Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Lucky 13

[Justme]

I just read the latest People (9/7/15). Boy, did they throw the Duggars under the bus! All gloves are off! They went into Quiverfull, Bill Gothard and his CLOSE relationship to the Duggars, Jim Boob's authority, everything! They spoke with Vicki of No longer quivering (or whatever her site is called). They even used the word CULT!

There are so many people who thought they were a nice, conservative family, who now know the truth.

Boy, oh boy, I feel really bad for the little's and unmarried adult "kids" still living at home. They are never going to be able to live any kind of "normal" life. Boob and Mullet are going to watch them even closer than before.

[Kayel]

So I was just thinking of something....

I was recently diagnosed with something that requires me to take a medication...possibly for the rest of my life. And while on this medication, I CANNOT get pregnant. It would result in a miscarriage or extreme birth defects.

So what happens if a Duggar girl (or the wife of a Duggar boy) has to deal with something like this? They won't use birth control still? Or would they just not take the medication? Not have sex at all?

I just wonder what their freaky-deaky religion would "allow."

That is indeed an interesting thought.

It reminds me of the Bates, where medication to get pregnant is okay, but things to prevent pregnancy are not okay. I would guess, that the women would take the medication (if absolutely necessary) and not prevent pregnancy. Then they let God take over and pray for a healthy baby.

Maybe they will think it over, if it doesn't work. I really hope no Duggar-girl will experience anything like that, because it will most likely crush them... They think producing healthy offspring is their only life purpose...

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. Take good care of yourself. :hug:

[Cleopatra7]

So I was just thinking of something....

I was recently diagnosed with something that requires me to take a medication...possibly for the rest of my life. And while on this medication, I CANNOT get pregnant. It would result in a miscarriage or extreme birth defects.

So what happens if a Duggar girl (or the wife of a Duggar boy) has to deal with something like this? They won't use birth control still? Or would they just not take the medication? Not have sex at all?

I just wonder what their freaky-deaky religion would "allow."

They'd probably be forced to give birth dozens of times to non-viable fetuses. There was a profile in the nyt magazine some years back about an evangelical couple who were both carriers of a fatal genetic disease. They kept having children who died horrible deaths as toddlers, but refused abortion or even considering adoption because of their "pro-life" views. This is probably what would happen if a Duggar wife found herself in a situation you described. She'd just keep getting pregnant and the seriously I'll fetuses would just be considered martyrs for the pro-life cause. However, because Gothardism teaches that illness and presumably fetal abnormalities are due to sin, the unlikely couple might really go off the deep end and think they're cursed or something for failing to have a viable pregnancy.

[xtwheeler]

It occurs to me that maybe Josh did all these disgusting things precisely because of what his parents told him. He was constantly told how evil the secular world was, and about the awful evil things, specifically sexual, that secular people do. I think it is entirely likely that Josh did some of these things because *he thinks they are normal.* Is it possible that he thinks this is what all secular men do, so therefore in breaking away from his family, he did them thinking they were common? I wouldn't doubt that he's been told his whole life warped and weird messages about non-Gothard-approved sex and sexuality. Maybe he thinks all heathens touch their sisters, commit adultery, frequent strip clubs, pay porn performers for sex, etc. Maybe he thought "screw it - - I'm going to go full heathen, and these are they types of things I believe they usually do."

[ClaraOswin]

That is indeed an interesting thought.

It reminds me of the Bates, where medication to get pregnant is okay, but things to prevent pregnancy are not okay. I would guess, that the women would take the medication (if absolutely necessary) and not prevent pregnancy. Then they let God take over and pray for a healthy baby.

Maybe they will think it over, if it doesn't work. I really hope no Duggar-girl will experience anything like that, because it will most likely crush them... They think producing healthy offspring is their only life purpose...

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. Take good care of yourself. :hug:

Thanks. I am coping as best I can right now.

I always found it interesting that they'd use science and modern medicine to have babies but birth control is evil. So weird.

