Bates Family Part 7

[pnwgypsy]

I posted this earlier in the thread, UTK music scholarships: http://www.music.utk.edu/ugrad/scholarships.html

[maple802]

3 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Well, I tried to be a clarinet major, which was a non-starter. When I started in marching band (the school has a nationally known marching band), the assistant director said, "can't you play ANYTHING else?" There were way too many clarinet players. He told me that I wouldn't be cut if I learned how to play the euphonium. I started out just holding it, but eventually learned to play well enough to make two college All-American marching bands, one for the Statue of Liberty Centennial Celebration in New York in 1986 and the other for the US Constitution Bicentennial Celebration in Philadelphia in 1987. It was so much more fun playing low brass, since there were fewer of us.

What is your voice or instrument?

Awesome! I grew up playing clarinet (and had a turn playing for a semester in my college pep band). I'm a contralto and studied privately for a while, but was never serious enough to pursue it further. Now I do most of my singing in church and occasionally at work (we have a group that sings carols on request as a charity fundraiser).

[Arete]

I don't see an ounce of submission in Jessa Duggar.  I find Jill  Duggar as grating as Erin Bates in terms of that simpering "this is my headship" way.

People get conned into thinking the Bates are better than the Duggars because the Bates are more photogenic than the Duggars.  The Bates marriages are no more egalitarian than the Duggars.  The only thing that can be hoped is none are the sick perv Josh Duggar turned out to be.

[imokit]

I think for me the older Bates girls have been allowed to do things outside the home.  Erin went to Crown and yes maybe they didn't let her go to a proper uni, but it was still a regular large time commitment when she wasn't minding her siblings.  

Michael did regular volunteering with the fire service. 

Tori is at crown. 

None of the Duggar girls have been allowed to make non babysitting commitments like that.  Even Jill's midwifery was Internet and family friend based with flexible hours. 

 

[Denim Jumper]

8 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Having done legal work representing mega churches... Let's just say I don't want my kids hanging out at them.  It is my firm (though perhaps overly protective and paranoid) prejudice, that youth programs in churches are havens for predators.  That's an unfair prejudice when applied to the vast, vast majority of people involved in these programs, but I don't allow my kids to be left alone with people I don't know.  Period.  It takes one effed up person with access to ruin a kid's life.  NOPE.  And there is no way for me to keep track of or background check or otherwise vet EVERY person who might have access to my kids in a huge church youth program.  And then, on top of sanctioned at-facility activities, they are always organizing outside activities chaperoned by random adults.  These outside activities are a breeding ground for inappropriate behavior.  I have seen it happen and know the details.  I find it all very, very unsettling.   

so... My kids are heathens.

 

Smaller churches aren't necessarily any better. My husband was a youth pastor for 10 years, and one of the reasons why he ended up leaving was, after finding child pornography searches on the church computer, he called a meeting with the leadership and they refused to do any kind of investigation; they just brushed it off as "kids being curious". Which is bull because the computer was password protected, in a locked office, which only half a dozen people had access to (plus how common is it for a kid to search for child porn?). He wasn't calling for the person(s) to be outed and publicly shamed, but made it clear (considering the person was most likely present during the meeting) that he only wanted to make sure the person gets the help he/she needs. I get that not every person who looks at kiddie porn actually molests children, but too much trust is put in these people, without any regard for the safety and well-being of the children.

[formergothardite]

29 minutes ago, imokit said:

I think for me the older Bates girls have been allowed to do things outside the home.  Erin went to Crown and yes maybe they didn't let her go to a proper uni, but it was still a regular large time commitment when she wasn't minding her siblings.  

Michael did regular volunteering with the fire service. 

Tori is at crown. 

None of the Duggar girls have been allowed to make non babysitting commitments like that.  Even Jill's midwifery was Internet and family friend based with flexible hours. 

 

The Duggar girls did EMS volunteer stuff too. And a Duggar son has moved out of state to go to college. Erin was lucky that she had an  approved career that she was naturally talented in. I can't fault the Duggar daughters for not pursuing a music major when none of them seem particularly talented in that area. Micheal did some vague studying at a community college, but her only job was babysitting kids and that is on top of having to practically raise her siblings. I won't be surprised if we see Duggar kids start going to community college now that reality tv has been snatched away from them. 

