Michael and Brandon Keilen

[Nikedagain?]

1 hour ago, NewSeasonOfLife said:

I did notice that no one on the show has asked Michael about having kids, at least since the wedding. In comparison Alyssa has been asked twice this season alone when they're having their next one, and with the Duggars' show it was discussed in literally every J&A episode until Anna found out she was pregnant. The fact they're staying so far away from it makes me think that 1) there's a problem not being made public, and/or 2) Brandon and/or Michael have somehow made the subject off-limits. 

This. I have often wondered if maybe the sex=reproduction discussion is just too racy for them, especially Brandon. He seems so awkward and conservative, even in comparison to the other uber fundies.

My late (ex) mother in law was a glorious southern belle. There was never discussion of such things around her. If she heard someone say the word "pregnant" she corrected them (in a whisper..) to "expecting". 

[Granwych]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 2:01 AM, Purrl said:

especially since that's been a huge Duggar thing for quite a while now. Have any of the Bates talked about the option of adoption?

Sweet Jesus, I hope no Duggar or Bates ever adopts.

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 0:29 PM, princessmahina said:

Ugh. I had the same issue with spermicide.

Yup, both Grampwych and I had the same experience.  Yuck!

[Dandruff]

I think Michael, and probably Brandon, would be a lot happier with a bunch of kids and no media in their lives.  Both seem quiet and fundie to the hilt.  They probably do have a lot of people asking, or at least obviously wondering, about their fertility, and I imagine it's stressful.  And I'd bet a lot of the people wondering are popping out kid after kid while Michael and Brandon look on.

[VelociRapture]

55 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I think Michael, and probably Brandon, would be a lot happier with a bunch of kids and no media in their lives.  Both seem quiet and fundie to the hilt.  They probably do have a lot of people asking, or at least obviously wondering, about their fertility, and I imagine it's stressful.  And I'd bet a lot of the people wondering are popping out kid after kid while Michael and Brandon look on.

If the questions on social media are any indication, then yes. They likely get a ton of them. The fact that they don't discuss it publicly should serve as a hint that they don't want questions, but apparently their fans need it spelled out as bluntly as possible. 

[backyard sylph]

56 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I think Michael, and probably Brandon, would be a lot happier with a bunch of kids and no media in their lives.  Both seem quiet and fundie to the hilt.  They probably do have a lot of people asking, or at least obviously wondering, about their fertility, and I imagine it's stressful.  And I'd bet a lot of the people wondering are popping out kid after kid while Michael and Brandon look on.

Didn't we learn there was a high possibility some of the other girls would have the same trouble as Erin? Maybe things are actually quite difficult for her, and the family and show producers are choosing mysteriously to be tasteful about it.

[CorruptionInc.]

10 hours ago, BeaSnarky said:

  I still have people who will respond "Well, you know there's always adoption."  

 

 

I get that too. People are so obnoxious sometimes.

I have accepted life with two four - legged children and possibly a third later on. 

I'm sorry to hear about you and your husband. Hugs all round.

[elliha]

"There is always adoption" is also such a stupid thing to say. Adoption is not easy and something to consider carefully. Even if you are lucky to adopt an infant it is still a child who will carry the trauma of being separated from their parents and it is not the same as parenting a child you have given birth to. It might be absolutely lovely to be an adoptive parent but you should not assume it is the thing for everyone or that it is exactly the same. I have a friend who was adopted and I am sad to say her mother was not a suitable parent to take care of an adopted child (her father was though which probably helped her sanity). She couldn't handle when my friend was acting up to test their bond and punished her by putting her in a crib for hours (my friend was 3 and remembers this and later she found out it didn't stop until her father forced her mother to deal with her and not just leave her there but it had then been going on for several months when he was at work).

[Melissa1977]

@elliha the fantasy of the sweet adoption has been a big deal in my country and for years internacional adoption has been shown as a great way to become parents. Nowadays, when you want to adopt, even internationally, there's  a mandatory course where they try to discourage you to be sure that only the people really really convinced will finally adopt. It sounds hard, but the consequences of irresponsable adoption are worse both for kids and for parents. 

