 a day!

I would be so frustrated if I couldn't keep a job because of my adhd, and would at least try to self medicate with caffeine and other street stimulants if I couldn't get Concerta or Ritalin or whatever it's called now. Also diet works for some people. Either way, it sucks to be in a position where they feel like they can't take care of themselves due to finances. 

But they are a charity! /s

Thank you for clarifying the pie situation. It appears they are going to sell pies according to their language. They aren't the sharpest tool in the box to not even consider the potential problems with selling baked goods. 

As far as the ADHD goes, I agree. If they are working with a mental health professional you'd think the topic of why they don't feel they can work would be discussed. Unfortunately I just think it's another excuse for why they can't work. 

[GreenBeans]

50 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Just like all bake sale foods need to be shelf stable/not in need of temperature control. So no cream pies, cream cookies, nothing with egg or dairy, basically.

Huh. Bake sales must be really different in the US then. I mean, Germany is normally full of bureaucracy and rules and regulations for everything, but I’ve never really heard about specific rules for bake sales (non-commercial, so at a school or church or local community or sports event where volunteers bake and sell cake and the proceeds typically go to charity or to fund activities of the school/church/club etc that hosted).

People bake cakes (yes, including egg, cheese and dairy, cheesecake is typically everyone’s favorite and sells out quickly), they are put in a fridge until needed and then put out on a table. The volunteers selling will of course wash their hands and use utensils to cut and hand over the cake, it’s either put on a plate or wrapped in paper for takeout. And that’s it.

l’ve never seen a sign that the food hasn’t been prepared in a professional kitchen (because I guess that’s a given when you buy at such kind of bake sale). Recently a note listing the ingredients of the cake has become more common, but even that is fairly new. Allergies are not that common here and people with serious allergies usually wouldn’t rely on a note anyway.

 

[Ozlsn]

I looked up our local regulations and you need to register with the local council, provide ingredient information and in some circumstances (where food is being prepared on site and isn't cooking sausages and onions) there must be someone with a food handling certificate present and supervising. For bake sales it's mostly let the council know and make sure the ingredients are listed. I should add that this is for registered charities and not-for-profit organisations - something like what Art and Ryann are looking at could qualify (e.g. raising funds to enable someone to access specialist treatment which will incur additional costs) but there are other forms you need to have in place to ensure that it's considered a charitable event.

Edited May 1 by Ozlsn

[Melissa1977]

I know some people like Art. People who could study, work and afford themselves, but start having depression, leave work and cloister at home. They focus on every bit of suffering they have. The less they move their bodies, the worse they sleep. The worse they sleep, the worse they feel, so they move less and body hurta... They live in an ugly house, don't have social life, don't go out to take a breath or sunlight or get some kind moments (many activities are free). So they feel worse and worse, more depressed, more unable to work... It's a snake bitting its tail. To make things worse, Art is so entitled (narcististic like dad, maybe?) that cannot ser the full picture.

Grifting is not a solution. It takes an enormous courage to break that situation. I don't think they are a good match, because both reinforce the weakness of the other. Both need therapy for sure, but also someone should tell them they are not that special.

 

[Maggie Mae]

10 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Huh. Bake sales must be really different in the US then.

It's not the entire US. Every state has their own laws around cottage food and bake sales. Municipalities can also have laws that are stronger than the state. So Art really should be checking both Washington and Seattle's laws. And the county as well,  not sure how that works, my state doesn't have counties, and my municipality is in a consolidated borough so it's one and the same.  

Washington State has some of the most stringent cottage food laws. Typically, but there are exceptions, states on the coasts (and illinois) have more requirements than, say Montana/Wyoming/Idaho/Dakotas. Obviously Florida and Texas do their own thing. Probably a safe bet would be "if you can get an abortion, you need a permit to sell food." (Although I think Missouri has some pretty strict laws around cottage food as well.) 

10 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

The volunteers selling will of course wash their hands and use utensils to cut and hand over the cake.

But where do they wash their hands after taking money and before handing over open, unwrapped food? How does the department of health track down who donated the Salmonella pie, if they aren't required to keep a list of who donated what product? How do the volunteers keep the open and unwrapped food from being contaminated by nonfood materials if it's just sitting on a table in a gym or in a parking lot? In my area most people aren't buying the item and eating it right away, either. It's usually a few tables in a church basement or library or parking lot with a lot of traffic, no electricity, no handwashing stations. People buy for the cute kids or whatever and shove their ziplock of cookies in their bag for later or never. 

 

[formerhsfundie]

On 4/30/2024 at 9:38 AM, keepercjr said:

Still no donations on their go fund me.  This isn't going to work out for them. 

Art has some theories as to why:

Quote

"Fundraising is getting so much harder. I blame the price gouging that’s affecting everyone except the extremely rich. People can’t spare what they used to, because life is getting more expensive. Food, housing, and everything else is climbing up and up."

"The poorest are hit hardest because of the greed of the richest. I truly don’t know what we are going to do. We need to move again because we can’t afford to stay in this area. Moving itself is expensive, too. We haven’t received any donations yet toward moving."

And honestly I do think it’s because so many people are struggling more than ever. We just don’t have the “same $20 to share around” that we had even a couple of years ago. And that is scary.

From their public social media page. As I expected. It's not them. It's everyone else.

[Coconut Flan]

It couldn't possibly be because people have figured out that they are do nothing, perpetually whining grifters.  Oh no, not them.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

Thankfully they've decided not to sell baked goods. Apparently because someone told them how they needed a cottage food license and also because they don't know if they would be able to make all the pies. 

Edited May 2 by HumbleJillyMuffin

[Mrs Ms]

They have a “champagne lifestyle” on OTHER peoples “beer budget” 

“Champagne wants” is probably a better word than lifestyle, though the fact that they demand it and insist on being entitled to it makes it more than a want in my eyes. 🤷‍♀️ 

Edited May 2 by Mrs Ms
Terminology

[Mrs Ms]

9 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

But where do they wash their hands after taking money and before handing over open, unwrapped food? How does the department of health track down who donated the Salmonella pie, if they aren't required to keep a list of who donated what product? How do the volunteers keep the open and unwrapped food from being contaminated by nonfood materials if it's just sitting on a table in a gym or in a parking lot. 

Any I have been to in Germany and New Zealand had one person handling the cash and other people serving. Plus power and hand washing facilities. Usually with a few tables and chairs right next to the sale area to sit and eat immediately. 
Plus all the ones in Germany I saw had display cabinets for the products like in cafes. I think the ones in NZ usually had insect shields and/or see through lids and weren’t right at the front edge of the table.