Michael and Brandon Keilen

[BeccaGrim]

Nothing gets people more worked up than the subject of education.  Can we all agree (While disagreeing on specifics) that the way the Bates home-school and the Duggars home-school and the Maxwell's home-school leaves a lot to be desired?  

[QuiverDance]

30 some odd years later, my mother STILL laughs and laughs and laughs about the long term sub I had in 2nd grade (during a maternity leave for the "real" teacher) who sent home a verb conjugation worksheet for the verb "to fly."  She listed "flied" (not "flew") as the past tense.  Poor teacher.  Let's just say that didn't FLY with the principal of our elementary school (which was a catholic school run by the Dominican Sisters).  

[season of life]

I think that if Michael doesn't announce anything by the end of 2017, the baby speculation will fade because everyone else got pregnant so quickly. People will just look to the next married Bates. I hope she is enjoying married life right now and Brandon makes her happy.

[VelociRapture]

9 hours ago, season of life said:

I think that if Michael doesn't announce anything by the end of 2017, the baby speculation will fade because everyone else got pregnant so quickly. People will just look to the next married Bates. I hope she is enjoying married life right now and Brandon makes her happy.

I really hope the rampant social media speculation ends well before that. Can you imagine having to deal with those comments for another year? 

[CharlieInCharge]

I was just looking through the recent comments on the pictures of the Keilen's with their new nieces. It seems like the vast majority of commenters are not asking about potential pregnancy and are actively policing those that do. Some posters have shared personal loss stories and are calling out any baby/pregnancy questions as insensitive. Others are expressing sympathy and encouraging everyone to be respectful. Dare I hope the trolls are being defeated and light shines on the net once more? Probably not, but it is still nice to see people act decent online.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, CharlieInCharge said:

I was just looking through the recent comments on the pictures of the Keilen's with their new nieces. It seems like the vast majority of commenters are not asking about potential pregnancy and are actively policing those that do. Some posters have shared personal loss stories and are calling out any baby/pregnancy questions as insensitive. Others are expressing sympathy and encouraging everyone to be respectful. Dare I hope the trolls are being defeated and light shines on the net once more? Probably not, but it is still nice to see people act decent online.

Just took a look. Thank  those fans are starting to speak up more. And that they're doing so with a great deal of compassion and civility too. Hopefully Michael sees those comments and finds comfort in them if there is anything going on privately.

[feministxtian]

On 9/6/2016 at 11:18 AM, QuiverDance said:

30 some odd years later, my mother STILL laughs and laughs and laughs about the long term sub I had in 2nd grade (during a maternity leave for the "real" teacher) who sent home a verb conjugation worksheet for the verb "to fly."  She listed "flied" (not "flew") as the past tense.  Poor teacher.  Let's just say that didn't FLY with the principal of our elementary school (which was a catholic school run by the Dominican Sisters).  

My grade school was run by Dominicans too. High school was Benedictines. 

[Melissa1977]

Are fundies OK with assisted reproduction? I mean, we know that they're OK with any medical help to keep a pregnancy. But when pregnancy doesn't occur, would they accept an IVF?

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Are fundies OK with assisted reproduction? I mean, we know that they're OK with any medical help to keep a pregnancy. But when pregnancy doesn't occur, would they accept an IVF?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it depended on the type of Fundie. Some may be ok with it, others may not be ok.

I'm not positive, but I don't believe IBLP is ok with it. Because it's playing God and because it's likely not all the embryos will be used - which is somehow exactly the same as murdering a fully functional adult to them. 

[HereticHick]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Are fundies OK with assisted reproduction? I mean, we know that they're OK with any medical help to keep a pregnancy. But when pregnancy doesn't occur, would they accept an IVF?

 

I don't think Gothard approves of it, and it is also VERY expensive in the US

[jqlgoblue]

I find it odd they'd think IVF was bad. I'd like to know more about that...

I can't imagine they'd have a problem with taking a pill to have the woman ovulate more. That said, it would be prohibitively expensive for nearly all of these kids (unless the parents provided extra money from their TV shows).

If there is something medical going on I do hope that they find a 'good' doctor and aren't just 'praying on it'. It seems Erin was able to find someone knowledgeable enough to help. While I don't like that these families have boatloads of kids ... I do want them to be happy.

 

[CharlieInCharge]

I scouted around online but I couldn't find any ATI/IBLP sources specifically addressing infertility treatments. According to Wiki (uncited) and other quiverfull references it definitely looks like any treatments would be off-limits. God chooses to both 'open and close the womb' so infertile couples should just pray that God will miraculously send them a child or adopt because that is still trusting God will 'send' you a child. 