I know a bunch of families with adopted kids. All the kids are fine, but most of them are harder to raise than biological children (except 2 who were adopted as little babies) because their traumas but also because the parents have to built the bonding, it's not like being pregnant and having all the hormones helping you to bond. And it's easier to bond with a baby than to a 4 year old.

Adopting is a diferent way to make a family. It can be great, with the same happiness and attachment than biological families, but it has a very different beginning and adoption is harder.

[elliha]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@elliha the fantasy of the sweet adoption has been a big deal in my country and for years internacional adoption has been shown as a great way to become parents. Nowadays, when you want to adopt, even internationally, there's  a mandatory course where they try to discourage you to be sure that only the people really really convinced will finally adopt. It sounds hard, but the consequences of irresponsable adoption are worse both for kids and for parents. 

I know a bunch of families with adopted kids. All the kids are fine, but most of them are harder to raise than biological children (except 2 who were adopted as little babies) because their traumas but also because the parents have to built the bonding, it's not like being pregnant and having all the hormones helping you to bond. And it's easier to bond with a baby than to a 4 year old.

Adopting is a diferent way to make a family. It can be great, with the same happiness and attachment than biological families, but it has a very different beginning and adoption is harder.

We have courses before adoption too, I think both for international and national adoption, but most people have never looked into the actual demands for adoption and think it is easy and "all you need is love". I would have loved to have had a child through adoption as well as my two biological children but for us it is purely a money issue. Most adoptions in Sweden are international and they cost too much money for us to afford it. For domestic adoption there is no official queue and only a handful children a year are adopted that way so there is really no hope. Fostering kids would be a possibility but I feel that is not something I want to do until my own children are at least 10 so that would be for the future. We would also have to have a bigger house to be a foster home since we cannot offer a room of their own for a kid and often foster kids are older and would need that. 

[BeaSnarky]

18 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm really sorry. People can be such assholes about this type of stuff. 

And personally, I'm glad you don't stay polite anymore. It's no one else's business, it's intrusive, it's rude, and it can unintentionally cause a massive amount of emotional pain. Good for you for putting them in their place!

(And I hope you're doing better medically now. )

4 years NED as of yesterday- remission 3.5 years and counting.    Thanks so much!

4 hours ago, elliha said:

"There is always adoption" is also such a stupid thing to say. Adoption is not easy and something to consider carefully. Even if you are lucky to adopt an infant it is still a child who will carry the trauma of being separated from their parents and it is not the same as parenting a child you have given birth to. It might be absolutely lovely to be an adoptive parent but you should not assume it is the thing for everyone or that it is exactly the same. I have a friend who was adopted and I am sad to say her mother was not a suitable parent to take care of an adopted child (her father was though which probably helped her sanity). She couldn't handle when my friend was acting up to test their bond and punished her by putting her in a crib for hours (my friend was 3 and remembers this and later she found out it didn't stop until her father forced her mother to deal with her and not just leave her there but it had then been going on for several months when he was at work).

No one in their right mind would let us adopt a child - and not because we wouldn't be AMAZING parents (just ask our furbabies, and my husband's grown step-daughters from his previous relationship), but because I'm over 40; have had stage 3 cancer and a previous heart attack; and my husband is nearly 60.  We could foster to adopt here, but at this point, I think we are quite set with just the furkids.  There are a lot of hurdles we just couldn't overcome, physically, mentally, physically and financially.

I'm sorry about your friend.  

I am glad that Micheal and Brandon are keeping their family planning OFF of national TV.  It's an emotional roller coaster even when you have no fertility issues.

[alba]

I also feel bad for her. I'm nowhere near fundie yet I got questions about getting pregnant and having babies about 5 seconds after I said "I do." :-/

I've been saying since middle school that I don't want kids, and the evening before my wedding my MIL started talking to my mum about how Mr Alba and I would make great parents (Mr Alba would, but I have the patience of a gnat and a hair trigger temper. I'd be a horrible mother and I know it). She said this KNOWING I have very, very good reasons for not wanting to be a mother, even moreso than when I was 12.

