Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[EmCatlyn]

There have been no sightings that I'm aware of, but it appears as though the lawsuit papers were delivered to Josh at RU in Rockville.   There's a lot of evidence that points to him being at RU at least up to the week before Thanksgiving, and no evidence thus far that he was at home for the holiday.  The lack of actual sightings at RU is odd, though, and it suggests that Josh is getting special handling to protect his privacy.

Given the reformatory nature of the RU program, I'm a little surprised someone as entitled as Josh seems to be has stuck it out at Jesus boot camp this long.  My guess is that JB told Josh that he wasn't welcome back home until he did his time at RU and completed the program.  If Josh sticks it out, he should be resurfacing sometime late next February or early March.

I just wanted to add that there was apparently an instance when the Friday night service included a prayer for "our brother Josh."  (This was reported in the article that claimed to have pictures of Josh at some RU sports event. I don't think it was Josh in the pictures, but the prayer for him sounded like it could be accurate reporting.)

Whether Josh went there voluntarily or under duress from JB--and he may have been more than happy to get away from his weeping wife and furious father--Josh is probably now thoroughly "broken" by the endoctrination at that place.  (Whether it will "take" for good, I don't know.  I doubt it because Josh is fundamentally unsuited for the life his parents expect him to lead, and he has problems tha pray therapy won't address. But I think he will try.)

[OodOnTheLoo]

A positive aspect of the RU program is it's emphasis on work.  Josh could use RU to build his skills to become independently employed. A more independent husband is a negative for the survival of the marriage, imo.

except that it is manual labor not exactly skill building, degree earning, edumacation type stuff.  Josh knows how to do this stuff, it's just always been beneath him.  Hard stuff is for the girls and his younger brothers.  Josh does some but he is usually in a Foreman type position or using it as a photo op...look at me,  I'm mowing the lawn, sitting at a big desk, shuffling papers...

he has nothing but d list celebrity.  Daddy owns him.

[halcionne]

 

There have been no sightings that I'm aware of, but it appears as though the lawsuit papers were delivered to Josh at RU in Rockville.   There's a lot of evidence that points to him being at RU at least up to the week before Thanksgiving, and no evidence thus far that he was at home for the holiday.  The lack of actual sightings at RU is odd, though, and it suggests that Josh is getting special handling to protect his privacy.

Given the reformatory nature of the RU program, I'm a little surprised someone as entitled as Josh seems to be has stuck it out at Jesus boot camp this long.  My guess is that JB told Josh that he wasn't welcome back home until he did his time at RU and completed the program.  If Josh sticks it out, he should be resurfacing sometime late next February or early March.

Duggar Air flew to Rockford on November 11 and there is footage suggesting that maybe, possibly, a Josh-shaped person was onboard the return flight to Springdale. It's not much, but it's interesting that the lawsuit was reported a week later, with Josh's address being listed as Rockford on the complaint. I just checked the In Touch article and the filing date wasn't included in the pages of the complaint the published, but the timing matches up nicely, imo. So I feel like he's back in NWA at this time.

[Pretzel]

Whatever happens, I hope for Anna's sake that there won't be another MBlessing and that her "marriage" will end in a divorce. Anna was so terribly naive when she met and got engaged to Josh. She became smug once they were newlyweds and Josh's smugness rubbed off on her. She became likeable when she gave birth to baby Michael on the toilet. While her douche-band took a nap, she was in excruciating pain and still, she cuddled Mackynzie, breathed through contractions and tried to make their little family run as smoothly as possible. I have no doubt her trust in God is real and that she now believes it's her sin that found her with her husband ruining her and her children's life. 

Anna, there's a man out there who will love you, cherish you, kiss the ground you walk on, who'll love your kids and who'll want to have more kids with you. But honey, that guy is not Josh Duggar and you won't find that guy under IBLP's roof.

[EmCatlyn]

A positive aspect of the RU program is it's emphasis on work.  Josh could use RU to build his skills to become independently employed. A more independent husband is a negative for the survival of the marriage, imo.

Someone I was talking to recently about the "fake rehab" at RU made the interesting point that by filling the day with prayer and work, the program is creating new habits.  Even though they are not being encouraged to work through their emotional problems, filling their days with worthwhile activity may help them with a sense of purpose and self-worth.  This person I was talking to is an atheist (or at best a deist), a heavy user of recreational drugs and booze, and a maverick who refuses to stick to a nine-to-five job. (He makes a decent living free-lancing.)  Yet he saw a benefit to a prayer-based. "hard labor" program.

While it is true, as others have pointed out, that Josh already has the limited range of practical skills necessary for the kind of work people do at RU, it may be that the demanding schedule and the group expectations may have some benefit, if not in curing his horniness (a more difficult task) then reaffirming habits of regular work and effort.   -- Or maybe not, but my friend (from his own experience of screwing up his life, in part) saw possible benefits for Josh.  For Anna's sake, I hope my friend was right.

