Jill, Derick, Israel and the latest Dillard- Part 23

[grandmadugger]

6 hours ago, JillyO said:

Doesn't Jill's lost-her-license-in-Arkansas-because-a-baby-died midwife teacher/friend Vanessa pratice in Oklahoma (pretty close to the Duggars) these days? They seemed to be on the outs for a while, but Jill has been seen playing at being a midwife at Vanessa's again these past few months. So I could see Jill going to Vanessa's and having her (attempt to) deliver the baby at her home or something.

I didn't realize Vanessa and Jill had reconnected. I thought Jill was working with someone else. Jill didn't use her last time maybe she will be smart enough not to this time either. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Jill will probably be Jessa's "midwife" this time around, right?  I imagine TLC wont be filming the births, and it'll be cellphone footage like with Jessa's. (I'm assuming they did this because of liability of not using a real medical professional?)

[SuchABlessing]

5 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Let's hope to God Jill doesn't attempt a whole "oh I was going to go to a hospital, but then the baby came so fast" in an attempt to have a homebirth. We could have a repeat of Israel's labor.

Well, considering Jill claims to have been in labor with Izzy for 72 hours, I highly doubt she'd be so lucky to have a quick labor. You can't roll into the hospital with meconium strain and try and tell the doctor that you've only been in labor for an hour.... that's not going to fly.

Jill already has a belly! I'm jealous bc I too am pregnant and due in July and I'm still flat as a pancake. If it wasn't for the ultrasound and how ungodly sick I've been, I wouldn't believe it myself lol 

[grandmadugger]

26 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Jill will probably be Jessa's "midwife" this time around, right?  I imagine TLC wont be filming the births, and it'll be cellphone footage like with Jessa's. (I'm assuming they did this because of liability of not using a real medical professional?)

Jill was in CA when Spurge was born. If we believe the show and Jessa she did nothing for formal prenatal care. 

[Angelic83]

3 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

Jill was in CA when Spurge was born. If we believe the show and Jessa she did nothing for formal prenatal care. 

I hope TLC is making that up and she had some prenatal care at some time. Here in the netherlands home births are nothing special but at least you get good prenatal care from the midwife like an ultrasound....

[karen77]

21 minutes ago, SuchABlessing said:

Well, considering Jill claims to have been in labor with Izzy for 72 hours, I highly doubt she'd be so lucky to have a quick labor. You can't roll into the hospital with meconium strain and try and tell the doctor that you've only been in labor for an hour.... that's not going to fly.

Jill already has a belly! I'm jealous bc I too am pregnant and due in July and I'm still flat as a pancake. If it wasn't for the ultrasound and how ungodly sick I've been, I wouldn't believe it myself lol 

Is this your first or second? I swear I looked pregnant with #2 as soon as the pee stick dried (mostly bloating), but man, I was pulling out the maternity clothes way earlier for sure!

[SassyPants]

From what I've seen on the show with Jill and her responses to uncomfortable, unknown and painful situations ( blood donation and wisdom teeth extraction), plus her over all overly sensitive and dramatic responses ( falling shower rack), I do not think she'll successfully navigate a medication free, home vbac. 

[SuchABlessing]

1 hour ago, karen77 said:

Is this your first or second? I swear I looked pregnant with #2 as soon as the pee stick dried (mostly bloating), but man, I was pulling out the maternity clothes way earlier for sure!

It's my first! My sister is pregnant as well and a few months ahead of me (total surprise. We weren't doing a duggar type competition lol) and she had a belly  at this stage so im fully expecting to pop any day. 

[ClaraOswin]

If you have good abs, it sometimes takes longer to pop. Probably better in the long run.

[DaniLouisiana]

@SuchABlessing, congratulations!  Don't worry about "popping", my DD is a July baby and my second-I didn't have even  smidge of  belly  until March-April.

[Fundie Bunny]

For those wanting to pop already: My cousin's wife is pregnant with their second child, she is 22 weeks and only popped out last week. She went from nothing to the cutest little bump in just a week. 

[carebaer]

6 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

At my hospital there was a new moms program which included five classes covering Birthing Techniques, Confort Measures, After-birth Care, Newborn Care and C-Sections. I attended all the classes (They have something like 80% completion overall) and that may have affected the paperwork I was given. My doctor was quite open about the options and possible outcomes. I do not think it played any role in the c-section being seen as routine. I just wanted to defend my doctor because he was wonderful and very considerate. 

