Lori Alexander 19: Hating Birth Control, Consistency, and Logic

[Koala]

4 minutes ago, onemama said:

I don't understand why women keep trying to get the Lori Seal Of Approval.

It's crazy.  I see women write things like, "Would _______ be okay?"  or "Is it okay if I ___________".  

I can't for the life of me figure out why they think they need Lori's approval for anything.  She doesn't even run her own life well.  

When Lori said that she spends her days as an older woman "monitoring" the women in the chat room, I was speechless.  What kind of person thinks that they need to be available to "monitor" other adults?

6 minutes ago, Hisey said:

She is always telling people to work hard, yet she herself doesn't do anything that might leave her "exhausted". And she seems to get exhausted at the drop of a hat.

Right.  She couldn't even be bothered to feed her babies at night, because she needed her sleep.  They had to be in their rooms in the afternoon, because she needed rest.  She hit them with a strap, because it was too tiring for her to spend time parenting any other way.  Hell, she even brags about not doing a bedtime routine for them, because she didn't feel like it.

It's all about Lori, and what's easiest for her.  

Even in her videos she mentions that she'd prefer peace and quiet, but she doesn't always get it because sometimes she has her grandchildren over.

She is spoiled absolutely rotten.  

[crawfishgirl]

We have "electronic time-outs" when needed.  There is nothing worse to teenage girls than taking away their cell phones (and to a much lesser extent, the tv, tablet, etc).  Just the thought of not being able to text their friends makes them 'dramatically' ill.  Due to this possible consequence, we have not needed to actually do this time-out in a couple of years - they are generally well-behaved.  Lori - it is possible to parent without pain and nastiness!

[usmcmom]

29 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

We have "electronic time-outs" when needed.  There is nothing worse to teenage girls than taking away their cell phones (and to a much lesser extent, the tv, tablet, etc).  Just the thought of not being able to text their friends makes them 'dramatically' ill.  Due to this possible consequence, we have not needed to actually do this time-out in a couple of years - they are generally well-behaved.  Lori - it is possible to parent without pain and nastiness!

We called it "Going Amish," as in "One more word and you're going to be Amish for three days."  If that one more word was uttered, all electronics were removed from their lives. For our son, the game unit (whatever it was called back then) was the biggest loss. For our daughter, it was the phone. It was actually somewhat humorous to watch her fall apart at the knowledge she would not be in contact with her friends for three days. You'd think we'd pushed her out of a helicopter on a deserted island. 

When our son was in middle school, writing essays was an especially heinous punishment for him. He HATED that. I only did that once to my daughter because she enjoyed it way too much and put little curly cues on her letters, dotted each "I" with a heart and drew flowers along the paper's border. Than she'd stand up and read her essay like she was at the academy awards and expected me to reward her.   No, that one did not work at all for her. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

Kelly C., Lori and others are death on "outward disobedience." Maybe that's because they have so many kids in such a short time. Personally, I just re-directed small children (small kids have no idea what they are doing anyway, half the time they are surprised when adults are upset with them). Older kids lost a privilege or a toy--something that might seem small to us but matters to them.. So much easier and no screaming.  I still do this. My 17 year old just broke a rule and lost the privilege of driving to school today. Seems like a small thing to me , but it really matters to her

You sound like my parents.  My mom, at least; my dad was a bit quicker to smack. Either way, we got warnings once we were old enough to heed them and the consequences were usually losing a privilege or cleaning up the mess we'd made. I have distinct memories of having to scrub a wall I'd drawn on once! And I know my mom's made comments about how you just redirect or move little babies. Guess what? A childhood of actions having consequences, even if the consequences weren't physical, means that we're all law-abiding citizens!

Honestly, all these comments about kitchens and appliances make me feel bad. We're starting on a redo of our kitchen (floor, sink, counters, paint, cupboard hardware, and adding a dishwasher). Most of it still works, minus one cupboard latch and the peeling floor tile. My only defense is that most of it was my husband's idea; I'd have settled for a fixed latch and a new floor.

