Dillards 32: To VBAC or not to VBAC

[marmalade]

10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

She more than likely never signed any paperwork when she was illicitly playing midwife.  She wasn't legally allowed to do that and it would have been a red flag for the state.  The parents would have filed their own paperwork for an unattended birth. 

Thanks. I was wondering how it worked for unattended births, but assumed that a dould could sign off. Better that they can't. 

[Rachel333]

16 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

She more than likely never signed any paperwork when she was illicitly playing midwife.  She wasn't legally allowed to do that and it would have been a red flag for the state.  The parents would have filed their own paperwork for an unattended birth. 

She often had her husband there with her too, so he might have been the one to sign paperwork.

[Eternalbluepearl]

19 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

She more than likely never signed any paperwork when she was illicitly playing midwife.  She wasn't legally allowed to do that and it would have been a red flag for the state.  The parents would have filed their own paperwork for an unattended birth. 

Why would anyone, especially first time moms feel comfortable with that? It doesn't compute. Something strange in the state of Arkansas. 

[2manyKidzzz]

The only reason I am concerned about a safe delivery for Jillymuffin, is the thought of a home birth. 

And indeed there is concern based on her last delivery. Holy cow. 

[BabyBottlePop]

Maybe TLC will hide the midwife the way they did Joshley at JinJer's wedding. A gleam of light, a conveniently placed Marcus...

[Coconut Flan]

12 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

She often had her husband there with her too, so he might have been the one to sign paperwork.

Was he shown on TV or the family ever said he was there?

8 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Why would anyone, especially first time moms feel comfortable with that? It doesn't compute. Something strange in the state of Arkansas. 

Something is wrong about the Duggars and others like them in NWA that they thought having an untrained and unlicensed person delivering their babies was a fine thing to do.  I doubt anyone except Theresa knows how many times she ducked out the back door before the ambulance pulled to the front.

[Rachel333]

12 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Was he shown on TV or the family ever said he was there?

I don't think he was ever shown on tv at a birth, I just personally know a lot of people who had them both at their home births.

[FakePigtails]

This thread has previous discussions of the midwife issues in Arkansas, including the Fedosky "doula" crap. I thought we discussed the legality of what she did in there but I'm not able to look through for it right now.

 

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

On a lighter note, I take offense at asking her to have more sense than a domesticated animal because my cats are way smarter than her. 

No no, I want Rufus to BLESS her with that sense this time because last time she didn't show the sense of a pet rock! 

I would NEVER insult cats by insinuating they mother like a Duggar! 

 

[HarryPotterFan]

7 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

No no, I want Rufus to BLESS her with that sense this time because last time she didn't show the sense of a pet rock! 

I would NEVER insult cats by insinuating they mother like a Duggar! 

 

Very true. Pet rocks are much more sensible.

May she love and care for her baby like this mama cat:

 

[Helena Handbaket]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

She often had her husband there with her too, so he might have been the one to sign paperwork.

 

1 hour ago, marmalade said:

Thanks. I was wondering how it worked for unattended births, but assumed that a dould could sign off. Better that they can't. 

I remember the episode when Michael was a week old and had to take him to Dr. Fedosky for bloodwork, BECAUSE HIS BIRTH WAS UNATTENDED!! So, clearly, he was not there at the birth, nor was any person that could sign the paperwork.

[Rachel333]

11 minutes ago, Helena Handbaket said:

 

I remember the episode when Michael was a week old and had to take him to Dr. Fedosky for bloodwork, BECAUSE HIS BIRTH WAS UNATTENDED!! So, clearly, he was not there at the birth, nor was any person that could sign the paperwork.

Yeah, there's no question that Teresa has attended births alone despite her lack of qualifications. We weren't talking about paperwork for a specific birth; I was just saying that her husband is often (but not always) with her at the home births.

The scary thing is that it is apparently legal for someone like Teresa to attend births alone if they're not actually claiming to be doing it as a medical professional. She presents herself as being like a midwife but she charges for her "services" as a doula, not as a midwife. (Or at least that's what she did for years--I don't know if that has changed now that she is apparently getting midwife training.)