I didn't mean to imply that your c-section was routine just because the paperwork seemed to be routine.  The way you wrote it made it seem like part of the routine admittance paperwork.  Normalizing consent for a c-section as something that moms just sign upon admittance is a step in seeing c-sections as just routine and not major surgery to be discussed with one's doctor.  (Again, not that I thought that's how you saw your own situation.  Just that I see it headed that way if moms are offered such forms without the chance to weight the pros and cons with a doctor.)  If it was just because you were already so well-informed prior to being admitted and other moms would only get the same  paperwork if they were similarly educated, that makes more sense.

[Snarkle Motion]

8 minutes ago, carebaer said:

I didn't mean to imply that your c-section was routine just because the paperwork seemed to be routine.  The way you wrote it made it seem like part of the routine admittance paperwork.  Normalizing consent for a c-section as something that moms just sign upon admittance is a step in seeing c-sections as just routine and not major surgery to be discussed with one's doctor.  (Again, not that I thought that's how you saw your own situation.  Just that I see it headed that way if moms are offered such forms without the chance to weight the pros and cons with a doctor.)  If it was just because you were already so well-informed prior to being admitted and other moms would only get the same  paperwork if they were similarly educated, that makes more sense.

My understanding is that it's done at the onset in case of emergency, they have your consent on file. If you are in distress and are suddenly no longer able to give consent then you have given permission for the necessary c section. 

Ideally the doctors should be explaining all of this with every "routine" consent paperwork. But its hard to get consent for a c section if a women is no longer conscious or otherwise in distress and sometimes time constraints don't allow for it so you want to have these contingencies on file. Doctors should be explaining these situations and allowing patients to make decisions (when the doctors judgment doesn't override for medical necessity) but that doesn't mean that they do what they should be doing. 

[HarleyQuinn]

6 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Jill was in CA when Spurge was born. If we believe the show and Jessa she did nothing for formal prenatal care. 

Yes I know, that's why I said she'll be Jessa's "midwife" THIS time around. 

[carebaer]

4 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

My understanding is that it's done at the onset in case of emergency, they have your consent on file. If you are in distress and are suddenly no longer able to give consent then you have given permission for the necessary c section. 

Ideally the doctors should be explaining all of this with every "routine" consent paperwork. But its hard to get consent for a c section if a women is no longer conscious or otherwise in distress and sometimes time constraints don't allow for it so you want to have these contingencies on file. Doctors should be explaining these situations and allowing patients to make decisions (when the doctors judgment doesn't override for medical necessity) but that doesn't mean that they do what they should be doing. 

Right.  I don't have a problem with moms choosing to sign consent for procedures they may not need to make things easier if it does become necessary.  Rarely does it reach a point where the mom suddenly can't give consent (and doctor's actually have more leeway in those cases anyway),  but it does happen and more importantly if the baby is in distress and an emergency c-section is necessary, the last thing any mom wants is to worry about signing paperwork. As I said up thread, I signed consent for a c-section early in my labor along with another procedure I actually expected to have (and did).  Charlieincharge mentioned that she signed it as part of her admittance paperwork and in her original comment it just seemed like one of the forms you were given at admittance without a doctor discussing the pros and cons.  I found the idea that it's routine admittance paperwork problematic.  However, this is also why I said her reply clarifying that she had previously been educated on the risks/benefits of a c-section and that that kind of education is fairly common for moms at her hospital makes the situation there not as problematic as I originally read it.  I don't have a problem with moms being told the risks and benefits of a possible c-section and given a chance to ask questions and decide whether to sign consent in advance.  I just had concerns about moms being handed the form with the other admittance paperwork since this is generally handled by a clerk who cannot answer any medical questions.  I could see moms signing it without really paying attention or deciding their questions weren't worth the hassle since they would have to wait for the doctor or situations like that.    Which wouldn't really be informed consent. 

[JillyO]

14 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

I didn't realize Vanessa and Jill had reconnected. I thought Jill was working with someone else. Jill didn't use her last time maybe she will be smart enough not to this time either. 

They have. Jill helped Vanessa deliver a baby in September, as discussed here:

While Jill was smart enough not to include Vanessa's name (or her business's name), the outfit the baby is wearing is very clearly one of Vanessa's. I'm pretty sure we also checked the A Mommy's Butterfly Facebook page at the time and Vanessa had uploaded a picture of the same baby.

