Michael and Brandon Keilen

[alba]

I figure that I'll pay more tax over my life than I would if I had kids, which in turn funds the education of the people who will staff my nursing home and earn good salaries so they pay high taxes to cover my medical care, just as my taxes cover medical care for others far more than myself at this stage in my life.

[GreyhoundFan]

18 hours ago, jqlgoblue said:

I think it is very individual. I think some people like to be in a place with other people and better / more varied care. I suspect I would prefer that. My mother might also, depending on the situation, though she never discusses it.

Others (like my dad) see nursing homes -- or even assisted living -- as the place you go to die. Like jail but for dying people. So the minute you go you might as well give up or be as curmudgeonly as possible! This is NOT a healthy attitude but I don't see him changing at this point. He is a very healthy 70 but it will be very interesting to say the least when he does finally get sick.

This is so true. My mother is 70 and very healthy. She is a textbook extrovert. She loves having lots of people around and hates being alone. She spends most of her days visiting her neighbors and planning picnics and parties for the neighborhood. A nice facility will be the best bet for her when she is no longer able to live in her home. On the other hand, I am a textbook introvert. I love being alone (with my dog) and quiet. The thought of living in a facility depresses me. I remember how horrible college was, having to share a room and having zero privacy. I loved school, but hated the living situation. I hope to have a long time before I have to worry about my living situation.

[Coconut Flan]

Save money so you can afford a private room!  Most of the places here offer private rooms if you can afford it.

[Georgiana]

There's also a new trend of senior living facilities that are transitional apartments.  They're pretty cool!  Basically, you choose the level of care that you need.  For people who don't need care, it's basically just a senior apartment complex.  But if you need it, the care can be provided for you without having to move.

My great aunt and uncle chose to move into those when caring for their home was too much for them.  At first, it was basically just a smaller apartment: all the units were private, and they had a bedroom, bathroom, living room/dining combo, small kitchen, and office that they could decorate and furnish as they chose.  They were completely independent, but they had access to all the amenities and senior-focused activities of the facility, plus a great community.  

As time wore on, my aunt had a stroke, so she needed additional care.  At this time, they chose to have the kitchen facilities limited (the stove and oven were turned off), they subscribed to the dining plan, and a therapist came to my aunt a few times a week.

After my uncle died and was no longer able to assist my aunt, she needed a much higher level of in-home care.  But it was really great that as she grieved, she was able to stay in her same unit with her friends and didn't have to move to get the assisted living she needed.  It was great for the family too to not have to deal with the stress of moving her as they planned the funeral.  

[Coconut Flan]

They also have the option to move to a larger or smaller apartment in most of the facilities if their needs change.

[GreyhoundFan]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Save money so you can afford a private room!  Most of the places here offer private rooms if you can afford it.

Oh yes, that's definitely part of my planning. I started saving fairly late, but I've been putting aside as much as possible. I want to be able to make some choices when the time comes.

[Denim Jumper]

On 9/29/2016 at 11:26 AM, Fascinated said:

My husband and I will do everything in our power so as to NOT have our children caring for us in our waning years.  I would hate to be that kind of burden; an obligation. No way. Honestly, I would rather die.  

True dat. My 5-year-old told me that I could only visit him on weekends because he and his wife or girlfriend have to work during the week. Later informed me that he would have a room in his house for me to live in. Very generous, of course. But, our plan for the golden years is to not squander their inheritance on easing their father and I into the grave. The plan is to have cyanide capsules on hand for the minute one of us gets a terminal or long, drawn-out degenerative illness, or incontinence.

[marmalade]

On 9/30/2016 at 3:21 PM, Georgiana said:

There's also a new trend of senior living facilities that are transitional apartments.  They're pretty cool!  Basically, you choose the level of care that you need.  For people who don't need care, it's basically just a senior apartment complex.  But if you need it, the care can be provided for you without having to move.

My great aunt and uncle chose to move into those when caring for their home was too much for them.  At first, it was basically just a smaller apartment: all the units were private, and they had a bedroom, bathroom, living room/dining combo, small kitchen, and office that they could decorate and furnish as they chose.  They were completely independent, but they had access to all the amenities and senior-focused activities of the facility, plus a great community.  

As time wore on, my aunt had a stroke, so she needed additional care.  At this time, they chose to have the kitchen facilities limited (the stove and oven were turned off), they subscribed to the dining plan, and a therapist came to my aunt a few times a week.

After my uncle died and was no longer able to assist my aunt, she needed a much higher level of in-home care.  But it was really great that as she grieved, she was able to stay in her same unit with her friends and didn't have to move to get the assisted living she needed.  It was great for the family too to not have to deal with the stress of moving her as they planned the funeral.  