[ClaraOswin]

They'd probably be forced to give birth dozens of times to non-viable fetuses. There was a profile in the nyt magazine some years back about an evangelical couple who were both carriers of a fatal genetic disease. They kept having children who died horrible deaths as toddlers, but refused abortion or even considering adoption because of their "pro-life" views. This is probably what would happen if a Duggar wife found herself in a situation you described. She'd just keep getting pregnant and the seriously I'll fetuses would just be considered martyrs for the pro-life cause. However, because Gothardism teaches that illness and presumably fetal abnormalities are due to sin, the unlikely couple might really go off the deep end and think they're cursed or something for failing to have a viable pregnancy.

I hope they are never put in a situation like that. Their "logic" is so messed up. Horrible suffering is a-okay. But birth control isn't?!

[Rachel333]

I actually think a woman with that situation would just stop taking the medication while pregnant so that it would be her own life that was in danger.

I remember talking about situations like these in my high school Bible study where a lot of the girls were fundie or fundie-lite, and many of them talked about how they would be proud to die for their unborn child.

[ClaraOswin]

So ridiculous. It's like they don't even give a shit about any children they may already have. They will put their own life in jeopardy and risk their children having no mother just to pop out countless kids. It's so backwards.

[ljohnson2006]

If the Duggars' put this "Incident" (I use that term loosely), why are Jill and Jessa on the special about abuse tomorrow? According to them, J'Chelle and Boob, Smugs did nothing wrong. If they don't see themselves as victims of abuse, why are they on a special about it? This family will do anything for a quick buck. It's disgusting. I hope TLC is giving the profits of this show to charities that support abuse victims. That'd be the right thing to do.

[missegeno]

Thanks. I am coping as best I can right now.

I always found it interesting that they'd use science and modern medicine to have babies but birth control is evil. So weird.

Likewise. I was appalled when J'chelle wanted Ivf after all her talk about letting god decide.

[ClaraOswin]

Likewise. I was appalled when J'chelle wanted Ivf after all her talk about letting god decide.

They talked about IVF at some point?! I didn't know that. Asshats.

[Mela99]

They discussed IVF!?!? When was this?! :pink-shock: My god, I hope the doctor laughed in their respective faces.

[justmy2cents]

The only time I remember Michelle discussing IVF was when she was an 'honored speaker' at some church. Someone asked her how she felt about it and she hemmed and hawed and said something like she's not knowledgeable about it since she's never needed any help getting pregnant but she knew women who did and she really felt for them. I got the impression that she didn't really approve. I don't recall them ever talking about IVF for themselves. There was just an episode where she did blood work to see if a pregnancy was still possible.

[singsingsing]

I don't think Michelle ever said she wanted IVF. They believe IVF involves murdering babies, just like birth control.

[Cleopatra7]

I think JB and Michelle were discussing fertility treatments to kickstart her tired reproduction system into gear, but thankfully, nothing came of this. The Duggars would never contemplate IVF because of their life begins at conception belief which means they regard a newly fertilized egg as having the same moral worth as newborn Meridith or five year old Josie.

[MakeItSo]

I don't think I remember her talking about IVF but wasn't there an episode where Michelle went to the doctor and talked about possibly soon be entering a "new season of life" and how adoption may be something the Lord might have in store for them but they're praying about it? Please someone tell me, a family with this many children (even before the two Smuggar scandals) would not be able to bring another kid into the mix. There isn't even enough time for as many kids as they have now. Why else would there be buddy systems and sisters raising their younger siblings?

(I apologized if this went somewhat off topic)

Edited for riffles

[YoshiCat]

I think they're just saying that they aren't since mainstream media sources picked up on ATI and the Quiverfull movement and began writing tons of articles about how nuts it is.

The Duggars don't seem to have any hesitation about admitting to nutty beliefs, I don't know why they would pick one to deny even if they believe it. These are people who seem unable to consider the possibility that they're wrong.

Quiverfulls believe in doing zero family planning. You're supposed to have sex whenever you want and never even think about whether or not you'll get pregnant, because it's up to God to open and close the womb.

