Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[djmd]

This is recycled... a couple/few weeks ago an article with the exact same theme came out. Can't remember which crappy source it was from though.

[2manyKidzzz]

Anna is beautiful. The still shot in the article above really shows it. It was not so apparent back in the crinkly hair days, but she really is. I wish her the best. Many woman go through these things but most are not in a strange cult. 

[elliha]

I feel the opposite. I believe Josh is a threat to children. His upbringing had nothing to do with this. Child molesters come from all walks of life.

 

Josh had access too females when other families visited and at ATI conventions. So the whole lack of access to girls/women his own age, doesn't fly. Besides, one of the victims was only 5 years old.

Josh is a child molester, yes, but he may or may not be a pedophile. If he has not consumed child pornography or done anything to his children now I don't actually think he is a pedophile and then his attacks back then were more opportunistic. Thing is that we don't know if his porn addition included more than adult porn which we can more or less say it included because of the law suit and Danica's claims that he had seen her in one of her films. So far, what is known seems to indicate more of an opportunistic attack when he was a teen than something motivated by pedophilia. His access to girls outside the family in more private settings were probably very limited and who is to say he has not touched more people that are not known? If they are still in his circles they might feel it is digging a deeper grave for a man who is already down to tell the world he squeezed my left boob at an ATI event.  

[jacduggar]

I don't believe leaving Josh was a thought that ever came in Anna's path. She's pretty drenched in the fundie life, and her major support system when this all went down was the Duggar clan. I'm sure they made her nice and comfortable with the idea of repenting and forgiveness for healing. 

 

I will branch out and say that she was told (or believed herself) that sin got ahold of Josh and he didn't actually hurt her on purpose. It's very possible that she believes Josh was overcome by the devil and can't be held accountable for his "sins". Fundie land is nuts and Gothard is a special kind of crazy.

[MyMilkshake]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/fans-trash-lazy-non-working-grifter-duggars-on-facebook-for-exploiting-molestation-in-new-show/

Interesting response to Anna Duggar's clip on the Counting On trailer.

The comments are great.

[JenniferJuniper]

I wish Anna knew how many people are thinking about her and wishing her well.  I think she'd be astonished to know how much sympathetic concern people have for  her.

She probably would be.

But she's going to lose most of that support when he returns and she goes back to gazing at him adoringly while he prattles on about how grateful he is to be born again in Christ.  Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become as new.

She'll get it eventually, but sadly it probably won't be for a long time.  And Meri will almost certainly have younger siblings.

[EmCatlyn]

I don't believe leaving Josh was a thought that ever came in Anna's path. She's pretty drenched in the fundie life, and her major support system when this all went down was the Duggar clan. I'm sure they made her nice and comfortable with the idea of repenting and forgiveness for healing. 

I will branch out and say that she was told (or believed herself) that sin got ahold of Josh and he didn't actually hurt her on purpose. It's very possible that she believes Josh was overcome by the devil and can't be held accountable for his "sins". Fundie land is nuts and Gothard is a special kind of crazy.

I mostly agree with you.  The only thing above that I would change is that since divorce was apparently suggested to her by her brother, she probably has thought about divorce but discarded it as an option.  This is important because she has made a choice.  It may not make sense to us, but she has chosen to stay. Though she may not have all the facts and she may have been brainwashed, she nevertheless made a decision about her future when she accepted that divorce was not an option for her.

Regarding her viewing Josh's actions as sins that he committed while under the influence of the devil, I totally agree.  That is the only way they can forgive.  They separate the person from the sin in a strange way.

[AngelGirl8811]

Anna has a tough road ahead of her, I hope that she is enjoying her time away from Josh. I mean the circumstances for him being gone must be heartbreaking but if I were her, I'd want to kill him, so while I was gazing adoringly at him, I would be thinking about pulling a Lorena Bobbitt! "A Joshy chop, a Joshy chop!" 

[Drala]

Regarding her viewing Josh's actions as sins that he committed while under the influence of the devil, I totally agree.  That is the only way they can forgive.  They separate the person from the sin in a strange way.

