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Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3


happy atheist

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What if Josh comes back & tells Anna he wants his freedom. I can see him doing that.

He's too much of a coward. I don't think he has the balls.

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Are we certain that Josh is "addicted to pornography"?  As others have pointed out, looking at Kim Kardashian would be considered porno in their circles. 

 

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I think Anna is doing what is best at the moment.

I would hope that she is getting her ducks in a row- like getting some sort of semi-permanent BC in place and secure.

I hope that she is making a plan (I know that she is not). She needs education and to get a job.

I would be negotiating with JB- here's what I'd say:

I want a permanent separation from Josh

I will keep my mouth closed and allow you to have contact with the kids if:

You provide me with a free home, in my name, and HC insurance.

I would then open up a daycare or small school of some sort- Anna has a certification and background in that area.

I'd get on with my life.

Eventually one or the other could file for divorce.

 

I went through a marital maelstrom slightly similar in nature. And it played out in a very public way in our community. A series of scandals revealed that my husband had a very dark, hidden side to him. I was completely blindsided. A stay at home mom, totally dependent on him. Complete hypocrisy. A sociopath. You get the picture. It is still the event that has most impacted my life, and continues to be, sadly. I cannot begin to imagine this poor brainwashed young woman handling this stress. 

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I went through a marital maelstrom slightly similar in nature. And it played out in a very public way in our community. A series of scandals revealed that my husband had a very dark, hidden side to him. I was completely blindsided. A stay at home mom, totally dependent on him. Complete hypocrisy. A sociopath. You get the picture. It is still the event that has most impacted my life, and continues to be, sadly. I cannot begin to imagine this poor brainwashed young woman handling this stress. 

I hope you are doing better and take good care of yourself. No one deserves to go through such things but life is sometimes cruel. Best wishes.

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Are we certain that Josh is "addicted to pornography"?  As others have pointed out, looking at Kim Kardashian would be considered porno in their circles. 

 

I wondered that too. But went as far as cheating on his wife with prostitutes more than once. The "porn" is the least of his problems.

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I went through a marital maelstrom slightly similar in nature. And it played out in a very public way in our community. A series of scandals revealed that my husband had a very dark, hidden side to him. I was completely blindsided. A stay at home mom, totally dependent on him. Complete hypocrisy. A sociopath. You get the picture. It is still the event that has most impacted my life, and continues to be, sadly. I cannot begin to imagine this poor brainwashed young woman handling this stress. 

Well, at least she's not homeless, jobless AND penniless. Having a roof over she and her kids' heads and food in their bellies has to relieve some of the immediate stress. Imagine if she had to fend for herself+ 4 young kids  too.

I can see her staying put for the moment- but damn, once that A-hole is back, what a nightmare.

Good luck to you and your children. Hope it all ends up being OK in the end.

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Are we certain that Josh is "addicted to pornography"?  As others have pointed out, looking at Kim Kardashian would be considered porno in their circles. 

 

A fair point. However, if the prostitute's story has even a kernel of truth (and I'd bet on that it does), chances are he did indeed look at real porn, and likely a number of times before he decided to attempt IRL. 

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Josh molested his sisters and a five year old girl. No way in hell is that just a case of lack of access to girls his own age. Were talking about a five year old! There is no theory under which that is due to a lack of access to girls his own age...none. Stop making dumb ass excuses for Josh's behavior. It's starting to sound like people are experimenting with the kool-aid.

However, JB and Michelle are responsible for what happened after. They should have reported the molestations and gotten Josh and his victims help...real help.

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I'm going to take a bet and say that Josh looked at a LOT of porn before hiring a prostitute, hence the Duggars don't feel like they're lying about what he is in rehab for. I would also bet that he watches a lot of porn videos as well as looking at images, and has several online subscriptions. I also bet that has been in and out of strip clubs for awhile now, and that Jim Bob (as rumored) facilitated that particular hobby.