If I'm not mistaken, Michelle deliberately tries to get pregnant and had used ovulation predictors. And she and Jim Boob discussed fertility treatment. Those are things a true Quiverfull believer would not do. So technically they're not Quiverfull.

But in the Quiverfull community, people expect that you will have a lot of children and I have the impression that people who don't are looked down upon as being less favored by God. Either way, they're having lots of children because they believe that in a few generation, they'll be able to win all the electionsame and make America the Christian taliban nation god intended.

[YoshiCat]

They'd probably be forced to give birth dozens of times to non-viable fetuses. There was a profile in the nyt magazine some years back about an evangelical couple who were both carriers of a fatal genetic disease. They kept having children who died horrible deaths as toddlers, but refused abortion or even considering adoption because of their "pro-life" views. This is probably what would happen if a Duggar wife found herself in a situation you described. She'd just keep getting pregnant and the seriously I'll fetuses would just be considered martyrs for the pro-life cause. However, because Gothardism teaches that illness and presumably fetal abnormalities are due to sin, the unlikely couple might really go off the deep end and think they're cursed or something for failing to have a viable pregnancy.

I actually think a woman with that situation would just stop taking the medication while pregnant so that it would be her own life that was in danger.

I remember talking about situations like these in my high school Bible study where a lot of the girls were fundie or fundie-lite, and many of them talked about how they would be proud to die for their unborn child.

From what I've read, and a little bit of personal experience, either scenario is likely, stopping the medication while pregnant or taking the medication while pregnant. The only option that is off the table is not getting pregnant. They believe that God wants them to have lots of babies and that their babies are extra special because they're super-duper Christian babies. So God will take care of them and make sure their babies are fine.

I've heard/read fundies say numerous times "doctors don't know." They always have a story about someone who was told her fetus had some horrible medical condition and was told she should abort. But she didn't and the baby was fine and oh the joy of being pro-life.

I've told this story before but it directly applies here. I had a friend from college who became a fundie. Back when she was still fundie light, we had a mutual friend who was having a very difficult pregnancy, very limited in her activities, had to be within a 30 minute drive of the hospital at all times, conversations about putting her on full bed rest, etc. But she went full term and she and the baby were fine.

Her doctor told her that another pregnancy would be extremely risky, possibly fatal, for her and the fetus. She got a second and third opinion from high-risk pregnancy specialists. They both told her the same thing. So she decided not to have any me children.

Our fundie friend was literally disgusted. She said the doctors couldn't know that and they shouldn't be scaring her like that. Babies are wonderful and God wants you to have babies, doctors shouldn't be telling women not to have babies. She and the baby she had were fine even after all those terrible things the doctors told her could happen. So, no reason for her not to get pregnant again.

This was the first time I had heard this particular branch of fundie craziness and I was so stunned I didn't know what to say.

After fundie friend had a baby (super easy pregnancy and delivery), she said that next time she wouldn't do "all that pre-natal stuff and testing." She would never have an abortion so there was no point. I mentioned that sometimes things can be treated pre-natally or treated immediately after birth. Or that she might want to be prepared and educate herself about the condition before the baby arrived. She dismissed it with a wave of her hand. She didn't want doctors telling her something was wrong and that she had to do this or that when they could be wrong and everything was fine. What if the treatment hurt the baby who was perfectly fine and didn't even need it?

I'm not friends with her anymore so I don't know how many children she had, the first one would be about 20 now. I do know that she had more, she's homeschooling (natch).

As an added bonus, she told me that she'd decided that pre-marital sex was wrong. She admitted that she'd done it, but even then thought it was wrong (then why did you do it???). I was single at the time and it just infuriated me. So you get to have all the sex you want with your husband but I'm not supposed to have any sex until I get married? At the time I thought I would never even get married. Urrrggghhh.

tl;dr Fundies believe that pregnancy is magical, nothing can go wrong and doctors don't know anything about pregnancy.

