Jill, Derick, Israel and the latest Dillard- Part 23

[Carm_88]

Is Jill smart enough to seek medical treatment? Only if she has to. The amount of time that she was in labour with Izzy, she really tempted fate with that one.

[Snarkle Motion]

22 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Is Jill smart enough to seek medical treatment? Only if she has to. The amount of time that she was in labour with Izzy, she really tempted fate with that one.

She doesn't feel like the same person she was with the first pregnancy. I think 2 years ago at Christmas when she essentially had her stomach gift wrapped from God was a very different time for her. I suspect this means she's gotten a dose of humility and hope that will lead her to seek medical treatment. Although I'm not sure there is much they can do at this point if there is Zika exposure so maybe it truly is in gods hands?

[nst]

12 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

She doesn't feel like the same person she was with the first pregnancy. I think 2 years ago at Christmas when she essentially had her stomach gift wrapped from God was a very different time for her. I suspect this means she's gotten a dose of humility and hope that will lead her to seek medical treatment. Although I'm not sure there is much they can do at this point if there is Zika exposure so maybe it truly is in gods hands?

I think they thought not only they were the golden couple at the time but also the golden family. Skeletons had not surfaced.....

now jessa has the higher instagram following and doesn't have the pretence of having to go anywhere...plus Ben has a job and derick has what rants

[halcionne]

12 hours ago, evolutionbaby said:

I think it was on her Instagram where she said she had had a bad day, not that she had received bad news. It might have been not much at all, we all have bad days. Maybe another shower rack fell?

I'm ashamed to say I chortled at this. 

I may be projecting because I'm coming to terms with my own childhood trauma, but my heart really goes out to her and all of the Duggarlings. They had terrible parents and terrible childhoods, and that shit will scar you.

I don't blame Jill one bit for being on tenterhooks while she was in a foreign country where she doesn't speak the language, being alone with a baby for a good part of it, and yes there is an element of danger in El Salvador right now. I hope they all get therapy, but of course they won't.

[ljohnson2006]

Jill is going to gamble with her and her baby's lives until it takes one of them out. 

[MoonFace]

Lord love a duck.

You know that turkeys will stare up at the rain and drown?   Well, Duggars aren't quite as smart as a turkey.

 

These people haven't a clue about restraint-as in, gee, dear,. This is my one of my fertile days so how about we just snuggle after I make you a nice sandwich.  Or we can go play mini golf and you can dry hump me. 

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

Lord love a duck.

You know that turkeys will stare up at the rain and drown?   Well, Duggars aren't quite as smart as a turkey.

 

These people haven't a clue about restraint-as in, gee, dear,. This is my one of my fertile days so how about we just snuggle after I make you a nice sandwich.  Or we can go play mini golf and you can dry hump me. 

But then Derrick might use his hand for unholy works.. idk if its to the thought of his wife I don't think Masturbating should be considered sin.

[formerhsfundie]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

Lord love a duck.

You know that turkeys will stare up at the rain and drown?   Well, Duggars aren't quite as smart as a turkey.

Omg that is amazing. Lmao

I did not know that... thanks for both that fact, and the laugh.

[SassyPants]

I doubt she has had Zika screening.

[socalrules]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I doubt she has had Zika screening.

I doubt she has, or will be, screened for anything.

It seems many fundies, who so strongly advocate for the sanctity of the unborn, don't seem to actually do what is necessary to take care of their own unborn. They use unlicensed midwives with no real medical background to get them through their pregnancies. They do ultrasounds for the sole purpose of finding out if they need to buy huge flowered headbands. It seems like they are now trying to one up each other by not even having unlicensed midwives at their deliveries. I don't understand not wanting a real doctor or real nurse midwife monitoring your pregnancy. I worry I need to see a doctor every time I have the flu. I am always debating about if I am overreacting. If I was pregnant I would be the best patient a doctor could have. I would want them telling me what to do next doing every test they think is necessary. 

I know fundies leave it up to God but I don't see how they don't think about how God gave us great doctors for a reason. Maybe they should be utilizing the resources God has given them. Kind of like how they keep their children uneducated when those kids might have otherwise changed the world for the better. 