[elliha]

6 hours ago, BeaSnarky said:

4 years NED as of yesterday- remission 3.5 years and counting.    Thanks so much!

No one in their right mind would let us adopt a child - and not because we wouldn't be AMAZING parents (just ask our furbabies, and my husband's grown step-daughters from his previous relationship), but because I'm over 40; have had stage 3 cancer and a previous heart attack; and my husband is nearly 60.  We could foster to adopt here, but at this point, I think we are quite set with just the furkids.  There are a lot of hurdles we just couldn't overcome, physically, mentally, physically and financially.

I'm sorry about your friend.  

I am glad that Micheal and Brandon are keeping their family planning OFF of national TV.  It's an emotional roller coaster even when you have no fertility issues.

I think that the fact that you see that adoption is not for you in your situation is a great testament that you would in fact be great parents. 

[BeaSnarky]

1 minute ago, elliha said:

I think that the fact that you see that adoption is not for you in your situation is a great testament that you would in fact be great parents. 

Thank you!  I would like to think I would have "rocked" that Mom role.  My step-grands say I'm an awesome Grammies though, so that helps a little with the sting.  :-)

[season of life]

People should adopt because their heart is in it, not because it's their second best option. If a couple wants a biological child, why should anyone blame them? It's different for everyone. 

[Percy]

15 hours ago, alba said:

 

I've been saying since middle school that I don't want kids, and the evening before my wedding my MIL started talking to my mum about how Mr Alba and I would make great parents (Mr Alba would, but I have the patience of a gnat and a hair trigger temper. I'd be a horrible mother and I know it). She said this KNOWING I have very, very good reasons for not wanting to be a mother, even moreso than when I was 12.

 

We said no children when we first got married.  We were both very headstrong and had a volatile relationship.  Things settled as we moved into our 30's and we decided to go ahead and have children.  That worked for us.

Not everyone is going to want children.. You need to do what is best for you as a couple, not what others want you to do.

[alba]

3 hours ago, Percy said:

We said no children when we first got married.  We were both very headstrong and had a volatile relationship.  Things settled as we moved into our 30's and we decided to go ahead and have children.  That worked for us.

Not everyone is going to want children.. You need to do what is best for you as a couple, not what others want you to do.

I'm glad things worked out for you two

Don't worry, there's no risk of us having kids to please MIL. I mean, part of the reason I think I'd be a terrible mother is I just don't want kids, and I firmly believe that no one should deliberately conceive - or conceive 'by God's will' - unless they WANT to be a parent (obviously, sometimes unexpected pregnancies happen, and some people come out as really fantastic parents, but I suspect those parents tend to be people who wanted to have children 'someday', as opposed to people like me who are actively against the thought of being parents).

Honestly, MIL means well. She just doesn't want us to miss out on something that's brought her life joy.

[nokidsmom]

On 8/22/2016 at 7:08 PM, VelociRapture said:

If the questions on social media are any indication, then yes. They likely get a ton of them. The fact that they don't discuss it publicly should serve as a hint that they don't want questions, but apparently their fans need it spelled out as bluntly as possible. 

Both Michael and Brandon strike me as being very private individuals and don't want every detail in their life being put out for social consumption.   I would think that after living with parents who exploited their children for $$ on reality TV, Michael is enjoying finally having some privacy and a husband who enjoys the same so she has some backup.    Unlike living in her parent's home where she had no say.

She's loving her life, I suspect, just as her sister Alyssa.  Both of them found freedom when they got married.  I never got the feeling that either was particularly happy with living in their parent's home and both moved away when they got married.  Erin could have done same but seems to have prevailed in staying close to her parents.  Getting married as means of escape doesn't always work, but in their world it's the only approved way and it seems to be working for them.

[imokit]

Erin's always a bit more outgoing then Alyssa & Michael and I think did better in a large family then them.

