Jill, Derick, Israel and the latest Dillard- Part 23

[SweetFellowshipper]

1 hour ago, ClaraOswin said:

Thankfully, not all hospitals and doctors are like the ones you describe. There are many that are fantastic. Where you are allowed more freedom in your birth experience. And really, one should know what their doctor is like well before giving birth. So if someone has a crappy OB-GYN who is more about "scheduling"...then they have 9 months to figure that out and find a new doctor. In many cases, people know their OB-GYN for years before even getting pregnant. So it's important to find a doctor you like and trust. I have one who is freaking great.

I see giving birth in a hospital setting basically like having a safety net.

Yes, not all are like that and I said that, but mine is far from a rare experience and I do believe it's a widespread problem, which is partly why so many women are choosing different options. The statistics about various hospitals and their overly frequent use of C sections/pushing women to be induced, as well as the number of women who report feeling rushed, pressured or downright abused during their birth experiences, show that IMO. It's far from an anomaly. And while I agree that in an ideal situation you can choose the ob/gyn that works for you, you don't have that option with all insurance plans (I wouldn't get to choose with mine, for example, I'd be told, and I don't have terrible insurance) and I think that places the blame a bit more on the patients rather than the doctors who are truly responsible. It should not be happening at all.

If you give birth in a birthing center attached to a hospital, you still have that "safety net" as you say. Also, midwives also attend hospital births. They are trained medical professionals (unless they're Jill). So there are a wide spectrum of options. My midwife has more years of and more prestigious schooling than my ob/gyn.

The bottom line is that choice is wonderful. If you feel great with your hospital and ob/gyn, that's awesome. I don't think there's one right way, at all. That's not my point. But I do think it's important to shed light on why so many women are choosing options like certified nurse midwives because I see a LOT of judgment or condescension about the choice, including from FJ, or an assumption that if you're educated/have done your research that you'd *obviously* go to a hospital and be attended by a doctor. I get a little sick of seeing the assumptions so my statements are a response to those. This isn't like the vaccination issue which I consider to be fairly black and white...No research suggests that vaccines are dangerous, but plenty of research supports the safety of various birthing options. Since I'm pro choice, I support *all* of those choices.

[FakePigtails]

16 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

But I do think it's important to shed light on why so many women are choosing options like certified nurse midwives because I see a LOT of judgment or condescension about the choice, including from FJ, or an assumption that if you're educated/have done your research that you'd *obviously* go to a hospital and be attended by a doctor.

I'm a little confused here . . . there's definitely a strong pro-hospital bend here but I don't recall seeing people be anti-CNMs here, just anti lay and certified professional midwives. I've been a fan of CNMs for a while and began prenatal care with them over a year ago so comments against them would have stood out to me.

[ClaraOswin]

Birthing centers are probably not options in a lot of cities. Even in the larger city I live in, I am not sure if there's more than 1. And a year or two ago, it was in danger of closing.

At the time I had my son, the hospital had CNMs that worked with them. (Not sure if that's still the case. It's been over 3 years now.)

I think having many options is great. But it isn't the case for many places. For many, your choice is a home birth or a hospital birth. And I, personally, can't advocate for a home birth unless it is attended by a CNM (in my state, this was illegal, last I checked) and you are within minutes of a hospital. Again, those things often aren't an option. So those people need to find a hospital they feel comfortable in. Just my opinion, of course.

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

As for Jill, maybe she is nauseous from the pregnancy. And really, what do any of the girls have to do since they can't visit "friends" or go out alone or anything. And Michelle, well, what the hell she does with her time no one knows. 

I wonder what she does with her time and also what she did at Jill's house. I just can't see her cleaning or doing laundry. I bet the younger girls did the work while Jill and Michelle sat with their feet up. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

27 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

I'm a little confused here . . . there's definitely a strong pro-hospital bend here but I don't recall seeing people be anti-CNMs here, just anti lay and certified professional midwives. I've been a fan of CNMs for a while and began prenatal care with them over a year ago so comments against them would have stood out to me.

  I'm referring to all the comments like "why would anyone not choose a hospital birth," "hopefully she will come to her senses and  the next one will be with a doctor,"  etc., as if it's patently insane and there would be zero reason to do so unless someone was woefully uneducated or irresponsible. 

Of course, I understand we're talking about the Duggars here so they are not using medical professionals.

[FakePigtails]

1 minute ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

  I'm referring to all the comments like "why would anyone not choose a hospital birth," "hopefully she will come to her senses and  the next one will be with a doctor,"  etc., as if it's patently insane and there would be zero reason to do so unless someone was woefully uneducated or irresponsible. 

Of course, I understand we're talking about the Duggars here so they are not using medical professionals.

