Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion -14

[Buzzard]

Per Michelle's words:

"While I am always joyfully available for him (Jim Bob), in turn, he’ll lay down his life in any way. He will sit there and listen to everything I need to tell him because he knows that I’m there for him, too. I’m meeting his needs, he’s meeting my needs."

The way this is worded in particular really troubles me. Michelle seems to be stating directly that if Anna had been happier about making herself sexually available whenever Josh asked for it, then his treatment of Anna as a husband would have been reflection of his level of sexual satisfaction. "See, if you jump when he says how high, and do whatever he wants in bed with a big smile on your face, he'll be glad to lay down his life for you and be the perfect husband! If you are unavailable in any way, if you don't feel like having sex or are depressed, why, then you'll just have to blame yourself when he turns to prostitutes and isn't around!" :naughty:

I don't suppose it ever occurred to Michelle that sometimes in life, no matter how hard you try and how well you treat certain people, it has no impact on them and they will treat you badly in return.

But not their special joshy! He could NEVER do anything thats his fault! Clearly its Anna's fault since thats just how the world works. After all, its always the woman's fault when men fail. Its their job to cover themselves, be submissive, and make all the sandwiches that are requested.

Just close your eyes and think of England, Anna.

[ClaraOswin]

It's probably their way of making Anna feel horrible about herself so she will stay with that pig Josh! If they had one bit of compassion in their bodies, they wouldn't shame her but Josh and themselves for failing him and for raising that excuse for a human being. He should have had respect for Anna and not be going around looking for sleazy affairs. Shame on you Michelle for shaming your DIL, it's not her fault; it's yours!

I think shame is one thing that messed Josh up from the beginning. It's pretty clear that these morons think shaming a child is a form of discipline or punishment. It's unhealthy.

[JessaJessa]

Funniest comment I saw online re this statement of "advice" by Michelle. I have some advice for her too......tie them tubes and give head more. I'm surprised her kids didn't marry each other. The whole family is weird. :dance:

[Inky]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Anna WAS attentive to all of Josh's sexual needs. This was something that was discussed on the show many times. Michelle and Jill posting what they did is just cruel and wrong.

[AngelGirl8811]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Anna WAS attentive to all of Josh's sexual needs. This was something that was discussed on the show many times. Michelle and Jill posting what they did is just cruel and wrong.

That wouldn't surprise me either. :pull-hair:

[LilahBelle]

There's not a whole lot for me to say about that blog other than it's totally fucked up beyond words.

The only good thing about this post is I think it went viral and the world sees just how fucked up these people are.

Did anybody see what Sharon Osborne said on the VIew? It was just the best rant I've ever heard about Michelle Duggar. I can't find it now.

[2manyKidzzz]

You are so right. Michelle and Jill are cruel and wrong.

Edit typo

[JessaBlessa]

The only good thing about this post is I think it went viral and the world sees just how fucked up these people are.

Did anybody see what Sharon Osborne said on the VIew? It was just the best rant I've ever heard about Michelle Duggar. I can't find it now.

It was on The Talk, not The View. Try The Talk web site.

[ArmchairTurnip]

I think the worst part of it, for me anyway, is that all the victim blaming - the blog posts, the sermon links, the carefully scripted, curly-haired, dabby-Kleenexed interviews - appear to be motivated by sheer self-absorption, rather than true malice. It's one thing to be bitchy and own your bitchiness. It's a subtler, crueler thing to pull this crap at an innocent party's expense, merely to protect your own interests.

[EmCatlyn]

That wouldn't surprise me either. :pull-hair:

As I understand it, the blog was a repost of something Michelle had posted before (before Jill's marriage?). So it is clear that Anna would have heard this advice in the past--I would guess around the time she married Josh (and maybe over and over because Michelle has so little in her brain that it tends to repeat).

So I agree completely that Anna knew all about being attentive to her husband's needs (aka, being sexually available to him at all times) and that it is unlikely she ever refused him, though there may have been occasions when, being human, she may have been less "joyful" (think migraine, crying baby, etc.) than others.

Jumping to another side of this, though, I am not so sure I agree with the interpretation that Michelle's post was directed at Anna. First, it is entirely possible that Anna is staying away from the internet and social media. ( Consider that her FB page and so forth haven't been edited since the Ashley Madison thing came out. Nothing has been added or changed.). Michelle would know that Anna would probably not see the post. Second, as said above, it is probable that Anna has already been following that advice, and I bet she told Michelle so, in the days immediately after Josh admitted to infidelity and so forth. Lastly, the timing is wrong. If meant "for" Anna, the time to post this would be just before Josh is supposed to come home. (Maybe he is coming home this weekend--or maybe he rejoined the family a week ago and is complaining to Mommy that Anna isn't putting out enough, but I doubt it.)