[Rachel333]

I couldn't help thinking of the Duggars, and specifically Jill given that she's apparently still trying to have lots of kids with little prenatal care even after her complicated first birth) when I saw this story. This is what can happen if you have a lot of C-sections.* (No gore in the pictures, by the way, just an MRI.) This woman had five previous pregnancies, all of which ended in C-sections, and during her 6th pregnancy her uterus tore in a weak spot around her previous scars and the baby's foot actually went through the uterus. Happily, the woman and her baby both made it through just fine.

*Okay, this is a very rare situation and extremely unlikely to happen. Still horrifying to think about, though.

[Carm_88]

I doubt she has had Zika screening.

I doubt she will have any screening. Shes not a block of sense and they stick with the whole, God will provide.

[sophie10130]

It's so strange to me that they forgo any type of medical testing on the ruse that "God will provide" but they also say not to test God. Isn't not getting any prenatal care despite reasons to do so testing Him? 

[FleeJanaFree]

I don't think she's tested positive for Zika. I think they are trying to get us to wonder that and  drum up interest, hence the anti abortion rants. It's all about getting clicks to their websites for these deranged idiots. If she tested positive for Zika, we would know about it, so they could be complimented for being heroes for Jesus.

 

its like *every time* someone's pregnant, OMG WILL IT BE TWINS?! They enjoy the attention.

[ClaraOswin]

4 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I couldn't help thinking of the Duggars, and specifically Jill given that she's apparently still trying to have lots of kids with little prenatal care even after her complicated first birth) when I saw this story. This is what can happen if you have a lot of C-sections.* (No gore in the pictures, by the way, just an MRI.) This woman had five previous pregnancies, all of which ended in C-sections, and during her 6th pregnancy her uterus tore in a weak spot around her previous scars and the baby's foot actually went through the uterus. Happily, the woman and her baby both made it through just fine.

*Okay, this is a very rare situation and extremely unlikely to happen. Still horrifying to think about, though.

Yes, that exact type of thing is rare. But I wonder how rare some type of uterine rupture or whatever is because of multiple c-sections. I mean...it just can't be good to cut into the same part of the body so many times, right?

[HarryPotterFan]

I don't think Jill and Derick fully comprehend what microcephaly is and what it means to have an underdeveloped brain. While we can joke that they clearly have underdeveloped brains, I don't think they know what it means for parts of the brain to be small or damaged and what that means for the child (and them as caregivers). I honestly wonder if the know how powerful and important the brain is, from breathing to balance to speech. Just everything. What they don't get is being godly doesn't exempt them from how terrifying it would be to have a child who needs medical assistance for daily life functions. It just pisses me off. They act like it's nothing.

[TakingBibleClasses]

If having this second baby prevents J&D from returning to CA until he/she is born (because I don't remember them saying that, exactly, just that a hypothetical pregnancy might alter their travel plans to some extent?), I don't understand why they're even bothering to maintain the "we're long-term missionaries" charade. How would that be possible if they keep coming back to the U.S. to conceive AND to wait out the course of the pregnancy? It's like Ben and Jessa talking up their plans to adopt when they know they can't do so with a baby in the house.

[PennySycamore]

7 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Yes, that exact type of thing is rare. But I wonder how rare some type of uterine rupture or whatever is because of multiple c-sections. I mean...it just can't be good to cut into the same part of the body so many times, right?

I can't get to my copy of Silent Knife at the moment and any stats in it would be more than 30 years out of date, but separation of the scar (dehiscence) was pretty common.  Actual rupture,  where the incision opens up, was rare though.  I had a dehiscence with my third c-section.  

Not sure of what Ina May Gaskins says is true -that many OBs are not trained to put as many layers of sutures as they used to-  but if so, separations and ruptures might be more common that they were when Silent Knife was published anyway.  She said that there was little evidence that the simpler repair was as strong as the old technique.  There was no peer review of the article and it was published in something like OB Economics.  My OBs would have been trained in the old way, but my daughter, whose incision opened after she had her second section, had a doctor who probably trained in the new technique.

[Thorns]

According to the norwegian "Veileder i fødselshjelp" (obstetric guidelines) the risk of uterus rupture in later pregnancies are 0.5%, that is for norwegian births. 