Ah, okay. I think part of that is that many people have no idea that there are nurse midwives practicing in hospitals so hospital = doctor. I wouldn't take that as anti-CNM at all. Many people just don't know what they are or that you can have a midwife-led birth in a hospital with them.

As for hoping the next one will be with a doctor, I'm assuming that's another vernacular issue where hospital = doctor because of how uncommon knowledge of CNMs practicing in hospitals is, and it's simply not legal for a midwife of any sort to care for Jill outside of a hospital.

I've never seen anyone have a problem with CNMs here except in a few cases in which CNMs who do home births among those who are against any home birth whatsoever. Midwives when used as a general term, absolutely, for good reason, but when specific to CNMs, they seem to be very well-supported here and in general.

IOW, I think what you're noticing is an anti-home birth and anti-shitty midwife vibe rather than an anti-CNM vibe.

[sta_sha]

2 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Jill posted on FB that her mom and sisters came to help with laundry and cleaning. 

 

I have no trouble believing that either Jana, Johannah, Jennifer or any of the lost girls went over to help with/do Jill's housework. But I certainly don't think Michelle did anything but but sit and watch.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

36 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

Ah, okay. I think part of that is that many people have no idea that there are nurse midwives practicing in hospitals so hospital = doctor. I wouldn't take that as anti-CNM at all. Many people just don't know what they are or that you can have a midwife-led birth in a hospital with them.

As for hoping the next one will be with a doctor, I'm assuming that's another vernacular issue where hospital = doctor because of how uncommon knowledge of CNMs practicing in hospitals is, and it's simply not legal for a midwife of any sort to care for Jill outside of a hospital.

I've never seen anyone have a problem with CNMs here except in a few cases in which CNMs who do home births among those who are against any home birth whatsoever. Midwives when used as a general term, absolutely, for good reason, but when specific to CNMs, they seem to be very well-supported here and in general.

IOW, I think what you're noticing is an anti-home birth and anti-shitty midwife vibe rather than an anti-CNM vibe.

I agree with this entirely actually but that's why I think it's important to let people know those options exist and to point out the inaccuracies in the assumptions. The number of CNMs and birth centers is growing exponentially and the number of babies born under them has grown 56% in the last few years, so I think it's important that people understand there are a spectrum of options and reasons to choose them (including real trauma experienced in hospital settings in some cases). It's not just Duggar vs. Dr/hospital.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, FakePigtails said:

I'm a little confused here . . . there's definitely a strong pro-hospital bend here but I don't recall seeing people be anti-CNMs here, just anti lay and certified professional midwives. I've been a fan of CNMs for a while and began prenatal care with them over a year ago so comments against them would have stood out to me.

That's the vibe I get. I'm personally all over hospitals/Robo-OB-GYNs who laser me open and give me enough drugs to write The Weeknd's next album (I kid, I kid), but I also recognize that that's my personal proclivities, and I think CNMs are awesome and the more choices there are for women during one of the most intimate and personal experiences of their lives, the better. If you want to give birth under the full moon while a CNM chants Ani DiFranco songs in A-minor and paints a reproduction of the Sistine Chapel ceiling with your placenta, you should be able to. If you want to get a C-section with men in nice white coats pumping you full of the good stuff, you should be able to. And if you want something in between those extremes, you should be able to do that.

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, sta_sha said:

I have no trouble believing that either Jana, Johannah, Jennifer or any of the lost girls went over to help with/do Jill's housework. But I certainly don't think Michelle did anything but but sit and watch.  

I am trying to understand why anyone went over to help. Derrick doesn't have a job and doesn't seem to do anything but play on social media. Why doesn't he do the laundry and cook the meals? Oh, I forgot he is a man and therefore of a protected class. He is probably sitting there on his phone while they vacuum around him. 

[season of life]

Derick was probably too busy looking like Jesus to do any chores.

[goldengrove]

1 hour ago, sta_sha said:

I have no trouble believing that either Jana, Johannah, Jennifer or any of the lost girls went over to help with/do Jill's housework. But I certainly don't think Michelle did anything but but sit and watch.  

...both Jill and Michelle, but I think they both might have reasons: morning sickness is not conducive to cleaning or cooking anything (just thinking about it jerks me right back 40+ years ago :S ugh.) Michelle has seemed zoned out to me for a while, could be pharmaceutical, mourning her fertility, possible physical problems (the curvature of her spine is alarming), we just don't know...I really hate to take up for either of them, but maybe it is a good thing that they have a family that will do the heavy lifting, etc., and keep up with Izzy as well

[FakePigtails]

I just posted a thing from the ACOG about planned home birth statistics here: 

 

[twinmama]

On 12/24/2016 at 6:08 PM, SassyPants said:

I doubt she has had Zika screening.

They personify "ignorance is bliss."

On 12/25/2016 at 11:46 AM, MoonFace said:

The issue might be that she doesn't want any male doctors checking out the holy HooHa. 

