Dillards 41: Chocolate, Cheese, and Other Things More Interesting

[Iokaste]

So in the US you can actually get all the way through high school with only 2 years of History (1 world, 1 US)?! 
That explains a few things...

And now that we are at the topic: is it seriously taught in US schools, that the US were responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down? 
I've met that claim quite a few times lately and so far no one has been able to give an explanation as to why they believe that. 

[Lurker]

Well you know that US  Pres. Reagan commanded  "Mr Gorbachev , tear down that wall". /s

[louisa05]

So in the US you can actually get all the way through high school with only 2 years of History (1 world, 1 US)?! 
That explains a few things...

And now that we are at the topic: is it seriously taught in US schools, that the US were responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down? 
I've met that claim quite a few times lately and so far no one has been able to give an explanation as to why they believe that. 

Speaking for myself and the textbook I was given (The Americans from McDougal Littell publishers). No.

You have to understand that there is history as it is taught and history as it is used for political purposes. That trope is used to lionize Reagan. And some less astute teachers may buy into that because of their personal politics not what the text or curriculum says.

More likely, though, because history is crammed in to short survey courses for the average student ( no schools I have worked in even offer AP or advanced courses of any kind), these people were never taught about that period and have drawn their own conclusion. I had a hard time making it to 1945 let alone 1989.

[HarleyQuinn]

Are we sure it was a public school that dWRECK subbed for and not some type of Homeschool co op like Ben's family goes to? I'm horrified for those children that had to listen to him for an entire day regardless.

 I saw further back that someone commented that the U.S only requires two years of history to be taught, and at least in my school's case that was not true. You had to take a history class every single year until you were a senior, then you still had to take a social studies class like sociology, government 2, (because everyone takes government 1) psychology, etc. 

And in a more annoying note, my school also did not let you graduate unless you took a swimming class so I learned the hard way that I'm shit at water polo.

[Iokaste]

2 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Speaking for myself and the textbook I was given (The Americans from McDougal Littell publishers). No.

You have to understand that there is history as it is taught and history as it is used for political purposes. That trope is used to lionize Reagan. And some less astute teachers may buy into that because of their personal politics not what the text or curriculum says.

More likely, though, because history is crammed in to short survey courses for the average student ( no schools I have worked in even offer AP or advanced courses of any kind), these people were never taught about that period and have drawn their own conclusion. I had a hard time making it to 1945 let alone 1989.

 

Happy to hear that it's not taught like that everywhere.

I'm a History teacher, and I don't believe such a thing as "history as it is (or was)" exists. History (as opposed to events) is always a construct and always ideological.
I was just curious where this particular idea came from, as it seems to pop up all the time atm, and I can't really grasp how that became "common knowledge" in the US or wwidespread enough for me to run into it regularly.

It's sad that History is such an underprioritized subject in most places. At least here the kids have it all the way through elementary and high school, even if the subject isn't given very much time, a class a week or so.  

[Audrey2]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in high school in Ohio (graduated in 1990), one year of American history and 1 semester each of Government and Economics was mandatory. If you wanted to go on to college, a year of World History was also needed, but not a requirement for graduation. 

[louisa05]

Happy to hear that it's not taught like that everywhere.  I'm a History teacher, and I don't believe such a thing as "history as it is (or was)" exists. History (as opposed to events) is always a construct and always ideological.

I was just curious where this particular idea came from, as it seems to pop up all the time atm, and I can't really grasp how that became "common knowledge" in the US or wwidespread enough for me to run into it regularly.

 

It's sad that History is such an underprioritized subject in most places. At least here the kids have it all the way through elementary and high school, even if the subject isn't given very much time, a class a week or so.  

 

 

 "As it is" was shorthand. I certainly did not mean there is one interpretation. But the Reagan interpretation leaves out an abundance of facts thus is not history "as it was" at all regardless of how any given historian chooses to interpret it. There are concrete facts in history. The Berlin Wall came down. JFK was killed. The French had a revolution. Those things are not ideological but are actual events. How we interpret their causes and impact is the part that is an ideological construct and interpretations vary greatly. I would argue that events like those had such a magnitude that we cannot pretend that their being included in the historical narrative is a mere construct either as is the case with much of political history. What is left out (notably in the US in an earlier time, the experience of native populations) is part of how history is often an ideological construct.

 

As to how much history is required, I noted that it varies from state to state. And high schools are typically free to require more than state mandates but not less. However, if you attended school 20 years ago, your state and/or school may have lessened requirements since then. Mine has done so in the seven years since I left teaching. This is a result of the focus on STEM.

