Michael and Brandon Keilen

[amers]

Kelly uses Abeka Academy. It's a dvd program. It's what I use with my child. It's really comprehensive, and seems to be about a grade or half grade ahead of public school. The science is lacking. Otherwise, they watch the dvds, then do their workbooks. Sometimes this I'd done along with the class on the video. There isn't a ton of teaching for her, or Tori to be doing, minus checking work or doing the homework. 

[Exjw2015deed]

2 hours ago, amers said:

Kelly uses Abeka Academy. It's a dvd program. It's what I use with my child. It's really comprehensive, and seems to be about a grade or half grade ahead of public school. The science is lacking. Otherwise, they watch the dvds, then do their workbooks. Sometimes this I'd done along with the class on the video. There isn't a ton of teaching for her, or Tori to be doing, minus checking work or doing the homework. 

So the bates don't use wisdom booklets?!!! Isn't Gil on the board, why wouldn't his children use a different program? Also, if you don't mind me asking how much would it cost per student? And when they graduate, could they walk with local schools?

[formergothardite]

I think she claims she uses Wisdom Booklets for Bible and Character training.  This is the cost of the video program:

http://www.abekaacademy.org/homeschool/financialinfo/videocost.aspx

This is just another example of what vile people Gil and Kelly are. They convince people to pay lots of money to use the IBLP curriculum they know is a worthless pile of shit. Most families can't afford to run out and buy another curriculum. 

[Casserole]

never noticed that A Beka is copyright of Pensacola Christian College... and if you enroll your child in all grades 9-12 curriculum you receive a scholarship to... you guessed it, PCC! small world  Though it seems you can pay extra for an accredited high school diploma; too bad PCC doesn't offer that option. 

[amers]

2 hours ago, Exjw2015deed said:

So the bates don't use wisdom booklets?!!! Isn't Gil on the board, why wouldn't his children use a different program? Also, if you don't mind me asking how much would it cost per student? And when they graduate, could they walk with local schools?

It's  $700 per student if you need the books too but they have a payment plan. It can be accredited. Most states don't require accreditation, and I don't think Tennessee does. The accredited program is very hard. It's strict. They want perfection, and so we chose not to do that. I don't know of any state where a homeschooled kid can walk with thiers class. I think you can go to Pensacola if you did the accredited program and walk with them. There's not a lot of need for it though. I don't know of any homeschooled person who had trouble getting into college, if they were properly educated in whatever manner. 

 

I was very shocked when she posted a video saying they use the dvd program. Mainly because it's so costly. You don't keep the dvds. You get them for one year, and you have to ship them back or pay a $400 charge if they are even late. So she'd be enrolling each kid, each year. That is at minimum a $500 cost per kid. You can just do certain subject groups, but that is still a few hundred per kid. 

 

I'm not fundie or even close, but I like it. It's well rounded and we supplement that science. 

2 hours ago, Casserole said:

never noticed that A Beka is copyright of Pensacola Christian College... and if you enroll your child in all grades 9-12 curriculum you receive a scholarship to... you guessed it, PCC! small world  Though it seems you can pay extra for an accredited high school diploma; too bad PCC doesn't offer that option. 

You pay extra, but that also means you are submitting your work and being graded. It's really, really hard. I'd never do accredited, unless we had too. I'm talking, they want 1st grade cursive writing perfect or you fail. My kid is learning stuff I don't even know and I'm 34 and not too stupid. 

[twinmama]

On 8/22/2016 at 10:57 AM, BeaSnarky said:

And it is still a very painful question for me.  I am past being kind about my responses now.  I just out and say, "it's none of your damned business."  I still have people who will respond "Well, you know there's always adoption."  

I am completely against hitting people for any reason, but the urge to slap those people across the face would be so strong for me. I'm sorry people are so stupid and you have to deal with that.

On 8/22/2016 at 3:23 PM, Nikedagain? said:

My late (ex) mother in law was a glorious southern belle. There was never discussion of such things around her. If she heard someone say the word "pregnant" she corrected them (in a whisper..) to "expecting". 

