Jill, Derick, Israel and the latest Dillard- Part 23

[jqlgoblue]

Initially Derick and Cathy seemed ok but they probably were putting on their best, for the Duggars and the cameras. Now that they know it is OK to show their true colors, that is what we get and see. Cathy truly wasn't shown much when she was sick, so that also helped her, we could project on her whatever we wanted.

Derick has played up his "Proverbs 31" woman multiple times. It makes me ill.

[Adrienne83]

On 12/28/2016 at 11:11 PM, ClaraOswin said:

So you don't think it would be wise for a woman with Jill's history to go to a hospital for her next delivery?!

I don't understand the anti-male doctor thing either. After having my son, the nurses would have to come in to push on my belly and check my pad for blood (TMI? Eh, whatever.) They asked if it was okay for some nursing students to do it a few times. One was a male nursing student. That didn't bother me at all. (My ob-gyn is also male.) But he definitely seemed a bit uncomfortable with this "rotation" or whatever you call it. It was the beginning of the school year so this was very new for him. I remember thinking that in a few years...I bet very little would make him uncomfortable. (He was also black...so I wonder if the Duggars would freak about that too? Ha!)

My husband is a nurse, and when he had to do that clinical he was weirded out too. The reason was because of how patients treated him. So many women would NOT let a male nurse/nursing student even look at them on the maternity floor. One of the nurses even had him check a teen girl so the he could "show her what I real man is like, give her a roll model, and talk some sense into her." He has/had no idea what any of that meant. The patient wasn't married, so, maybe that had something to do with it? For him it just sucked that he was walking into a situation where people didn't want him right off the bat, when all he was doing was just trying to be professional and learn, ya know?

[dpndetfarm]

Ok, who wanted Jim Bob's face on the Dilbert photo? 

You have your choice. 

Spoiler

 

 

And just because I'm an immature dick who finds this a teeny bit hilarious.

 

Spoiler

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

6 minutes ago, dpndetfarm said:

Ok, who wanted Jim Bob's face on the Dilbert photo? 

You have your choice. 

  Hide contents

 

 

And just because I'm an immature dick who finds this a teeny bit hilarious.

 

  Hide contents

 

I appreciate that you colored Jill's lips red here.  And the Boob photos, I WAS eating. thanks.  That could be a new diet plan. 

[dpndetfarm]

I was wondering if anyone would notice that @allthegoodnamesrgone .

It's a kool-aid smile?

[Georgiana]

You know, I think there's been a fair amount of wondering "What happens when these second generation Fundies DON'T get everything they want?"

Derick, but ESPECIALLY Jill, were sold a bill of goods.  They were raised to believe that if they did everything right, if they checked off all the boxes, if they followed all the rules, EVERYTHING would work out.  

But what happens when it doesn't?  When they realize they were sold snake oil?  When they realize that suffering happens to EVERYONE, and that living by certain rules wont save you...and that, in fact, ALL those rules did was make you LESS able to handle that suffering and struggle?  That your parents didn't PROTECT you, they stunted you, they PREVENTED you from having the skills to live your dreams?

In my life, I often find myself returning to lines from books I have read for perspective.  Jill (and possibly Derick too) doesn't have this ability.  But when watching Derick and Jill, I keep thinking of Langston Hughes' Harlem:

Quote

 

What happens to a dream deferred? 

      Does it dry up 

      like a raisin in the sun? 

      Or fester like a sore— 

      And then run? 

      Does it stink like rotten meat? 

      Or crust and sugar over— 

      like a syrupy sweet? 

 

      Maybe it just sags 

      like a heavy load. 

 

      Or does it explode?

 

 

 

We're watching it fester, crust over, and sag.  If the Duggars are lucky, that's all we'll see.

But I for one, think it's only a matter of time before it explodes.

[DaniLouisiana]

@Adrienne83, I thank the powers that be for male nurses like your husband! I always have preferred to get a "murse"(Kiddo's word) when taking Kiddo to the ER. They always are less dismissive when I tell them how to deal with Kiddo's anxiety disorder. I'm not treated like a "hystronic" mother. I know my kid,  I've been dealing with his disorder for 20+ years now what works and what makes it worse-the male nurses always listen and do whatever they need to do to make it easier both themselves and my kid without getting pissy or bitchy.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, jqlgoblue said:

Initially Derick and Cathy seemed ok but they probably were putting on their best, for the Duggars and the cameras. Now that they know it is OK to show their true colors, that is what we get and see. Cathy truly wasn't shown much when she was sick, so that also helped her, we could project on her whatever we wanted.

Derick has played up his "Proverbs 31" woman multiple times. It makes me ill.