[polecat]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

elly C., Lori and others are death on "outward disobedience." Maybe that's because they have so many kids in such a short time. Personally, I just re-directed small children (small kids have no idea what they are doing anyway, half the time they are surprised when adults are upset with them). Older kids lost a privilege or a toy--something that might seem small to us but matters to them.. So much easier and no screaming.  I still do this. My 17 year old just broke a rule and lost the privilege of driving to school today. Seems like a small thing to me , but it really matters to her

(snipped for brevity)

I had three kids in less than three years, and "outward disobedience" was the furthest thing from my mind. I was more concerned with teaching them how to make good choices. The early years are difficult and exhausting simply because small children are difficult and exhausting, and I had them so very close together (and I was not super duper young when I had them, either). But apart from that? Children *want* to please, generally speaking, and so you find what works for that child and go with it. Of course, that involves knowing your children and taking time with them. Redirection helps far more than punishment when they're small. Then a little older, you give them choices -- both acceptable choices for both of you, but it gives them freedom to make a choice (do you want mommy or daddy to help you pick up the raisins? Shall we play a game or sing a song while we clean up?). And lost privileges can sting, but they do help kids learn cause-and-effect, consequences, etc. 

But fundies have one child-rearing tool: Spanking. And they spank for everything -- dropping food, blowing raspberries, looking askance, lying, slapping a sibling, cheating on a test, staying out past curvew, molesting your sister. All crimes (and thought crimes) are equal in the eyes of your parents and God -- so do what you want, and pay the piper as you will. Spanking hurts, yes, but it's a temporary hurt, and all will be forgiven once it's over.

[Flossie]

I have some issues with my parents, but I have good memories, too.  One time my mom painted our ONE tiny bathroom, the one that five kids and two adults used.  She was constantly having to stop painting because someone needed to use it or she had to go cook, clean, etc.  When she finally finished, I went in and realized that the latex paint wasn't fully dry.  I scratched "I love you Mom" into the paint.  Mom found out when one of my older siblings saw it and it was only then that I realized that scratching messages into drying paint wasn't a good idea.  I was about 7 at the time.

We kids gathered in the hallway while Mom surveyed the damage.  The older kids were glaring at me while watching to see what Mom did.  The younger kids didn't understand what was happening and just looked confused.  I was a troubled, quivering mess.  Mom sighed, turned to us, and told us to go play "And stop touching the walls until they're dry!"

The next day she repainted the wall.  To this day, if you know where to look, you can see my message under the new coats of paint that have been applied to that wall over the last 45 years.  It's latex paint over tile.  Mom has remodeled that bathroom many times over the years, but she won't scrape the paint off and start fresh.  Excuse me, I have to call my mother.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

"One more word and you're going to be Amish for three days."  

I am going to start using this phrase with my kids. LOVE IT! Thank you for the real parenting advice.

[onekidanddone]

2 hours ago, usmcmom said:

We called it "Going Amish," as in "One more word and you're going to be Amish for three days."  If that one more word was uttered, all electronics were removed from their lives. For our son, the game unit (whatever it was called back then) was the biggest loss. For our daughter, it was the phone. It was actually somewhat humorous to watch her fall apart at the knowledge she would not be in contact with her friends for three days. You'd think we'd pushed her out of a helicopter on a deserted island. 

When our son was in middle school, writing essays was an especially heinous punishment for him. He HATED that. I only did that once to my daughter because she enjoyed it way too much and put little curly cues on her letters, dotted each "I" with a heart and drew flowers along the paper's border. Than she'd stand up and read her essay like she was at the academy awards and expected me to reward her.   No, that one did not work at all for her. 

My sister's daughters never had the latest and greatest technology, and tiny TV which didn't work very well.  They complained that they were the "Amish on the block".

When my daughter's screen time taken away for a weekend she defied us and went on-line wile we were out. When husband checked the logs and found out, we extended it for an entire week. Aaaaaand you guessed it, she did it again. With yet one more week added she blamed her dad. She cried it was his fault because "He knows how to look at the logs of what I'm doing".  Huh?  Yea, that excuse fell flat.  