[boxedin]

Anyone remember when there actually were fangirls for "Hot Fundie Gil"? I've tried searching yuku because I remember conversations about how hot he was...(not my type). Oh well....  We'll have to wait and see how hot things get with this court case.  

[Mela99]

11 minutes ago, boxedin said:

Anyone remember when there actually were fangirls for "Hot Fundie Gil"? I've tried searching yuku because I remember conversations about how hot he was...(not my type). Oh well....  We'll have to wait and see how hot things get with this court case.  

[Ofglen]

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

I don't know music programs, but doesn't the fact that Erin was accepted to attend a real university mean that she had to have applied/auditioned in the first place? I can't imagine that she'd be considered so talented by experts (her playing at weddings is painful to my ears) that she'd be approached instead of her doing the approaching. So I find it hard to believe that Gil and Kelly didn't apply a ton of pressure to get her to go to Clown instead. Sure, it seemed to have worked out for her in the end considering the life she wants, but that's out of sheer dumb luck. It's not like going to Clown gave her much of an option.

It really depends on the music program and whether it's a department, school, or standalone conservatory, and if a department or school, it's relationship with the college. With the school I went to, I applied/auditioned for a conservatory associated with a college, and was "recommended" for admission by the performance faculty after my audition, and that recommendation is almost always respected with the exception of extenuating circumstances. (The students were almost always highly motivated in their academic studies however, so this practice worked for my school.)

I don't know much about piano performance at the other school Erin was accepted into and how strong a program it is, but it might have been her teacher (who was a faculty member, right?) who "recommended" her for admission when she submitted the application. This decision would have needed to have been supported by a majority of the other major faculty members, and even if Erin didn't have a great audition (which she may have), a students' reputation with a faculty member teacher means a lot for admission- if that teacher knows she has a good work ethic and great potential it's likely she was a shoo-in and the other faculty members trusted her teacher. Remember, if all the other students in the program suck, she doesn't have to be amazing to be wanted by the school and get a great scholarship, just better than the competition. Which is not always hard at schools with weak music programs. I'm not saying that school has a weak program- I just don't know anything about it.

[accountingstar]

Jeb & Judson

Not too much action on Instagram today.

But it appears that Lawson's horse now has his own Instagram.

Lawson Bates ‏@lawbates
Some of my best friends never say a word to me.

Lawson Bates ‏@lawbates
It's going to be a good episode!! DON'T MISS IT! #bringingupbates

I wonder how Lawson knows AJ. It appears that BUB was filming today.
 
Prayers4AJCucksey
‏@PrayersforAJ
@lawbates @UPtv @BringingUpBates  thank you for coming by and helping AJ celebrate his end of chemo party!!

Kelly did a blog post on AJ in 2015. http://thebatesfamily.com/true-inspiration/

Quote

I was honored to sing in Rocky Top with my five-year-old friend AJ, as a surprise for Peyton Manning at his Charity Golf tournament yesterday! In 2014 AJ was diagnosed with multiple inoperable brain tumors. He is a fighter and a true inspiration and he needs all of our prayers! Proceeds from the tournament went to support East TN children’s hospital and the PeyBack foundation. If you would like to support children’s hospital and awesome kids like AJ you can do that by clicking HERE.

 

[kjmackin]

Contributing to the Michigan thread drift. I grew up south of Detriot closer to Ohio (very close) and some how I missed the concept of Mega Churches until I moved out of state. Most people in my social group were Catholics or Lutheran with some youth exploring other churches towards the end of high school. I know a fair amount of of my high school friends explored the more liberal fun outgoing churches because they found the churches they grew up in boring. Those who stayed religious or became more religious they went to school likes Concordia, Spring Arbor, or St. Mary's  

As for the religious cults in my home town I was obvious to it. I didn't realize one of the families that I was very close to were apart of the Independent Bapist cult until last year when I went down the Duggar/Bates rabbit hole. Now where I attended university there is the biggest population of Apostolic Lutheran congeration in America. Although after I left I learned that I drove pass several ATI properties and associated schools when I visited my husband's side of the family. Now whenever I go into one of the two nearby cities I can toss a stone in any direction and I would hit a mega church.

 

 

[sndral]

Given the fundy family dynamic I'd assume that Gil and Kelly nixed any thoughts Erin had about attending college far from home, but, IME when it comes to choosing colleges kids oft times make choices that don't make sense to others and are contrary to what their parents think best. Now maybe that's because the 18 year olds I see making those questionable choices are given the freedom to make their own - even not great - choices by their parents. But Erin may not be the type to venture that far out of her comfort level.