I'm no Bible scholar, but I never understand how fundies like Derick could take a description of a very self-sufficient woman who makes wise real estate/viticulture investments, helps the poor and needy, manages a household, and runs her own business, and interpret that to hold up subservient, uneducated, childlike women who never leave the house as the ideal woman.

[MoonFace]

8 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I kind of suspect that the Duggars encourages Derrick to get the jaw surgery to "fix" or improve his countenance. Instead I think it has made his appearance dramatically different in a negative way and likely been extremely painful. I wonder if he has resentment or anger for this? I wonder if the long hair is an attempt to balance out his face? 

Or maybe JB didn't give him enough allowance to pay for a haircut? 

[JesusCampSongs]

51 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

You know, I think there's been a fair amount of wondering "What happens when these second generation Fundies DON'T get everything they want?"

Derick, but ESPECIALLY Jill, were sold a bill of goods.  They were raised to believe that if they did everything right, if they checked off all the boxes, if they followed all the rules, EVERYTHING would work out.  

But what happens when it doesn't?  When they realize they were sold snake oil?  When they realize that suffering happens to EVERYONE, and that living by certain rules wont save you...and that, in fact, ALL those rules did was make you LESS able to handle that suffering and struggle?  That your parents didn't PROTECT you, they stunted you, they PREVENTED you from having the skills to live your dreams?

We're watching it fester, crust over, and sag.  If the Duggars are lucky, that's all we'll see.

But I for one, think it's only a matter of time before it explodes.

I think the way people respond to existential disappointment is rooted in how self-aware they are and whether they have more of an internal or external locus of control. When faced with it, people tend to blame themselves (internal locus) or others/outside factors (external locus). You can do either reasonably or unreasonably, which is where the self-awareness to recognize the extent you really control your own destiny and the things that happen to you comes in. 

Self-awareness is not the Duggars' collective strong suit. However, there may be a kid here or there who does have that trait and is also smart enough to hide it and dial in the Joyfully Obedient Child performance until an opportunity to flee presents itself. Only time will tell with that one. (I still have my fingers crossed for Jinger.)

The locus of control thing, on the other hand, could have some interesting results. We've already seen that they've brought up the older girls to internalize everything; that every good or bad thing that happens to them is directly related to how happy they're making Jesus. Which, of course, means that if they are miserable or something bad happens, they're doing something wrong. 

This may not be the case for the boys or the younger girls. Josh sure as shit lacks that trait; he comes across as one of those people who is totally incapable of taking responsibility for his actions. "Satan built a fortress in my heart." Yeah, okay. Just like your sisters defrauded you, jackass. I would argue that Josh, for all his contrition now, handily exploded the notion that the Duggars were this normal, just unusually large, wholesome family. Whether he really explodes and bails remains to be seen. It wouldn't surprise me either way. However, there may be another kid with less to lose who says, "fuck this, I'm out" in response to whatever Duggar-verse stressor he or she experiences through no (or perhaps even some) fault of their own. 

 

[KelseyAnn]

5 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Exactly. My husband is a quadriplegic and we get the same. Even though he's a professor and a SUPER opinionated dude, he's certainly no wilting flower. But people with disabilities are not seen as actual people...How often have we heard that "people with Down syndrome are soooo sweet?" His brother has Down syndrome and he has a full real human personality like anyone else, which includes sometimes being a dick. It's actually dehumanizing and ableist though I'm sure people feel they're being "nice."

 

I work with 4 mentally disabled women, two of them with down syndrome, and yes- they all have thier own personalities, just like anyone else. 

One is as sweet as sugar, and the other is the exact opposite and difficult to please. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

I like Derrick's hair, but I'm partial to long hair on guys,,, My little guy's hair is that length, or longer, right now, and he can rock a man bun on occasion too, although it's not his favorite hairstyle. His parkour coach insists in class, to keep his hair out of his eyes. 

I do agree that he was much better looking before the surgery though. 

Spoiler

 

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

He's a cutie! I too love long hair on guys. I had no idea there were parkour coaches. I want one stat! 

[SassyPants]

I am on vacation in a beach resort town in So America. Today, while sitting under the cabana, a young, Latino man started preaching from the Bible. Thankfully my Spanish is not that great, so I tried to ignore his ranting and pacing. All I kept thinking of was the asshole  Duggars. Had I spoke Spanish better, I would have told him to vaminos!

[rainbowbabycakes]

9 minutes ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

He's a cutie! I too love long hair on guys. I had no idea there were parkour coaches. I want one stat! 

his coach was actually on American Ninja Warrior the past 2 years. There aren't a ton of programs out there, but it's getting more popular, especially since American Ninja Warrior.