LOL My Bostonian grandmother would tell me young ladies didn't sweat, they perspired or glistened. I was a big time gymnast when I was young and laughed so hard every time she tried to tell me that. Trust me, I was sweating my ass off!

[Coconut Flan]

Maybe using the DVDs is the reason behind having two kids of slightly different ages in the same grade.  They can both use the same or some of the same DVDs.

[Exjw2015deed]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

Maybe using the DVDs is the reason behind having two kids of slightly different ages in the same grade.  They can both use the same or some of the same DVDs.

Good point. It would explain trace and carlin graduating together. I wonder if that programs make stipulations though to avoid people doubling up. In that case, you could share the dvd with family or friends that have kids the same age. 

But still, I doubt that they used this program for all their children. I know they didn't own a television or a computer when first shown on 17KAC. Plus Gil and Kelly seemed to be scrapping buy so I doubt they could've afforded such an expensive program.

edit: nvm I checked their website, the bates family said they've been using this for over 20 years. So probably they definitely doubled up.

[amers]

10 minutes ago, Exjw2015deed said:

Good point. It would explain trace and carlin graduating together. I wonder if that programs make stipulations though to avoid people doubling up. In that case, you could share the dvd with family or friends that have kids the same age. 

But still, I doubt that they used this program for all their children. I know they didn't own a television or a computer when first shown on 17KAC. Plus Gil and Kelly seemed to be scrapping buy so I doubt they could've afforded such an expensive program.

edit: nvm I checked their website, the bates family said they've been using this for over 20 years. So probably they definitely doubled up.

Which, gasp, is lying. Abeka makes it clear you are to enroll each child. I looked into that, and they specifically state they dont want you to only pay for one kid and double up. Which is kind of crappy, and they would never know. If shes used it for twenty years she knows that, and is clearly lying. I mean, I wouldnt pay extra if I had two in the same grade, but I wouldnt also tout how godly I was on tv. How did they afford it?? 19 kids times 700 a year (give or take)/per kid. That math makes my head hurt. Im dreading next year when ill have two to educate. 

[Bethella]

Seriously people, I don't like the Bates anymore than the next snarker but accusing them of lying about Abeka without any proof is absurd! All @Coconut Flan did was SPECULATE that they might have doubled up with two kids in one grade level. It's certainly possible, maybe even likely that they did double up but speculation doesn't equal proof. Unless we have a copy of their Abeka order form showing them only purchasing x-grades of curiculum for x+n children we really have no way of knowing what they did or did not pay for.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

You can also use Abeka without the DVDs.

[formergothardite]

So they couldn't afford to feed their children or pay for them to go to the doctor, but we are supposed to believe that they have been purchasing an expensive homeschool curriculum for 20 years on top of paying for ATI each year?

This isn't the first time Kelly has said that, but if you look at the first saved page on the Wayback machine where Kelly lists resources she uses, Abeka isn't even on there. BJU is there, ATI is the backbone of their homeschooling, and then she lists various things from Timberdoodle. I'll have to go back and check, but I think she also lists David Gibbs Jr., the guy who helped Gil and Company with their "investigation" into abuse allegations, as a wonderful resource for your family. 

 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

8 hours ago, Bethella said:

Seriously people, I don't like the Bates anymore than the next snarker but accusing them of lying about Abeka without any proof is absurd! All @Coconut Flan did was SPECULATE that they might have doubled up with two kids in one grade level. It's certainly possible, maybe even likely that they did double up but speculation doesn't equal proof. Unless we have a copy of their Abeka order form showing them only purchasing x-grades of curiculum for x+n children we really have no way of knowing what they did or did not pay for.

Oh, I don't think Kelly can be caught in many outright lies but she is an expert at misdirection.  My favorite recent example being posting photos of vacationing at Niagara Falls when they were at Big Sandy giving presentations.  

They also wiped the blog of a lot of embarrassing stuff.  That is not lying it's just hiding evidence.

The Bateses are also expert grifters, remember.

As far as A-Beka is concerned, she *may* have been using it to supplement ATI's Wisdom Booklets for years. Or not.   She possibly only endorsed it publicly in return for cold hard cash or to have it comped for the younger kids when the Bateses got famous on TV.