One more:  Another time she didn't do any of her (very simple and easy) chores, and stepped over the line with her behavior.  I just stood there looking at her as she walked into her room, retrieved her phone and handed it to me.

I sometimes have to hold my  breath and walk out of the room so she won't see me laughing. I love her to pieces, and I know she is upset, but 13 year old over the top hissy fits can be funny.  How did my own parents ever survive mine?

[usmcmom]

My son came home from his friend's house once and said "His parents took the door off of his sister's room!!!!"  He said it like he was in awe of the idea yet terrified we might do it to him or his sister. Evidently the teenage girl had slammed her door one too many times. 

You better believe we tucked that idea away for future use; but we never had to use it. 

[smittykins]

On the old Discovery Health series Adoption Stories, a gay male couple who adopted a nine-year-old girl did just that.  "I got my door taken off three times," she said.  "I learned not to slam it anymore."

Recently, I've been working my way through the archives of the Stuff Fundies Like blog, and one of the major spank-able offenses is "bad attitude." There's some stories there that will break your heart. 

 

[EowynW]

9 minutes ago, smittykins said:

On the old Discovery Health series Adoption Stories, a gay male couple who adopted a nine-year-old girl did just that.  "I got my door taken off three times," she said.  "I learned not to slam it anymore."

Recently, I've been working my way through the archives of the Stuff Fundies Like blog, and one of the major spank-able offenses is "bad attitude." There's some stories there that will break your heart. 

 

SFl Like is an awesome site. The first place I found community after leaving fundiedom. 

[SuperNova]

Whether it's Lori's children, spouse, or the women that subject themselves to her in the chat room, it seems she uses the ol' stick and carrot approach to discipline. The carrot being her approval that is rubber stamped by god himself. The catch? No one can actually get her approval. The one exception being Steven the Steadfast Son. Or beatings. Beatings work too if your not concerned about silly stuff like self esteem. 

[polecat]

20 minutes ago, EowynW said:

SFl Like is an awesome site. The first place I found community after leaving fundiedom. 

Me, too. I hope the site owner has a lot of good karma coming his way for creating it.  

[Flossie]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

My son came home from his friend's house once and said "His parents took the door off of his sister's room!!!!"  He said it like he was in awe of the idea yet terrified we might do it to him or his sister. 

My kids lost their door in favor of a curtain after they swung on the door too many times and we had to replace it.  We told them if it happened again we wouldn't replace it.  They did it again, broke the new door, and you get the rest.

They still remember when I hired "The Maid".  I was tired of telling them to clean their room.  Toys everywhere, clothes everywhere, candy wrappers or school papers everywhere.  They'd pick up a few things and call it done.  I'd have to go in there and pick up stuff, show them where it went, make them help me while they pouted.  I didn't even require it every day.  Every Saturday, to vacuum, was enough, as long as I didn't step on Legos when I went in to check on them at night.  It was a constant struggle.

I got an idea from a parenting magazine.  One Saturday I told the kids that they had to clean their room without me and I'd give each of them a dollar, but they'd have to clean their room to my standards.  If they didn't clean properly, I'd bring in a maid to clean for them, but reminded them that maids get paid.  They cleaned a bit better than usual.  I checked the room once and pointed out what they'd missed.  Then I gave them their money, in nickles, and told them the maid would be there in a few minutes.  You'd think they'd clean up some more, but they didn't.  They lounged around and talked about how there wasn't a maid coming in, and what they were going to spend their money on.

I walked in the room and announced I was the maid.  Those kids had to sit there and pay back a nickle for each toy I picked up, each piece of clothing I had to hang up, fold up, or put in the laundry basket.  By the time I got to the papers they were crying to the point of hysterics.  I felt bad and let them keep the rest of their money, as long as they finished cleaning.  To this day the older kids remember The Maid.  It's one of their favorite stories.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Onekidanddone, I feel you on the tween girl drama! My kid can yell and be upset over nothing and then she says, "can we just make up already? I'm sorry. Let's forget it happened." 

