Seewalds 24 - Bought the House from Grandma

[doubleT]

FJ'ers do speculate.  A lot of what is speculated on comes from things that are seen or heard during an "Counting On" episode or on social media accts.   

I think the speculation regarding Jill not enjoying motherhood or life in general is because she does seem different in personality now than how she was before marriage.  I'm sure real life, even living in the Duggar bubble" came at her fast.  She got married, pregnant and had a baby (C-section after LONG labor) within a year.  Scandals broke.  Her husband quit his job had major surgery.  Then there was her time in CA.  There have been accounts of Jill and Derrick doing/saying odd things with Izzy.  Remember the swaddling pics?  Remember when she wanted to get pregnant again so that Izzy could learn that he isn't the center of the universe?  Remember his piano lesson?  Remember when they said Izzy was a manipulator?  

There have been several pics of Spurgy at his grandparents house, playing with his aunts, uncles and cousins.  Jessa has filmed him doing things there a lot too.  I think that is where a lot of the speculation comes from that she goes over there a lot for help.  

It is just speculation,  no one knows for sure.  But most of what is guessed at is because of something that was said/shown on the show or in social media.  

[SapphireSlytherin]

53 minutes ago, doubleT said:

FJ'ers do speculate.  A lot of what is speculated on comes from things that are seen or heard during an "Counting On" episode or on social media accts.  

Speculating is one thing. Diagnosing (from afar!) is completely different.

[JoyfulDhampir]

I have only known about the Duggars for about a year and I have had a lot to catch up on so please forgive me if I am wrong on some of the details. I feel that Jessa has taken to parenting the way she has because she only has 2 children and they are her sole responsibility besides Ben. Back at home she was made to be be a sister mum to her many younger siblings from a young age along with being one of the main teachers and all of her other jurisdictions. Now she has her own children, she lives close to home so she can use her sisters as babysitters and Ben seems to help her with the kids at home (not calling him the father of the year or the best provider but he does seem to love and want to help the Jessa and the boys.) With Jill while she had the same situation as Jessa at home (sister mum, jurisdictions, teaching) she was the favorite daughter and seemed to have time to explore interests outside the home (midwifery.) After Izzy was born unlike Jessa she wasn't close to home so no sibling moms for her, she was thrown in to a world she wasn't use to with a language she had little understanding of and a husband who (from an outsiders view) doesn't seem to want much to do with helping her with the baby. She had more pressures and things to worry about and a lot less help. I don't doubt that Jill loves her kids, I just think she expected motherhood to be easier. Both Jill and Jessa watched their mother growing up and it must have seemed easy from their view, Michelle gets pregnant, pushes the baby out, hands it off and repeats the cycle; I'm guessing that's what Jill thought motherhood would be like and had had a shock that its not that easy.

I say all this but I guess we will never really know because we don't get to be a fly on the wall, the view from the outside can be totally different from what is actually going on. Something I always try to keep in mind with everyone but especially with the Duggars...

[justoneoftwo]

I expect Jill feels punished by her deliveries.  She seemed very focused on having it her way, and didn't.  Then things just continued to unravel.  That would be extremely hard.  

I'll also say, the Dillards are not good at PR, Jessa and Ben seem to be. That colors everything.  If you post strategically you can make the world think your life is coming up roses, even when its not, but if you don't plan it can be harder.

[Carm_88]

As stated, it's hard to tell what is really going on. My two cents on it, Jill had her buddies and thought that being a parent would be just like that. Then she's moves to CA and goes from having all the help in the world to being on her own. No support system, that's not easy no matter what way you swing it. I don't know if she was thinking about her next delivery and how it would be better, if that was soothing her. But it didn't turn out differently and I think Jill may be struggling with that. 

Jessa got pregnant, had the traumatic birth with Spurgeon but took to mothering him like a duck to water. She clearly does get some help but if you have your family close, I think that you will. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as they aren't over there constantly. Then Jessa had Henry and she had the perfect home birth that Jill wanted. Now Jessa has the ever adorable Spurgeon and the chunky monkey Henry to show to all her followers on instagram. 

Either way, it's hard to tell what life is truly like for them. I feel for Jill in ways because it's not what she wanted or it's what she thought she wanted and now there is no way out. I would like both of them to stop having babies and concentrate on what they have. Will that happen? Likely not. 

[VineHeart137]

1 hour ago, doubleT said:

I think the speculation regarding Jill not enjoying motherhood or life in general is because she does seem different in personality now than how she was before marriage

There's a difference between speculating that Jill might not be finding parenthood/ married life in general as easy as she thought it would be, and claiming that she believes her son is a burden and an inconvenience and she MUST have PPD.