[SweetFellowshipper]

On 12/28/2016 at 8:11 PM, ClaraOswin said:

So you don't think it would be wise for a woman with Jill's history to go to a hospital for her next delivery?!

I don't understand the anti-male doctor thing either. After having my son, the nurses would have to come in to push on my belly and check my pad for blood (TMI? Eh, whatever.) They asked if it was okay for some nursing students to do it a few times. One was a male nursing student. That didn't bother me at all. (My ob-gyn is also male.) But he definitely seemed a bit uncomfortable with this "rotation" or whatever you call it. It was the beginning of the school year so this was very new for him. I remember thinking that in a few years...I bet very little would make him uncomfortable. (He was also black...so I wonder if the Duggars would freak about that too? Ha!)

Re: the first, no, I said nothing of the sort and that is a gross oversimplification of what I did say. As I'm not Jill's medical professional nor is anyone here, I can't decide what it would be "wise" for her to do and nor could you, except that whomever her medical professional is should be properly trained and educated. Regardless, I was speaking *generally.*

I didn't see any anti male doctor comments. I saw comments about paternalism vs. patient autonomy within hospital systems and reproductive care, which does not only refer to men and which women can participate in. It refers to an ideology and an ethical dilemma in medical practice, not a type of person. There is also the issue of how the practice of midwifery was co opted by primarily male obstetricians. Btw, when people do feel uncomfortable with male doctors or midwives it's not always about "modesty" or nakedness. It could be due to a patriarchal attitude, misogyny, a history of triggering sexual or psychological trauma, or just an individual preference...For me personally, I would feel fine with either, but neither preference indicates some sort of weakness or issue on the part of the patient. It's a choice like any other choice.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

4 hours ago, rainbowbabycakes said:

his coach was actually on American Ninja Warrior the past 2 years. There aren't a ton of programs out there, but it's getting more popular, especially since American Ninja Warrior.

I'm also obsessed with American ninja warrior. There are a couple of ninja gyms near me and my weight loss/health goal involves me auditioning for that one day. Wow, sounds like you have a very cool kid. 

[jqlgoblue]

5 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm no Bible scholar, but I never understand how fundies like Derick could take a description of a very self-sufficient woman who makes wise real estate/viticulture investments, helps the poor and needy, manages a household, and runs her own business, and interpret that to hold up subservient, uneducated, childlike women who never leave the house as the ideal woman.

Well, as with many things in the Bible the original meaning was translated away from the original Hebrew meaning. The woman was chayil or 'strong' when applied to a man ... so then 'valiant' for a woman ... but the KJV translated to virtuous (which I guess is a part of the connotation of chayil) but not in the purely patriarchal sense...

But you know, shades of grey are hard.

[Chicken bones]

Jill looks so different with the straoght hair and dramatic eyeliner. Its a good look on her, actually. Aside from the look of misery.

[Chevreuil]

On 29/12/2016 at 10:01 PM, ClaraOswin said:

That is true that smaller areas definitely have less choices.

Out of curiosity, which state are you located in?

 

On 29/12/2016 at 11:20 PM, PennySycamore said:

@ClaraOswin, I think @Chevreuil lives in Canada.  I've probably read what province she is in, but I can't remember off-hand.

You're right. Thats why i mentioned the small or poorer  regions since i know the US is different from here. Probably different parts of Canada are different than here. i am in Quebec but i have also given birth  in ontario because i am actually afraid of the hospital here. I went to the hospital biweekly when pregnant complaining of stomach pain and vomitting bile whenever i ate or drank anything. All i saw was a nurse, no doctor. I was so dehydrated my urine was a bright orange. All i got was a lecture and some pamphlets on dehydration and was sent home. Turned out i was full to the brim with gallstones.

A healthcare watchdog has said the hospital is one of the worst in the western world. I believe it, my daughter's heartrate was dropping and it took a half hour for the doctor to get there so i could push her out. Giving birth at the birth centre with the midwives was safer.

Theres also a place where you take your kid if they have difficulties. I started my son for severe speech delay at 18 months for this (he wasnt babbling or responding to his name amongst other things, obviously no words since he couldnt even babble mama or papa). He is 4 1/2 now and they have been "assessing" him this whole time because they have this bureaucratic bullshit way that he has to fit into a certain "category" to get consistent help but son didnt fit into any category. Finally, they give me a diagnosis (specific language impairment and developmental coordination disorder aka dyspraxia) so now he can have speech therapy (and occupational therapy). But wait, theres over a year waiting list. Anyway, sorry everyone for the rant. 