It's like the Duggars suddenly starting to use and promote Switched on Schoolhouse and endorsing College Minus.  Product placement rules - and both families have taken full advantage of that.

[Purrl]

I've never used ABeka videos so I can't speak to that, but many (if not most) homeschoolers do group their children together in fewer grades. It makes teaching easier for one thing and a big part of homeschooling is so that your children can advance at their own pace. I only had one child and she worked in different grade level books at the same time. She moved quickly through most subjects, but lagged a bit in Math so we spent more time there.

[JillyO]

4 hours ago, Purrl said:

I've never used ABeka videos so I can't speak to that, but many (if not most) homeschoolers do group their children together in fewer grades. It makes teaching easier for one thing and a big part of homeschooling is so that your children can advance at their own pace. I only had one child and she worked in different grade level books at the same time. She moved quickly through most subjects, but lagged a bit in Math so we spent more time there.

Isn't that kind of a contradiction, though? Either you group a few of them together for convenience or you give each one the opportunity to advance at their own pace. I fail to see how you can do both.

[jakesykora]

5 hours ago, JillyO said:

Isn't that kind of a contradiction, though? Either you group a few of them together for convenience or you give each one the opportunity to advance at their own pace. I fail to see how you can do both.

Having taught in what was essentially a one room schoolhouse with different grades I know that's what I basically did with most subjects, math being the primary exception.

For instance, the kids might all be working on sentence structure in grammar/language arts/English . They obviously had their individual instruction that was totally on target for where they were each at in their respective education level, from basic sentence formation for the youngest, all the way to fine-tuning for college prep tests for the oldest.  So the essence of it was the same, just grade and level specific.

In something like history, where here where I taught (I've taught in a traditional school as well) once you hit 3rd grade, what you study in history varies and it's an overarching 'theme' for  the year (state history, US history, world history etc.) Instead of them each studying the grade specific history, they all did US history one year so we could all talk about it, while also tailoring it to their grade level. And since even in public school those essentially repeat, no matter their grade at the time, they'd have had both the younger elementary, middle school, and high school versions of each history genre, just not necessarily the year they'd have had it in public  school.

Having taught in both this non-traditional one room schoolhouse setting, as well as in a traditional school setting, in many ways I think it's actually almost just what any good teacher does in a traditional single grade classroom, just on a larger scale. As even in a traditional classroom a teacher may end up doing significant customization  for  where each of their students are at within in that single grade, and according to their learning styles, etc.

[formergothardite]

@jakesykora, there is a difference between adapting a theme for multiple grades and grouping children in the same grade to make it easier on the mom. I don't really know any homeschoolers who do the latter, but I do know several who do the first.  They would never say that they are putting their children in the same grade for convenience, they would say they are all studying the same thing, but doing activities at the appropriate grade levels. 

But @JillyO, you can't shove multiple kids into one grade to make it easy on mom all while also claiming you are letting them learn at their own pace. If they are learning at their own pace, they will most likely be in various grades, perhaps studying the same subject, but again, not doing work at the same grade level. 

[JillyO]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But @JillyO, you can't shove multiple kids into one grade to make it easy on mom all while also claiming you are letting them learn at their own pace. If they are learning at their own pace, they will most likely be in various grades, perhaps studying the same subject, but again, not doing work at the same grade level. 

Maybe you tagged the wrong person, since that's pretty much exactly what I said?

[formergothardite]

I just left out part of my sentence which was supposed to say JillyO is right. 

[BoPeep]

13 hours ago, JillyO said:

Isn't that kind of a contradiction, though? Either you group a few of them together for convenience or you give each one the opportunity to advance at their own pace. I fail to see how you can do both.

You can group kids together in common subjects, and allow them to get ahead in the areas in which they excell.  Science and history, music, Bible....are subjects which don't require each grade to learn something different.  And moving from state to state, there isn't a given age/grade when all students learn American history, or state history, etc.  A local Christian school taught two grades together for history and science (7+8, 9+10, 11+12).  Those age groups are similar in learning maturity.