I look at her in awe cause she were just screaming and looking like she might stroke out and that's it? Are you crazy? But she knows I'll love her no matter what and I remember screaming at my own mom for a year or so when I was 14.

in my experience with spanked kids, one type will tell you "I don't care. It didn't hurt!." And the other type will just die at even the threat of being spanked. But theses kids were only spanked when they did something wrong, not as a recreational activity for the parents! We spanked my kid once and she still resents it, 7 years later.

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

My son came home from his friend's house once and said "His parents took the door off of his sister's room!!!!"  He said it like he was in awe of the idea yet terrified we might do it to him or his sister. Evidently the teenage girl had slammed her door one too many times. 

You better believe we tucked that idea away for future use; but we never had to use it. 

Yup.  I knew somebody who did that to there 12 year old.  I keep it in mind as well.

[usmcmom]

One time I went into the bathroom my kids shared and started to clean it. I found FOURTEEN towels in various corners of the room, and it is a TINY bathroom. They were in high school sports so both showered a lot but we had provided several towel racks and told them to limit their towels - hang them up to dry, etc.  I thought my head was going to explode!!  

I took a roll of paper towels up there and left it on the sink with a very formal letter stating that if "The Management" found their bathroom in such a state again, they would be issued paper towels for drying. 

I knew when my daughter had read it because she says "Uh. SHE CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!"  I yelled up the steps "Oh yes she is serious!" 

My son's response was just "Really?!? REALLY?!?" And I replied. "Yes, really!"  

The towels were hung up neatly after that, they used a proper number, and made sure the dirty ones made it to the laundry  

My kids actually give me props for that one now. As adults, they find it very impressive. 

[Evangeline]

16 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

One time I went into the bathroom my kids shared and started to clean it. I found FOURTEEN towels in various corners of the room, and it is a TINY bathroom. They were in high school sports so both showered a lot but we had provided several towel racks and told them to limit their towels - hang them up to dry, etc.  I thought my head was going to explode!!  

I took a roll of paper towels up there and left it on the sink with a very formal letter stating that if "The Management" found their bathroom in such a state again, they would be issued paper towels for drying. 

I knew when my daughter had read it because she says "Uh. SHE CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!"  I yelled up the steps "Oh yes she is serious!" 

My son's response was just "Really?!? REALLY?!?" And I replied. "Yes, really!"  

The towels were hung up neatly after that, they used a proper number, and made sure the dirty ones made it to the laundry  

My kids actually give me props for that one now. As adults, they find it very impressive. 

This is gold. We also have a major towel problem due to sports. If it gets any worse, I may have to do this. Bonus: I buy cheap paper towels from Aldi.

[Free Jana Duggar]

Evil women's retreat update:

I've been with these lovely ladies since 9:30am and we just finished supper. The only one to even mention her husband was to be positive and tell us how nice he had been to pack her a bag of snacks.  Conversation has mainly consisted of what classes we are taking while here and what our children will be doing for the summer and how fast kids grow (one lady has a newborn).  Another lady talked about looking for a house on Zillow.  But no gossip or husband bashing.

[polecat]

2 hours ago, Evangeline said:

This is gold. We also have a major towel problem due to sports. If it gets any worse, I may have to do this. Bonus: I buy cheap paper towels from Aldi.

We had a towel problem until this past month. I don't want to say it's solved, but, knock on wood, so far, there haven't been any new offenses. I've assigned them each specific colors (this wouldn't work in single color towel families), so I know exactly who the offender is IF there is an offense. Then, if someone goes hog wild on the towels OR uses a towel just once, hotel-style, and expects me to wash it after that one use, they get a choice. They can either air dry until towel laundry day OR they can pay me to do a single load of their towel laundry.