[nickelodeon]

I hope Jill shells out for a real midwife with the resources and skills to care for her whether the birth goes perfectly or not. Relying on unqualified randos from her birthing classes seems like a bad idea.

[ItsMeY'all]

How soon into labor did Jill call the midwife last time? Do we know? Not to say that her midwife was great or even qualified, but could it be that Jill wasn't going to call her until contractions reached a certain duration/frequency/regularity, or she was in transition or something of the like and since that point hadn't been reached no one had yet called?  Do we even know that the midwife knew Jill had been in labor for 243 years? Did Derick and Michelle just figure Jill knew her own body better than they did or something like that and didn't bother to call anyone until Jill told them to? Maybe they were also just waiting to reach a predetermined point to call the midwife? Was this lady really dumb enough to risk such a high profile delivery in this way? You don't have to be even remotely competent as a midwife to know Jill and Izzy were in trouble so it just seems like there had to be more going on. 

[Bethella]

13 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

I hope Jill shells out for a real midwife with the resources and skills to care for her whether the birth goes perfectly or not. Relying on unqualified randos from her birthing classes seems like a bad idea.

She can't have a real lay midwife because it's against the state midwife regulations. Her options are to have an unassisted birth, give birth in a hospital with a doctor or go to another state where there are different midwife regulations.

4 hours ago, marmalade said:

Since Fedosky is now on the list of apprentice midwives, she couldn't have attended Jessa's birth without her mentor midwife present, otherwise I imagine she would have been breaking the law. 

Theresa isn't listed on the currently list of apprentice midwives (updated 6/28). When did you see her listed?

[sansan]

10 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

I just feel that Michelle is shrinking more in every photo I see of her. Menopause? 

I don't think I have seen her look as unattractive as she does in the Fourth Of July group picture. I have to wonder what she thinks when she looks in a mirror.

[Kangaroo]

I sincerely hope that Jill (Or Derek) decide that this birth needs to go better, and that if she wants to attempt a VBAC, it's got to be in a hospital.

If she wants to pump out a million Jesus blessings, birth future kids in Central America or beat Jessa, emergency C sections are not the way to increase those odds.

But mostly for the sake of Jill and the baby being healthy, I hope they go for the overly cautious route. There is no shame in giving birth in a hospital. I don't think god is going to be angry because you put the health of your unborn child against your desire to birth at home.

 

As for the unregistered midwives, I'm sure any of them could simply show up as a "Friend" and not as a midwife. Given that half the sisters, parents and other assorted relatives tend to show up anyway, you could easily say they aren't there in any sort of legal or official capacity.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm gonna say July 10th c/section and 10 lbs 4 oz. I think her labor will be long like with Izzy and I agree I think little Sammy is transverse as well.  But jillymuffin is too stupid to know this and won't go to the hospital until well after her water breaks. 

[Shadoewolf]

2 hours ago, ItsMeY'all said:

How soon into labor did Jill call the midwife last time? Do we know? predetermined point to call the midwife? Was this lady really dumb enough to risk such a high profile delivery in this way? You don't have to be even remotely competent as a midwife to know Jill and Izzy were in trouble so it just seems like there had to be more going on. 

Snipped. 

It was revealed (in People I think)  that Jill was labor for days, didn't call her midwife until way later, and chose of her own accord to use castor oil (which "could" have brought about Izzy's meconium staining).  Their complete lack of sense RE: Izzy's birth was commented on for like 20 pages when he was born.  I think that's why people are seriously worried about this delivery. After their last round of stupidity and the law which forbids a licensed midwife from attending a home VBAC, there's strong belief Jill will still attempt it. 

*Editted to add, I just saw the pic everyone was talking about. Owch on Jills waistband! Ugh I carried way up front with my 3rd and there's no way I'd tolerate something being tight. Dill#2 is looking to have dropped a bit, I could see it being soon. It's hard to admit, but Michelle looks good in that pic. And please don't flog me, Izzy is cute and all, but there is just something off about him, can't put my finger on it. 