[Drala]

People who do time in prison can and do turn punishment to their advantage; seems like Josh may take something positive from RU if he's inclined to change. To quote Viktor Frankl, Everything can be taken from a person but one thing, the last of human freedoms, the freedom to choose one's attitude in any given situation, to choose one's own way.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I have felt badly for Anna. I feel terrible for what she has gone through. The public humiliation she has endured (and will endure forever, always being known as the wife of the child molester) and the betrayal, the lies....it is horrendous. That being said, I am now at a point where I believe she is a willing participant in her pain. Only she can change her life and she certainly should. She is choosing to stay with someone who has very little respect for her. Staying with Josh is setting herself up for failure. And raising her daughters to grow up so that they, too, will be uneducated, submissive, and trapped in these kinds of marriages, well it makes me sick, honestly.

[Dandruff]

A positive aspect of the RU program is it's emphasis on work.  Josh could use RU to build his skills to become independently employed. A more independent husband is a negative for the survival of the marriage, imo.

I can imagine him employed at RU.

[EmCatlyn]

I have felt badly for Anna. I feel terrible for what she has gone through. The public humiliation she has endured (and will endure forever, always being known as the wife of the child molester) and the betrayal, the lies....it is horrendous. That being said, I am now at a point where I believe she is a willing participant in her pain. Only she can change her life and she certainly should. She is choosing to stay with someone who has very little respect for her. Staying with Josh is setting herself up for failure. And raising her daughters to grow up so that they, too, will be uneducated, submissive, and trapped in these kinds of marriages, well it makes me sick, honestly.

I feel sorry for Anna because she doesn't know any better.  I feel sorry for her because she seems a decent person who takes responsibility for her kids and has borne a lot of humiliation ( beginning with the filming of her labor/delivery) with dignity.

That being said, why is everyone so surprised that she remains committed to the ideals she was raised with?  She cannot leave Josh because (a) she probably still loves him, (b) she is under too much emotional pressure from people whose guidance she trusts, (c) she has no idea how to go about taking care of her kids by herself and (d) she believes that it would be a sin to desert her husband instead of forgiving him if he is " truly repentant."

She doesn't have any other framework for evaluating her experience. Her education was limited, and she is of no more than ordinary intelligence.  She has not been taught to think and judge for herself.  She does not realize that what she is suffering is partly the result of her limited education, that a different education would to some extent free her daughters without necessarily endangering their immortal souls.

To be angry at her for not seeing the flaws in her education and faith makes as much sense as being angry at an ordinary fifth grader for not being able to figure out a calculus problem. 

This isn't to say that I let Anna off the hook for what may happen in her children's lives.  Staying in that marriage and raising her daughters in their cult, and having more babies by Josh is wrong. And in the end, she is responsible even though she acted/ is acting, in ignorance.  I feel sorry for her, and I hope that at some point she will (a) stop loving Josh and (b) realize that if he is not truly reformed she has no obligation to stay with him and that for the sake of her children she needs to leave.

But I don't blame her staying; I just hold her responsible (along with Josh) for what happens to the M kids.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I know that I wanted to stay in a marriage "for the kids" and that my very religious mother and many friends encouraged me to. I was not going to leave. THANK GOD HE left ME! It doesn't surprise me that she isn't leaving, but it does sadden me. She would be judged. And she would get the added bonus of believing God would be mad at her. Plenty of people do leave these kinds of situations. Her own sister did. Some people challenge their belief systems but Anna chooses not to. I don't think she is incapable. Anyhow, it is a sucky situation for those kids and the future half dozen she will probably bring into the situation, thinking she is doing the Lord's work.

[EmCatlyn]

I know that I wanted to stay in a marriage "for the kids" and that my very religious mother and many friends encouraged me to. I was not going to leave. THANK GOD HE left ME! It doesn't surprise me that she isn't leaving, but it does sadden me. She would be judged. And she would get the added bonus of believing God would be mad at her. Plenty of people do leave these kinds of situations. Her own sister did. Some people challenge their belief systems but Anna chooses not to. I don't think she is incapable. Anyhow, it is a sucky situation for those kids and the future half dozen she will probably bring into the situation, thinking she is doing the Lord's work.

Yes it is sad.  Maybe she will be "lucky" and Josh will leave her or show his lack of repentance so flagrantly that she will not be blamed for separating herself and her kids from him.  Hopefully before they get to M6--it would be too much to ask that it happen before M5.

As for Anna's sibling, what exactly is Rebekah's situation?  I know she had gone fundie lite with her husband who was also leaving a fundie family. And I have heard that she's been getting a divorce.  Do we know the reason?  Is it mutual or is he leaving her or vice-versa?

[BadMurphy]

but it will be proof positive God approves of their choices and is blessing them.

Since everyone else is speculating, I see Josh coming back home and going on lockdown.  He will be provided a home without wifi. I. Wouldn't be surprised if JimBob installs something to block the signal. He will be given a flip phone of shame.  He will have an accountability buddy wherever he goes.  JimBob will have him "working" for Duggar properties just like all the other kids.