They also list the risk for having a ceasarian as 45% in the next pregnancy, other guidelines with recommodations for care to those with a prior c-section lists the percentage of a successful vaginal birth after ceasarian as 67-85%. If you have had two c-sections the risk of uterus rupture the risk is listed as 2%, but vaginal birth is not automatically contraindicated (but often not recommended). The guidelines state that all further births shall be done with continous surveilance during the active part of labour. 

Keep in mind that these numbers are dependent on what kind of procedure/incision that were done, and the risk of rupture might be as high as 10 percent if other incision methods were done.

Again, this is norwegian numbers and guidelines for the most part, and will not automatically be transferable to the States because of the difference in health care system and policies regarding c-sections. (Norway is conservative in that there is a fairly low level of elective ceasarians done, and the number of women who has multiple births (above 3-4) is fairly low, so the experience and data regarding these situations are very limited.)

Source (Norwegian only, but numbers and recommodations are usually cited with references in English): http://legeforeningen.no/Fagmed/Norsk-gynekologisk-forening/Veiledere/Veileder-i-fodselshjelp-2014/Akutte-sjeldne-alvorlige-tilstander-i-graviditet-og-fodsel/Uterusruptur/

EDIT2, because I'm now on an computer instead of my phone (easier to google and copy-paste), there are some american guidelines found here:

http://www.acog.org/Womens-Health/Vaginal-Birth-After-Cesarean-VBAC

(Sorry not sorry for the thread spam. Anyone noticed that I love guidelines and citations?)

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

...Not sure of what Ina May Gaskins says is true -that many OBs are not trained to put as many layers of sutures as they used to-  but if so, separations and ruptures might be more common that they were when Silent Knife was published anyway.  She said that there was little evidence that the simpler repair was as strong as the old technique....

The norwegian guidelines say the evidence is inconclusive; with citations below if you are extremely interested

Roberge S, Chaillet N, Boutin A, Moore L, Jastrow N, Brassard N, Gauthier RJ, Hudic I, Shipp TD, Weimar CH, Fatusic Z, Demers S, Bujold E. Single- versus double-layer closure of the hysterotomy incision during cesarean delivery and risk of uterine rupture. Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 2011;115:5–10

Bujold E, Goyet M, Marcoux S, Brassard N, Cormier B, Hamilton E, Abdous B, Sidi EA, Kinch R, Miner L, Masse A, Fortin C, Gagné GP, Fortier A, Bastien G, Sabbah R, Guimond P, Roberge S, Gauthier RJ. The role of uterine closure in the risk of uterine rupture. Obstet Gynecol. 2010 Jul;116(1):43-50

[PennySycamore]

@Thorns, thanks for the citations!  I'll have to look those articles up on Medline.  

[Thorns]

It would be deeply ironic if the Dillards in their hubris pushes the limits too far, and Jill ends up having an emergency hysterectomy...

[MoonFace]

13 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

It's so strange to me that they forgo any type of medical testing on the ruse that "God will provide" but they also say not to test God. Isn't not getting any prenatal care despite reasons to do so testing Him? 

The issue might be that she doesn't want any male doctors checking out the holy HooHa. 

[Four is Enough]

40 minutes ago, MoonFace said:

The issue might be that she doesn't want any male doctors checking out the holy HooHa. 

I just do not get this at all. I do understand that many women are squeamish about men "looking at them down there" but when the man is a physician, he's not looking to admire or be tittilated, he's looking to diagnose or treat. Same with women doctors "looking at men".

 

As a nurse, I "looked at" COUNTLESS men and women's body parts, and for the life of me can remember nothing remarkable about any of them. But I can tell you about this one's sense of humor, that one's cheeky grin, the other one's kindness...

[eveandadam]

2 hours ago, Thorns said:

It would be deeply ironic if the Dillards in their hubris pushes the limits too far, and Jill ends up having an emergency hysterectomy...

Can she deny such a life-saving procedure because religion abolishes it? Are they allowed to have a hysterectomy? I remember the one case in Ireland, where a woman died because the very catholic doctors refused to do a life-saving abortion on her.

 

 

[HarleyQuinn]

On 12/23/2016 at 8:41 PM, Nicole Jinger Duggar said:

If the baby has Zika because they just couldn't wait to have another, I'll lose any sense of respect for these people.

You still have respect for these idiots?