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I'm going to take a bet and say that Josh looked at a LOT of porn before hiring a prostitute, hence the Duggars don't feel like they're lying about what he is in rehab for. I would also bet that he watches a lot of porn videos as well as looking at images, and has several online subscriptions. I also bet that has been in and out of strip clubs for awhile now, and that Jim Bob (as rumored) facilitated that particular hobby.

Well, that's what being brainwashed by Gothardisms will do for a person!!  Well, said,, @16strong

 

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I'm going to take a bet and say that Josh looked at a LOT of porn before hiring a prostitute, hence the Duggars don't feel like they're lying about what he is in rehab for.

I wonder when he had the time to watch all the porn....  I highly doubt he did it at the FRC office.  Coming home to Anna and the 2/3 Mkids had to have been pretty chaotic.  I guess he could have allowed Anna to go to bed early and that's when he did his porn prowl.

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On his phone while 'staying late in the office' or 'on a business trip' ? I mean if he found time to see a sex worker, watching the essential parts of a porn video must not be that hard to fit in his schedule.

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[ I just posted this in the "Which Duggar will escape first" thread but I think it's relevant here ]


In Anna's specific circumstances I think she may be better off staying with Josh.

She probably can't move home to stay with her family - It doesn't sound like the Kellers, save for maybe her brother, would be too happy about her divorcing her headship. I'm not sure they'd accept her back with open arms, and if they did take her in, it would likely be under a significant amount of disdain. Plus, the kids are Duggars too. They have copious numbers of aunts and uncles and cousins who, honestly, they deserve to have a relationship with, regardless of how much of a fuck their father is.

She's not going to get re-married to another fundie man - She's damaged goods within the fundie community, she's not going to find another fundie man to marry her and take care of her kids (who, by the way, wouldn't be HIS kids). There are enough unmarried, virginal fundie women out there that Anna, baggage and all, is not going to be swept off her feet by some young Gothard fella.

She won't marry outside the faith - I think the chances of her leaving the fundie south and marrying someone outside of the cult are basically zero. She grew up in this, it's her whole life, I really do think that she believes the fundie viewpoints to her core (a la Jill),  and she's probably convinced that at some level, Josh's infidelity was her own fault. She believes that she and Josh are joined as "one" in God's eyes, they have four children together... I just don't see her leaving.

She won't do it on her own - She was raised to be a helpmeet, she is completely uneducated, she is all but unemployable, and she's got FOUR young children to feed. By Duggar numbers, four kids is nothing - but by everyone else's standards, and even for women with jobs who were taught to be self-reliant and independent, that's a lot of kids to raise as a single mother with no income and no support system.

I really think that the best of many bad options here is just to suck it up and stay with Josh, and I think she'll likely come to the same conclusion. Hopefully, Josh will have stopped drinking the fundie kool-aid by this point and they'll be put in a good position to move forward together in a more measured, rational way.

Sorry if that's an unpopular opinion.

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I think that's pretty spot-on. She's stuck btw. a rock & a hard place. I would like to see the show go on just so we can get an idea of what she is doing.

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[ I just posted this in the "Which Duggar will escape first" thread but I think it's relevant here ]


In Anna's specific circumstances I think she may be better off staying with Josh.

She probably can't move home to stay with her family - It doesn't sound like the Kellers, save for maybe her brother, would be too happy about her divorcing her headship. I'm not sure they'd accept her back with open arms, and if they did take her in, it would likely be under a significant amount of disdain. Plus, the kids are Duggars too. They have copious numbers of aunts and uncles and cousins who, honestly, they deserve to have a relationship with, regardless of how much of a fuck their father is.

She's not going to get re-married to another fundie man - She's damaged goods within the fundie community, she's not going to find another fundie man to marry her and take care of her kids (who, by the way, wouldn't be HIS kids). There are enough unmarried, virginal fundie women out there that Anna, baggage and all, is not going to be swept off her feet by some young Gothard fella.