My thought is that Michelle posted the "advice" now for the same reason JB posted that "advice" on parenting and raising Godly children a few weeks back. She wanted attention and wanted to pat herself in the back because she hadn't been getting enough pats or something. She has a limited number of of ideas and nothing new to say, so she brought up this "advice" which is really an indirect boast about what a great wife she is and how she and JB have this great marriage.

It is definitely insensitive to Anna because even if it wasn't aimed at Anna and her situation, Michelle should have figured it would be read that way by the public. But she really doesn't understand the public. The most striking thing about the Duggars is that they can be really manipulative, but they are fundamentally clueless about how other people see things.

And, as others have said, it is all about them. I don't doubt they will happily throw Anna to the wolves to protect themselves, and they are probably doing the "guilt" thing on her. I am just not sure this recent post by Michelle was a deliberate part of the "guilting" or even an attempt to suggest to others that Anna is to blame for Josh's infidelity.

Maybe it is--but I think it is just Michelle wanting attention.

[circularlogic]

Thanks but I actually meant which thread that her blog post is being discussed HERE? Where its being discussed on FJ? Has it even been brought up yet?

I'm furious for Anna. This was a thinly veiled accusation at Anna hidden behind a "helpful" but gross blog post. Ick.

It is in the "how to know no means no ....GOP"

[St.Clara]

It's probably their way of making Anna feel horrible about herself so she will stay with that pig Josh! If they had one bit of compassion in their bodies, they wouldn't shame her but Josh and themselves for failing him and for raising that excuse for a human being. He should have had respect for Anna and not be going around looking for sleazy affairs. Shame on you Michelle for shaming your DIL, it's not her fault; it's yours!

While I definitely see why most of you think that Michelle was posting this crap in order to shame Anna, I wonder why now? I mean, it´s Michelle herself who says that problems and conflicts should be swept under the rug should be dealt with in private. The post would certainly have made some sense at the time Josh´s cheating became public. But now as the speculation and blaming is gradually dying down due to lack of fodder, why stir it up afresh? :think:

Maybe Emmalyn is right, and this is Michelle´s attempt to get back all this much missed positive attention she used to enjoy in the past. I definitely agree with Emmalyn in that Michelle is sufficiently clueless as to do it in a way that is sure to make things even worse for her. I do not agree though in that Michelle necessarily believed Anna when Anna told her that she had done everything as she "should", regarding her marriage. However much Anna might have protested her innocence, the mere fact that Josh strayed is, in their world, sufficient proof that she cannot be innocent, that she must have done something wrong. I am even afraid that this way of thinking made Anna unable to assert her innocence wholeheartedly, even more so as it is literally impossible to always be joyfully "available". (In that case, I´d even prefer the "Think of England"-advice - as horrible as it may be, at least it is humanly possible to act upon it.) There must have been times during her marriage when Anna was not overly enthusiastic about having sex. While she at the time may have been pretty successful at hiding her emotions from Josh, she herself will still know what she felt and will blame herself for it. (And I´d be very surprised if, at some desperate point during this whole sad affair, she had not admitted as much to Michelle...)

This being said, I see another possibility still for why Michelle might have chosen the present moment to repost this crap (and I´ll freely admit this idea is heavily influenced by wishful thinking on my part): what if the rumours are true and Anna is really considering divorce? In that case, Michelle would know that the public would soon start the discussion about Josh´s affairs all over again. It would accordingly make sense for her to put the blame (again) on Anna (by way of precaution, so to speak), and maybe to even try and scare her from following through with her plans. I agree in that if Anna is at the TTH, she´ll probably not read much of what´s there in the internet. On the other hand, if she is considering divorce, there´s a high probability that she´s in regular contact with Daniel who will keep her informed of what is going on there. If he´s clever he´ll probably choose to never mention Michelle´s blog to his sister but I doubt that this would stop Michelle. In my experience, families who are trying to keep an escaping member in line feel the urgent need to blame and exert pressure, independent of their chances of success and independent even if said member is likely to ever hear about it.