Plus the original intention was to stay nearby while while she finished Crown, then they were going to move away.  When she started having miscarriages, I suspect they realised how much she needed family support through it and got settled nearby.  Despite staying close, Erin is still making small changes - she still works (I know its fundy approved, but it brings money in), she & Chad have spoken about how they're giving their kid vegetables (and she's spoken about her discovery of broccoli), she's also influencing the little kids to do things they wouldn't do at home - yes making them eat vegetables is a tiny change, but its still a change.

Unlike Josh & Jessa, all of the Bates kids even the ones who stay close seem to have made their own distinct family units.

 

Clarification - I am in no way saying they've left the cult, just that Chad & Zach are not slavishly beholden to the whims of Gill in the same way that Josh & Ben are to JB's.

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, imokit said:

Erin's always a bit more outgoing then Alyssa & Michael and I think did better in a large family then them.

Plus the original intention was to stay nearby while while she finished Crown, then they were going to move away.  When she started having miscarriages, I suspect they realised how much she needed family support through it and got settled nearby.  Despite staying close, Erin is still making small changes - she still works (I know its fundy approved, but it brings money in), she & Chad have spoken about how they're giving their kid vegetables (and she's spoken about her discovery of broccoli), she's also influencing the little kids to do things they wouldn't do at home - yes making them eat vegetables is a tiny change, but its still a change.

Unlike Josh & Jessa, all of the Bates kids even the ones who stay close seem to have made their own distinct family units.

 

Clarification - I am in no way saying they've left the cult, just that Chad & Zach are not slavishly beholden to the whims of Gill in the same way that Josh & Ben are to JB's.

I'm not a fan of this family, but I think the best decision Cherin has made was staying in Tennessee throughout their miscarriages. Erin is obviously very close to her family and having them close by to offer support was likely a massive help for both of them. Plus, she was able to stick with the same Doctor throughout all of her pregnancies - that probably brought them a level of comfort as well.

As for differences between the families - it wouldn't surprise me if the roots of many of those differences could be found in Josh's sexual assaults on the five girls. It's easier to branch out and form your own family unit when you aren't as weary of outsider interference (whether that interference was warranted, which it absolutely was, or not.) In a really sick way, I think Boob honestly believes he's keeping his family safe by keeping firm control over things - and his kids may be scared enough by that situation that they believe he has their best interests at heart. If the Bates had faced a situation like that then Gil may have reacted in the same way.

[imokit]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

In a really sick way, I think Boob honestly believes he's keeping his family safe by keeping firm control over things - and his kids may be scared enough by that situation that they believe he has their best interests at heart. If the Bates had faced a situation like that then Gil may have reacted in the same way.

We know he almost certainly would have - same wisdom books, giving blame to 4 year olds for not crying out, and talking about how changing diapers and tiny girls running around naked at bath time contributed to sexual molestation.

Plus - he knows about the allegations and Gothard, is part of the board and almost certainly involved in the cover up.

[jacduggar]

10 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm not a fan of this family, but I think the best decision Cherin has made was staying in Tennessee throughout their miscarriages. Erin is obviously very close to her family and having them close by to offer support was likely a massive help for both of them. Plus, she was able to stick with the same Doctor throughout all of her pregnancies - that probably brought them a level of comfort as well.

As for differences between the families - it wouldn't surprise me if the roots of many of those differences could be found in Josh's sexual assaults on the five girls. It's easier to branch out and form your own family unit when you aren't as weary of outsider interference (whether that interference was warranted, which it absolutely was, or not.) In a really sick way, I think Boob honestly believes he's keeping his family safe by keeping firm control over things - and his kids may be scared enough by that situation that they believe he has their best interests at heart. If the Bates had faced a situation like that then Gil may have reacted in the same way.

I think JB has more of a controlling personality in general. I'm sure Josh's molestations just sent it into overdrive (hence kids living very close and working for daddy Duggar). I really think that Kelly and Gil let their kids have more room for their own 'Godly' interests, whereas JB and Michelle wanted their kids to do this, this, and this-no fuss, no fun, no outside interests. 

