Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[nokidsmom]

"Trapped by my own upbringing" would a great post count title!

And it rings so true with kids brought up fundie.   Tis' sad but true.

[nokidsmom]

I'm sure he's not addicted to pornography, and they threw the term out there to help Josh look like a victim (poor guy was too weak to resist Satan).  The media latched on so they've run with it.

I have always thought that Josh's so-called "addiction" was not addiction as it's clinically defined.   This is Duggar-speak once again. 

[Justme]

I agree. I have worked in family law practice in the past (in Canada, paralegal) and I understand that you cannot get blood from a stone. I'm just saying she would be entitled to it, whether he pays it or not, whether he is garnisheed, loses his drivers license or whatever remedies for payment the state makes, and I'm sure he will not go forever without some sort of income. I'm obviously not familiar with each states laws, but if she were to separate and relocate to Florida where her family is, could she not eventually file for divorce in that state? Would it be more favorable there? She would also have her brother to help her for a while withstanding his offer is still on the table. Point is either way (stay or leave) she is a going to have shitty consequences.

True, but you can't squeeze money out of a stone. Josh would probably "work" for Boob at minimum wage. The rest would be in room, board, under the table, etc. Even if Anna received 50% of his salary, that's not much to live on. In order to survive, Anna would have to work.

There is always hope her non-fundie siblings will talk some sense into her.

[Gossamer1]

I have always thought that Josh's so-called "addiction" was not addiction as it's clinically defined.   This is Duggar-speak once again. 

I agree. I think they use the term addiction to absolve Josh (and themselves) of any real responsibility for his actions or their child rearing practices. It also allows them to double down on the fundie lifestyle because,  obviously, it's the evil world that caused all these problems. If everyone just behaved the way they were supposed to then Josh never would have been tempted to do the things he did. It's all our fault, they did everything right.

[nokidsmom]

I agree. I think they use the term addiction to absolve Josh (and themselves) of any real responsibility for his actions or their child rearing practices. It also allows them to double down on the fundie lifestyle because,  obviously, it's the evil world that caused all these problems. If everyone just behaved the way they were supposed to then Josh never would have been tempted to do the things he did. It's all our fault, they did everything right.

Agree and I also thought of this: using the term addiction not only absolves themselves but it also serves as tricking the public into thinking it's really an addiction issue (in the clinical sense) and Josh is getting real help as opposed to what it really is.     Using the keywords like "addiction" and "rehab" will bring up certain ideas in the public's mind and no one will give much thought to it being different because most people will not be famiiiar with the Gothard/Fundie method of dealing with real problems.

[mair73]

The one thought that keeps coming back to me is....  How can Anna with straight face raise her daughters in the same lifestyle? It is one thing to believe for yourself, or to make sacrifices for what you believe is best for your children, but after all this can she really preach to them that this is the right way?  

[ksgranola1]

I don't think she has the critical thinking skills to get that deep. I hope someone will bring it up to her, tho. A counselor would.

[gustava]

 

 

[sophie10130]

As with many cults, they have the best defense when someone goes rogue and does something bad:

They aren't Godly enough. They didn't believe hard enough.

So I don't think Anna sees anything wrong with this lifestyle. Josh was a deceiver. He wasn't as Godly as he pretended to be. That's why he did this. He was a heathen in fundie clothing.

So if anything, she sees what happens when you're too worldly, and she will want to safeguard against that and be more conservative when raising her children and raise them to be more conservative as well.

[Gossamer1]

Flip Wilson! I loved that show. 

[foreign fundie]

I am often surprised at the amount of sh*t women can put up with in order to raise their kids in the face of trouble. Anna has every right to be a basket case. A restrictive upbringing, married off to a selfish adolecent, years of non-stop baby care with little emotional support, having your life displayed for the world to see and snark on, being publicly humiliated by an a-hole husband, losing your income, being left alone with the even more depressing perspective of having your husband return and want to continue his 'marriage', and did I mention the in-laws? Honestly, people have gone depressed or crazy for less. Yet here she is, smiling, groomed, facing those awful camera's again, kids well fed and dressed. Apart from what she or anybody believes her future will/should look like, the fact that she is on her feet deserves respect. And it makes me feel even madder at Josh for treating her so badly when she is obviously a much better woman than he deserved.

