Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Lucky 13

[SassyPants]

I was just thinking how quickly the Duggars went from their highest of highs to their lowest of lows (that we know of) in less than a year. In 2014, there were two engagements and two weddings. Jill became pregnant and so did Anna. They had their highest ratings with Jill's wedding episode on TLC, and the People covers started coming and sang their praises. Flash forward to May 2015, and the first scandal breaks. They try to do damage control and have the Fox News interview. That's a spectacular mess. Their show is pulled from TV and then ultimately cancelled. There's Josiah's broken courtship with Marjorie. Things begin to quiet down and then BOOM! The Joshley Madison scandal erupts and Josh is in rehab. Now, the Duggars are a brand nobody wants to work with. And, it seems like there might be inner squabbles between family members being played out on social media. Remember last winter when Jim Bob made some sort of statement about a petition to cancel the show, and he was basically gloating about being number 1 on TLC? Isn't there an old saying about pride goeth before a fall? Well, I say karma is a real bitch and she'll get you every time.

And arrogance knows no bounds-

JB is an idiot.

[Themiscyran]

I was just on the Talking Points Memo site and their cover story is about the Duggars and their ties to Gothard. Check it out.

I was just coming here to post the link. talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

It also details the Bates' continuing ties to Gothard. Scary stuff.

[calimojo]

I was just coming here to post the link. talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

It also details the Bates' continuing ties to Gothard. Scary stuff.

I just read it too and it is very well done

[MakeItSo]

I was just coming here to post the link. talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

It also details the Bates' continuing ties to Gothard. Scary stuff.

nice find, guys!

[Buzzard]

Last night, while clearing out the "to do" list on the DVR in order to make room for the new fall shows, I deleted the series pass to 19KAC. It had worked its way up to the top 10 in the list as it had outlived many other shows.

It was a bit sad... all those years of Tuesday night recaps... hopes for the demise of the show... and now its gone.

I will miss spending my tuesday nights with you guys typing as fast as I possibly can. Perhaps now I can let my nails grow!

[justoneoftwo]

From what I've seen (and anyone out there with more information, please feel free to jump in), super-fundie style wasn't much of a thing in the 60s or 70s. A lot of this nonsense appears to have been ramped up in the 80s (the Pearls and Nancy Campbell's Above Rubies were instrumental in that push, as were Gothard and many others). In the 90s, things seem to have become even more cult-like and fervent, at least rhetorically and with the restrictions on dress, schooling, secular interactions, etc.

The data's still not in, but it does not appear to be the kind of program which is sustainable in the long-term. The children/adults coming out of these homeschooled, isolated situations have few skills and less education. They're stunted intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally. Those who decide to leave (Daniel and Suze Keller, Cynthia Jeub, Alecia Pennington, etc) have even more challenges, starting with familial backlash and including trying to make it in a world where their credentials (School of the Dining Room Table certifications don't go far) are lacking.

The best comparison I see in the US is with the FLDS. However, historically, they have had a slightly improved appreciation for education (Warren Jeffs really trashed what was there, though) and a much greater emphasis on hard work and hard labor. While the women of the FLDS were spiritually abused and saddled with early marriages and tons of kids, they also seemed to work their a$$es off -- gardening, cooking, cleaning, child rearing, etc. I attribute this to their pioneer-ish roots and the fact that many people in that religion have had familial involvement for generations. Many of the Quiverfull families seem to lack this incredibly strong work ethic -- not all, but a number of them seem a bit lazier than one would expect (*cough* Duggars *cough*). Don't get me wrong, though -- I've also read some accounts of rather lazy-sounding FLDS patriarchs who couldn't be arsed to finish their megahomes, built for child after child but always in a continuous state of construction. I've read reports of unfinished walls with electrical issues, too...definitely not trying to hold up the FLDS as a superior cult, but on the whole, they seem slightly more industrious.

