Paroled from Jesus jail: Josh comes home - part 14

[nst]

1 minute ago, Jana814 said:

I think some of the older Duggars are angry with Josh. What he did was wrong. The younger kids may not understand why they are no longer on TV because of Josh. 

I hope from jackson on down - no one is aware of the cameras - but if you think  about it  - they are still being filmed 

so that theory is shot to hell

[ClaraOswin]

I doubt any of the girls spent any time with Josh anyway so I doubt much has changed there. But I could see John not wanting to hang out with him anymore.

Remember at Anna's recent gender reveal, JB and Michelle gave them a "coupon" for a marriage retreat? I wonder if they are going to use that now.

A few years ago, JB and Michelle went to Puerto Rico to meet with Chris and Anna Hogan (relationship coaches or some stupid shit like that.) I wouldn't be surprised if Anna and Josh did something similar. I also wonder if it will be mentioned on the show - showing Anna pack and talking about where she's going.

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder if the younger kids get paid for their brief appearances, or if any monies go into the JB and M account to be distributed when they reach their majority. Not likely.

[lascuba]

I need someone familiar with fundie culture to explain the likely family dynamics with regards to cheating, because the idea that the Duggars are that devastated over Josh cheating on Anna is so foreign to me that it just does not compute. Realistically, I know the public nature of it is the real reason for the show of tears we're getting, but setting that part aside...are the Duggars' claims of extreme hurt and loss of trust over Josh cheating on Anna likely to be honest? I come from a culture where--and I say this without a hint of exaggeration--there is zero expectation of male fidelity, so usually the most extreme reaction to one's brother cheating on his wife would be, "Ugh, you're such a jerk, " and that's only if he like, cheated with her friend or something.

[anotherone]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

 so usually the most extreme reaction to one's brother cheating on his wife would be, "Ugh, you're such a jerk, " and that's only if he like, cheated with her friend or something.

Whether fidelity is expected or not, that seems like the normal reaction to a sibling cheating.  It's not personal to me, it's only personal to my brother's wife.  I doubt I would ever cry about it.

36 minutes ago, Drala said:

@anotherone I don't know if I agree with your reasoning.  The adult Duggars wouldn't be shunning/ignoring Josh because he has a history of molesting or cheating on his wife or looking at pornography.  They'd be shunning him because he caused them a lot of embarrassment and the 19KAC show and they don't know how to communicate their anger in a straight-forward fashion.  

Good point, Drala

[ClaraOswin]

I think it's because their whole family "brand" was disrupted (not sure if that's the right word) by Josh's infidelities. His job in DC was basically to promote "family values" or some such garbage. So I am guessing his sins are a reflection on them. 

I think it's more to do with their warped family culture.

If one of my siblings cheated on their spouse, I would be disappointed with them. But it certainly wouldn't effect my life.

[Jana814]

26 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I wonder if the younger kids get paid for their brief appearances, or if any monies go into the JB and M account to be distributed when they reach their majority. Not likely.

I don't think they get paid since they are under 18 but I could be wrong. 

[djmd]

4 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I don't think they get paid since they are under 18 but I could be wrong. 

Yeah the minors can't enter into a contract so I am 99% sure it all funneled through JB.

Hell, I would even bet that the older kids were flat out employees of DimBoob LLC and didn't get paid directly for 19KAC.

I would imagine, though, that the arrangement for Counting On is completely different. I honestly don't think Boob has control over it.

 

I could be wrong on all this. Grain of salt. YMMV. YOLO.

[SilverBeach]

On 3/16/2016 at 5:30 PM, vienna said:

Anna has to break down in the long run. It is unbearable what she is asking from herselve (or believes that god is asking from her), this has to end in a breakdown or even worse. I feel really sorry for her. Just unbearable.

No she doesn't. Anna has options (fundie escapee brother and sister). Anna likely feels good about remaining true to the wedding vows that she said she made to God then to Smuggar. What is likely unbearable is questioning ATI/IBLP. I feel for the M kids as not only do they have a douche father, their mother will continue to raise them in hate and intolerance.

[season of life]

19 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I need someone familiar with fundie culture to explain the likely family dynamics with regards to cheating, because the idea that the Duggars are that devastated over Josh cheating on Anna is so foreign to me that it just does not compute. Realistically, I know the public nature of it is the real reason for the show of tears we're getting, but setting that part aside...are the Duggars' claims of extreme hurt and loss of trust over Josh cheating on Anna likely to be honest? I come from a culture where--and I say this without a hint of exaggeration--there is zero expectation of male fidelity, so usually the most extreme reaction to one's brother cheating on his wife would be, "Ugh, you're such a jerk, " and that's only if he like, cheated with her friend or something.

