Michael and Brandon Keilen

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Wonder whether potential infertility issues with Michael might, given the problems that Erin has had, discourage potential suitors for the younger daughters (guys seeking full quivers).  The idea of this is very distasteful to me...but the question came to mind given the emphasis on "children are a blessing" with these folks.

In fact, Michael could be extremely fertile as her mother, but if Brandon is not, kids are not coming (or take years to come). So don't assume that if they don't have kids, it's because Michael. We really don't know.

I doubt Erin's problems are discouraging suitors. First of all, she is 25 and has 2 kids, so she is the proof that someone with her problem can built a family. And second, and let me be a bit ironic here, I think that a lot of fundie young man would be very happy knowing that his wife cannot have 15 kids. Yes, fundies are brainwashed, but I'm sure there's a lot of them raised in crowded homes, who are not willing to have a quiver.

[nastyhobbitses]

On 9/6/2016 at 2:18 PM, QuiverDance said:

30 some odd years later, my mother STILL laughs and laughs and laughs about the long term sub I had in 2nd grade (during a maternity leave for the "real" teacher) who sent home a verb conjugation worksheet for the verb "to fly."  She listed "flied" (not "flew") as the past tense.  Poor teacher.  Let's just say that didn't FLY with the principal of our elementary school (which was a catholic school run by the Dominican Sisters).  

The only times I've ever seen a teacher make that kind of a mistake was when English was very clearly not their native language, but at least they weren't actually teaching English grammar.

[season of life]

Is Michael working right now? She still nannies, or no?

[QuiverDance]

5 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

The only times I've ever seen a teacher make that kind of a mistake was when English was very clearly not their native language, but at least they weren't actually teaching English grammar.

 

This lady was quite old at the time.  A retired elementary teacher subbing for a mat leave.  I think she just had a senior moment.   

[LawsonBatesEgo]

23 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

In fact, Michael could be extremely fertile as her mother, but if Brandon is not, kids are not coming (or take years to come). So don't assume that if they don't have kids, it's because Michael. We really don't know.

I doubt Erin's problems are discouraging suitors. First of all, she is 25 and has 2 kids, so she is the proof that someone with her problem can built a family. And second, and let me be a bit ironic here, I think that a lot of fundie young man would be very happy knowing that his wife cannot have 15 kids. Yes, fundies are brainwashed, but I'm sure there's a lot of them raised in crowded homes, who are not willing to have a quiver.

Veyr true. It is no one's business but their own, but for all we know, Brandon could have a low sperm count or something. Infertility can come from one or both partners. 

But the main thing i wanted to comment on was the second bit. I've thought this before as well. I would imagine there is quite a large number of fundie boys who would be secretly delighted to marry a woman who physically can't have 12+ kids. I'm sure there are a lot of fundie guys who would never admit it out loud, but would prefer to have much smaller families and having a wife with a condition such as Erin's would be an 'easy out' to have a smaller family without being questioned nearly as much about why they are not being 'blessed' every year. 

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

I went on their instagram and on the description where it says "Brandon + Michael Keilen" it said "show translation" underneath. When i clicked it it said "Brandon + Michael wedges". Apparently in some language somewhere, Keilen means wedges. 

[catlady]

19 minutes ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

I went on their instagram and on the description where it says "Brandon + Michael Keilen" it said "show translation" underneath. When i clicked it it said "Brandon + Michael wedges". Apparently in some language somewhere, Keilen means wedges. 

Haha!  I read "wedges" as "wedgies."  yes, that's my inner 12-year-old....

[backyard sylph]

I just asked Google Translate to detect the language, and it told me it's German.

So if that is or was at some point a German surname, it'd be fun to know the context.

[CharlieInCharge]

KEIL     German
Means "wedge shaped" in German. It was used to denote a person who owned a wedge-shaped piece of land.

-lein

suffix used to create a diminutive form; e.g., Kind → Kindlein

 

So if I figured this translation correctly then Keilen = Wedgey 

[JillyO]

While "Keil" means "wedge" in German, their name definitely does not mean "wedgey" since their name is "Keilen", not "Keillein." @CharlieInCharge. Sorry to disappoint. Also, the diminutive form of "Keil" would be "Keilchen," not "Keillein" in either case.