For example one of my nieces chose her school based on the fact that it was close to where her high school bf had decided to go (she wasn't accepted where he went and he didn't apply where she got in.) Everyone urged her to choose based on her interests, but she wasn't listening. Another niece really wanted to go to a small college, even though she's really bright, had outstanding grades, terrific SATs, ACTs, etc., and could have gone just about anywhere, the thought of a big University frightened her a bit, so she ended up going to a mid sized private Uni.

That Erin, being as sheltered from real life as she was, would not want to move away from the comfort zone of her family to attend a big university and be on her own doesn't surprise me because I've seen that hesitation in some kids raised by fairly liberal parents.

Personally I couldn't wait to head as far away from home as possible for college, so I don't 'get' the more cautious/fearful types - but I don't think they only crop up in fundy land.

 

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, sndral said:

Given the fundy family dynamic I'd assume that Gil and Kelly nixed any thoughts Erin had about attending college far from home, but, IME when it comes to choosing colleges kids oft times make choices that don't make sense to others and are contrary to what their parents think best. Now maybe that's because the 18 year olds I see making those questionable choices are given the freedom to make their own - even not great - choices by their parents. But Erin may not be the type to venture that far out of her comfort level.

For example one of my nieces chose her school based on the fact that it was close to where her high school bf had decided to go (she wasn't accepted where he went and he didn't apply where she got in.) Everyone urged her to choose based on her interests, but she wasn't listening. Another niece really wanted to go to a small college, even though she's really bright, had outstanding grades, terrific SATs, ACTs, etc., and could have gone just about anywhere, the thought of a big University frightened her a bit, so she ended up going to a mid sized private Uni.

That Erin, being as sheltered from real life as she was, would not want to move away from the comfort zone of her family to attend a big university and be on her own doesn't surprise me because I've seen that hesitation in some kids raised by fairly liberal parents.

Personally I couldn't wait to head as far away from home as possible for college, so I don't 'get' the more cautious/fearful types - but I don't think they only crop up in fundy land.

 

I was originally the sort of "I'm getting the hell out of here and going as far away as possible" person in my college search, but my dad urged me to check out the small liberal arts school he went to that was an hour and a half away from home...and I fell in love with it. It was just the perfect fit for my interests and academic aspirations. And the hour and a half distance was short enough that getting home was cheap and easy, but long enough that my family couldn't make surprise visits. I did kinda ruin things for my sister, though, because she was all "I'M APPLYING TO SCHOOLS IN OREGON BYE", and my parents gently hinted that they liked not having to deal with shipping stuff and buying plane tickets when I was in school, so now she goes to a university 2.5 hours away from home. Thankfully, she also fell in love with her school and is very happy there. I should also note that we live in New England, where you can practically trip over a liberal arts college or university any direction you go. And of course, I moved to China and then the UK after I graduated, so I'm not exactly a homebody.

People who go to college close to home may just have found a place that really works for them, may not want to pay hundreds of dollars/deal with airports just to go home for breaks, or may have other reasons why they choose to stay more local. It doesn't mean that they're stupid or overly cautious.

[Alye]

Going away to Uni isn't really a thing in Australia. You go to whatever Unis are closest to you (almost all are in capital cities) unless they don't offer the degree or major you want. You live with your parents unless you grew up in the country and even then the majority of people lived in private housing because the campus housing was so expensive. For example, my sisters lived in a flat paid for by my parents for the first 2 years of Uni and then when we moved into the city when my brother graduated high school they moved straight back in. I lived with my parents, worked a part time job and studied through my first degree and even now with my second, and at 28, I'm doing the same thing. Economically I just can't afford to live on my own nor can I find a full-time job so I'm studying in the interim. My HECS debt (government loan) is ridiculously high but I don't need to pay it until I reach the income threshold.

[Tdoc72]

10 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

Smaller churches aren't necessarily any better. My husband was a youth pastor for 10 years, and one of the reasons why he ended up leaving was, after finding child pornography searches on the church computer, he called a meeting with the leadership and they refused to do any kind of investigation; they just brushed it off as "kids being curious". Which is bull because the computer was password protected, in a locked office, which only half a dozen people had access to (plus how common is it for a kid to search for child porn?). He wasn't calling for the person(s) to be outed and publicly shamed, but made it clear (considering the person was most likely present during the meeting) that he only wanted to make sure the person gets the help he/she needs. I get that not every person who looks at kiddie porn actually molests children, but too much trust is put in these people, without any regard for the safety and well-being of the children.