 

 

[Carm_88]

Here we started with basic history of our province in the early elementary years. We moved on to more broad/basic world history in junior high. Grade 7 was euro-centric, grade 8 was more general and broad (Japan standing out in my mind for some reason), grade 9 was a mix of everything. We did Canadian History in grade 10. Which for us meant that we followed the book and then the teacher gave us handouts about what our province, still a Dominion, was doing in the same time period. I took World Geography in grade 11 and that filled my credit requirement! 

[Knight of Ni]

It wasn't taught this way in my AP world history class but it seemed that many people were taught that not only the US but Ronald Reagan was personally responsible for tearing down the Berlin Wall. As in some people almost believe he was there to break the first brick.

[ThunderRolls]

I went to 2 public high schools in 2 different states, and they both had different requirements and ways of doing things. The first high school was in a large and wealthy district so there were more options, more qualified teachers (more teachers with graduate degrees for instance), and stricter requirements - such as science courses every year. The second school was in a rural area with a very mixed population (think extreme poverty and extreme wealth with very little in between). The requirements were pretty lax in comparison to the first school (only biology and chemistry were required to graduate for example). The second school was not a terrible school by any means, it's just the first one was excellent. Both schools were pretty unbiased in the way our history courses were taught, too. There was definitely no Reagan and the US were solely responsible for the tearing down of the Berlin Wall - it was most certainly David Hasselhoff who was responsible! (joking!)

Private schools can be a mixed bag as it seems like unqualified people can get shuffled about to teach grade levels and subjects they're not specialized or degreed in. I know a lot of people who attended private Lutheran schools their entire lives and one thing I noticed is that their exposure to certain topics in history and science has been extremely limited - most of these people don't know anything about the Holocaust and all think Reagan was the best president ever. Science? Pfft! Creationism is what's focused on. One girl told me her high school "science" course was just her and 3 other students and they mostly watched Disney movies every day and talked about why macro evolution was evil and wrong. This girl is now a teacher and still doesn't see her education as lacking. It's kind of scary. 

I just want to say that not all private (or religious) schools are bad. My brother and I both had great experiences at Catholic elementary schools (and in his case, a Jesuit high school), and we didn't get watered down science and history courses. 

 

[louisa05]

@ThunderRolls I taught in private schools. In my state a private school has to meet state course requirements for high school graduation and have certified teachers for all but religion courses. A school that does not meet those requirements is classified as a home school co- op and cannot give state sanctioned diplomas (students would need a GED to continue education). I am aware that some states are quite lax on private schools in terms of core requirements and teacher licensing but that is a fault of state laws. It could be remedied. Even the Christian school I taught at had state licensed teachers, and only a handful were from Christian colleges --and those had attended fully accredited Christian colleges or they would not get a certificate.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Iokaste said:

So in the US you can actually get all the way through high school with only 2 years of History (1 world, 1 US)?! 
That explains a few things...

And now that we are at the topic: is it seriously taught in US schools, that the US were responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down? 
I've met that claim quite a few times lately and so far no one has been able to give an explanation as to why they believe that. 

Not in my state. Students have to take an ancient world history class in ninth grade, modern world history in tenth (with an AP option), American history in eleventh (with an AP option), and U.S. government in twelfth (another AP option). Even a non-honors diploma requires the completion of all four of these classes. 

And I was never taught that the U.S. is responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down.

But hey, if you want to keep going with your "Americans are stupid!" thing cause it makes you feel good, go for it. 

[louisa05]

Not in my state. Students have to take an ancient world history class in ninth grade, modern world history in tenth (with an AP option), American history in eleventh (with an AP option), and U.S. government in twelfth (another AP option). Even a non-honors diploma requires the completion of all four of these classes. 
And I was never taught that the U.S. is responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down.
But hey, if you want to keep going with your "Americans are stupid!" thing cause it makes you feel good, go for it. 

And in Iowa you have to take one year American history and a half year of government plus a year and a half unspecified which means the school could require world history or just a choice of random social science courses or whatever they want. In Alabama, a year each of American, World and government plus an unspecified year. In Missouri, 3 years unspecified social studies with one half year being personal finance. Massachusetts is three years of history and seems to be an exception. Nebraska is now 3 years social studies (down from 3.5) with one year American history, geography and half year of government. Thus some schools are eliminating world history for other courses. California requires one year combined history & geography for US and one for world, half a year of government and half a year of economics.

You can play too, Google high school graduation requirements and your state.

Schools can require more coursework in any area, but the minimums in social sciences are pretty minimal in terms of learning history and regardless of if you personally had 20 years of stellar history instruction, it is evident that most states don't consider it an educational priority

[singsingsing]

I don't know if things have changed, but Canadians (or at least Ontarians) were only required to take one History class in high school: Canadian History in grade 9 or 10. That's it. There were other History options, but they weren't required. You did have to fill various social studies requirements to graduate, but I'm pretty sure it was possible to do that without taking any of the History options. 