This is very similar to my MIL's senior living facility, except that we did move her to a studio apartment with a full meal plan because of multiple falls and broken bones (she has sever osteoperosis). She LOVES it! Yes, it's assisted living (meals, laundry, bathing - she needs assistance  there - are all taken care of), she can still move freely around the complex and hang out with her friends. She's been thee 9 years in Independent Living, so she has quite a circle of ladies she likes to hang out with. She's 84 now, and this has been the best choice for her in her condition, which aside from the osteoperosis and mobility issues, is actually very healthy. 

[season of life]

While there are high chances that one of the 19 kids could take Gil and Kelly in, it is also possible that some will be too preoccupied with their gazillion kids to help out or properly look after them. Michael seems like the type who would take care of her parents.

[jqlgoblue]

My parents are well aware of the array of options but it is still all doom and gloom! At this rate I'm going to be single forever so I may be available to take care of them / take them in myself.

I agree that Michael would take care of Kelly & GIl... I actually think most of the kids would. The difficulty will be how many kids they have ... but maybe Kelly can at least do the laundry!

[QuiverDance]

Just now, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I think it's not often a lack of love that means the elderly are often neglected, but that the level of care and facilities needed can be so demanding/expensive to have in the home (such as access ramps etc) and adult children generally need to work (often in cities other than their home towns) in order to support themselves. 

 

Absolutely.  It is not always the best scenario for an elderly or infirm person to be in a family member's home.  There is a point when long term care does become necessary.  What I was referring to was that inbetween time, when an elderly person may need looking after and being with family would be safer.  Sometimes that isn't feasible.  My mother lived with my grandparents to care for them after her mother's stroke, because my grandfather couldn't do it on his own.  It was not tenable long term, but my mother felt it necessary to try.  That is how I would hope to handle a similar situation.  

Just now, season of life said:

While there are high chances that one of the 19 kids could take Gil and Kelly in, it is also possible that some will be too preoccupied with their gazillion kids to help out or properly look after them. Michael seems like the type who would take care of her parents.

 

One of my great grandmothers lived to be 103.  She died when I was 21.   She had 9 children, and from the time she was about 80 years old until she was in her mid-nineties and it was no longer feasible to care for her in their homes, her two daughters and two sons who were still living and local (and who lived very close to thier childhood home) "took turns" housing her for a month at a time.  I think that it is much easier to divide the labor of caring for aging parents among several children.  I'm sure there were disagreements between the siblings over the care, though.  THat conflict must have been difficult.  My own mother and her sister are still not at rights after the years my mom spent caring for their parents while her sister lived far away.  Sparing your offspring from these difficulties is are VERY good reason to make sure your wishes are known.  

My paternal grandmother also had nine children.   She lived to be just a few months shy of her 100th birthday.  When I was a child arrangements were made that she would be cared for by a particular family member in her oldest years in exchange for some financial compensation.  Not all of the siblings were a fan of the idea, but it worked out pretty beautifully, as everyone kept their words and made it work.  I know it must have been difficult, but she stayed in her home until eight years before her death and only moved when she needed more mobility care.  She died in her son's home with all her children around her, and I'd say that was a good death.  That was an ideal situation, and there were many hands to help, but I'm so thankful for her that it was possible. 

[nokidsmom]

32 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Absolutely.  It is not always the best scenario for an elderly or infirm person to be in a family member's home.  There is a point when long term care does become necessary.  What I was referring to was that inbetween time, when an elderly person may need looking after and being with family would be safer.  Sometimes that isn't feasible.  My mother lived with my grandparents to care for them after her mother's stroke, because my grandfather couldn't do it on his own.  It was not tenable long term, but my mother felt it necessary to try.  That is how I would hope to handle a similar situation.  

And if there is some distance from the elderly parent and the child who could take them in, there's issues of taking the person away from their community that they know, their doctors, church, etc.  When my Grandmother could no longer live independently because the fall risk was too great, my parents did consider taking her into their home to care for her.  My mother was a nurse and thought she could do it plus there was in space in the home.    It didn't happen largely because it would mean moving Grandma away from her doctors, her church community, and people she knew.    She ended up going into a care facility in the town where she lived, she knew peers who were already in the home, her doctors and pastor could visit her there.   It was a big psychological boost for her to be around people that she knew.   Going to my parent's home meant starting all over with doctors, she wouldn't know anyone, she would have actually been more isolated in that situation.  

 

[JessaBlessa]

Have we seen any recent photos of Michael?  

[Italiangirl]

1 hour ago, JessaBlessa said:

Have we seen any recent photos of Michael?  

Now that i think i think not, maybe from august... Why, you suspect something? 

[JessaBlessa]

7 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

Now that i think i think not, maybe from august... Why, you suspect something? 