So what ended up happening?  Did he pursue it any further or take it to the police?

[ElegantMajesticPearls]

14 hours ago, boxedin said:

Anyone remember when there actually were fangirls for "Hot Fundie Gil"? I've tried searching yuku because I remember conversations about how hot he was...(not my type). Oh well....  We'll have to wait and see how hot things get with this court case.  

   I remember that. It was on TWOP though

[singsingsing]

 

10 hours ago, sndral said:

Given the fundy family dynamic I'd assume that Gil and Kelly nixed any thoughts Erin had about attending college far from home, but, IME when it comes to choosing colleges kids oft times make choices that don't make sense to others and are contrary to what their parents think best. Now maybe that's because the 18 year olds I see making those questionable choices are given the freedom to make their own - even not great - choices by their parents. But Erin may not be the type to venture that far out of her comfort level.

For example one of my nieces chose her school based on the fact that it was close to where her high school bf had decided to go (she wasn't accepted where he went and he didn't apply where she got in.) Everyone urged her to choose based on her interests, but she wasn't listening. Another niece really wanted to go to a small college, even though she's really bright, had outstanding grades, terrific SATs, ACTs, etc., and could have gone just about anywhere, the thought of a big University frightened her a bit, so she ended up going to a mid sized private Uni.

That Erin, being as sheltered from real life as she was, would not want to move away from the comfort zone of her family to attend a big university and be on her own doesn't surprise me because I've seen that hesitation in some kids raised by fairly liberal parents.

Personally I couldn't wait to head as far away from home as possible for college, so I don't 'get' the more cautious/fearful types - but I don't think they only crop up in fundy land.

 

You're making a lot of very negative assumptions about people who choose not to go to large universities far from home. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'frightened' to prefer a smaller university. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'cautious and fearful' to choose to stick close to home. Maybe you like it where you live and feel no need to move away. Maybe you get along really well with your family and want to keep that support system nearby. Maybe your local university has a great program that you prefer. Maybe money is tight and it's a much wiser financial decision to stay in town. Or hey, maybe your local university is literally the only place you could get accepted. Not everyone is privileged enough or wealthy enough to go and 'spread their wings' and 'find themselves' far from home at a huge university, and plenty of people just don't want to. 

[HermioneSparrow]

14 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

 

You're making a lot of very negative assumptions about people who choose not to go to large universities far from home. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'frightened' to prefer a smaller university. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'cautious and fearful' to choose to stick close to home. Maybe you like it where you live and feel no need to move away. Maybe you get along really well with your family and want to keep that support system nearby. Maybe your local university has a great program that you prefer. Maybe money is tight and it's a much wiser financial decision to stay in town. Or hey, maybe your local university is literally the only place you could get accepted. Not everyone is privileged enough or wealthy enough to go and 'spread their wings' and 'find themselves' far from home at a huge university, and plenty of people just don't want to. 

I agree SO MUCH with this. I just decided to go to a smaller closer Uni for grad school, it was financially a better suit for me. I got accepted to one of the best schools on Education and it was my dream school but it wasn't affordable to me.. My bestie was accepted too and she CAN afford it but it doesn't fit with her work hours (it's a very demanding program), so none of us can go for entirely different reasons.

[felinefundie]

When I was applying to schools, I applied to three universities. I got accepted with scholarships to all of them, but I ended up going to my state school because, even with scholarships, out of state tuition was too expensive. It was also, at a five hour drive from my hometown, the closest school I applied to. Because out here in the Western U.S., a five hour drive is a decent weekend trip... Luckily, even though it's a state school, I still live in a relatively unpopulated state, so it's not huge. The school I thought was my dream school is about twice the size and in retrospect, I'm so glad I didn't choose that school. I don't do well at all in huge lectures.

If I were a fundie SAHD who lived nearby, Crown would definitely be my top choice over any state university. It's "approved" for one thing, but its also close by, small, and I would feel comfortable there. I mean, Erin had no real choice in the matter, but I honestly wouldn't think she has any regrets. My upbringing is about as opposite from fundie as you can get, and going to a university was still a massive shock. If I had had a close by option that I was more comfortable with theologically and fit my educational needs, I definitely would have chosen that. Although, my theological views have nothing to do with my education, and I need a school that's actually accredited, but hey. Crown is a good choice for people who wish to remain very entrenched in their beliefs. 