The FLDS also allowed more of their children to pursue higher education. Every community needs a doctor and a dentist, and a lawyer never hurt, either, for pesky persecution issues. The FLDS used to seem to plan better for the future than the Quiverfull types. From what I can now tell, Warren Jeffs really destroyed much of his community with his horrible decisions and actions. People appear to be slowly awakening and slipping away from those communities.

TL;DR: Quiverfull doesn't seem to be sustainable in the long-term. This could be by design, as perhaps some are hoping the Rapture/Apocalypse/third temple will be upon us soon, and that God will strike down with great vengeance... I'm not in the upper echelons and don't know, but the evidence points me that direction.

I'm sure I messed up or left out important dates and names, so if anyone would like to fill in some blanks or make some corrections, please feel free!

Re the bold. I believe there are tax benefits or something to not having the home completed. Its not always laziness, sometimes I think its "bleeding the beast."

Further, unlike the Quiverful, the FLDS are very into (or were) working for outsiders. They have also historically been educated. Until recently they had a school in the largest city in Utah, and had more kids living there then the school could take. As backwards as they are, they are actually more in touch with the modern world than some other fundies we see.

[vienna]

Sorry if this is not the right place, but his onw is interesting (Especially the end of Part 1)

Edited to add what it is: Grwoing up extrem Christian. About a closet Atheist, explaining -among other things - why can not tell his family

[Moraine]

I don't get why the Duggars don't farm. They could save money and keep kids busy...youtube.com/watch?v=unBS-xQ4V3g :dance: :angry-banghead:

[MatthewDuggar]

I don't get why the Duggars don't farm. They could save money and keep kids busy...youtube.com/watch?v=unBS-xQ4V3g :dance: :angry-banghead:

They had some oddball Christian guy come in and they planted a half-assed garden on one episode. It's assumed they abandoned it. Farming = work - are you kidding?

[CharlieInCharge]

Apropos of nothing, but I went to a birthday party for a two year old today and he had apparently had a hair cutting accident the day before because he was shaved bald. The very first thing that popped into my head when I saw him was 'Was he sent to a Fundie Camp?!?!'

No one I know in real life would even get why that made me laugh. Thanks FJ <3

[missegeno]

I always think of fundie camp with shaved heads too!

As per gardening, wasn't there an episode where they said they couldn't garden because they travel away from home too much to maintain it?

[roddma]

The Hansel and Gretel analogy makes perfect sense to describe the Bateses. AS far as reading to a passel of kids, the keyword is 'passel'. Kelly and Gil may seem hands on, but :how much one on one time do the kids get? I think that was said elsewhere on FJ .Kelly wasnt reading to one child while tucking them in bed. I see the Duggars and Bates same product different flavor like Coke and Pepsi. Front hugs and pants dont impress me much.

[MakeItSo]

I always think of fundie camp with shaved heads too!

As per gardening, wasn't there an episode where they said they couldn't garden because they travel away from home too much to maintain it?

maybe it's time to plant and grow some cucumbers again so they can pickle them, now that they don't have to go on mandatory field trips, vacations paid by TLC travel far away from home often anymore.

[missegeno]

It may be time, but they don't think so yet. They still think the speaking engagements will be abundant once the rest of us heathens finally learn about forgiveness.

[Justme]

I always think of fundie camp with shaved heads too!

As per gardening, wasn't there an episode where they said they couldn't garden because they travel away from home too much to maintain it?

Well, they don't have to worry about that any longer. Now that TLC isn't around to pick up their travel expenses, that's going to stop. No way is Boob going to pay for more than their yearly Big Sandy worship trip. If they do get invited to speak anywhere, it will just be a few that travel.

[Inky]

Oh, I think they'll be back in some form or another. Not with Josh and Anna - that ship has sailed, but with the remaining family members for sure.

It was a top rated TLC show - they're just waiting for the next scandal with some other reality show to take the spotlight and then the duggars will return.

Remember Jon & Kate + 8? I never thought they'd survive the divorce etc. because I found Kate so abrasive, but she's still popping up here and there.

