Bates Family Part 7

[xlurker]

On 1/10/2016 at 9:47 AM, Gimme a Free RV said:

Back to the comment about leaving NY to live in TN:

As I sit here sipping my coffee, in my quiet neighborhood, looking at the woods in back of my house, where deer occasionally peek out and delight me with their beauty, I can tell you, TN is just a horrible place to live.  Especially the area where the Bates are.  Yes, the fresh air and the lakes and mountains (which, as we all know, NY state has absolutely none of) and the lovely scenery.  It's just awful.  However, for those who hate the rural life, fret not!  East TN is home to drug abuse (meth labs and pain killer fraud, of note), traffic jams and abundant shopping and a major university (Knoxville), and practically everything  a place like NYC has to offer, including the diversity, just in smaller doses with a smaller population.

Yeah, it's just horrid living in TN, especially in the Appalachian Mountains, near the dreadfully dull Smokies.

Upstate NY has tons of fresh air, the Adirondack Mountains, hundreds of lakes both big and small.  I have seen all kinds of wild life--bears, deer, bob cats etc...I know you were prob referring to the "city" but there is so much more to NY! SHHHH, we are trying to keep it quiet though  That being said, I do believe her family lives on Long Island?  

 

[nickelodeon]

Plus a big university like UTK might not teach Non-Western Music Theory solely in the context of learning how to evangelize to uncivilized savages through "indigenous music."

[Gimme a Free RV]

@xlurker, yeah, I was being sarcastic because even though I haven't visited upstate NY, I have seen pictures and have heard wonderful things about the beauty of the flora and fauna there.  

[19 cats and counting]

23 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I'm glad Crown College seemed to work for Erin, but it would be foolish to act like her parents gave her a real choice. No way Gil and Kelly wouldn't have heaped huge amounts of guilt on Erin if she had even expressed slight interest in going to a university. 

Even if she did have a real choice, she does not seem like the type that would have taken it.  Who knows if she even formally auditioned for the scholarship or if someone heard her play and recommended it?   

Of the older Bates kids, I can only see Alyssa (who IIRC dropped out of Crown as soon as it was clear she didn't need it for her MRS degree) or maybe Tori (who seems happy at Crown) taking such an opportunity.  Lawson maybe for the athletic opportunities, but he never struck me as someone interested in academics.  At least Gil and Kelly give their daughters an opportunity to attend Crown and encourage taking a few classes even if a degree is not in her future (Alyssa).   And I believe Michael has secular college credits (community college?) under her belt and is finishing her degree online (could explain the lack of a baby bump).

As much as we all want these fundie kids to escape, it's VERY difficult to go against everything you were raised to believe.  Even being raised in a secular household, I did not have the courage to go against my mother's wishes for where I attended college (or even look at schools I was interested in).  I decided colleges based on what would make her happy, not make me happy. (Yes this is probably my biggest regret in life).  

Very few people have the courage to do something so abrupt at once.  Jinger Duggar is not going to pack up her bags and camera and take the next flight to New York City (she's someone who I'd like to see at Crown studying photography).  Karen Shupe won't be attending any frat parties this weekend (I'd applaud if she even was able to go for a walk around the block without her control freak mom).  

12 minutes ago, xlurker said:

Upstate NY has tons of fresh air, the Adirondack Mountains, hundreds of lakes both big and small.  I have seen all kinds of wild life--bears, deer, bob cats etc...I know you were prob referring to the "city" but there is so much more to NY! SHHHH, we are trying to keep it quiet though  That being said, I do believe her family lives on Long Island?  

 

I LOVE upstate NY.  I'm from what Long Island calls upstate but the rest of the state does not.   If I were to move back to NY, I would go upstate.  

[xlurker]

@19 cats and counting--yeah--Westchester county doesn't qualify as upstate! LOL  Have to be North of Albany!  Winters are a killer though!

[elliha]

I chose my university much because I liked the town it was in. I studied teaching and as long as you graduate you can get a job as a teacher but of course for your own sake a good teaching program is better. I narrowed it down to 5 universities where I thought the teaching program was good, 3 were in bigger cities where it is hard to get a place to live so I applied to two universities in smallish towns. I favored one of these towns but I knew I would be OK in the other one too but I got into the program I wanted and because of that I still live in that town. 

