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Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3


happy atheist

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Josh is going to have to work for Jim Bob for at least a good decade... His name has been badly tarnished. Jim Bob will be the one providing for them.

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That's interesting to think about. What do fundies teach about a mother's duty to her children? 

The impression I get is that it's all about the dads with fundies and women are just incubators. I mean, there are no mother-son dances or purity balls, and even mother-daughter teas are rare. It's all about convincing men to be "headships" and "leaders." I guess they assume that mothers will be involved with children even if they are denigrated by their families and religious organizations, but men will only be good fathers if they can control and micromanage every aspect of family life. Too bad that didn't work for Josh.

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Yeah. I said something similar in the last thread that I would't be surprised if Anna thinks staying is actually better for the kids. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Joshley and Anna don't have as much money as people think.....and I suspect the 'headship' has control of the money. Anna doesn't have a lot of options for paid work with her lack of education and work experience and most of what she earned would get eaten up in child care for 4 kids before it sees any of her bills. Right now, Anna has free housing, food and chlldcare for her kids (the M kids are probably being used to train up the Lost Girls) in return for her 'loyalty'. Team that up with parents who have told her to 'forgive' Joshley and have raised her to not be empowered in any way shape or form and I can see why she's staying put. 

Anna may have guzzled the kool aid (and I agree with the poster who said that phrase has completely ventured from it's original meaning and is now just a figure of speech) and while I completely disagree with her militant anti abortion/gay marriage stances, she actually seems a nice woman who wants to do right by her kids. I just hope she's OK.  

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If Anna stays with Josh, then won't at least one of her SIL's have to live with them?  I don't want to believe that she'd ever leave him alone with the kids - even for five minutes.

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If Anna stays with Josh, then won't at least one of her SIL's have to live with them?  I don't want to believe that she'd ever leave him alone with the kids - even for five minutes.

"Have" to live with them?  According to whom? Neither the Duggar parents, nor Anna herself have given any sign that they see Josh as a threat to his children.  

Here on FJ we keep talking about Josh as a child molestor (which he was) and a pederast (which I don't believe he is).  But to his family he is just a horny male who, as a young teen, expressed his horniness through inappropriate touching of girls in his environment and as a married man expressed his horniness by seeking adulterous sex and consorting with prostitutes.  They are not going to worry that he will molest his children, only that he might watch porn or go off with a sinful woman or two.

If a Duggar daughter starts staying with Anna and the kids, it won't be to keep Josh from being alone with his daughters but to give Anna more time to meet Josh's needs.  My hope is that Anna will be able to satisfy him for a while and that when he again gets bored with her, he will be able to sneak away and get his jollies outside the home.  

Josh (according to his internet dating/cheating profiles) clearly prefers fully developed and experienced women to little girls.  When he molested his sisters and the 5th person as a teen, they were the only females he had access to.  If he can have women, he probably won't even think of molesting a child again.  The problem is that he might not have access to anyone except Anna, if he is supervised too carefully by his family.  And then I do think his daughters might be at risk... But Anna and the Duggars won't see it that way, I fear.

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Oh, I don't think Josh abuses her. My guess is he saw rough sex on a porn flick & it prob. excited him so he thought he'd try it w/the hooker b/c he knew Anna wouldn't go for it, never mind that she was pregnant. And I think she'd tattle on him to JB.

But Josh has also been raised to view women as property so for all we know he made Anna go through with that too. It's just gross all around.

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I don't think it has ever occurred to Anna to leave. She might be hurt and upset by what Josh did but the idea of starting over without him hasn't crossed her mind. And it's not because she's worried about her eternal salvation or how she will support her children or her...she simply doesn't want to leave. She's exactly where she wants to be...you could hand her a check for $20 million and a notarized memo from Jesus himself that she'd still be considered a proper Christ devotee if she left and she say, "No, thanks. I'm fine where I am."

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I don't think it has ever occurred to Anna to leave. She might be hurt and upset by what Josh did but the idea of starting over without him hasn't crossed her mind. And it's not because she's worried about her eternal salvation or how she will support her children or her...she simply doesn't want to leave. She's exactly where she wants to be...you could hand her a check for $20 million and a notarized memo from Jesus himself that she'd still be considered a proper Christ devotee if she left and she say, "No, thanks. I'm fine where I am."