[Sundaymorning]

What I don't really understand is how "being available to your husband at all times" works with Gothards crazy sex rules, which prohibit sex during the wife's period and for quite a long time after births etc. So if Joshy cheated during such a time, would it still be Anna's fault? :think:

Also, I just hope the Duggars get called out by the public for posting such dangerous and simply idiotic things. :angry-banghead:

[AngelGirl8811]

What I don't really understand is how "being available to your husband at all times" works with Gothards crazy sex rules, which prohibit sex during the wife's period and for quite a long time after births etc. So if Joshy cheated during such a time, would it still be Anna's fault? :think:

Also, I just hope the Duggars get called out by the public for posting such dangerous and simply idiotic things. :angry-banghead:

Josh was never going to be satisfied with just Anna, not in my opinion. He's just a sleazebag who always wants more. Even if Michelle was just being clueless, it really is a poor time to choose to do so. There's something going on at the Duggar compound. Things just don't reappear for no good reason.

[boston2495]

Have they ever talked about WHY the couples (mainly just JB/Michelle and Josh/Anna) wear matching colored shirts all the time?

I've actually always wondered the same exact thing and have never seen an explanation for this. I remember way back in the day seeing Josh and Anna wearing matching clothes around the time of their engagement (or maybe when they were first married) and thought it was odd, but have also seen the Duggar parents doing it plenty of times too. Did they ever mention it? Now I'm curious...

[justoneoftwo]

While I definitely see why most of you think that Michelle was posting this crap in order to shame Anna, I wonder why now? I mean, it´s Michelle herself who says that problems and conflicts should be swept under the rug should be dealt with in private. The post would certainly have made some sense at the time Josh´s cheating became public. But now as the speculation and blaming is gradually dying down due to lack of fodder, why stir it up afresh? :think:

Maybe Emmalyn is right, and this is Michelle´s attempt to get back all this much missed positive attention she used to enjoy in the past. I definitely agree with Emmalyn in that Michelle is sufficiently clueless as to do it in a way that is sure to make things even worse for her. I do not agree though in that Michelle necessarily believed Anna when Anna told her that she had done everything as she "should", regarding her marriage. However much Anna might have protested her innocence, the mere fact that Josh strayed is, in their world, sufficient proof that she cannot be innocent, that she must have done something wrong. I am even afraid that this way of thinking made Anna unable to assert her innocence wholeheartedly, even more so as it is literally impossible to always be joyfully "available". (In that case, I´d even prefer the "Think of England"-advice - as horrible as it may be, at least it is humanly possible to act upon it.) There must have been times during her marriage when Anna was not overly enthusiastic about having sex. While she at the time may have been pretty successful at hiding her emotions from Josh, she herself will still know what she felt and will blame herself for it. (And I´d be very surprised if, at some desperate point during this whole sad affair, she had not admitted as much to Michelle...)

This being said, I see another possibility still for why Michelle might have chosen the present moment to repost this crap (and I´ll freely admit this idea is heavily influenced by wishful thinking on my part): what if the rumours are true and Anna is really considering divorce? In that case, Michelle would know that the public would soon start the discussion about Josh´s affairs all over again. It would accordingly make sense for her to put the blame (again) on Anna (by way of precaution, so to speak), and maybe to even try and scare her from following through with her plans. I agree in that if Anna is at the TTH, she´ll probably not read much of what´s there in the internet. On the other hand, if she is considering divorce, there´s a high probability that she´s in regular contact with Daniel who will keep her informed of what is going on there. If he´s clever he´ll probably choose to never mention Michelle´s blog to his sister but I doubt that this would stop Michelle. In my experience, families who are trying to keep an escaping member in line feel the urgent need to blame and exert pressure, independent of their chances of success and independent even if said member is likely to ever hear about it.

I think this has some really good points. There is no way they will think Anna did everything right. She wasn't joyful enough, she wasn't submissive enough, supportive enough. Enough is a powerful word, there is no amount that would satisfy.

[Hera]

Well, there it is, folks. Who the Duggars really out there, for all the world to see. I am horrified that this woman is raising or has raised - well not "raise" really, but in a position to influence, at least - at least ten young woman, at least 3 of whom were survivors of sexual abuse. The kind of "your body is not your own" and "anything bad that befalls you is your fault" and "if you just met his needs better, then he would have treated you better" this woman spews bullshit is beyond vile.