English is another subject that is very similar from year to year, at least in the elementary years, so it is easily adapted from one lesson into more than one grade.  Now a 1st grader and a 6th grader will be on different levels, but 2-3, & 4-6 could be very similar in what they learn.  (I feel 1st, and possibly even 2nd, when kids are first learning to read need structured differently.)

My two are one grade apart, and learn most subjects together.  My dd excels in writing (not spelling, bless her heart!), and so while they both do the same grammar lessons, I give her more writing.  Ds gets enough writing, but I tailor it more to his person.  Even then he grumbles, but I'm not a pushover, lol.  They do math separately, in their own grade level.  This yr they've chosen different sciences, as one wanted to learn about botany, while the other, oceanography.  They started Spanish this yr in Rosetta stone, and are progressing at their own paces.  Same with Spelling...the younger out-spells the elder!  ....So there is a bit of grouping and a bit of letting them work at a good pace for each child.  

 

How that works for 19 kids, vs 2?  I don't have that experience.  The only thought in my mind are school teachers with a classroom full of children to work with each day.   Though that is 30 kids in roughly 3 levels within a grade (those who excel without trying, those who need to work but understand soon, and those who need extra work from the teacher), not 13 separate grades + babies/toddlers + adult children.

[feministxtian]

Teachers and grammar:

I used to send back teacher's notes with the grammar and spelling corrected. If this dumbass w/nothing but an AAS degree can figure out how to properly use the English language, what does that say for the people entrusted with teaching my kids? That was probably the biggest reason I ended up homeschooling for awhile. 

[sophie10130]

To be a physics teacher I received no training on grammar and was tested on it only once on a Basic Skills state test I had to take in order to get my license. The grammar section of the Basic Skills test was smaller and more broad than the ACT or SAT I took in high school.

If they aren't the grammar or English teacher, I understand it's annoying (even though I don't agree with being a grammar stickler in most cases), but ultimately not their area of expertise.

[feministxtian]

IF you are a 5th grade classroom teacher and don't know the difference between your and you're or to, too and two, then I think you're too damn stupid to teach. Even in other subjects, I expect a certain level of education that I didn't see 

[Purrl]

Maybe my example was too broad. What I meant to say is that sometimes a 5th grader cannot do what the curriculum writers have decided is 5th grade work so the parents might choose to teach him from 4th grade books along with his sibling who would be considered in 3rd grade age-wise but is ready to do 4th grade work. Therefore, each is working at his own pace and the mother has the convenience of just teaching from one grade level of the curriculum. This is, in essence, easier than trying to do extra work with each child to keep them on what is considered grade-level. This never applied to me as I only had one child to teach and chose her curriculum according to her abilities & interests. I am only sharing what I heard from my friends who were homeschooling multiple children at one time. 

[marmalade]

On 8/26/2016 at 6:56 AM, Exjw2015deed said:

Agreed. He has said it so many times in so many different words. I remember him saying most people go to school and work in a field that they didn't even study. That's true to some extent but many jobs require a degree no matter what. The world is not the same as it was in 1986 when he was 18. If Josh Duggar was never on tv, there's no way he would be qualified to even work at that hate group in D.C. They need to admit it is tlc, not god, who has given them all that they have. 

Gil and Kelly both have degrees that they don't use, which is why im surprised they encourage their children to even spend their money on clown college. 

Small nitpick, Kelly actually got a degree in chemistry (that's how she met Gil; she was his chem tutor). They have shown her on the show teaching actual chemistry concepts to her kids. I think they only teaching we've ever seen from the Duggars are Wisdom Booklets and sitting at banks of computers while they complete Switched on Dchoolhouse assignments. Hell, Jessa was the admin for years, passing or failing her siblings' tests. I can't remember what Gil's degree was in, but unlike Jim Bob Duggar, he actually worked in Corporate America for many years before he went full-on fundie. I have no love for the Bateseseses, but I do think that Gil and Kelly  (well, Gil until he quit his job and started grifting) set better examples, at least for the older kids, than the senior Duggars ever have.