This blows my mind, because it means Josh will not be held accountable for the consequences of his choices. Except, perhaps,  to the extent he let the devil come in and build that secret fortress in his heart. After that, he's off the hook.  It's like blaming the booze when an alcoholic acts out. At some point, a problem drinker makes a decision to drink anyway, fully knowing that he behaves like an a**hole when on the sauce.  One could argue that the problem drinker has an impaired will due to addiction, but it's still the drinker who chooses to use or to do something different, like get help.  Ultimately, we are responsible for our choices AND the consequences of those choices.  To me, this is what the doctrine of free will is about. Do these fundies believe in free will or not?  Did Josh choose to let the devil into his heart or not?  Why is he not responsible for the consequences of that choice?

[EmCatlyn]

This blows my mind, because it means Josh will not be held accountable for the consequences of his choices. Except, perhaps,  to the extent he let the devil come in and build that secret fortress in his heart. After that, he's off the hook.  It's like blaming the booze when an alcoholic acts out. At some point, a problem drinker makes a decision to drink anyway, fully knowing that he behaves like an a**hole when on the sauce.  One could argue that the problem drinker has an impaired will due to addiction, but it's still the drinker who chooses to use or to do something different, like get help.  Ultimately, we are responsible for our choices AND the consequences of those choices.  To me, this is what the doctrine of free will is about. Do these fundies believe in free will or not?  Did Josh choose to let the devil into his heart or not?  Why is he not responsible for the consequences of that choice?

Good question.  I am not sure it is a question of responsibility for them as much as it is a question of salvation.  He certainly made the "wrong" choice and behaved badly, but it is not because he is a bad person (they might say) but because he was weak and allowed the devil to take over. If he repents and so forth he is trying to make ammends with God, and maybe he will be saved.  And if a person is repentant, it is everyone else's duty to forgive.  Whether that means to absolve him of responsibility, I don't know.  Fundie logic doesn't always make sense.

[Catey]

If it was a really, really poopy one....

 

No I kid. I just would not want to be around him period. He creeps me out. Even on a good day, pre scandal I would not want him or his poisonous ideas anywhere near my family. He could keep his homophobic, pro life rabid hate speach far away from me. Then add on to it all the drama and no way!!

I highly doubt that he spent much time (unless a camera was close) changing any of his kids diapers so everything else aside he probably would not be up for the task.

[Dandruff]

I think Josh will be treated as a pariah for a long time.  What kind of social life can Anna expect if she stays with him?  I certainly doubt that people would be willing to drop their kids off to play with the M-kids, if he's around.

[SassyPants]

I think Anna is doing what is best at the moment.

I would hope that she is getting her ducks in a row- like getting some sort of semi-permanent BC in place and secure.

I hope that she is making a plan (I know that she is not). She needs education and to get a job.

I would be negotiating with JB- here's what I'd say:

I want a permanent separation from Josh

I will keep my mouth closed and allow you to have contact with the kids if:

You provide me with a free home, in my name, and HC insurance.

I would then open up a daycare or small school of some sort- Anna has a certification and background in that area.

I'd get on with my life.

Eventually one or the other could file for divorce.

 

[Imrlgoddess]

Scrolling through some interweb pictures of the Kellers and who all...something dawned on me...

I know Anna is stressed as all hell and that is the most logical reason to her weight loss...but.  What if that's part of the "keep him happy" bit?  If Michelle has been encouraging her to eat less or do more because she wasn't physically pleasing enough?   

UGH.  I know that's probably not it. But it popped in my head anyway.  They are messed up enough to put the idea in her head I'm sure.

[MyMilkshake]

I watched the 14 kids special on youtube about a month ago, and Josh was explaining to the cameras about needing a lot of seats for the van, etc, and he came off sounding like a teenage salesman. I don't know whether he wanted to be front and center or whether it was his parent's prompting, but he sounded so artificial it kind of stuck out to me. 
My take on Josh?  He was a kid with some problems. None of which were properly dealt with. Now he's a grownup with problems.  I don't think he ever totally bought into his parent's lifestyle and has been going through the motions for years. His employment gigs were all handed to him and he's been coasting for awhile, collecting his pay and pretending to who he needs to, but sneaking around and probably feeling entitled to, since he's stuck living some life he doesn't really care about.
 His marriage to Anna was basically an arranged marriage that he was likely pushed into. He seems to lack a genuine warmth and respect for Anna. I don't think he wanted to have a ton of kids. To me he's a guy living a life he doesn't want while pretending to be someone he isn't and never really wanted to be.

[VelociRapture]

would the thought not cross Anna's mind that if joshyboy is in t.....