[GotCaughtDancing]

Happy New Years

from the Dullards

[ClaraOswin]

8 hours ago, Chevreuil said:

 

You're right. Thats why i mentioned the small or poorer  regions since i know the US is different from here. Probably different parts of Canada are different than here. i am in Quebec but i have also given birth  in ontario because i am actually afraid of the hospital here. I went to the hospital biweekly when pregnant complaining of stomach pain and vomitting bile whenever i ate or drank anything. All i saw was a nurse, no doctor. I was so dehydrated my urine was a bright orange. All i got was a lecture and some pamphlets on dehydration and was sent home. Turned out i was full to the brim with gallstones.

A healthcare watchdog has said the hospital is one of the worst in the western world. I believe it, my daughter's heartrate was dropping and it took a half hour for the doctor to get there so i could push her out. Giving birth at the birth centre with the midwives was safer.

Theres also a place where you take your kid if they have difficulties. I started my son for severe speech delay at 18 months for this (he wasnt babbling or responding to his name amongst other things, obviously no words since he couldnt even babble mama or papa). He is 4 1/2 now and they have been "assessing" him this whole time because they have this bureaucratic bullshit way that he has to fit into a certain "category" to get consistent help but son didnt fit into any category. Finally, they give me a diagnosis (specific language impairment and developmental coordination disorder aka dyspraxia) so now he can have speech therapy (and occupational therapy). But wait, theres over a year waiting list. Anyway, sorry everyone for the rant. 

Wow...that is really awful.

It makes me really appreciate what we have here, that's for sure. We also started getting our son assessed for speech delays around 18 months. But here it was free through the school system. (We also get him private therapy in addition to the free therapy.) He is just over 3 now and has been diagnosed with autism. They still aren't sure about apraxia/dyspraxia though. I am really dying for him to call me mom or mama though. It's definitely tough. I hope your son is able to get some good therapy to help him thrive!

[Trynn]

Happy New Years
from the Dullards

Derek looks like he is totally about to stab some with that.

[Snarkle Motion]

18 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I think the way people respond to existential disappointment is rooted in how self-aware they are and whether they have more of an internal or external locus of control. When faced with it, people tend to blame themselves (internal locus) or others/outside factors (external locus). You can do either reasonably or unreasonably, which is where the self-awareness to recognize the extent you really control your own destiny and the things that happen to you comes in. 

Self-awareness is not the Duggars' collective strong suit. However, there may be a kid here or there who does have that trait and is also smart enough to hide it and dial in the Joyfully Obedient Child performance until an opportunity to flee presents itself. Only time will tell with that one. (I still have my fingers crossed for Jinger.)

The locus of control thing, on the other hand, could have some interesting results. We've already seen that they've brought up the older girls to internalize everything; that every good or bad thing that happens to them is directly related to how happy they're making Jesus. Which, of course, means that if they are miserable or something bad happens, they're doing something wrong. 

This may not be the case for the boys or the younger girls. Josh sure as shit lacks that trait; he comes across as one of those people who is totally incapable of taking responsibility for his actions. "Satan built a fortress in my heart." Yeah, okay. Just like your sisters defrauded you, jackass. I would argue that Josh, for all his contrition now, handily exploded the notion that the Duggars were this normal, just unusually large, wholesome family. Whether he really explodes and bails remains to be seen. It wouldn't surprise me either way. However, there may be another kid with less to lose who says, "fuck this, I'm out" in response to whatever Duggar-verse stressor he or she experiences through no (or perhaps even some) fault of their own. 

 

I agree with all of this. But I think think the poem is about what happens to people at their breaking point. How will Jill react if pushed to the breaking point? Will she turn completely to her cult and become a broken empty shell of a person like Michelle? Because people love to hate on Michelle but she has the demeanor to me of someone who was psychologically brainwashed and broken to the point where all they can hold onto is the cult teachings.

Or will Jill begin to questions the things she's been told. She was the "perfect" child who did everything right, trusted mom and dad to keep her safe, followed her headships directions. There has got to be a part of her that is questioning the teachings, even if it's only slightly and then considered the work of satan. But I think in many ways Jill was set up the most to fail and may ultimately question her beliefs because of this. 

I think Jill is reaching a turning point very quickly and it is interesting how the pregnancy and birth of this next child will be interpreted by her.  

[marmalade]

On 12/29/2016 at 10:09 PM, grandmadugger said:

As far as what they do all day

Jill - growing a tiny human that makes her ill

Jessa - finishing growing a tiny human and working social media 

Derick - substitute teach?, WalMart/Sams club?, being a dick

Ben - going to school and possibly working part time 

 

So when did Ben become the better prospect over Derrick?  

 I seriously doubt that Ben's going to be going to school in the spring semester. Remember, he took the entire semester off when Spurgeon was due. So, expect more social media preaching from him  while they wait on Seewald #2.