It's great that Michelle has a husband who loves her and treats her with respect and does not cheat on her. Good for her. But that has basically zero to do with how "joyfully" she submits to his every whim and everything to do with his own internalization of the type of man he sees himself as and wants to be. Perhaps if Michelle and JB had spent more time teaching their children how to respect themselves and others and how to develop principles that they want to live by instead of instilling guilt, fear and shame, their children would have turned out to be better people. So far, they've got a lying cheater (Josh), a hateful, ignorant and judgmental loudmouth (Jessa) and an co-dependent dimwit (Jill). What do all of these three have in common? They are all weak people, followers and sheep who cannot think for themselves, and whose lives are ruled by fear and dependency. 0 for 3, as far as I am concerned.

[MarcyMM]

The only good thing about this post is I think it went viral and the world sees just how fucked up these people are.

Did anybody see what Sharon Osborne said on the VIew? It was just the best rant I've ever heard about Michelle Duggar. I can't find it now.

Would love to see what Sharon Osborne had to say about it. I agree, that's the only good thing about this - how much attention and disgust it's getting. Over the past couple of days I've been watching it hit all my feeds, one by one.

Keep talking Duggars; whether or not Anna realizes it, she's getting more and more support, while her in-laws are starting to drown in their own shit.

[ArmchairTurnip]

It's great that Michelle has a husband who loves her and treats her with respect and does not cheat on her. Good for her. But that has basically zero to do with how "joyfully" she submits to his every whim and everything to do with his own internalization of the type of man he sees himself as and wants to be. Perhaps if Michelle and JB had spent more time teaching their children how to respect themselves and others and how to develop principles that they want to live by instead of instilling guilt, fear and shame, their children would have turned out to be better people. So far, they've got a lying cheater (Josh), a hateful, ignorant and judgmental loudmouth (Jessa) and an co-dependent dimwit (Jill). What do all of these three have in common? They are all weak people, followers and sheep who cannot think for themselves, and whose lives are ruled by fear and dependency. 0 for 3, as far as I am concerned.

PREACH.

[gemma]

Often here I'd see people talking about the episode where JB humps Michelle on the mini-golf course. I had this episode on my DVR. It was a replay of it, NOT from when it originally aired. And I only saw him standing behind her for a second (he bounced up and down a bit.) But that was it.

Today, I saw this. And WOW...that is NOT what was shown in the airing I have. I find it kind of funny that they edited it out for the replay. I wonder if JB told them to or what.

OMG I had no idea there was an extended version out there! I only saw the edited one. This guy is even more of a freaking pervert than I thought!

[JMO]

Besides the fact that Me decided to recycle a couple of old blog posts from Jill's engagement days at a time when it could do nothing but hurt their image and Anna, this has shown what it looks like when they don't work with a PR agent. Clueless and self-absorbed. I would LOVE to know what's going on in the TTH. I'm hoping some day Anna leaves and goes on Dateline or Oprah's network or something and we learn what's been going on. I have felt for a while that Josh did not always exert his need to be joyfully submitted to. It has always stuck with me that Anna nudged him and said "hint hint" in that episode when they watched the calf being born. He was getting his rocks off with strippers and didn't want vanilla submission at home. Or probably the million blessings that go with it. Run Anna Run!!

[Valerie3kids]

Compassion that is not a word I would ever associate with the Duggars or their clan. I don't think they can spell it or define it.

Maybe Michelle posted not for Anna but for the "rest of us" who are always in need of spiritual guidance and who are always wondering how to make our relationships as wonderful as she and JB's. NOT! But I am afraid with it coming from her MIL from hell that Anna will take It personally and it will just be added to the list of her personal shames she has inherited from this nasty family.

The goofy golf course incident just makes me want to hurl. I can not imagine doing that in front of my children or having anyone do that in front of me and thinking that it was good manners. I can not imagine my husband treating my like such a whore in front of my children. Or as his personal property. Do they not leave anything for the bedroom? I know that sex is constantly on JB's mind as he talks about it so much. Immaturity and poor self image in it's highest form with JB.

They have raised a tribe of poorly educated, shame ridden, guilt filled, poorly socialized group of humans. Some how they have found people to marry that fall into that same category so the cycle continues.

[Sweet Fellowship]

Somebody needs to help get Anna and the kids out of that house and away from her toxic in laws.

[SilverBeach]

Michelle's "advice" is making me puke.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I'm tickled by the idea that Me-chelle posted this just to put the spotlight on herself. I can well believe that she is pining for the days when she was receiving adulation and awards for being such a wonderful mom. Remember when JB said she was the role model for "millions of women around the world"? Those days are gone for good and they are never coming back. She'll be lucky if TLC allows her to make a guest appearance on her daughters' show.