No,  just hopeful.  I feel a little sorry for her and would love to see her get pregnant.

[Italiangirl]

16 minutes ago, JessaBlessa said:

No,  just hopeful.  I feel a little sorry for her and would love to see her get pregnant.

Yeah me too. I'm happy that they was able to have this year just for them but it has to be hard to see all you married siblings have already 2 kids. 

[season of life]

I know Michael was putting together photo albums. If they are struggling, I wonder if they would be open about their problems. Even non-fundies don't want to publicly reveal their infertility, so I can't see Michael being so forthcoming when she was brought up to be a baby factory.

[ReverseTheHierophant]

I think if Michael isn't pregnant by now, it's likely due to fertility issues. This conversation has me recalling a couple conversations in the show that make me think this. . . .

1. There is definitely a want for children - I vaguely remember an episode of Bringing Up Bates where the producers asked who out of all the siblings would probably follow in their parents footsteps and have 19 kids. I believe it was one of the older girls still living at home (probably Carlin) that answered - "Michael". (Not taking into account that she is probably too old at this point to have that many kids, unless she has multiples.) Also she does light up when she is around the younger siblings - on the show, instagram, etc. Besides the expectations from her family/culture and how she grew up, I believe she really does want as many kids as possible. And it has to be hard for her seeing all 3 of her other married siblings already have or are pregnant with a 2nd child.

2. Odds are they're trying - It might be understandable that they would wait a little while to start trying for kids considering their mutual inexperience in the physical department, but I doubt she would wait almost a year to start. Especially considering how not shy she was about discussing the wedding night with her sisters when they asked her if she was nervous. She firmly said she was not. Brandon's awkwardness aside, fundies find a way. And if they are trying, they wouldn't use BC.

She may be experiencing something similar to Erin, but it seems like they were able to figure out a solution with Erin that allowed her to carry 2 babies so far. Of course she hasn't been on the show or in the public eye much. She could be pregnant already and waiting to announce. 

1st post!

[Audrey2]

Welcome @ReverseTheHierophant. We're glad you're here, and looking forward to reading more from you.

[BunnyBee]

On 9/27/2016 at 7:32 PM, VelociRapture said:

Exactly. I've known for as long as I can remember that I wanted to be a mom one day - I mean, I was a toddler and I knew this was what I wanted to be when I grew up the way others know they want to be a teacher or a Doctor. I figure if I can know that with such certainty for so long then others can absolutely be positive that they don't want kids ever.

And I agree. Going through pregnancy has made me even more sure that having choice in reproductive issues is incredibly important. I'm so grateful for this pregnancy and this baby - but it has been hard at times and I honestly don't think any woman should have to go through it if she doesn't want to, regardless of her reason why.

1

THIS! I have tried to put this exact feeling into words before only to fail and get a blank stare from whomever I am trying to explain this to. 

[JessaBlessa]

Brandon and Michael did post on Instagram last night, but it was just a headshot. 

[season of life]

Someone named Monica Nicole commented on that picture. She is a Trump supporter and even took a photo with that fool. In her bio, it says she'll be marrying Brent Keilen. A family of ignorant jerks for sure.

[alba]

6 hours ago, season of life said:

Someone named Monica Nicole commented on that picture. She is a Trump supporter and even took a photo with that fool. In her bio, it says she'll be marrying Brent Keilen. A family of ignorant jerks for sure.

That's interesting, because I don't see the Bateses, or IBLP/ATI-types in general, as Trump supporters. I'm remembering an article I read a few months back about how Trump said women who have abortions should be imprisoned, and all these fundie pro-life groups were horrified, because they consider women who have abortions to be victims, and they don't want to penalise them.

Personally, I think this is bullshit, because if they really considered women who had abortions to be victims, they'd be in favour of social support programmes to help low-income mothers and they wouldn't slut-shame unwed mothers, but the fact remains that they believe themselves to be looking out for women's best interests. They believe women have been misled by the feminist movement into thinking abortion is a better route than motherhood (because obviously it's that black-and-white and we're just not clever enough to decide for ourselves). It's a very paternalistic, insidious misogyny, but I think people who think this way - and I get the impression the Bateses do - would find Trump's attitude towards women appalling, even though theirs is, really, no better.

[season of life]

Yeah, I'm not sure how fundies will vote considering all his lewd remarks and vulgar behavior. 

[faraway]

13 hours ago, season of life said:

Someone named Monica Nicole commented on that picture. She is a Trump supporter and even took a photo with that fool. In her bio, it says she'll be marrying Brent Keilen. A family of ignorant jerks for sure.

And she calls one Keilen sister her best friend. Which one is the one living in D.C.? Didn't we have hope for her because she was living on her own? Is she doing some political crazy in D.C.? These families...