[QuiverDance]

Quote

You're making a lot of very negative assumptions about people who choose not to go to large universities far from home. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'frightened' to prefer a smaller university. There are tons of valid reasons beyond being 'cautious and fearful' to choose to stick close to home. Maybe you like it where you live and feel no need to move away. Maybe you get along really well with your family and want to keep that support system nearby. Maybe your local university has a great program that you prefer. Maybe money is tight and it's a much wiser financial decision to stay in town. Or hey, maybe your local university is literally the only place you could get accepted. Not everyone is privileged enough or wealthy enough to go and 'spread their wings' and 'find themselves' far from home at a huge university, and plenty of people just don't want to. 

Totally agree.  I went to school where I had scholarships plus extra money to help support me so that I wouldn't need a job.  I went to law school in state where I got a full tuition scholarship.  Not having student loan debt has been a BIG HELP to me.  Not going to the best school I could get into was actually a really good financial decision that gave me a lot of freedom.  

[purple_summer]

Plus some state Uni's are just TOO BIG. I knew I wanted to be able to have lively class discussions and you just don't get that in 500 person lecture classes. Being able to "disappear" into the crowd in class wouldn't work for me academically or socially. I also could have gone nearly anywhere (no rejections from any schools I applied to) but I ended up at a mid sized university of about 15k students. Do I sometimes wish I had the chance to enjoy some of the big uni amenities? Sure I do. But I also know that I got a great education at a fraction of the cost of other schools. That's what's most important in the end imo.

[FormerlyFundyLite]

Here's one for Community Colleges! I went to Community College for several reasons: family had just adopted and I didn't want to show up on the doorstep during break and say "Hey, I'm your sister...let me in", it was cheaper, I hadn't settled on a major yet, etc. Ultimately, I did transfer to and graduate from State U, but I strongly believe that I got a better education from my CC profs than from my Uni profs. CC profs are there to teach, while Uni profs are often there to research, and they teach on the side. I love my University--good experience, best program in the state for my major (and one of the best in the country), and I love my CC too.

[19 cats and counting]

1 hour ago, purple_summer said:

Plus some state Uni's are just TOO BIG. I knew I wanted to be able to have lively class discussions and you just don't get that in 500 person lecture classes. Being able to "disappear" into the crowd in class wouldn't work for me academically or socially. I also could have gone nearly anywhere (no rejections from any schools I applied to) but I ended up at a mid sized university of about 15k students. Do I sometimes wish I had the chance to enjoy some of the big uni amenities? Sure I do. But I also know that I got a great education at a fraction of the cost of other schools. That's what's most important in the end imo.

I was the exact opposite.  It had been drilled into my head since I was little "big school=bad small school=good" and I was only allowed to look at/apply to small schools.  If I had expressed interest in a larger school I was told only the negatives of them by my mom.  I went to a small K-12 school where everyone knew each other since kindergarten and I didn't want that again (I was an introverted outcast and was miserable).  But my mom thought that was the only way to live.

Needless to say, I ended up at a conservative Christian school 10 hours away and I was a fish out of water.  My first exposure to fundies was my roommate, who followed her high school boyfriend of 2 years to college, but at that point they never kissed.  She was saving her first kiss for her wedding day.  I wound up transferring locally to a school where I was a commuter (and worked FT) and I had no friends/social life at school at all.  

Thing with larger schools is that they offer something for everyone.  Smaller schools are great if you're the type that does well there.  If you're not, you're in for hell.  Bringing this back to Erin, it seems like she's the type that Crown was meant for.  And if she was happy, then good for her.

[formergothardite]

I'm glad Crown College seemed to work for Erin, but it would be foolish to act like her parents gave her a real choice. No way Gil and Kelly wouldn't have heaped huge amounts of guilt on Erin if she had even expressed slight interest in going to a university. 

[Denim Jumper]

7 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

So what ended up happening?  Did he pursue it any further or take it to the police?

He tipped off the police, but I don't what ever came of it because we had already left a couple of weeks prior. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I think in order to be charged with a crime, someone would have to knowingly posses pornographic content (as opposed to "accidentally" clicking on a link); its probably hard to prove that on a shared computer.