That said, I assume that Brandon's last name comes from distant German ancestors, though Keilen is not a common German name.

[BobTheWalrus]

On 16/08/2016 at 11:24 PM, sophie10130 said:

I agree abstinence only should be left in the church. If churches want to teach that the punishment for sex is a baby, then that's on them. But in PUBLIC schools we should be teaching about all forms. Abstinence is a good thing to remind kids, but at the end of the day it needs to be sex positive.

I think they also should be teaching about all genders and sexualities. At the very least I think they need to bring up asexuality. Most of my ace friends said middle school and high school were super rough because everyone, even down to the health class, expected them to WANT to have sex and they never did. Some of them pushed themselves into relationships that ended up with both parties hurt, and some kids get depressed because they think they are broken.

Abstinence only is always set up to be "We know you want to have sex. Just have some self control and DON'T DO IT." But not everyone wants to have sex.

Yes, I think abstinence can definitely be taught in a sex-positive way.  Even in church I don't believe it should be taught as a "don't do it, or you'll be punished with a baby". It should be taught more as a valid option, and young people should learn how to talk about it like that: "I'm not ready"; "It's not really my thing"; "I'm focusing on xyz right now"; "it's not that important to me at the moment" etc etc.

[alba]

Yes, I think abstinence can definitely be taught in a sex-positive way.  Even in church I don't believe it should be taught as a "don't do it, or you'll be punished with a baby". It should be taught more as a valid option, and young people should learn how to talk about it like that: "I'm not ready"; "It's not really my thing"; "I'm focusing on xyz right now"; "it's not that important to me at the moment" etc etc.

This is how it was taught when I was in high school (about 12 years ago, in Ontario). The focus was essentially on consent, figuring out when you're ready, not peer pressuring/letting peer pressure get to you, and then giving us information on STIs and contraception for when we did decide we were ready.

I do remember sexual orientation being discussed (this was roundabout the time same-sex marriage was legalised, first in Ontario, then Canada-wide, so it was very much on people's minds at the time), but not asexuality.

[Alachantal]

On 8/18/2016 at 5:42 PM, CorruptionInc. said:

I have two friends that are getting married in November.

They don't want kids yet, but they have said in 5 or 10 years, who knows?

People are already asking "when are you going to have kids?" and when they say: "not yet or maybe not at all" the whole room goes silent.

I don't understand how people think it's ok to ask about it. It's such a deeply personal choice. 

These are the same people who when I explain over and over again that everything has been removed because of medical reasons they still have this magical thought I can still get pregnant...

Also, my friend is allergic to latex so that makes things awkward.

I get the same reaction as your friends and it drives me fucking nuts. I'm getting married in April and everyone is already asking when we'll have children. I DO NOT want any kids, and Fiance is undecided (but knows my opinion) and everyone always goes silent when I tell them before saying "oh you'll change your mind". Like, umm, no, I won't, sorry to disappoint you? Even my mother tried to tell me I'm being selfish for not wanting kids, when I really feel like it's more selfish to have kids that you don't want and are only having because you've been told you have to. But we'll see. If I'm off the highway and we're very established and we're married and it happens, well it happens and we'll go from there, that's what Fiance and I have agreed at least.

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, Alachantal said:

I get the same reaction as your friends and it drives me fucking nuts. I'm getting married in April and everyone is already asking when we'll have children. I DO NOT want any kids, and Fiance is undecided (but knows my opinion) and everyone always goes silent when I tell them before saying "oh you'll change your mind". Like, umm, no, I won't, sorry to disappoint you? Even my mother tried to tell me I'm being selfish for not wanting kids, when I really feel like it's more selfish to have kids that you don't want and are only having because you've been told you have to. But we'll see. If I'm off the highway and we're very established and we're married and it happens, well it happens and we'll go from there, that's what Fiance and I have agreed at least.