Plus if they did cut them loose, don't you think there's a chance that "UP" network might grab them and carry on?

[ClaraOswin]

The birthday messages to Michelle are kind of pathetic. Some of the kids really struggle with sounding sincere about her. Not surprising, of course....because she sucks. She just doesn't have what I consider a normal mother/child relationship with her kids. They seem so distant. It's sad.

[hollywood]

Thanks for investing in my life.

Like... who even says that? ARGH!!

[chris]

The birthday messages to Michelle are kind of pathetic. Some of the kids really struggle with sounding sincere about her. Not surprising, of course....because she sucks. She just doesn't have what I consider a normal mother/child relationship with her kids. They seem so distant. It's sad.

About halfway thru Joy and Jana's video, Jana had trouble remembering her line for a second. Not to mention no sincerity at all

[Mothership]

About halfway thru Joy and Jana's video, Jana had trouble remembering her line for a second. Not to mention no sincerity at all

And then there's Jessa (aka Smuggar 2.0)-who loves being on camera, her greeting is twice as long as the others because she has to remind her mom (and everyone else) that she's PREGNANT! I had almost forgotten--it's been over 24 hours since you posted a selfie on instagram!

[Mela99]

Thanks for investing in my life.

Like... who even says that? ARGH!!

That was just such a weird comment. Like they should be grateful she got off her ass once in a while and mothered them.

[candygirl200413]

About halfway thru Joy and Jana's video, Jana had trouble remembering her line for a second. Not to mention no sincerity at all

It took me till basically now to realize my loving, sassy, amazing wonderful father shares a birthday with possibly one of the worst parents ever.

I also (neither did my siblings) make a minute video explaining how much I loved him. I'm back at school for my last year of undergrad so I decided to call him hoping he was having a relaxing sunday!

Every child felt pretty robotic, and I was really off putting(is that the right word?) with Jessa. She is now going to use the amazing tactics her mom used with them. Yay blanket training, sister moms and "safeguards"!

[Cochise]

God, Jessa, SHUT UP! CORK it! Put a SOCK in it! We GET it--you're gonna be Michelle, Version 2, New and Improved, with Smaller Blankets and Quicker Training!

I don't wish harm on anyone. I really don't. But Jessa reminds me of a relative who, before she was even pregnant, was absolutely sure her kids were going to be superior to the other children in the family. Well, only one of them ended up in the federal pen, I'll say that for her, but I think that only one graduated from high school, too. I wish that had been different, all around. But making points about how wonderful YOUR wedding was when your cousin is getting married and talking about how you're going to be a wonderful mother all seems almost like tempting fate. I honestly wish nothing but the best for her in her labor and her mothering, because that family doesn't need any more trouble than they've got, and I'd like to see some normal, nice, untroubled children in that family. But it would also be really good if Jessa could just shut up. And lose the camera, while she's at it.

She's going to be one of those mothers whose hair and makeup always looks perfect when she leaves the house. (My hair and makeup have pretty much never looked perfect, period, so I guess I'm just jealous.)

But anyhow, tell me if I got this wrong: I know Josh was never going to be wishing her a happy birthday, but weren't there only 11 kids telling her how downright swell she is?

Jim Bob does a really nice job of that syrupy, ever-so-sincere speech that I associate with Southern pastors who are arrested later in their careers.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

Re: Birthday videos. John David looks ROUGH. At the ripe young age of 25 he already has thinning hair, and a gut to match his dad and creepy older brother. Now that his family has fallen from grace it will be a miracle if he finds a wife.

I noticed that there were videos added later from the Dullards and Jim Boob. Will Joseph post a video from Clown College? What I really want to know is if Joshley Madison will be posting a video...

[VenusJS]

Sounds like Dr. Phil was going off on the Duggars this morning on The View. I didn't watch it, but apparently he said something like "For every rat you see, there's 50 you don't." He thinks there's more to the story than what's been revealed so far. He also talked about how awful they are for insinuating that Anna should have any kind of guilt for Josh's actions.