I would say yes, they are THAT upset, and for many different reasons. He cost them their television show, which was a good source of income. When those three Jill and Jessa specials came out, the girls said they were upset because Josh knew he was cheating on the down low but let them defend him on national TV. The Duggar family probably thought the molestation scandal was the end of it, until Josh revealed he was fucking shit up yet again. 

Anna said it best. She said how the whole time they were espousing Christian values and calling themselves Christians, her husband was lying to everyone and being generally two-faced.

[justmy2cents]

3 hours ago, djmd said:

Yeah the minors can't enter into a contract so I am 99% sure it all funneled through JB.

Hell, I would even bet that the older kids were flat out employees of DimBoob LLC and didn't get paid directly for 19KAC.

I would imagine, though, that the arrangement for Counting On is completely different. I honestly don't think Boob has control over it.

 

I could be wrong on all this. Grain of salt. YMMV. YOLO.

Maybe only the older kids are getting paid and JB&M signed waivers allowing their image and those of the younger kids to appear without being paid.  Kind of like guests at their wedding had to sign waivers.  Then again I can't imagine JB agreeing to not get anything.

[OnceUponATime]

4 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

None of them are going to "shun" Josh because that wouldn't be very "Godly" of them to do so.

The family does seem to like picking which Bible verses they use. I think they could quite easily utilize 1 Corinthians 5:11 as a basis for justifying the 'shunning' of Josh.

Quote

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

 

[QuiverDance]

On 3/19/2016 at 8:33 PM, Kittikatz said:

Given the value, or lack thereof, placed on women in this culture, the ridiculously fast remarriage isn't too surprising. I know when my mother was at death's door after giving birth to my brother (I was six), I was told that my Mum would probably die, and that it wasnt reasonable to expect my father to take care of me by himself. My grandmother even took me to an actual 'children's home' aka an orphanage to look around and told me a story of a little girl who had been made an inmate after her mother died. In the story, her father remarried and then came with her 'new mummy' to the home and fetched her out. Implication being that was what would happen to me. It was pretty frightening. Thankfully, my mother survived (unfortunately, my grandmother remained a heinous b*tch) and I wasn't sent away. All I can say is that my heart is breaking for those poor kids. It has to be horrible to loose a parent, and then to acquire a step parent plus step sibs so quickly after. They would hardly have time to process it all...

You know... My ex got his third wife pregnant while we were separated and in the process of divorcing.  They were living together before the divorce was final and married (his 3rd, her 2nd, with her first only lasting 18 months) within a few months of the divorce being final.  I worried about my kids through all of this, but they love their half sibling and seem to be happy with the arranggement.  A lot of trauma for kids comes from fear.  We spun this pretty well, I think, considering the utter morass of shit my ex created.  As long as kids feel secure, IMO, they adjust really well.  I know mine were troopers.

[season of life]

Speaking of kids, I wonder if the M children are holding up well. If Anna took precautions and tried to downplay the severity of the situation, she could have convinced them Daddy was on a long trip somewhere for work. I hope none of the M kids saw their mother in pain and I hope for their sake, Josh pretends to be excited to see them. I doubt that his first thoughts, after months of being stuck in Jesus jail, are going to be about the little ones.

[Mela99]

I don't remember seeing a discussion before, but I really wonder what the M-kids and the Howlers were told about Smugs and why he was gone and what he was doing. Kids aren't stupid, they know when something is wrong...

[Bad Wolf]

Probably said something like he was naughty and made Jesus sad, so he's gone to the grown up prayer closet until he's right with Jesus again.

[Jana814]

19 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I don't remember seeing a discussion before, but I really wonder what the M-kids and the Howlers were told about Smugs and why he was gone and what he was doing. Kids aren't stupid, they know when something is wrong...

I wonder that also. I'm sure the M kids wondered where dad was.  I'm also wonder how they were when they had to get out if the DC area so fast. 

[twinmama]

On 3/15/2016 at 5:39 PM, Furbabies said:

Pickles made The Inquistor again.

She got a "like" on one of her comments concerning not trusting Josh from the Holt family. I'm posting the link, but mods, please take it down if it is not appropriate.

  Reveal hidden contents

http://www.inquisitr.com/2891269/duggar-friends-turning-on-the-family-holt-family-seemingly-agrees-that-josh-duggar-is-a-phony-needs-accountability-nanny/

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

lol At the idea Josh needs an "accountability nanny." Just picturing poor Anna there with 4 or more children and someone seeing the nanny and Anna having to say "No, he isn't the children's nanny. He's my husband's accountability nanny." LMAO.