I agree with you. I think the fact that you've thought it over and decided what's best for you personally shows a lot of maturity and a distinct lack of selfishness. The fact that some people don't grasp that is kind of mind boggling to me. Last thing anyone should want is for a child to be born to someone who isn't ready or doesn't want kids or anything like that - because while many people turn out to be spectacular parents in those situations, there are also a lot of people who end up resentful and bitter too.

(Said by the Dinosaur currently pregnant with a very wanted Velocibaby) 

[CorruptionInc.]

23 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think the fact that you've thought it over and decided what's best for you personally shows a lot of maturity and a distinct lack of selfishness.

^ 100% on the money here!

You have a right to be confident in your decisions and it's good you are. Stuff the rest of the people!!!

I have to give props to my mum, who is so catholic it hurts, but even she knows she has 4 human grandchildren and 2 fluffy ones. 

Her fluffy ones are affectionately called "four legged grandchildren". 

[Alachantal]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I agree with you. I think the fact that you've thought it over and decided what's best for you personally shows a lot of maturity and a distinct lack of selfishness. The fact that some people don't grasp that is kind of mind boggling to me. Last thing anyone should want is for a child to be born to someone who isn't ready or doesn't want kids or anything like that - because while many people turn out to be spectacular parents in those situations, there are also a lot of people who end up resentful and bitter too.

(Said by the Dinosaur currently pregnant with a very wanted Velocibaby) 

I agree with you completely. There are so many children out there who are stuck in homes where they aren't wanted and nobody is happy. My own mother, being Catholic, had my brother and I because it was "expected" regardless of her true wishes. When she harps on us about giving her grandchildren, I'm just like what is wrong with you? We gave her two grandcats, why can't that be good enough lol.

And not everyone is maternal just because they're a woman. Frankly, I see a small child and my first instinct is I kind of want to pet it like you would a puppy, meaning, I have no idea what to do with it. 

For us, we make over 150k/year combined and own a condo, so we could in theory afford a child. But I drive on the highway and am home only 36-48 hours each week while he drives in town (same company, which is convenient most of the time lol), and I'd have to give that up for children, which frankly I don't want to do. I'd be miserable if I were to stay at home for mat leave (I told Fiance I'll take 2 weeks vacation after having a kid & he'll have to take parental leave for a year or however long ), and I'd be miserable if I had to switch from highway to local driving, and I'd be constantly even more worried than I am now with highway driving (just on Friday I had some moron pass me around a sharp corner in the Fraser Canyon in fog where I couldn't see past my hood, if another truck had come the opposite direction I don't want to think of what could've happened). And I know when I try to explain exactly that to someone who tells me to have kids anyways, I'm told all my reasons are selfish, and maybe they are, but if I found out tomorrow I was pregnant, I'd be miserable the whole pregnancy and I know I'd have bad feelings of resentment towards the kid for the rest of its/my life, and who the hell wants that? Nor do I want to physically have a child, scares the shit out of me, not that probably doesn't scare almost everyone having one at some point.

We figure 5 years from now when we're in our 30s, if an accident happens then we'll (probably) have the kid, and we'll be in a place where we can raise it and give it everything we feel it would deserve (everything above the basics, I grew up poor and sometimes didn't have even the basics). It quite honestly makes me very glad that I live in Canada now and have the access to birth control and proper sex ed from the beginning so that I didn't end up in a place I don't want to be with a child I don't want to have.

ps: so excited for you and your Velocibaby! 

pps: thanks for letting me vent on FJ 

[actuallyjessica]

11 hours ago, Alachantal said:

I get the same reaction as your friends and it drives me fucking nuts. I'm getting married in April and everyone is already asking when we'll have children. I DO NOT want any kids, and Fiance is undecided (but knows my opinion) and everyone always goes silent when I tell them before saying "oh you'll change your mind". Like, umm, no, I won't, sorry to disappoint you? Even my mother tried to tell me I'm being selfish for not wanting kids, when I really feel like it's more selfish to have kids that you don't want and are only having because you've been told you have to. But we'll see. If I'm off the highway and we're very established and we're married and it happens, well it happens and we'll go from there, that's what Fiance and I have agreed at least.

So how does that work?

[Casserole]

11 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

^ 100% on the money here!

You have a right to be confident in your decisions and it's good you are. Stuff the rest of the people!!!