[Pretzel]

I am often surprised at the amount of sh*t women can put up with in order to raise their kids in the face of trouble. Anna has every right to be a basket case. A restrictive upbringing, married off to a selfish adolecent, years of non-stop baby care with little emotional support, having your life displayed for the world to see and snark on, being publicly humiliated by an a-hole husband, losing your income, being left alone with the even more depressing perspective of having your husband return and want to continue his 'marriage', and did I mention the in-laws? Honestly, people have gone depressed or crazy for less. Yet here she is, smiling, groomed, facing those awful camera's again, kids well fed and dressed. Apart from what she or anybody believes her future will/should look like, the fact that she is on her feet deserves respect. And it makes me feel even madder at Josh for treating her so badly when she is obviously a much better woman than he deserved.

I think apart from the Duggars themselves and their ilk, nobody doubts that Anna deserved much, much better than that asshole of a husband a.k.a. the biggest hypocrite ever. 

[lizzybee]

I think if you consider their line of thinking and Gothard's teachings that "your sin will find you out"/ any secrets you have will come out, etc. to Anna/Duggar fam/Josh, it just looks like that teaching was spot on. His secrets did find him out, he was shamed publicly for them, just like the bible/Gothard promised they would. If anything this would have reaffirmed what Anna has been taught (and Josh for that matter) her whole life. So did her sister getting pregnant out of wedlock. While to normal eyes we see it one way and can call a spade a spade, Anna just sees all these bad things happen when you "get out from under your God assigned umbrella of protection." That's why she can do it with a straight face - she believes it with all her heart and has evidence to support those beliefs. 

As for Josh, I wouldn't be surprised if this has scared the snot out of him which is why I'm part of the line of thinking that he could come back more indoctrinated than ever for a time and eventually work the circuit with his redemption story. People have had a road to Damascus type conversion over less. David Rodrigues went nuts over a tract, Josh has been publicly called out and I could easily see how he could connect the dots to God stepping in punish him for bad deeds. Think of how God punishes David for his affair with Bathsheba and for having her husband murdered. Josh could easily go there with this experience. He might come back after a time more zealous than anyone in the family and wanting to tell anyone who will listen what happened to him. It's a possibility. 

[Justme]

Has Josh ever been seen since checking into reform school? Lots of rumors, but any actual sightings?

[tsukinokawa]

 

 

god this is just pure gold and fits totally with the whole "fundie hits a trouble- blames on devil" 

[WhyNotJulie]

Josh could easily go there with this experience. He might come back after a time more zealous than anyone in the family and wanting to tell anyone who will listen what happened to him. It's a possibility. 

I think it's a very, very likely possibility.

[ljohnson2006]

Anna will be announcing M5 soon after Smugs' return. Like another baby will fix all the problems.

[Drala]

 

Has Josh ever been seen since checking into reform school? Lots of rumors, but any actual sightings?

There have been no sightings that I'm aware of, but it appears as though the lawsuit papers were delivered to Josh at RU in Rockville.   There's a lot of evidence that points to him being at RU at least up to the week before Thanksgiving, and no evidence thus far that he was at home for the holiday.  The lack of actual sightings at RU is odd, though, and it suggests that Josh is getting special handling to protect his privacy.

Given the reformatory nature of the RU program, I'm a little surprised someone as entitled as Josh seems to be has stuck it out at Jesus boot camp this long.  My guess is that JB told Josh that he wasn't welcome back home until he did his time at RU and completed the program.  If Josh sticks it out, he should be resurfacing sometime late next February or early March.

[OodOnTheLoo]

Anna will be announcing M5 soon after Smugs' return. Like another baby will fix all the problems.

but it will be proof positive God approves of their choices and is blessing them.

Since everyone else is speculating, I see Josh coming back home and going on lockdown.  He will be provided a home without wifi. I. Wouldn't be surprised if JimBob installs something to block the signal. He will be given a flip phone of shame.  He will have an accountability buddy wherever he goes.  JimBob will have him "working" for Duggar properties just like all the other kids.

 Josh will hate his life but he won't go anywhere.  If he hits the lecture circuit it will only be after JimBob and Mechelle share their story.   Chances are only the girls will be given speaking engagements but they will dry up because they refuse to do anything but repeat the same, stupid script we are going to hear on the TLC specials.

Josh will continue to hate his life and resent Anna.  It's here that I am fearful for Anna and the kids.  We will have a guy with a HUGE ego trapped, shamed, and frustrated.  It's got to come come out somehow.

[JenniferJuniper]

No actual sightings.  Not a one.  For me the best evidence that he's at or somehow physically linked to RU (there or staying with a counselor nearby) is the address listed on the lawsuit.

However, that's not actual proof he's there either. As the tabloids were reporting he is there (thanks to information they culled from FreeJinger), her attorney may simply have read the online "news" and used their address on the complaint.  We have no way of knowing whether he was actually served with papers there. Or anywhere, for that matter.