1 hour ago, doubleT said:

There have been several pics of Spurgy at his grandparents house, playing with his aunts, uncles and cousins.  Jessa has filmed him doing things there a lot too. 

I get that, but maybe she just enjoys spending time with her family and letting her sons play with their aunts, uncles, and cousins? They live close by and she doesn't have a job. I just think it's a bit of a jump to see pictures of Jessa and her kids at her family's house and conclude that must mean she farms her kids out to poor slavegirl Jana while Jessa kicks back and relaxes.

I dunno, my daughter is almost exactly in between Israel and Spurgeon in age so maybe it just hits too close to home for me and I'm biased, but I know I would find it extremely hurtful for people to state that I thought my child was a burden or insinuate that I was lazy for spending a lot of time at my family member's house. And yeah, I get that they put themselves out there for that type of discussion. But it still makes me cringe-y. Which, admittedly, is a personal problem.

[bananabread]

2 hours ago, doubleT said:

There have been accounts of Jill and Derrick doing/saying odd things with Izzy.  Remember the swaddling pics?  Remember when she wanted to get pregnant again so that Izzy could learn that he isn't the center of the universe?  Remember his piano lesson?  Remember when they said Izzy was a manipulator? 

This is exactly what I was thinking of when I mentioned Jill possibly not liking motherhood like she thought she would. I know babies have different personalities (I was always happy, future-Mr. Bananabread cried constantly for the first year), so I would never speculate on a mother's adequacy based on the behavior of her infant. But Jill and Derick have both done and said odd things regarding Israel. I could never picture Jessa or Ben calling one of their boys a manipulator or taking photos as he screamed while trapped in a blanket.

[karen77]

It is interesting to see the difference that Jessa got a photo shoot with People shortly after Henry was born and Jill hasn't so far.... lots of reasons why I suppose, but get on the speculation train! 

[2manyKidzzz]

Being alone with a small child for many hours in a "dangerous" country where I did not speak the language would have driven me to despair. 

If I lived near my family, albeit a lazy baby hoarder mother but with many siblings to talk to and lend a hand, I would be there often,, very often. Conversations and company really ease tension for a mom when kids are small and need constant care.

[justoneoftwo]

The lack of a People shoot makes me think they may be backing away from the public eye.  I see no reason People wouldn't be interested.  

Having a baby is isolating. It is so much easier to deal with when others are around to have adult conversations with.  If I had a choice I would also be at my family's place, just so I could talk about something other than, yes thats a dog, yep still a dog, yes you love the dog all day long.

[SayWhat]

39 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

The lack of a People shoot makes me think they may be backing away from the public eye.  I see no reason People wouldn't be interested.  

 

IMHO, D-wreck has gone off the deep end and that may be a part of the change in JIllyMuffin.   I believe her childhood/teenager dreams of being celebrity missionary and mother to a quiverfull are not living up to her expectations and we are noticing how that has taken a toll on her.     

I do not see D-wreck or JIllyMuffin  backing away from the public eye, D-wreck seems to like the publicity.  My guess is that D-wreck may have offended someone important at People by saying something stupid.  People chose to go with the more PR savvy & photogenic Dugger Couple of Bin & Blessa.  We all see the stupid public comments D-wreck makes on twitter, my guess he probably says extra stupid stuff in private conversations.  

 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Being alone with a small child for many hours in a "dangerous" country where I did not speak the language would have driven me to despair. 

 

Same. I'm also thinking of when she recalled the shower rack incident, she reacted strongly. It was weeks? months? later, and talking about it made her cry. She must have been truly been fearful for her and Izzy's life, and I can't imagine what that must have been like. It would be traumatizing for pretty much anyone if they thought they and their child were about to be victims of a violent crime. The Dillards seem to like talking about how dangerous El Salvador is, and that constant focus on danger would make anyone on high alert. Which would be exhausting. If Jill is traumatized and constantly worried about her life and the life of her family, that's a mental drain which won't be solved with prayer and "working on your contentment." And based of Derdick's posts about prayer fixing depression, he isn't exactly the supportive type.

And I'd imagine for any fundie, not saying this is happening with Jill, prayer wasn't fixing distress/despair they would feel like they are doing something profoundly wrong and being punished. Which would add another layer of despair. As Ron Weasley would say, "One person can't feel all that at once, they'd explode."

Derdick is a dick, and needs to stop being a dick to his wife, Catholics, and everyone else in the world.

[SassyPants]

The one good thing about Jill's situation, she is finding out her struggles NOW, 1-2 kids in and early on, VS Michelle's laundry room melt down after child 7-8. Jill's had 2 huge babies, and 2 c-sections following what is very, very likely, 2 horrific, complicated labors. She will not be having double digit numbers of kids. From everything we have seen, its probably for the best.