Agree.   I always felt that Anna still wants to stay with Josh.   She's hoping that he will be "fixed" by his "rehab" and will come back to resume their life together as it once was.   I don't she realizes that until he comes back that life will not be the same even if he is truly a reformed, changed man (which he won't be).  She will have to go through that and live it  for herself.   Leaving is not an option, she's been raised not to think of that as an option plus she has no true idea of the scope of Josh's problems.  

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"Have" to live with them?  According to whom? Neither the Duggar parents, nor Anna herself have given any sign that they see Josh as a threat to his children.  

Here on FJ we keep talking about Josh as a child molestor (which he was) and a pederast (which I don't believe he is).  But to his family he is just a horny male who, as a young teen, expressed his horniness through inappropriate touching of girls in his environment and as a married man expressed his horniness by seeking adulterous sex and consorting with prostitutes.  They are not going to worry that he will molest his children, only that he might watch porn or go off with a sinful woman or two.

If a Duggar daughter starts staying with Anna and the kids, it won't be to keep Josh from being alone with his daughters but to give Anna more time to meet Josh's needs.  My hope is that Anna will be able to satisfy him for a while and that when he again gets bored with her, he will be able to sneak away and get his jollies outside the home.  

Josh (according to his internet dating/cheating profiles) clearly prefers fully developed and experienced women to little girls.  When he molested his sisters and the 5th person as a teen, they were the only females he had access to.  If he can have women, he probably won't even think of molesting a child again.  The problem is that he might not have access to anyone except Anna, if he is supervised too carefully by his family.  And then I do think his daughters might be at risk... But Anna and the Duggars won't see it that way, I fear.

I agree with this. I'm in the camp that thinks his victims were opportunistic.

Frankly, I think Josh leaving would be the best thing for all involved at this point. (But continuing to visit his children.) But I doubt that will happen.

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What if Josh comes back & tells Anna he wants his freedom. I can see him doing that.

I agree. I sometimes think that maybe Josh is trying to separate himself from his parents by just being so disgusting to them that they will realize that they cannot save him? I have this feeling that there might be something more with him than what we see. I think it is either mental illness and/or some substance abuse (my guess something that is legal in itself such as pain killers). Something about his looks from the time just before this broke gives me a feeling of being on drugs. I don't know for sure of course but I have on several occasions been able to figure out that someone was on drugs before this was generally know and I get a similar feeling from him. 

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I think Josh looked bloated, poorly groomed, and haggard in some of the most recent photos.  It could be depression.  I hadn't thought about opiates.  Could be, particularly if Michelle uses them.  He shouldn't be able to get/use pills at RU.  It will be interesting to see what he looks like when he resurfaces.  

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Leaving must seem scary to her, but she needs to think logically about this. Is Josh going to change for good? Probably not. It's more than likely going to happen again and she's been manipulated into thinking it's her fault. If her non Gothard siblings have offered her a support system, she should take it. It won't be easy, she'll have to work hard and may need to be on assistance for awhile, but isn't that better than having Smugger as a husband? Then being someone's sexual play thing and having to wonder in the back of her mind if her daughters are truly safe? 

As my mother says, a leopard doesn't change it's spots. He may eventually emerge & feel somewhat contrite, but it's like a drug/gambling addiction; it's the thrill of the chase (so to speak), & he most likely doesn't want to give that up. Not that I know what's in his mind (& I'm just as glad to not be a mind reader), of course, but that's what it could be like.

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What if Josh comes back & tells Anna he wants his freedom. I can see him doing that.

I doubt that Josh will do that--not right away, at least.  But if/when he does, I bet all of us will give three cheers.  It would really be the best possible solution for all concerned, better even than Anna leaving.  If Anna left, she would have to bear the disapproval of people she cares for and depends on.  And Jim Bob might be unkind in his treatment of her and the kids.  But if Josh leaves, no one will blame Anna too much; she will feel like a failure (she already does) and some people may look down on her because she couldn't keep her man, but mostly they will feel sorry for her because Josh is obviously possessed by Satan in a special way.