I snipped this for pretty obvious reasons.

Please note that we don't speculate on the identities of Josh's unknown fifth victim, nor do we speculate on any other potential victims either. From the site rules:

DO NOT post speculation regarding the identify of any of Josh Duggar's past/future molestation victims.

Source: http://www.freejinger.org/resources/free-jinger-rules/

[EmCatlyn]

 

I snipped this for pretty obvious reasons.

Please note that we don't speculate on the identities of Josh's unknown fifth victim, nor do we speculate on any other potential victims either. From the site rules:

For what it is worth, I did not read the OP as "speculating on identities" but rather "speculating on proclivities."

We know that he molested 5 girls, that one was as young as 5 years old and that two of his sisters came forward and identified themselves as two of the victims.  There is no speculation about whether or not he molested "his sisters."  The speculation is about whether this means that he might still be a danger to children.  I

[VelociRapture]

For what it is worth, I did not read the OP as "speculating on identities" but rather "speculating on proclivities."

We know that he molested 5 girls, that one was as young as 5 years old and that two of his sisters came forward and identified themselves as two of the victims.  There is no speculation about whether or not he molested "his sisters."  The speculation is about whether this means that he might still be a danger to children.  I

I see your point, but I don't think the difference matters much. The rules clearly state there is to be no speculating on the possibility that there are other current, past, or future victims of Josh Duggar - the comment made by @sunsun39 used a specific group of minors to demonstrate their point that he could wind up committing heinous crimes in the future. Personally, I believe that falls into the not allowed speculation realm - but I'm more than happy to see if the Admins feel differently (and I will, of course, apologize for over zealousness if that is the case.)

[JoyfullyUnavailable]

I'm wondering how the M-kids are understanding this. Obviously the scandals are not for children's ears, but I'm sure they have noticed their dad missing from the family. Meredith doesn't even know her dad at this point. Not only Anna and Jpsh need real professional help, but the children really do it. As much as I snark on the families, I really wish none of this happened. 

[AngelGirl8811]

I think that Josh's molestation happened because they were the only females he had access too. The pornstar and Ashley Madison scandals show that Josh is very much into women who can give him a certain thing and it's women that he's after. 

[EmCatlyn]

I see your point, but I don't think the difference matters much. The rules clearly state there is to be no speculating on the possibility that there are other current, past, or future victims of Josh Duggar - the comment made by @sunsun39 used a specific group of minors to demonstrate their point that he could wind up committing heinous crimes in the future. Personally, I believe that falls into the not allowed speculation realm - but I'm more than happy to see if the Admins feel differently (and I will, of course, apologize for over zealousness if that is the case.)

I see your point about "specific group of minors."   I am a little confused because there have been other posts that have expressed a similar concern about that same specific group of minors and not been called on it.  Anyway, you are right to bring it to the Admin's attention and have them decide.

 

[halcionne]

I found the post by @sunsun39 deeply offensive because it was so vulgar. Members have said similar without being so disgusting about it, imo.

[EmCatlyn]

I'm wondering how the M-kids are understanding this. Obviously the scandals are not for children's ears, but I'm sure they have noticed their dad missing from the family. Meredith doesn't even know her dad at this point. Not only Anna and Jpsh need real professional help, but the children really do it. As much as I snark on the families, I really wish none of this happened. 

Meredith is the one who will be least affected until/ unless Josh's return causes pain and stress.  But the others must be confused at best.  I agree that the innocent bystanders in this clusterfuck make one wish it hadn't happened.

[Cerealgirl]

Anna may have guzzled the kool aid (and I agree with the poster who said that phrase has completely ventured from it's original meaning and is now just a figure of speech) and while I completely disagree with her militant anti abortion/gay marriage stances, she actually seems a nice woman who wants to do right by her kids. I just hope she's OK.  

Sure and the N word is ok too because it's used all the time. #sarcasm Mainly though "guzzling the kool aid" has been way over used on this topic. Now it's a cliche.

[happy atheist]

 

From the rules, which you are supposed to read before you start posting at FJ:

DO NOT post speculation regarding the identity of any of Josh Duggar's past/future molestation victims.

Let's not split hairs about the definitions of words. You're not going to get away with gross behavior by arguing technicalities. FJ is more a "spirit of the law" kind of place. Let's be mature adults who know how to not be assholes.