I have to give props to my mum, who is so catholic it hurts, but even she knows she has 4 human grandchildren and 2 fluffy ones. 

Her fluffy ones are affectionately called "four legged grandchildren". 

My mom picked out her grandma "name" and decided she would be Grammie to my pups. I actually do want children but since I am permanently single with zero prospects and I don't drink or go places to meet people, I think she has given up and accepted the four legged grandchildren as her own. 

[twinmama]

On 9/26/2016 at 6:51 PM, Alachantal said:

Even my mother tried to tell me I'm being selfish for not wanting kids

This is bizarre. I mean you don't OWE her grandchildren and it's *kind of* your decision to make!!! 

I can understand family being sad though, both my sister in law and her husband, and my brother in law and his wife, have decided not to have kids and it makes me super sad. That is the selfish thing, I want them to have kids because I want nieces and nephews that live near me! My only source of niece/nephew is 1000 miles away with my brother and his wife and child! Note that I would never in a billion years tell my BIL or SIL that I wished they'd have a kid, lol. 

I think the fact that you've thought it over and decided what's best for you personally shows a lot of maturity and a distinct lack of selfishness. The fact that some people don't grasp that is kind of mind boggling to me.

I honestly don't know how anyone who has a child of their own could think that everyone should have children. Seriously, I wanted kids from the time I was like 13 probably, I tried and tried and planned my kids and it is still crazy ass hard. Also why I became even more pro-choice during my pregnancy, no one should be forced to do that if they don't 100% want to. Also crazy ass hard. I love my kids but they changed every single bit of my life when they were born. It's unrecognizable now, in a great way for me, but that isn't for everyone.

[VelociRapture]

7 minutes ago, twinmama said:

This is bizarre. I mean you don't OWE her grandchildren and it's *kind of* your decision to make!!! 

I can understand family being sad though, both my sister in law and her husband, and my brother in law and his wife, have decided not to have kids and it makes me super sad. That is the selfish thing, I want them to have kids because I want nieces and nephews that live near me! My only source of niece/nephew is 1000 miles away with my brother and his wife and child! Note that I would never in a billion years tell my BIL or SIL that I wished they'd have a kid, lol. 

I honestly don't know how anyone who has a child of their own could think that everyone should have children. Seriously, I wanted kids from the time I was like 13 probably, I tried and tried and planned my kids and it is still crazy ass hard. Also why I became even more pro-choice during my pregnancy, no one should be forced to do that if they don't 100% want to. Also crazy ass hard. I love my kids but they changed every single bit of my life when they were born. It's unrecognizable now, in a great way for me, but that isn't for everyone.

Exactly. I've known for as long as I can remember that I wanted to be a mom one day - I mean, I was a toddler and I knew this was what I wanted to be when I grew up the way others know they want to be a teacher or a Doctor. I figure if I can know that with such certainty for so long then others can absolutely be positive that they don't want kids ever.

And I agree. Going through pregnancy has made me even more sure that having choice in reproductive issues is incredibly important. I'm so grateful for this pregnancy and this baby - but it has been hard at times and I honestly don't think any woman should have to go through it if she doesn't want to, regardless of her reason why.

[Chevreuil]

On 26/09/2016 at 8:46 PM, Alachantal said:

I agree with you completely. There are so many children out there who are stuck in homes where they aren't wanted and nobody is happy. My own mother, being Catholic, had my brother and I because it was "expected" regardless of her true wishes. When she harps on us about giving her grandchildren, I'm just like what is wrong with you? We gave her two grandcats, why can't that be good enough lol.

And not everyone is maternal just because they're a woman. Frankly, I see a small child and my first instinct is I kind of want to pet it like you would a puppy, meaning, I have no idea what to do with it. 