While I was researching this just now, I realized that the A Mommy's Butterfly Facebook page appears to be gone. Curiouser and curiouser. Have Vanessa's shenanigans finally caught up to her? I sure hope Jill is smart enough not to pick her as her midwife. But with home birth VBACs not allowed in AR, I can see her making some REALLY stupid choices.

[nastyhobbitses]

15 hours ago, SassyPants said:

From what I've seen on the show with Jill and her responses to uncomfortable, unknown and painful situations ( blood donation and wisdom teeth extraction), plus her over all overly sensitive and dramatic responses ( falling shower rack), I do not think she'll successfully navigate a medication free, home vbac. 

Jill is a perfect storm of drama queen, easily persuaded, eager to please, and totally invested in the cult. She will attempt home VBAC with that quack midwife buddy of hers, refuse to go to the hospital/be persuaded by her headship or Quack Midwife not to go to the hospital until the fan is liberally spreading shit around the room, and have everyone film talking heads about how strong and awesome she is for putting herself and her child in medical jeopardy for a TV storyline and attention.

[Gillyweed]

This sounds terrible, but I think it will take something drastic like a hysterectomy or even death to get these people to see a doctor and go to the hospital. 

[RosyDaisy]

No it won't. It will make them martyr in their sick twisted minds and world.

[Cleopatra7]

My theory is that quiverfullers and Catholics who adhere to "Humanae Vitae" have chosen not to "believe in" the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth. Even as late as one hundred years ago, one in three women died in childbirth. Unfortunately, the US still has the highest rate of maternal death in the industrialized world, but it's nowhere near one in three. People like the Duggars and the Dillards willful choose to be ignorant about the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth, because doing so would provide legitimacy to the claims of birth control advocates. Instead, they take the view that pregnancy is so "natural" that it can even be done at home with no trained personel present.

[front hugs > duggs]

The deeply hidden inside me conspiracy theorist is coming out: What if JB didn't mind spending the money to go to the hospital on Michelle, but won't pay for his kids to go to the hospital for childbirth? That would be seriously f*d up, but maybe possible. We haven't really been able to figure out why Jill and Jessa are so adamant on homebirth when their mother mostly delivered in hospitals.

Also, if Derick insisted Jill go to the hospital, wouldn't she have to listen? Of course, relying on Derick to be a decent, logical human at this point would be like relying on JB&M to actually parent their own children...

[SuchABlessing]

the ignorance of not getting prenatal care bc they think they're superior in God's eyes and thus nothing can go wrong is just mind boggling. Both Jill and Jessa nearly committed suicide with their first births. dont they see that??? Jessa  is lucky to still have a uterus at the very least and Jill is lucky Izzy survived labor. 

[BabyBottlePop]

@Cleopatra7, I definitely agree with you that they are willfully ignoring facts to an extent. 

They're so hypocritical! Even their KJB warns them : Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; 

But I'm sure they could find some other bible verse about God loving his flock that would negate the above quote... Sigh. 

It makes me think of how after ether was used to help women in childbirth there were still doctors who felt women had to experience pain cause the bible said so. Queen Victoria's daughter (also Victoria) had to deal with her German obstetricians pulling that line. 

[KelseyAnn]

15 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

My theory is that quiverfullers and Catholics who adhere to "Humanae Vitae" have chosen not to "believe in" the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth. Even as late as one hundred years ago, one in three women died in childbirth. Unfortunately, the US still has the highest rate of maternal death in the industrialized world, but it's nowhere near one in three. People like the Duggars and the Dillards willful choose to be ignorant about the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth, because doing so would provide legitimacy to the claims of birth control advocates. Instead, they take the view that pregnancy is so "natural" that it can even be done at home with no trained personel present.

 

In regards to your remark on Catholics, you're right. My Grandmother had 10 children, and all those kids had a minimum of at least 5. And nobody even thought to stop having kids until one of the aunts had to get her tubes tied to prevent a fifth, and yet another, high-risk pregnancy.  Perhaps Jill would come to her senses like the aunt did? Especially if this baby does have disabilities via the Zika virus. 

[SuchABlessing]

I know they're pro-birth and pro-life so they don't feel the need to check if (god forbid) something is wrong with the baby with prenatal care. But if your child had a disability, a congenital defect or worse, wouldn't you want to know so you could research it and get a plan together for the birth? Give yourself knowledge to give the baby the best start they can have?