[Ofglen]

22 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Plus a big university like UTK might not teach Non-Western Music Theory solely in the context of learning how to evangelize to uncivilized savages through "indigenous music."

omg plz elaborate i want details crown is so gross

(but tbh, I certainly got some racist, faux, vague "non-western" music theory at my fairly liberal school, in an otherwise strong MT (and music history) department, and I'd be shocked if it wasn't a problem at all conservatories, including UT)

[19 cats and counting]

33 minutes ago, xlurker said:

@19 cats and counting--yeah--Westchester county doesn't qualify as upstate! LOL  Have to be North of Albany!  Winters are a killer though!

The official dividing line between upstate and downstate (well at least in my HS government class) is Poughkeepsie.  (As of the 90s) half the population lived north of there and half south.

I don't mind the winters.  

[missegeno]

I went to am expensive 4 year liberal arts school across the country from where I grew up (and now I'm in school in another country!). I have to say, my school for undergrad was the greatest privilege. It was one that was unimaginable growing up and one that I could not be more grateful for. I got an incredible education from amazing professors who I worked more closely with than I currently work with my dissertation advisor. I learned from professors who were there to teach and who put students first and research a distant second. There was no graduate program full of people grading our papers. Instead, we got detailed feedback direct from the professors. My school was a rarity, absolutely. But it was amazing and well worth my debt from there (I did also get a lot of grants, but loans were inevitable).

Now I'm in grad school elsewhere and everything is different. The undergrads here don't get a fraction of what I got as an undergrad, and everyone seems to prioritize publishing papers over anything else. Given a choice between community college transfer or spending my first two years where I am now, I would absolutely go with the community college option. It's amazing how much the individual school can matter, and matter differently based on your position.

[EmmieJ]

15 hours ago, sndral said:

<snip>Personally I couldn't wait to head as far away from home as possible for college, so I don't 'get' the more cautious/fearful types - but I don't think they only crop up in fundy land.

No, not just in fundie-land.  After I graduated high school, I didn't go straight to college.  Instead, I worked for a local insurance agent, then a small town attorney.  About two years after graduating, I decided to go to college.  I was somewhat of an introvert and felt intimidated by the idea of going to a larger college in a larger community, so my first year was spent at a state college in a small agricultural town in central California.  After that, I transferred to a larger university and completed my degree. 

[AnywhereButHere]

When I got married, I moved from Boston to the far east end of Long Island.  It took six years before I lost my mind and realized that, for me, beaches, trees and solitude were great in theory (and for vacations), but not to live in.  I need sidewalks and streetlights, lots of people, grocery stores (plural) that were under a two mile radius from my house...  All of the trees were making me claustrophobic. Now we're still on Long Island but just outside of Queens, and I feel like I can breathe again.

34 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

The official dividing line between upstate and downstate (well at least in my HS government class) is Poughkeepsie.  (As of the 90s) half the population lived north of there and half south.

I don't mind the winters.  

My husband considers anything not Long Island but outside of the city limits to be upstate.

[inabauers]

I'm currently going to a mid-sized university, partly because they gave me the most scholarship money, and partly because it is the best school in the state for my major. I couldn't afford out of state tuition either, and I had no interest in the big state schools here. Had I not gotten a scholarship, though, I definitely would have done the two-years of community college and then transferred. 

[sndral]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

 

You're making a lot of very negative assumptions about people who choose not to go to large universities far from home. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'frightened' to prefer a smaller university. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'cautious and fearful' to choose to stick close to home. Maybe you like it where you live and feel no need to move away. Maybe you get along really well with your family and want to keep that support system nearby. Maybe your local university has a great program that you prefer. Maybe money is tight and it's a much wiser financial decision to stay in town. Or hey, maybe your local university is literally the only place you could get accepted. Not everyone is privileged enough or wealthy enough to go and 'spread their wings' and 'find themselves' far from home at a huge university, and plenty of people just don't want to.

My apologies for my failure to communicate the point I was trying to contribute. Oops.

I did not intend to suggest that people who chose not to attend large Universities are less than those who do.  I suppose my discussion of a niece who - to outsiders - would have been a natural for a prestigious University but due to her personality preferred a different experience might seem like I was criticizing her choice, but that was not my intent. I used the choices made by my nieces (whom I am very proud of - both finished in 4 years) as illustrations that even children raised by liberal parents can end up choosing a University that doesn't make sense to outsiders. Thus, I'm not sure we can blame Gil and Kelly for depriving Erin of her chance to go to the big University. It may have been that she preferred to not go irrespective of her parent's wishes.

Erin strikes me as more timid, not that there is anything wrong w/ that, as I noted I have a more adventurous spirit (plus when it was time to go to college I was eager to escape a horrible home life w/ my mom & step dad) and if I had been offered a free ride to a major University away from home like Erin allegedly was I would have felt like I'd won the lotto. That's not meant to be a criticism of people who have different goals/realities/personalities or a claim that my approach is/was 'better' just people are different.