For us, we make over 150k/year combined and own a condo, so we could in theory afford a child. But I drive on the highway and am home only 36-48 hours each week while he drives in town (same company, which is convenient most of the time lol), and I'd have to give that up for children, which frankly I don't want to do. I'd be miserable if I were to stay at home for mat leave (I told Fiance I'll take 2 weeks vacation after having a kid & he'll have to take parental leave for a year or however long ), and I'd be miserable if I had to switch from highway to local driving, and I'd be constantly even more worried than I am now with highway driving (just on Friday I had some moron pass me around a sharp corner in the Fraser Canyon in fog where I couldn't see past my hood, if another truck had come the opposite direction I don't want to think of what could've happened). And I know when I try to explain exactly that to someone who tells me to have kids anyways, I'm told all my reasons are selfish, and maybe they are, but if I found out tomorrow I was pregnant, I'd be miserable the whole pregnancy and I know I'd have bad feelings of resentment towards the kid for the rest of its/my life, and who the hell wants that? Nor do I want to physically have a child, scares the shit out of me, not that probably doesn't scare almost everyone having one at some point.

We figure 5 years from now when we're in our 30s, if an accident happens then we'll (probably) have the kid, and we'll be in a place where we can raise it and give it everything we feel it would deserve (everything above the basics, I grew up poor and sometimes didn't have even the basics). It quite honestly makes me very glad that I live in Canada now and have the access to birth control and proper sex ed from the beginning so that I didn't end up in a place I don't want to be with a child I don't want to have.

ps: so excited for you and your Velocibaby! 

pps: thanks for letting me vent on FJ 

(to the bolded) I play fetch with my kids all the time. They think it great fun to retrieve the ball. 

I always find the best place to start with little kids (talking age 3-6+) is to talk about animals. My kids would go crazy to hear about your cats, they remember pet names better than people names.

[CorruptionInc.]

3 hours ago, Chevreuil said:

(to the bolded) I play fetch with my kids all the time. They think it great fun to retrieve the ball. 

I always find the best place to start with little kids (talking age 3-6+) is to talk about animals. My kids would go crazy to hear about your cats, they remember pet names better than people names.

Yeah my nieces and nephews really love my young cat (she's 1) and are all over her. Luckily she is the most friendly fuzzy you'll ever meet and will put up with hours of holding, squeezing and poking. If it was my old boy (who is 12) he'd lose his sh*t.

[Granwych]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 8:46 PM, Alachantal said:

scares the shit out of me, not that probably doesn't scare almost everyone having one at some point.

Quite rightly it scares almost everyone, especially the smart ones.

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

I seem to bounce really quickly between being desperately broody and never wanting children ever, lol. I'm 24 so I have plenty of time yet. It's honestly like:

- TShirts sees a very cute baby - ooh I really want babies! Look how cute! The tiny feet! So beautiful!

- TShirts hears baby screaming - OMG never want one of them ever, can't be doing with that all the time

- TShirts thinks about having children, pushing them in pram, helping them with homework, teaching them to be a good person,  seeing LongTrousers being a dad, gets broody again.

- TShirts thinks about having to get up super early and through the night and all the money spent on babies and thinks, "I like sleep and money too much to have children"...

And all this happens in the space of a few hours!

My feeling is that as long as I'm indecided about it then I shouldn't have them, and i thank my lucky stars every day that I live in a place where I can get free and easily available birth control with no judgement, and don't have to make that choice.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

I seem to bounce really quickly between being desperately broody and never wanting children ever, lol. I'm 24 so I have plenty of time yet. It's honestly like:

- TShirts sees a very cute baby - ooh I really want babies! Look how cute! The tiny feet! So beautiful!

- TShirts hears baby screaming - OMG never want one of them ever, can't be doing with that all the time

- TShirts thinks about having children, pushing them in pram, helping them with homework, teaching them to be a good person,  seeing LongTrousers being a dad, gets broody again.

- TShirts thinks about having to get up super early and through the night and all the money spent on babies and thinks, "I like sleep and money too much to have children"...

And all this happens in the space of a few hours!

My feeling is that as long as I'm indecided about it then I shouldn't have them, and i thank my lucky stars every day that I live in a place where I can get free and easily available birth control with no judgement, and don't have to make that choice.

I'm the same way. I go between full-on Baby Rabies (like when I spent most of a housewarming party minding the most adorable two-year-old) and psychically thanking my gynecologist for installing my IUD (like when a kid two rows ahead of me on a flight screamed bloody murder for two hours straight).