She won't marry outside the faith - I think the chances of her leaving the fundie south and marrying someone outside of the cult are basically zero. She grew up in this, it's her whole life, I really do think that she believes the fundie viewpoints to her core (a la Jill),  and she's probably convinced that at some level, Josh's infidelity was her own fault. She believes that she and Josh are joined as "one" in God's eyes, they have four children together... I just don't see her leaving.

She won't do it on her own - She was raised to be a helpmeet, she is completely uneducated, she is all but unemployable, and she's got FOUR young children to feed. By Duggar numbers, four kids is nothing - but by everyone else's standards, and even for women with jobs who were taught to be self-reliant and independent, that's a lot of kids to raise as a single mother with no income and no support system.

I really think that the best of many bad options here is just to suck it up and stay with Josh, and I think she'll likely come to the same conclusion. Hopefully, Josh will have stopped drinking the fundie kool-aid by this point and they'll be put in a good position to move forward together in a more measured, rational way.

Sorry if that's an unpopular opinion.

I see your points completely.  Anna's options are not great no matter what she does.   I can see she will not leave Josh, simply because she was raised that being a helpmeet is one of her main missions in life, she doesn't see any other options outside of being wife and mother.    This situation with Josh has not changed that.  

Don't see any Gothard type wanting to marry her but someone outside of the faith may be willing.  The problem is that Anna wouldn't consider anyone outside of her faith. 

In a way, Anna is trapped not just by her asshole husband's choices, she's trapped by her own upbringing.

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Good points about why It would be easier for Anna to stay with Josh have been brought up, but one point I noticed is the mention of her being damaged goods and unlikely to find another fundie man to re-marry. I don't think she needs to remarry. Everyone deserves love but it doesn't mean that everyone should be in a relationship. She might not even want another husband if she and Josh spilt. It would be hard for her to support her family, at the very least she would be entitled to alimony and child support which would help a lot. I just hope she finds happiness. It's my fear she never will be provided the opportunity to feel both happy and secure again.  

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It would be hard for her to support her family, at the very least she would be entitled to alimony and child support which would help a lot. 

Being entitled to child support or alimony is one thing - actually seeing any of that money is something completely different.

The fact that JB sold Josh's house to a friend for $1 as soon as Joshgate happened tells me that they're not stupid, and they're sheltering most of their money. And that's if they even have much left after the show got cancelled - don't forget, the family still has to feed and clothe 16 kids, and indirectly support two sons-in-law, and 5 grandchildren. People think they have unlimited money - I don't think they do.  

And even if they do have secret money, it would be awfully easy to convince a judge that they're strapped for cash. There's probable cause here. I don't think JB would pay Anna a nickel if she divorced his son. I think he might give some token form of help to the kids, like offering to have them over at their house and babysit them, but that's all. Don't forget, this isn't exactly the most divorce-friendly family - or state, for that matter.

TLC isn't on the hook for any of this; they owe no duty of care to Anna or her kids, they're not going to pay a dime more than they have to. They profit off of the Duggars, and the best thing they can literally do for her is to include her in the "Counting On" specials so that she gets paid for them - which, by the way, they're doing.

 

Source: I'm in law school.

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Being entitled to child support or alimony is one thing - actually seeing any of that money is something completely different.

The fact that JB sold Josh's house to a friend for $1 as soon as Joshgate happened tells me that they're not stupid, and they're sheltering most of their money. And that's if they even have much left after the show got cancelled - don't forget, the family still has to feed and clothe 16 kids, and indirectly support two sons-in-law, and 5 grandchildren. People think they have unlimited money - I don't think they do.  

And even if they do have secret money, it would be awfully easy to convince a judge that they're strapped for cash. There's probable cause here. I don't think JB would pay Anna a nickel if she divorced his son. I think he might give some token form of help to the kids, like offering to have them over at their house and babysit them, but that's all. Don't forget, this isn't exactly the most divorce-friendly family - or state, for that matter.