 Josh will hate his life but he won't go anywhere.  If he hits the lecture circuit it will only be after JimBob and Mechelle share their story.   Chances are only the girls will be given speaking engagements but they will dry up because they refuse to do anything but repeat the same, stupid script we are going to hear on the TLC specials.

Josh will continue to hate his life and resent Anna.  It's here that I am fearful for Anna and the kids.  We will have a guy with a HUGE ego trapped, shamed, and frustrated.  It's got to come come out somehow.

THIS. Men are horrible when they get like this, it will turn him into an angry spiteful monster who blames everything on anyone else. He's going to make Anna's life miserable too when she's the one who will be continuing to care for him and deserves it the least. 

[jqlgoblue]

Well, I continue to be in the Josh will go back and the marriage, etc. etc. won't fall apart until later camp, BUT here is to hoping Josh spends his time at RU hatching an escape plan instead of giving in to the mumbo jumbo.

[Guest]

Imo, Anna is a victim.  These fundie girls are basically raised to be victims.  I do think she could change that, if she wanted to, and make different choices for her kids.  But she has to realize it first, and I don't think she's there yet.  Maybe someday...

[RosyDaisy]

It's not just Anna and their kids I'm worried about.

[Pretzel]

It's not just Anna and their kids I'm worried about.

Then who else are you worried about?

[MakeItSo]

Then who else are you worried about?

wondering the same thing @RosyDaisy

[gustava]

I'm actually concerned about Josh.  There's no way he can go back to pretending to be loving husband, good fundie.  Yet how can he go forward? 

One option is if he and Anna decide together to go fundie light, but how will he earn a living.

He's trapped.  Yes, it's of his own making but he has a wife and four children who are suffering.

[FreeCalifornia]

I'm actually concerned about Josh.  There's no way he can go back to pretending to be loving husband, good fundie.  Yet how can he go forward? 

One option is if he and Anna decide together to go fundie light, but how will he earn a living.

He's trapped.  Yes, it's of his own making but he has a wife and four children who are suffering.

They are surly suffering emotionally from the many ways this situation caused them pain, but we can't say for sure they are suffering financially. 

So far the Duggars *appear* to be supporting Anna (we don't know for sure if they are paying her bills, but she seems to be around them and I for one doubt they'd leave her unable to support herself). If they stick by Josh they can likely bring him into managing properties or some other business venture.

IMO Josh trying to stick by his wife, kids, and extended family brings him the most support and he'd likely do just fine if he could actually follow the rules set by their beliefs. The question is if he wants to follow those rules (or is even capable of it). For Josh the hard part comes in supporting himself and his family without the support of other Duggars. 

[vienna]

According to a source Josh has it all figured out: Renew wedding vows and make another Baby. Sounds unfortunately so much like a Duggar-solution that I am willing to believe it is true...

 

 

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/11/30/anna-josh-duggar-renewing-wedding-vows-marriage-cheating/

[EmCatlyn]

I'm actually concerned about Josh.  There's no way he can go back to pretending to be loving husband, good fundie.  Yet how can he go forward? 

One option is if he and Anna decide together to go fundie light, but how will he earn a living.

He's trapped.  Yes, it's of his own making but he has a wife and four children who are suffering.

I can't imagine that Josh (or Anna) would get anything out of leaving the Duggar fold and going "Fundie lite."  It wouldn't increase job opportunities and wouldn't solve his main problem.  As far as I know, "Fundie lite" doesn't encourage philandering, porn or polyamory.

Now I could see Josh being attracted by the Fundie LDS, who practice polygamy.  But I would like to think that Anna would draw the line at sister-wives.

 

[AmazonGrace]

According to a source Josh has it all figured out: Renew wedding vows and make another Baby. Sounds unfortunately so much like a Duggar-solution that I am willing to believe it is true...

 

 

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/11/30/anna-josh-duggar-renewing-wedding-vows-marriage-cheating/

Bah humbug, if he didn't mean it the first time why should Anna trust he means them now.

[vienna]

Bah humbug, if he didn't mean it the first time why should Anna trust he means them now.

 

Why do we expect any reasonable thinking or logic from them? Of course his ideas (if they are true) are as stupid as possible from an objective point of view. I would even consider them as a sign of absolut denial of the actual situation and the easiest way to start as a new man and new husband the minute he leaves the brainwashcenter.

But as ridiculous as it all sounds, it sounds very much like Duggar-thinking to me.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

 

Why do we expect any reasonable thinking or logic from them? Of course his ideas (if they are true) are as stupid as possible from an objective point of view. I would even consider them as a sign of absolut denial of the actual situation and the easiest way to start as a new man and new husband the minute he leaves the brainwashcenter.

But as ridiculous as it all sounds, it sounds very much like Duggar-thinking to me.

I'm sure it's also Duggar thinking in the sense that they can $ell coverage of this to People, or hope for another TLC $pecial Epi$ode. #grifterlife

[JenniferJuniper]

I absolutely can see TLC creating a Very Special Special centered around the new Josh and the renewal of wedding vows.

TLC has no scruples whatsoever and the Duggars are shameless fame whores.