She can be sad and grieve the death of her dream, but it could have likely been her real nightmare.

Derjerk is just that-

[justoneoftwo]

If Jill really is finding out about her struggles now its good, but horrible that she won't be able to see that.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

If Jill really is finding out about her struggles now its good, but horrible that she won't be able to see that.

If she prays enough and fall back on that faith that she and her family always remind us about, she should, eventually, realize and accept that she has been blessed many times over.

Faith is more than just words.

[EmmieJ]

To my eye, Spurgeon and Henry are adorable and photogenic.   Israel and Sam are less so.  I think it's the very upturned nose, plus Israel often looks uncertain in pictures I've seen.   I can't imagine how hurtful it would have been to hear my father call me a little manipulator for saying "I love you".  What excuse for a parent does that?  Maybe People know that Jessa and her family sell more magazines than a grifting "missionary" who calls his little boy manipulative. 

[Hashtag Blessed]

1 minute ago, EmmieJ said:

To my eye, Spurgeon and Henry are adorable and photogenic.   Israel and Sam are less so.  I think it's the very upturned nose, plus Israel often looks uncertain in pictures I've seen.   I can't imagine how hurtful it would have been to hear my father call me a little manipulator for saying "I love you".  What excuse for a parent does that?  Maybe People know that Jessa and her family sell more magazines than a grifting "missionary" who calls his little boy manipulative. 

I really doubt People cares at all how the kids are treated. I think they care more about how photogenic the parents are. D-bag's crooked mug and Jill's quiet desperation behind the eyes probably don't sell as well as Ben n' Jessa's more conventional good looks and genuine smiles. I doubt the babies' looks are really important. Kids are cute, even if they're not gorgeous models. 

[Palindrome]

Those Duggar genes are strong. Henry is looking more and more like his big brother IMO

[VineHeart137]

And now we've moved on to which babies are better looking... Okay then.

Jesse's been posting.

 

[nst]

notice she never ever says anything about anyone else

she is clearly using manipulation  to the 9th degree 

 

[tabitha2]

Honestly All the GrandDuggars are varying levels of cute and More importantly they are apparently healthy. I just think we need to be careful of perhaps criticizing children because of how we feel about their parents. 

[Hashtag Blessed]

4 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

And now we've moved on to which babies are better looking... Okay then.

Jesse's been posting.

 

They look like they're cosplaying as the creepy ghost twins from the Shining. Sweet sentiment though. It's nice to see something that actually sort of resembles a normal sibling bond in this family.

[tabitha2]

Honestly All the GrandDuggars are varying levels of cute and More importantly they are apparently healthy. I just think we need to be careful of perhaps unwittingly criticizing children because of how we feel about their parents. 

[CorruptionInc.]

58 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I can't imagine how hurtful it would have been to hear my father call me a little manipulator for saying "I love you". 

The intent by saying "I love you" is a nice one. Not a manipulative one. Derick really has no concept of language.

[calimojo]

I think Izzy is a cutie, but there is no doubting that his parents have posted some odd things and pictures since he was born.  The wrapped in a tight blanket while he was screaming, the mouthing of an electrical fan, the precarious climbing  on shelves or drawers, etc.  I think Izzy generally looks like a happy kid in his pictures, ( except for the crying picture), and he seems to be a very active child.  But the way his parents interact with him when filming is awkward and remote.  This might not be how they always are, but their style does not translate well on camera.  Like others have said, they are not good with managing their image. 

Jessa, oddly enough, always seemed remote and rather cold, but after having Spurgeon, she seems warmer, more real.  Now is this because she is really happy, and becoming a mother has softened her, or is she just better with managing her image?  Hard to say. 

Something is up with the Dillards.  It could be medical, for either Jill or the baby,  it could be a relationship dynamic between she and Derick, it could be a conscious decision on their part to back away from the media and the show, it could be disillusionment with their lifestyle and their choices.  In other words, it could be any number of things, but I really do think we probably all agree that something is not normal for them.  Something has changed.  I worry that Derick is very troubled and I worry that he will doubledown on the extremism and drag poor Jill into a long and dreary life.  Perhaps JB, who seemed to favor Jill, will have enough insight to notice that Derick is in need of some guidance.  

 

As to manipulating,  absolutely kids will try to manipulate and saying "I love you" might be one way.  But Izzy is too young for that.  I remember my kids trying to butter me up by being extra lovey dovey when they were grade school age.  "Mommy,  I love you soooo much,  Can we go to the pool?"  but a toddler who says I love you is not being manipulative, they are being sweet.   

The good news is that if Izzy said "I love you" it means that he has heard someone say that to him.  So  That is reassuring, but for Derick to assign an agenda to a toddler like that is pathetic and shows he is clueless about child development and bonding.