TLC isn't on the hook for any of this; they owe no duty of care to Anna or her kids, they're not going to pay a dime more than they have to. They profit off of the Duggars, and the best thing they can literally do for her is to include her in the "Counting On" specials so that she gets paid for them - which, by the way, they're doing.

 

Source: I'm in law school.

I agree. I have worked in family law practice in the past (in Canada, paralegal) and I understand that you cannot get blood from a stone. I'm just saying she would be entitled to it, whether he pays it or not, whether he is garnisheed, loses his drivers license or whatever remedies for payment the state makes, and I'm sure he will not go forever without some sort of income. I'm obviously not familiar with each states laws, but if she were to separate and relocate to Florida where her family is, could she not eventually file for divorce in that state? Would it be more favorable there? She would also have her brother to help her for a while withstanding his offer is still on the table. Point is either way (stay or leave) she is a going to have shitty consequences.

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I'm obviously not familiar with each states laws, but if she were to separate and relocate to Florida where her family is, could she not eventually file for divorce in that state? Would it be more favorable there?

Hilarious! I'm a law student in Canada too so we're both informed yet a bit out of our element here. I love a good educated opinion on the internet.

I think it's (very) likely that Florida would have more generous laws than Arkansas, but moving back to Florida would mean separating the M'kids from a LOT of their family... I'm not sure she'd want to do that, for their sake.

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I'm going to take a bet and say that Josh looked at a LOT of porn before hiring a prostitute, hence the Duggars don't feel like they're lying about what he is in rehab for. I would also bet that he watches a lot of porn videos as well as looking at images, and has several online subscriptions. I also bet that has been in and out of strip clubs for awhile now, and that Jim Bob (as rumored) facilitated that particular hobby.

No doubt about it. You don't go directly from shielding your eyes at the sight of a woman in a miniskirt to paying a porn star to have sex with you without a couple stops at PornHub in between. 

I think he watches a LOT of porn as well. I am still undecided if he's acting out of sexual repression or is a sex addict though. 

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No doubt about it. You don't go directly from shielding your eyes at the sight of a woman in a miniskirt to paying a porn star to have sex with you without a couple stops at PornHub in between. 

I think he watches a LOT of porn as well. I am still undecided if he's acting out of sexual repression or is a sex addict though. 

Perhaps both! I can imagine how sexual repression can lead to a sex addiction. I assume by sexual repression we are talking about his upbringing. Nike! 

I'm not entirely convinced he is an actual sex addict.

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Florida laws are a LOT more liberal than Arkansas. Hubby and I were married in Florida and through a few of our spats we looked into divorce when we lived there. We almost did it here in Arkansas too. Arkansas being so darn religion based you have to jump through a LOT of hoops, though Anna has enough grounds for both child support and spousal support. The child support rates in Florida are significantly higher than they are in Arkansas.

The problem with anything Anna does to make money right now is that its considered marital income. If she gets $50K for an appearance or an offer for a few million to do a tell-all then Josh is entitled to half. She'd be better off divorcing Josh then using her "celebrity" to get herself and the kids established.

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I think when Josh was young he knew about certain images. But once he hit DC he was introduced to the real deal. The politicians & aides do business in those clubs,  I don't think dude had a chance....I will never believe he's "addicted". No more than any other red blooded individual who likes to look at boobs. He was introduced to as life he never knew existed till he was a grown man. Now he's got to reconcile the idea that admiring beauty is evil & beautiful women who entertain for money are all whores. 

It doesn't matter what he ever tries to do again, he can't leave the compound & live a normal life.... He will stay married to a woman he probably cares for but doesn't necessarily love, in a life that holds him back from any inner growth. His parents have permanently retarded his ability to be a healthy adult.

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Are we certain that Josh is "addicted to pornography"?  As others have pointed out, looking at Kim Kardashian would be considered porno in their circles. 

 

I'm sure he's not addicted to pornography, and they threw the term out there to help Josh look like a victim (poor guy was too weak to resist Satan).  The media latched on so they've run with it.

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