The idea of flashing through the house stark naked while air drying (or having to fork over their precious cash) put the fear of mom in them enough that everyone has veeeerrrrry carefully guarded his towels ever since. I don't make idle threats, lol. 

[EowynW]

I'm usually an Elisabeth Elliot fan (except for her out dated dating and women's roles views) but that quote L. posted today kind of creeped me out. 

9 hours ago, Hisey said:

No reason to feel guilty. He terrified you at the age of 10, and threatened to abandon you. Of course, he's not your hero. Generally, dads who are "heros" to their daughters provide consistent, appropriate discipline and don't freak out if their 10 year old challenges their authority.

Yea. I know my dad loves/does love me but he is so (most likely not on purpose)  sexists, misogynist and patriarchal it just tainted my life in many ways 

[Hisey]

25 minutes ago, EowynW said:

I'm usually an Elisabeth Elliot fan (except for her out dated dating and women's roles views) but that quote L. posted today kind of creeped me out. 

Yea. I know my dad loves/does love me but he is so (most likely not on purpose)  sexists, misogynist and patriarchal it just tainted my life in many ways 

Sure, and I hope it didn't appear like I was trying to trash him, I don't even know him. I just think that when parents act badly and then don't deal with it (by apologizing or at least admitting they were wrong), then it does affect how their kids feel about them, even in a relationship that is otherwise loving.

Why is it that Lori's posts about childrearing always contains Bible verses about discipline, rods, etc.? Is that all the Bible has to say about raising kids? (I really am asking, I don't know). Has she nothing else to say about childrearing besides "discipline"? Because we already know how infants need pinches and flicks so that they can grow up to be godly men and women with sad eyes (like Lori's kids).  

Seriously, Steven and Cassi have the saddest eyes, and Ryan seems so defeated. Alyssa is the only one with any life and happiness to her. Interestingly, Alyssa left home at 18.

 

[Hane]

3 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Evil women's retreat update:

I've been with these lovely ladies since 9:30am and we just finished supper. The only one to even mention her husband was to be positive and tell us how nice he had been to pack her a bag of snacks.  Conversation has mainly consisted of what classes we are taking while here and what our children will be doing for the summer and how fast kids grow (one lady has a newborn).  Another lady talked about looking for a house on Zillow.  But no gossip or husband bashing.

This reminds me of a convo with a colleague: I told her I'd just been in a play with a large, all-female cast, and before I had a chance to say how much I'd enjoyed it, she started going on and in about how bitchy women could get. I thought, "My God--what kind of women do you hang around with?"

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

Sure, and I hope it didn't appear like I was trying to trash him, I don't even know him. I just think that when parents act badly and then don't deal with it (by apologizing or at least admitting they were wrong), then it does affect how their kids feel about them, even in a relationship that is otherwise loving.

Why is it that Lori's posts about childrearing always contains Bible verses about discipline, rods, etc.? Is that all the Bible has to say about raising kids? (I really am asking, I don't know). Has she nothing else to say about childrearing besides "discipline"? Because we already know how infants need pinches and flicks so that they can grow up to be godly men and women with sad eyes (like Lori's kids).  

Seriously, Steven and Cassi have the saddest eyes, and Ryan seems so defeated. Alyssa is the only one with any life and happiness to her. Interestingly, Alyssa left home at 18.

 

No I agree completely. To this day my parents refuse to apologize or admit they were wrong/misguided about anything. All they say is "you know why we did it and howcome." Blech. 

[Hisey]

2 minutes ago, EowynW said:

No I agree completely. To this day my parents refuse to apologize or admit they were wrong/misguided about anything. All they say is "you know why we did it and howcome." Bleach. 

I feel for you, I endured gaslighting like that my entire life. It does not improve a relationship. With my own kids, I tried very hard to acknowledge when I was wrong and apologize. Sometimes, when facing off with an indignant adolescent, I went overboard and apologized even for things that were not really my fault (or were like 5% my fault). I told myself I was modeling for her how to apologize. I may have just been overcompensating for my own childhood.