[louisa05]

@locaste, just realized that in the post that inspired you to give me a lesson on what "history" means, I did not even say "history as it is". I said "history as it is TAUGHT". Very different meaning.

[VelociRapture]

Connecticut here. I honestly don't remember specifics from school. Not because of bad teachers or anything - I had a lot of fantastic teachers. I suspect it's because I'm B-12 deficient, likely was throughout my teen years, and B-12 deficiency can cause memory issues. Fun times.

Requirements here when I graduated (2006):

- no fewer than 20 credits total

- 4 credits of English 

- 3 credits of mathematics

- 3 credits of social studies (history)

- 1/2 credit in civics and American government

- 2 credits in science 

- 1 credit in arts or vocational education

- 1 credit in physical education

https://www.casciac.org/pdfs/CT_Graduation_Requirements.pdf

These were the minimums required and they have since adjusted those minimums to be higher. Pretty much every district required much more than that. Some classes (like Biology and Chemistry) were required courses. As far as I remember - I took four years of science (including Anatomy and Physiology senior year), at least three of history, four years of a foreign language, I believe I had 4.5 in English, 3 years of physical education, at least 1 credit in the arts (painting and cooking), I think I did 4 years of math (despite hating it and sucking at it), and I did a half year of economics because that was required by our district.

Every state is different, but I do believe most will follow the same basic minimum requirements. Not everyone will have good (or even decent) teachers or access to the same opportunities - that honestly makes me really sad because every child deserves a good education.

But it pisses me off beyond belief how often people view that as an uniquely American problem. Every country had issues with bad teachers and every country struggles with disparities in educational opportunities. Some countries struggle a lot more than others and I am the first to say that America has a long way to go in improving our educational system... but can we have just one conversation about education or healthcare or politics or something where we don't make any sweeping generalizations about the US and everyone who lives here for once?*

(*And this obviously applies to other countries as well. Unless it's thread drift where people are sharing the funniest generalizations they've heard about their country. Then go wild.)

[Maggie Mae]

4 hours ago, Iokaste said:

So in the US you can actually get all the way through high school with only 2 years of History (1 world, 1 US)?! 
That explains a few things...

You know history isn't only taught in a class called "history" right? I learned history in my English class, in my spanish class, in my Latin class, in science class, and even in math class. When we read Les Mis, we learned about the French Revolution. When we read The Crucible, we learned about 1690 New England, when we read Animal Farm, we learned about Stalin and Russia. When we learned Geometry, we learned about Euclid. History is more than just memorizing dates (1066 is the year of the norman invasion - I learned that in my junior year English class and never forgot it for some reason) - it's about how these events contributed to who we are and where people live and different cultures. 

And yes, my school only required two years of history - US and World. We also required four years of English, 2 years of math (everyone took more and I think they changed that to 3), 1 year of physical science, 1 year of biology. 4 years of "religion," (Including a year of church history), 2 years of PE, 2 years of foreign language, 2 years of art or music, 1 year of civics (which included more US history) and probably something obvious that I'm forgetting. I took 8 classes a day for 4 years and then went to college and immediately dropped my history major after the first class. That's a story for a different day though. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I was on the AP track in high school (5.0 A's, 4.0 B's, etc.).

We had three levels of diploma:  Academic, Regular, and Basic. And yes, they were called just that and nobody got their feelings hurt.

I got the academic diploma (and still graduated a semester early and went to college). These were my class requirements (mid-1980s):

- minimum 24 credits (1 credit equals 1 entire school years' study)

- 4 credits of English (including 1 credit of writing and 1 credit of classical literature)

- 4 credits of mathematics (including 1 credit of calculus)

- 4 credits of science (including 1 credit of physics)

- 3 credits of history (including 1/2 credit of civics/government)

- 3 credits of the same foreign language

- 2 credits of fine arts

- 2 credits in physical education (could be gymnastics, football, or marching band)

- 2 credits in business/life skills

 

**********

edit:  the one class I took in high school that has served me the most to this very day was typing (in a business class). On an IBM Selectric typewriter.