Not in a million years will I ever understand this. When I was in the hospital on bedrest, about to have my boys very very premature, I had male doctors I had never even met doing cervix checks. I could NOT have cared less because they were giving me info about the health and safety of my babies and their futures. How any woman gets through pregnancy and delivery of any kind with shame or modesty in tact I have no idea.

On 12/25/2016 at 8:19 PM, Scribber said:

On the topic of emergency cesareans, I had one (pre-eclampsia verging toward eclampsia, baby plummeted heart rate, etc) I had been attempting natural labor for the previous 20 hours.

It was 30'minutes from decision to birth, and that included bringing my doctor in at midnight, getting a spinal and delivering.

They told me it's incredibly rare to have to go with anything other than a spinal. Even in dire emergencies.

Just to add, I also went from decision to birth in under an hour and had a spinal for delivery. General when I couldn't stop coughing (had the cough from 25 weeks til after delivery) and was bleeding and they couldn't figure out where from. Even in under an hour there was plenty of time to do the spinal, no one was even running around that I saw. 

[ClaraOswin]

5 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

  I'm referring to all the comments like "why would anyone not choose a hospital birth," "hopefully she will come to her senses and  the next one will be with a doctor,"  etc., as if it's patently insane and there would be zero reason to do so unless someone was woefully uneducated or irresponsible. 

Of course, I understand we're talking about the Duggars here so they are not using medical professionals.

So you don't think it would be wise for a woman with Jill's history to go to a hospital for her next delivery?!

2 hours ago, twinmama said:

They personify "ignorance is bliss."

Not in a million years will I ever understand this. When I was in the hospital on bedrest, about to have my boys very very premature, I had male doctors I had never even met doing cervix checks. I could NOT have cared less because they were giving me info about the health and safety of my babies and their futures. How any woman gets through pregnancy and delivery of any kind with shame or modesty in tact I have no idea.

Just to add, I also went from decision to birth in under an hour and had a spinal for delivery. General when I couldn't stop coughing (had the cough from 25 weeks til after delivery) and was bleeding and they couldn't figure out where from. Even in under an hour there was plenty of time to do the spinal, no one was even running around that I saw. 

I don't understand the anti-male doctor thing either. After having my son, the nurses would have to come in to push on my belly and check my pad for blood (TMI? Eh, whatever.) They asked if it was okay for some nursing students to do it a few times. One was a male nursing student. That didn't bother me at all. (My ob-gyn is also male.) But he definitely seemed a bit uncomfortable with this "rotation" or whatever you call it. It was the beginning of the school year so this was very new for him. I remember thinking that in a few years...I bet very little would make him uncomfortable. (He was also black...so I wonder if the Duggars would freak about that too? Ha!)

[anotherone]

On 12/24/2016 at 2:24 AM, llg1234 said:

 

I hope my thought process is wrong and I REALLY hope there isn't an issue with the baby. Mostly because if there's anyone who's ill equipped to raise a special needs child, it's a Duggar. 

Also think of how that might influence the leghumpers.  I can imagine some woman might be less cautious because look, if you really believe, then Jesus will take care of everything and all will be well.  Just like if you go ahead and have 19 kids, God will provide and give you a huge house and lots of money.

[anotherone]

On 12/26/2016 at 8:55 PM, Jessalyn said:

As horrible as that decision was, it still goes along with avoiding drastic medical procedures because it goes against Gods plan. Same with being against abortions. Any intervention is an insult to God 

Then why even go to the dentist?  Isn't a root canal an intervention and insulting God?  Like I'm not accepting the faulty teeth he gave me, or whatever?  Or wearing glasses for that matter?

On 12/27/2016 at 10:30 AM, Jinder Roles said:

Ugh I hope Jill is rational enough to go to a hospital. Even J'chelle had most of her births at a hospital because she was considered high risk (due to number of pregnancies, age and C-section) 

 

But she was already holy.  She already proved herself with already having 9 or whatever number she was up to when they started getting media attention.

[GotCaughtDancing]

3 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Then why even go to the dentist?  Isn't a root canal an intervention and insulting God?  Like I'm not accepting the faulty teeth he gave me, or whatever?  Or wearing glasses for that matter?

The old pick and choose what applies?

[Shadoewolf]

We live near a very upscale area where the homes range into the millions and run 4,000+ square feet. While I always ogle them and wish, I've also said I would have to hire a maid because cleaning a house that size would be too much work for one person let alone a hockey/soccer/choir mom like myself. Now think a house Jill's size with an active toddler and morning sickness, I can see the sibs helping out for now.