As I said before it seems any treatment for infertility would be seen as not trusting God and his plan for you life. You would be directly defying God's will. After reading all this I'm thinking any infertile Quiverfull couples would be looked down on for trusting medical science over God. 

[QuiverDance]

I would imagine the problem with IVF would be what to do with the embryos that are not implanted.  IDK abotu Clomid or IUI... That might be different.  I really hope Michael is not hurting over not being pregnant.  

[OldFadedStar]

10 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I would imagine the problem with IVF would be what to do with the embryos that are not implanted.  IDK abotu Clomid or IUI... That might be different.  I really hope Michael is not hurting over not being pregnant.  

I know that Zsu has said that about IVF. Or something like that. She thinks the loss of lives due to non implantation is awful.

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, jqlgoblue said:

If there is something medical going on I do hope that they find a 'good' doctor and aren't just 'praying on it'. It seems Erin was able to find someone knowledgeable enough to help. While I don't like that these families have boatloads of kids ... I do want them to be happy.

I'd be surprised if they haven't visited Dr. Vick by now.  Yes, he's in TN and they live in IL, but they seem to visit the family pretty often.

[justmy2cents]

Sometimes it's something very simple like progesterone support if the woman's luteal phase is too short (you need  about 12-14 days after ovulation or an embryo doesn't have enough time to implant) and they don't need to resort to IVF.  

These days young couples are only recommended to transfer one embryo at a time, sometimes 2.  The rest can be frozen and transferred at a later date and we know they would eventually transfer every single last one of them.  They wouldn't need to discard any unused embryos at all.  

A lot of fundies just don't bother to find out the facts.

[Duggadict]

you can adopt out non implanted embryos/. 

[CreationMuseumCurator]

1 hour ago, OldFadedStar said:

I know that Zsu has said that about IVF. Or something like that. She thinks the loss of lives due to non implantation is awful.

I found and very quickly fell down the Zsu IVF rabbit hole this morning (unrelated to this thread). Holy hell, that woman is crazy. In one of her posts, she copy-pasted a woman's timeline with IVF, and then commented about the 72 murders she'd taken part in. She also believes that the freezing of embryos is torture. 

[imokit]

I'm pretty sure Kelly has admitted to fertility drugs in the past, whether it was just progesterone or more I'm not sure.  I've looked for links but can't find it.

IVF is a no, because if they don't use all the embreyos then that's abortion.  But they use medicine to keep women pregnant (Erin & Kelly), so whether they'd stimulate ovulation I don't know.

That said 20% of infertility it all the man's fault.  So it may be that traditional fertility drugs wouldn't work anyway.

http://www.urology.wisc.edu/specialties/male-factor-infertility-and-sexual-health/male-factor-infertility/

[Coconut Flan]

10 minutes ago, imokit said:

I'm pretty sure Kelly has admitted to fertility drugs in the past, whether it was just progesterone or more I'm not sure.  I've looked for links but can't find it.

Kelly did take progesterone for the last few pregnancies, but is not a "fertility drug."  It is used, especially by older women, to maintain the pregnancy when the woman does not produce enough to sustain the pregnancy after conception.  It doesn't enhance conception and usually isn't taken until about the time when conception would occur. 

[Dandruff]

Wonder whether potential infertility issues with Michael might, given the problems that Erin has had, discourage potential suitors for the younger daughters (guys seeking full quivers).  The idea of this is very distasteful to me...but the question came to mind given the emphasis on "children are a blessing" with these folks.

[Mela99]

5 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

I know that Zsu has said that about IVF. Or something like that. She thinks the loss of lives due to non implantation is awful.

You know I don't get that mindset... Every month something may not implant... Why isn't it God's will if you do IVF and some of the eggs don't take? 

[Arix]

1 hour ago, Mela99 said:

You know I don't get that mindset... Every month something may not implant... Why isn't it God's will if you do IVF and some of the eggs don't take? 

No, typically IVF implants *embryos*, and typically not all the created ones are used.

[Mela99]

Just now, Arix said:

No, typically IVF implants *embryos*, and typically not all the created ones are used.

Right, I get that, I'm doing IVF in March - but I was more thinking that they would worry it would be risking them not implanting and thus killing a life. Though I believe fully they would do like that Octomom did and freeze all of them and keep implanting time after time.

[infooverload]

As someone mentioned up thread the problem could be multi faceted and involve the two of them. I don't see why they couldn't go to the doctor to make sure they can concieve, wouldn't it be viewed similar to having a physical in a way. Just making sure you're staying healthy or taking steps to be healthier. I will say I do respect the family for not turning it into a storyline. I am wondering if now since she has completed her degree if she has a nagging sense of wanting to use her degree versus being a nanny. I know she enjoys kids, but maybe there is a part of her wanting to do something different.