[Kittikatz]

57 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

You know... My ex got his third wife pregnant while we were separated and in the process of divorcing.  They were living together before the divorce was final and married (his 3rd, her 2nd, with her first only lasting 18 months) within a few months of the divorce being final.  I worried about my kids through all of this, but they love their half sibling and seem to be happy with the arranggement.  A lot of trauma for kids comes from fear.  We spun this pretty well, I think, considering the utter morass of shit my ex created.  As long as kids feel secure, IMO, they adjust really well.  I know mine were troopers.

Kids are troopers, and it sounds like you and your ex did a good job handling a tricky situation. That said, I think there is a huge difference between the trauma of a parent dying and surviving parent getting remarried at the speed of light and a fast remarriage/cohabitation after a divorce. The divorce can be explained and fears addressed, and most of the time, it doesn't mean that the departing parent is lost to the child. Death is terrifying, and difficult to spin or explain, and the dead parent is no longer going to be a real part of that child's life. Adding a step parent to the latter scenario has the potential to be a lot harder on the children..

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, season of life said:

I would say yes, they are THAT upset, and for many different reasons. He cost them their television show, which was a good source of income. When those three Jill and Jessa specials came out, the girls said they were upset because Josh knew he was cheating on the down low but let them defend him on national TV. The Duggar family probably thought the molestation scandal was the end of it, until Josh revealed he was fucking shit up yet again. 

Anna said it best. She said how the whole time they were espousing Christian values and calling themselves Christians, her husband was lying to everyone and being generally two-faced.

I think they are angry at him because he made them look bad.  He brought shame on himself and on his family.  The Sunday before AM came out, Jim Bob was praising Josh in church, trying to emphasize what a good son he was, how Josh had been completely changed by Jesus after the molestations.  And all the while they were being fooled by him.

That being said, I don't for one moment believe that they are "shunning" him.  I think that is just a tabloid story, like the story about Anna wanting a divorce.  

I do believe that they are waiting until the interest in his "release" dies down a little before he starts venturing around town to do things.  And I am sure that although they have "forgiven" him, they are not making an effort to make him feel "redeemed," much less "trusted."  To be fair, if I had a relative that behaved the way Josh has, I wouldn't be in a hurry to welcome him to my trust and affection.  

 

 

[twinmama]

7 hours ago, Drala said:

Okay.  "Shun" is a strong word.  Try "ignore".    Are the Duggars too Godly to pointedly ignore Josh, e.g., not go out of their way to spend time with him?

I can easily see them doing a lesser version of shunning. Basically they're still super pissed at him and don't want to talk to him. If he doesn't live WITH them, it's pretty easy to just not invite him over.

11 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

The Sunday before AM came out, Jim Bob was praising Josh in church, trying to emphasize what a good son he was, how Josh had been completely changed by Jesus after the molestations.  And all the while they were being fooled by him.

Ohhhh I know it makes me super shitty, but I LOVE how slapped in the face by the cheating scandal JB and M were. I generally don't blame parents for their adult children's behavior, but man the shit they spout about how godly and wonderful they have raised their kids to be... The molestation stuff coming out, I did not feel this way about. But this time, suck it JB&M!

[19 cats and counting]

On 3/11/2016 at 0:55 PM, anjulibai said:

Definitely by this fall. That's how it usually goes with Anna anyways, but I imagine they will try to have more sex as a way of "helping" Josh. Plus, now that she's near the TTH, I imagine Anna will get more help with the kids from her poor unmarried sisters-in-law. JB and Michelle will likely want to encourage Josh and Anna to go out on dates fairly regularly as a means of keeping Josh in line. 

Knowing JB, they'll take Josh and Anna on a double date to the mini golf course.....

[Bad Wolf]

21 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Knowing JB, they'll take Josh and Anna on a double date to the mini golf course.....

Well, that just turned my stomach. 

[imokit]

Since we're talking about golf gate - 

Sorry...but you can't talk about golf gate without the visual 

[QuiverDance]

2 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

Kids are troopers, and it sounds like you and your ex did a good job handling a tricky situation. That said, I think there is a huge difference between the trauma of a parent dying and surviving parent getting remarried at the speed of light and a fast remarriage/cohabitation after a divorce. The divorce can be explained and fears addressed, and most of the time, it doesn't mean that the departing parent is lost to the child. Death is terrifying, and difficult to spin or explain, and the dead parent is no longer going to be a real part of that child's life. Adding a step parent to the latter scenario has the potential to be a lot harder on the children..

I agree that death of a parent is MUCH harder than a divorce, and of course, you're right.  It is impossible to fill the void the deceased parent left.  My point was just that the aftermath can be handled in a way that allays the child's enevitable fears instead of making them worse, like the example of "oh hey, just so you know, if your mom dies, you're going to end up in an orphanage."