Now, fundy families may well tend to produce more timid/cautious offspring due to the indoctrination, Pearlizing, etc. - that's a whole 'nother can of worms. But Erin strikes me as not being much of a rebel, whatever the cause.   

[floridaotaku]

2 hours ago, FormerlyFundyLite said:

Here's one for Community Colleges! I went to Community College for several reasons: family had just adopted and I didn't want to show up on the doorstep during break and say "Hey, I'm your sister...let me in", it was cheaper, I hadn't settled on a major yet, etc. Ultimately, I did transfer to and graduate from State U, but I strongly believe that I got a better education from my CC profs than from my Uni profs. CC profs are there to teach, while Uni profs are often there to research, and they teach on the side. I love my University--good experience, best program in the state for my major (and one of the best in the country), and I love my CC too.

As a former CC professor, this warms my heart. There are many amazing profs who choose to work at CCs because they value the accessibility of the community model. 

[QuiverDance]

My father was a  professor at a small state college, retired, and went directly back to work two years later as a cc professor.  He loves what he does and says he's going to work until he can't any longer.  Something to be said for that.  

[nickelodeon]

@Ofglen I don't have any tea to spill other than what's on the course catalog page I linked. Incidentally, the course catalog says it's offered in the spring but it's not being taught at all this semester. I'm gunna bet that either the faculty at Clown is miserably understaffed, or the teacher is just abroad atm ministering to foreigners with their strange native music that lacks articulated theory!!

Likewise looking at the booklists for their other international ministry classes is crazy given that these kids are uncomfy and out of place on the streets of their own towns, let alone abroad. "Stepping Out and Fitting In Across the World," "Making Friends in a Multicultural World," "Building Relationships for Effective Ministry"... how about just "Stepping out and Fitting In," "Making Friends" and "Building Relationships" ANYWHERE?

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

I've got serious baby fever as of late. And looking at pics of these cute kids is NOT helping. I need to go hold a baby or something. 

[socalrules]

I grew up in Southern California. We have so many schools of every caliber in the area. Nearly all of my family that lived down here went to school here, except for two that went to great schools in Northern California. Only one of my friends went to school out of state and that was to Cornell, so completely understandable. I don't think it is rare to go to school close to home. If you already live in an area with wonderful schools and want to got to them, you should do it. You also have to take into account that many people want to go to schools in they area they already know, family may have gone there or they have rooted for the school team. Many have been familiar with the schools since they were kids. Here, until it was announced yesterday that the Rams were returning, college football teams (UCLA & USC) were considered the home teams. Many kids ended up going to one of those schools because of their love for the football teams. They fact that they are excellent schools didn't hurt. 

[maple802]

2 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

The official dividing line between upstate and downstate (well at least in my HS government class) is Poughkeepsie.  (As of the 90s) half the population lived north of there and half south.

I don't mind the winters.  

If it isn't north of Poughkeepsie (and truly, north of Albany) it's not Upstate. I went to undergrad in the North Country and law school in CNY.

[19 cats and counting]

25 minutes ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

I've got serious baby fever as of late. And looking at pics of these cute kids is NOT helping. I need to go hold a baby or something. 

 

So when is this one going to be wearing a Big Sister shirt?

[LovelyLuna]

I think the Bateses are more likable because they are witches, of the King James Bible variety. Even I get sucked in, its the only logical possibility. 

[Mela99]

Legit not an attempt to be snotty question ... but have we ever seen Allie Jane WITHOUT a headband?

[withaj]

24 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Legit not an attempt to be snotty question ... but have we ever seen Allie Jane WITHOUT a headband?

Not sure, actually... I've only ever noticed when they're smaller than usual 

[tumblr]

Something odd I just noticed, BUB is on at 9pm. Is Ups lineup so packed that it couldn't be at 8pm? Is there something about BUB that Up considers to be inappropriate for 8pm?

I am an absolute TV junkie and it's just odd to me that something marketed as family TV doesn't come on until 9pm.

[singsingsing]

43 minutes ago, tumblr said:

Something odd I just noticed, BUB is on at 9pm. Is Ups lineup so packed that it couldn't be at 8pm? Is there something about BUB that Up considers to be inappropriate for 8pm?

I am an absolute TV junkie and it's just odd to me that something marketed as family TV doesn't come on until 9pm.

19 Kids and Counting used to air at 9 p.m., too. I have no idea why, but apparently it happens.