Anna could get child support.  Even if it is a pittance because Josh won't have much of a job, it will be something.  And Jim Bob will help out.  I would guess he wants the grandkids nearby, so he would probably provide housing and help with a few bills and the M-kids could hang out at the TTC and Anna would have help caring for them.    And there will be no more M-Kids.  Those four will get enough love and attention, not only from Anna herself but from the extended family.  JD and Josiah and Joseph can share the father-image, and they all be part of a community.

Down the road, after she has recovered from the shock, Anna may find that she wants to explore a more fundie-light life, like her sisters and her brother.  If she does, the kids might be sent to a regular school or at least get better homeschooling if she follows a better curriculum. (There are some reasonably good faith-based homeschooling curricula out there. I have students at the university who were homeschooled by religious parents and they had perfectly good educations.)  And she may find a nice fundie-light headship who values her and treats her and her kids decently.  Who knows.  Anything has got to be better than staying with Josh.

But I don't see Josh leaving her yet.  If he didn't do it shortly after the scandal, in the first month or so of RU, he is probably going to stick it out and come back ready to bear witness to his new salvation, and Anna will be a necessary prop for his "I've been saved and I am truly Godly again" act.

(My fantasy about Josh's is that he will quietly get a vasectomy before he comes home.  But I don't think that is likely either.)

 

 .

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What if Josh comes back & tells Anna he wants his freedom. I can see him doing that.

Josh will do whatever is best for HIM.  You can bet on that.

If there is $$$ to be gained in going back humbled, "repentant", and "changed" to his wife and family, that is what he will do.  Personally, I think this will be the first route he tries.  Joshy boy doesn't exactly have an education or marketable skills or a real employment history outside of his family/fame.  The only jobs he's qualified for are either jobs that wont support a family of 6 on one income or "not good enough" for him.  

If there's no $$$ to be made from a repentance story or when that money dries up, he'll drop his marriage of convenience (which I honestly believe is what Anna was for him) and go it alone/go after someone who can satisfy his needs.   

Josh and Anna WILL divorce, eventually.  It's just a matter of how much Josh will put Anna through before that happens. 

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How great would it be if Anna was just able to know what she just doesn't know.

 

If she left she could make herself a small fortune with appearances and a book deal.

 

She would be welcomed with open arms with all those little kids in an open and less restrictive fellowship community.

She could learn the joy of soft yoga pants when scooting around after all those wee ones.

Imagine all the great binge watching available if you have never seen any of the great movies or series of our times.

There are endless better endings out there for her and most likely for her kids as well.

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How great would it be if Anna was just able to know what she just doesn't know.

 

If she left she could make herself a small fortune with appearances and a book deal.

 

She would be welcomed with open arms with all those little kids in an open and less restrictive fellowship community.

She could learn the joy of soft yoga pants when scooting around after all those wee ones.

Imagine all the great binge watching available if you have never seen any of the great movies or series of our times.

There are endless better endings out there for her and most likely for her kids as well.

Oooh, this sounds so beautiful and so full of promise! I know it won't be this -- even if she were to leave, there would be so much she would still have to overcome, the habits of a lifetime of fundie-dom, but wouldn't it be great if she were to get to really live?

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How great would it be if Anna was just able to know what she just doesn't know.

I wish Anna knew how many people are thinking about her and wishing her well.  I think she'd be astonished to know how much sympathetic concern people have for  her.

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I feel the opposite. I believe Josh is a threat to children. His upbringing had nothing to do with this. Child molesters come from all walks of life.

Josh had access too females when other families visited and at ATI conventions. So the whole lack of access to girls/women his own age, doesn't fly. Besides, one of the victims was only 5 years old.

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Starcasm has an article titled Is Anna Duggar Considering a Divorce from Josh?

Here's the link:

http://starcasm.net/archives/335293

It's Starcasm so take it with a grain of salt.

But here is the highlight of the article, "Josh, said that report’s source, is so worried that Anna will leave him that he is now convinced she will stay if he can persuade her they should have another child together.”

I really hope that Anna says no to another M child. However, I don't have much hope since Anna seems to have baby fever. People in troubled marriages usually think a new baby will keep them together, but it doesn't work.

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