 

I I have no doubt Gil would keep his kids right in his pocket if they went through the same sh*t the Duggars covered up. Absolutely. But I also think KJ and Gil would have given their kids more room to explore their personal interests (within the Gothard parameters, of course). 

[Coconut Flan]

JB seems to think the only Godly role of the male is some form of ministry or evangelizing.  Gil appears to accept a wider range of employment. 

[iweartanktops]

I really appreciate the comments about adoption. When people hear that I may not be able to conceive (after asking lots of intrusive questions), they often mention adoption. Mr. Tank Tops and I have decided that adoption is not likely for us. Whenever I'm faced with the "there's always adoption," comments, I feel like a bad person for not wanting to go that route. To be fair, people may just not know what to say, but that's a good reason not to ask so many questions about the subject! 

[kjmackin]

On August 23, 2016 at 6:52 AM, alba said:

 

I've been saying since middle school that I don't want kids, and the evening before my wedding my MIL started talking to my mum about how Mr Alba and I would make great parents (Mr Alba would, but I have the patience of a gnat and a hair trigger temper. I'd be a horrible mother and I know it). She said this KNOWING I have very, very good reasons for not wanting to be a mother, even moreso than when I was 12.

 

I was kinda the same I knew around 10 I didn't want kids. Had some change of mind for a bit due to science but those aren't good reasons to have kids and I would be miserable if I have to deal with anyone below age 16 on regular bases. My husband came to the conclusion of being childfree on his own and after being married for 2 years he got fixed so we didn't have to worry about any Opps. 

When we announced it to our families it went over good and very badly. My parents are comfortable with the concept  that their  only grand babies are going to be from the animal kingdom. My mother's brothers and several family friends are childfree and those who had children only had onlys.  While my husband's family it went horribly. My MIL spent a month trying to talk him out of getting fixed until he told her it wasn't going to change his mind. While my FIL refuses to have contact with us and pretty refers to my husband as a eunuch when my husband comes up in conversation with his siblings. Also my in laws don't have anyone that run in their circles that didn't go on to reproduce.

 

If you & your husband ever looking for a great childfree community I recommend the one on Reddit. Occasionally it can get a little over the top there but often there is good advice, a place to vent, humor, and information rather on the statistics of regrets or finding doctors who are open minded.

 

Should mention me and my hubby are 26 & 27. 

[alba]

36 minutes ago, kjmackin said:

I was kinda the same I knew around 10 I didn't want kids. Had some change of mind for a bit due to science but those aren't good reasons to have kids and I would be miserable if I have to deal with anyone below age 16 on regular bases. My husband came to the conclusion of being childfree on his own and after being married for 2 years he got fixed so we didn't have to worry about any Opps. 

When we announced it to our families it went over good and very badly. My parents are comfortable with the concept  that their  only grand babies are going to be from the animal kingdom. My mother's brothers and several family friends are childfree and those who had children only had onlys.  While my husband's family it went horribly. My MIL spent a month trying to talk him out of getting fixed until he told her it wasn't going to change his mind. While my FIL refuses to have contact with us and pretty refers to my husband as a eunuch when my husband comes up in conversation with his siblings. Also my in laws don't have anyone that run in their circles that didn't go on to reproduce.

 

If you & your husband ever looking for a great childfree community I recommend the one on Reddit. Occasionally it can get a little over the top there but often there is good advice, a place to vent, humor, and information rather on the statistics of regrets or finding doctors who are open minded.

 

Should mention me and my hubby are 26 & 27. 

Ugh, I'm sorry your husband's family aren't more understanding *hugs*

My parents are generally fine; they know we're adults (26 and 28) and, while my mum still thinks I might be missing out on something precious, she respects me enough to know it's my choice. FIL is fine with it, too. In fairness to MIL, she has three kids and it's starting to look like she won't have any grandchildren, so I can understand her disappointment, but not enough to get knocked up XD

Thanks for the suggestion