[KeshetParparNesicha]

New York's minimum requirements at the time of my graduation were:

• 4 units English Language Arts
• 4 units Social Studies, including 2 Global History, 1 American History, 1/2 Civics, and 1/2 Economics (side note: I don't remember ever learning anything that resembled economics)
• 3 units Mathematics
• 3 units Science, including 1 Life Science and 1 Physical Science
• 1/2 unit Health (which I also don't remember learning)
• 1 unit "Visual Art, Music, Dance, and/or Theater"
• 1 unit Languages Other Than English (optional for IEP students)
• 2 units Physical Education
• 3 1/2 units Electives

Total 22 units (or 44 credits, I never could keep them straight)

[mango_fandango]

Ah, you guys would find the British system very weird. What you study beyond the age of 14 varies by school, and they've changed stuff around a fair bit since I left, but I didn't do history or geography beyond 14. I enjoyed history but was no good at the exams, same with geography. It's a confusing system, but there are different exam boards and different specifications within those boards. GCSE specifications tend to be mainly Euro-centric. My brother did the GCSE but not the A-Level (16+) as the course his school offered was rather random and obscure, something about Italy I believe. 

I do have a decent grounding in the basics, and did a few German history modules at university which were interesting.

I guess you'd argue that we "specialise" too early. But the GCSE system is fairly broad. There are two main post-16 systems, A-Levels and the IB. The IB mandates that you do maths, English, a science, a humanity and a second language, plus another subject of your choice. I would've hated that system. Because we have end-of-school exams which affect the university you go to, I wanted to be able to concentrate on subjects I was good at rather than spread myself and get more mediocre grades in subjects I wasn't good at. I was only really any good at languages at school. 

Plus, of course, we choose our university degree straight away rather than take a variety of courses and choose later. I think it ultimately depends on the person; inevitably there are people who change what they want to do, but I knew I only wanted to do languages and was highly unlikely to change. They were the only subject I was really any good at. Plus you can do another degree later on in life through online courses like the Open University where you don't even need any formal requirements. 

There are pros and cons to every school system. Every pupil is different. 

[Bad Wolf]

I did GCE before they put the S in, and A levels. It was a pretty rigorous system, with pass or fail depending on one exam. Too bad if you weren't feeling good that day. Got my BA and MA here. In some ways easier, but I was a mature student and motivated.  It's hard to compare two. Whatever gets you educated works for me.

[mango_fandango]

I do have to say it- the internet is a wonderful resource. If you want to learn about something, go ahead and look it up. It doesn't have to be Wikipedia, it can be any site. A subject like history can be studied whatever way you fancy; it's not like maths where you have to master the basics before going onto the harder stuff. Also my mother is obsessed with both World Wars and has the Yesterday channel on a lot (history as you can guess :P) so I learn from that. I also didn't get any politics education at school, but I watch the news/read newspapers, and just enrolled in an online graduate diploma in politics. 

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Connecticut here

Connecticut currently requires 3 years of social sciences of which one year must be American history and one half year civics/government. 

@Maggie Mae Good teachers can incorporate history into other course work. My personal objection to relying on that would be that most of the time, the English teacher (as just one example) took 3 or 6 credit hours of college history and only has a rudimentary grasp on the topic. The history taught in the average English class comes from basic overviews provided in curriculum packs for novels and is by no means exhaustive and the instruction will rarely involve interpretation or critical thinking (not in a the context of "doing" history anyway). A historical element should be included in all course work, especially in the humanities, but we can't rely on it as a source for history instruction or justify the lack of history instruction because it is there. 

1 hour ago, KeshetParparNesicha said:

New York'

New York's requirements are currently 1 yr of American history, 1/2 a year of government, 1/2 of economics and 2 other year long courses. The 2 additional courses are not specified as global history which means that was your school's choice. Another district could have a current events semester, a psychology or sociology semester elective and make government a whole year if they wanted to. 

It bears repeating, what your high school required and what the state you lived in actually mandates are frequently two different things. Schools are free to require more credits. One school I taught in required an entire year of government even thought the state requirement was a 1/2 year, for example. One thing I am noticing as I look up states is that very few, if any, are specifically requiring world history and cultures which is a bit disturbing in our increasingly global society. I think California was the only one I've found requiring it so far. 

[Shadoewolf]

Here to graduate we aren't tough at the state level but the district level. We also aren't part of the state School of Choice program (even though it is a public district) and we were just voted as having the best teachers in the state.  Requirements are:

4 years English -American Lit required

4 years Math -algebra 1&2, geometry required

4 years science- physical and Chemistry or Physics required

4 years civics/US history/World history required, plus psych/sociology as electives that fall in there for credit

2 years foreign language

1 year PE

1 semester Health

1 semester Econ

 

 

[debdebdebby13]

I graduated in 2000 from a high school in Texas. The last years of history were: 8th grade- early American History (up to the civil war I believe), 9th grade- World Geography, 10th grade- world history, 11th grade- modern US history, 12th grade- 1 semester US government, 1 semester economics. From 9th grade on pre-AP or AP classes were offered. All of these classes were required, not elective.