[nokidsmom]

 

There have been no sightings that I'm aware of, but it appears as though the lawsuit papers were delivered to Josh at RU in Rockville.   There's a lot of evidence that points to him being at RU at least up to the week before Thanksgiving, and no evidence thus far that he was at home for the holiday.  The lack of actual sightings at RU is odd, though, and it suggests that Josh is getting special handling to protect his privacy.

Given the reformatory nature of the RU program, I'm a little surprised someone as entitled as Josh seems to be has stuck it out at Jesus boot camp this long.  My guess is that JB told Josh that he wasn't welcome back home until he did his time at RU and completed the program.  If Josh sticks it out, he should be resurfacing sometime late next February or early March.

Entirely possible that Josh was told to do the time at RU if he expected to come back.   However, given that Josh is probably not going to feel very welcome in the TTH in any case, toughing it out at RU might be preferable.   It is strange that there's been no reports of him being there or sightings.   Even if people are told not to talk about him, there's got to be enough people exiting the program so a "gag order" wouldn't apply to them anymore.  I suspect that if he's there, he's getting special treatment, which of course would make RU even more preferable to being at home.

[nokidsmom]

but it will be proof positive God approves of their choices and is blessing them.

Since everyone else is speculating, I see Josh coming back home and going on lockdown.  He will be provided a home without wifi. I. Wouldn't be surprised if JimBob installs something to block the signal. He will be given a flip phone of shame.  He will have an accountability buddy wherever he goes.  JimBob will have him "working" for Duggar properties just like all the other kids.

 Josh will hate his life but he won't go anywhere.  If he hits the lecture circuit it will only be after JimBob and Mechelle share their story.   Chances are only the girls will be given speaking engagements but they will dry up because they refuse to do anything but repeat the same, stupid script we are going to hear on the TLC specials.

Josh will continue to hate his life and resent Anna.  It's here that I am fearful for Anna and the kids.  We will have a guy with a HUGE ego trapped, shamed, and frustrated.  It's got to come come out somehow.

Agree that Josh doesn't have much of a life ahead of him.   JB will not let Josh out of his sight and frankly the only employment prospects are working for dad or some sympathetic leghumper.  If Josh hated his life before, he will really hate his life after. 

A far cry for someone who thought (SOTDRT notwithstanding) that going to DC was the beginning of great things. 

There's been discussion about his employment prospects and that his history won't be an issue.   Given the public disclosure of his "sins" he will have a tougher time versus someone unknown with the same history.   This is one aspect of where his parents failed him.  Had they gone the proper channels in handling the molestations, his record would have been sealed at 18.  Even the AM / cheating scandal would have not changed that only criminal activity would have unsealed the record.  

 

[Catey]

It is just so crazy.

Not even touching on the shit he did while a teenager.

So as an adult, he looked at porn, signed up for a website that is there just to cater to men who are married and want to cheat, then he cheated.

Dam, if that is all it takes to get your butt locked up for months of rehab/reprogramming then there would be a whole heck of a lot of men doing time.

The person who should be livid is Anna, and by association her family followed by his, then perhaps their congregation and close friends.

In REAL life that would be the end of it. His wife would either forgive him and try to make a go of it or she would kick his cheating ass to the curb.

How on earth can he/she re-invest in the insane life theories that made this so much worse than it had to be in the 1st place. Were it not for the impossibly high standards set on her she could have just dealt with this and then moved on to live the path she chose, how convenient for him that he gets to shelter in place while this swirls and she gets to be the face of the scandal to the world. THAT would piss me off more than any of it, so you get to hide out re-finding God while I deal with 4 kids. our families and the world, oh HELL NO, you get out here and hold down the fort while I go find forgiveness at a cloistered monastery, you deal with the paparazzi you deal with the fallout, I am going to get me some Zen.

And possible a hot rock massage,

[JenniferJuniper]

Agree.  In the real world, Josh would have never left home, wherever that turned out to be. (I still think the house-selling thing is bizarre as it was also in Anna's name and couldn't have been taken from her.)

He and his wife may have gone to counseling or they may not have.  She might have kicked his ass from there to Kansas, or she might have listened to his pleas that she forgive him and his promises that he'd never do it again.   Either way, it would have been just between them, regardless of any press coverage.

But in Duggarville, his father is still controlling his life even though he's in his late 20's.  They lost control when he left for DC and now they are bound and determined to make him bend to their will.  So far, he's playing along.  But they can't hide him forever.

What happens next will be fascinating, although whatever happens is likely to add more pain for Anna. 

[Drala]

A positive aspect of the RU program is it's emphasis on work.  Josh could use RU to build his skills to become independently employed. A more independent husband is a negative for the survival of the marriage, imo.