[Kayel]

I don't think I remember her talking about IVF but wasn't there an episode where Michelle went to the doctor and talked about possibly soon be entering a "new season of life" and how adoption may be something the Lord might have in store for them but they're praying about it? Please someone tell me, a family with this many children (even before the two Smuggar scandals) would not be able to bring another kid into the mix. There isn't even enough time for as many kids as they have now. Why else would there be buddy systems and sisters raising their younger siblings?

(I apologized if this went somewhat off topic)

Edited for riffles

If you referring to adoption with this one. IMO the Duggars are just "praying about" adoption, because there is no way they will go any step further. Adoption requires an background check and even before the scandals hit they were smart enough to know that huge problems could arise from them being checked. I see more skeletons in closets... (But I have to admit, knowing about the molestation might have been enough for JB&M to avoid background checks done for adoption. Maybe they even know that "hitting kids with rods" :cry: would not help in the adoption approval.)

[wotdancer]

If you referring to adoption with this one. IMO the Duggars are just "praying about" adoption, because there is no way they will go any step further. Adoption requires an background check and even before the scandals hit they were smart enough to know that huge problems could arise from them being checked. I see more skeletons in closets... (But I have to admit, knowing about the molestation might have been enough for JB&M to avoid background checks done for adoption. Maybe they even know that "hitting kids with rods" :cry: would not help in the adoption approval.)

My first piano teacher has ~12 biological children and wanted to adopt more, but the rules (not sure if it was US national laws or their state's) wouldn't let them...so they adopted internationally and are in the process of doing it again.

All that to say, if JB & M wanted to adopt, I doubt they could do it unless they went international.

[justbecause]

I just read the latest People (9/7/15). Boy, did they throw the Duggars under the bus! All gloves are off! They went into Quiverfull, Bill Gothard and his CLOSE relationship to the Duggars, Jim Boob's authority, everything! They spoke with Vicki of No longer quivering (or whatever her site is called). They even used the word CULT!

There are so many people who thought they were a nice, conservative family, who now know the truth.

Boy, oh boy, I feel really bad for the little's and unmarried adult "kids" still living at home. They are never going to be able to live any kind of "normal" life. Boob and Mullet are going to watch them even closer than before.

Do you have any quick quotes from the article? I might have to go by this issue myself. Curiousity is killing me now. :popcorn2:

[justbecause]

If you referring to adoption with this one. IMO the Duggars are just "praying about" adoption, because there is no way they will go any step further. Adoption requires an background check and even before the scandals hit they were smart enough to know that huge problems could arise from them being checked. I see more skeletons in closets... (But I have to admit, knowing about the molestation might have been enough for JB&M to avoid background checks done for adoption. Maybe they even know that "hitting kids with rods" :cry: would not help in the adoption approval.)

I agree. Good perspective, you said it better than I would have. :clap:

[ClaraOswin]

tl;dr Fundies believe that pregnancy is magical, nothing can go wrong and doctors don't know anything about pregnancy.

Wow. That is all so sad to me. It makes me thankful I didn't grow up in one of these backwards cults. Deciding not to have another child (like planned) because of medical reasons has been one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make. But I am thankful I am ALLOWED to make that decision.

[Sunnyday]

These families with so many kids, i just don't get it. i know some "religious" families that just keep on adopting and not giving the ones they have the needed attention.

And Michelle..ugh. I was watching some old episodes trying to figure these people out. In one, it was one of the boys birthday and they went skating. The whole episode she was either walking around holding the baby under the blanket, possibly nursing?, and not helping any of the kids get ready, or talking about herself and her great skating. I never realized what a terrible mother she was. Who just walks around with the poor baby under a blanket like that? Sit down and nurse your baby, you're certainly not doing anything for anyone else.

[justbecause]

Oh geez.

A site just posted about Bessa being at that women's conference yesterday and some of the questions they got from the audience and responded to and if the site is right, Bessa wouldn't mind having 20 kids and is currently taking a class so they can adopt children, hopefully some time next year.

I guess she's not planning an 'escape' from crazy town.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/jessa-duggar-ben-seewald-speak-southern-womens-world-convention-babies-adoption/

I had such hopes for her running fast, guess not.