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, Kangaroo said:

As for the unregistered midwives, I'm sure any of them could simply show up as a "Friend" and not as a midwife. Given that half the sisters, parents and other assorted relatives tend to show up anyway, you could easily say they aren't there in any sort of legal or official capacity.

I'm not a Degreed Legal Professional, but I think they would still run the risk of being charged with practicing medicine without a license, especially if the state could prove that there was a pattern of attending births or providing medical care.

[LacyMay]

Add me to the chorus of voices who are seriously concerned about the well-being of Jill and this baby. I think attempting a VBAC at home is just asking/begging for something serious and potentially tragic to happen. 

I sincerely hope someone has talked some sense into her, I certainly don't think Michelle is in line for any MotY awards. But given her willingness to have hospital births, I would hope she has thought to sit down with Jill and have a heart to heart encouraging her to sacrifice her perfect home birth for the well being of her baby. 

Of course I'm probably just overly hopeful. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

7 hours ago, sansan said:

I don't think I have seen her look as unattractive as she does in the Fourth Of July group picture. I have to wonder what she thinks when she looks in a mirror.

No idea how old you are, or what your situation is - but this is cruel. Picking on someone for the way they look is just mean. I'm in full-bore menopause, and have been for the past 10 years (surgically, due to cancer). My skin looks awful, I have wrinkles, and my eyes are droopy. Guess what I think when I look in a mirror? Yeah - it sucks.

[backyard sylph]

37 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

No idea how old you are, or what your situation is - but this is cruel. Picking on someone for the way they look is just mean. I'm in full-bore menopause, and have been for the past 10 years (surgically, due to cancer). My skin looks awful, I have wrinkles, and my eyes are droopy. Guess what I think when I look in a mirror? Yeah - it sucks.

No kidding. I look in the mirror straight on actually, and think, well, that's all right, I guess. Then I catch depressing sight of my sagging profile which makes me look ten years older, attempting to do something to offset it with my once shiny bouncy hair that now just wants to be frizzy and dull, and that's after figuring out what to wear that I can still enjoy but will drape over the expanded middle that won't obey me. And then I try to remember no one really cares but me...

Sure, I'd like to see her update her 1980s hairstyle and mall deli uniform clothing style, but that's who she is, I guess; the rest is another matter entirely.

[Eternalbluepearl]

6 hours ago, Bethella said:

I'm not a Degreed Legal Professional, but I think they would still run the risk of being charged with practicing medicine without a license, especially if the state could prove that there was a pattern of attending births or providing medical care.

Seriously. I never knew this stuff went on. I had no idea Theresa so-and-so's were out there playing baby doctor at fundy home births then having the births reported as unattended. It's bizarre. But then again, this might be the type of "midwife" job that Jill aspires to. Who knows. Nothing is ever on the up and up in Duggar-land. 

[SamiKatz]

8 hours ago, sansan said:

I don't think I have seen her look as unattractive as she does in the Fourth Of July group picture. I have to wonder what she thinks when she looks in a mirror.

Maybe she thinks she looks okay for someone who gave birth to 19 kids? 

Seriously, she looks fine in that photo.  I just don't get the "snarking" on this site on the looks of any of these people, or what they do/do not wear, or whether they wash their feet.

It's a cult that devalues woman and anyone else who does not walk on the narrow life view path they are on.  What they look like is the least of the issues people should be having with them.

58 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

No idea how old you are, or what your situation is - but this is cruel. Picking on someone for the way they look is just mean. I'm in full-bore menopause, and have been for the past 10 years (surgically, due to cancer). My skin looks awful, I have wrinkles, and my eyes are droopy. Guess what I think when I look in a mirror? Yeah - it sucks.

What you should be thinking when you look in the mirror is you're a bad ass who survived cancer, and f*ck anyone who even thinks your skin looks awful, you have wrinkles and your eyes are droopy.