[BeaSnarky]

14 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

That's the vibe I get. I'm personally all over hospitals/Robo-OB-GYNs who laser me open and give me enough drugs to write The Weeknd's next album (I kid, I kid), but I also recognize that that's my personal proclivities, and I think CNMs are awesome and the more choices there are for women during one of the most intimate and personal experiences of their lives, the better. If you want to give birth under the full moon while a CNM chants Ani DiFranco songs in A-minor and paints a reproduction of the Sistine Chapel ceiling with your placenta, you should be able to. If you want to get a C-section with men in nice white coats pumping you full of the good stuff, you should be able to. And if you want something in between those extremes, you should be able to do that.

Amen.  Until my cancer diagnosis, I was seen only by a CNM (who had hospital privileges).  Once I had my cancer diagnosis, she was no longer able to treat me, and I ended up with a doc (and at that point, I didn't care if the doctor was male, female, or alien as long as they got the cancer out).

I am not sure that all of the Duggars are against prenatal care - Michelle did see a regular OBGYN for most of her pregnancies.  I think since the girls got on the midwife/doula kick the prenatal care slacked off.  I remember Anna seeing Michelle's OBGYN for Kynzie.

I am not going to jump on the train AGAINST Jill yet - we don't know for sure that she's had no screenings, nor that she's ignoring prenatal care - I mean, she is pretty early on in her pregnancy, and she may not be publishing all the things about it because "I'm on TV, let's only show the good things."

I am kind of squicky about everyone automatically jumping to the worst conclusions about her pregnancy.  I can snark on a lot of things about the Duggars but I will not speak badly about their pregnancy - just my superstition.  I will hope that she has a healthy happy baby.  Speculating about Zika, or her not seeking prenatal care, well, it just doesn't seem kosher to me.

[HereticHick]

All this frenetic speculation about Jill's pregnancy dangers must make TLC executives cackle with glee, as visions of high ratings & magazine cover stories dance in their heads.

[sta_sha]

14 hours ago, socalrules said:

Derrick doesn't have a job and doesn't seem to do anything but play on social media. Why doesn't he do the laundry and cook the meals?

Exactly. Jill may not be up to housework right now. But Derick is perfectly capable of passing the vacuum or doing a load of laundry. No way it should fall to Jill's sisters. Usually, I'd have no trouble with sisters helping each other out, but Jill's sisters have enough on their plates running their parent's home. Derick needs to get off Instagram and pick up a dust cloth.

[ClaraOswin]

8 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

We live near a very upscale area where the homes range into the millions and run 4,000+ square feet. While I always ogle them and wish, I've also said I would have to hire a maid because cleaning a house that size would be too much work for one person let alone a hockey/soccer/choir mom like myself. Now think a house Jill's size with an active toddler and morning sickness, I can see the sibs helping out for now.

It's really not that hard though...as long as BOTH adults (and any children old enough) do some of the work. Our house is around 3300 sq. feet, so not quite that big. But still. I mean, maybe if you wanted the house to be 100% spotless at all times, it would be tough. We aren't really like that though. You just clean things as you go and it really isn't too bad. Don't get me wrong, I would love help...haha! And some day, if my joint pain is too bad I will likely have to pay someone to do some of it. But I'm sure Jill rarely cleans much on her own. And you know Derick doesn't do much. Except hold Izzy near a stove with hot oil. 

[Carm_88]

Exactly. Jill may not be up to housework right now. But Derick is perfectly capable of passing the vacuum or doing a load of laundry. No way it should fall to Jill's sisters. Usually, I'd have no trouble with sisters helping each other out, but Jill's sisters have enough on their plates running their parent's home. Derick needs to get off Instagram and pick up a dust cloth.

See in normal circumstances, I'd think it's sweet because the husband or partner would be working and it would be hard for a woman with morning sickness. But Derick isn't doing anything and he could easily do it. I would assume that he has done it before.

[Gillyweed]

What do Jill and Derick do all day with her sisters helping around the house? Seriously though-- Jill, Derick, Ben, and Jessa only have one kid and claim they don't watch TV and only read like Christian books. I've posted this months ago, but I'll post it again-- WHAT DO THEY DO ALL DAY?

I've been home the past 2 weeks on winter break, and since our house is getting renovated we're currently without TV. I'm BORED OUT OF MY MIND (and currently binge watching Survivor on my laptop)

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

What do Jill and Derick do all day with her sisters helping around the house? Seriously though-- Jill, Derick, Ben, and Jessa only have one kid and claim they don't watch TV and only read like Christian books. I've posted this months ago, but I'll post it again-- WHAT DO THEY DO ALL DAY?

I've been home the past 2 weeks on winter break, and since our house is getting renovated we're currently without TV. I'm BORED OUT OF MY MIND (and currently binge watching Survivor on my laptop)

Not a God damned thing. But they were raised to sit around and stare at each other.  I'm sure this is why they both over at the TTH so much, at least with a dozen kids running around there is something to look at besides the walls.