Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Lucky 13

[gustava]

No, nobody has said that Jill is "good enough" for women in developing countries though not for us. :pull-hair: And no one should say so.

I value education greatly, and I think if at all possible, women in developing countries should have their babies delivered by fully trained medical professionals.

However, Jill is probably better than I would be (here as well as in a developing country) if someone suddenly went into labor and there were no nurse-midwife or obgyn around. I have a good deal more than a highschool education, but I have been present at only three childbirth's (two my own) and I wouldn't know how to judge cervical effacement, how to ease the baby's shoulders out of the birth canal, clear the baby's nostrils etc to help with the first breath, cut the cord, etc.

Presumably, with a normal birth, Jill would know all this and more. (I gather she made a bad judgment call during her own labor, but very few of us are rational and wise during labor.) So I will say that her training, however minimal, has probably prepared her to be a lot more help to a woman in labor than most of us who are not nurses, MDs or similar professionals.

Regarding developing countries, the sad truth is that they don't always have the resources we take for granted. A clean hospital bed and a trained medical practitioner to deliver a baby is not an option in many cases. I agree that it should be, but it isn't. Therefore it is my position that Jill may have something positive to contribute even if she is just minimally trained.

(FWIW, I have lived in developing countries, though always in the cities-- so I know the full problems faced in rural areas only by hearsay--but I have probably more personal experience of these countries than many of the people getting bent out of shape because Jill isn't a fully trained midwife.).

Anyway, the reason I am bothered by the way Jill's training is being belittled and condemned is that the tone of the discussion seems to be that because she is not trained to the highest standards, she is therefore useless. I believe that all education and training are valuable and that even undertrained and inexperienced as she is, Jill might come in useful, might have something to contribute. Just because she might not know how to deal with a unusual case doesn't mean she cannot deal with ordinary cases. Given that it is not a question of whether Jill or someone who is better trained should go on a mission, I don't see what it matters whether she is a "real" midwife or not.

Let me add that 29 years ago my cousin and her baby nearly died during a difficult delivery in a hospital in Mexico City. Her regular MD was off doing something else and she was left in the hands of three residents, none of which knew how to deal with an infant in the traverse position. My cousin was badly torn up internally and has needed multiple surgeries since. The baby had developmental delays resulting from minor brain damage during the birth. I don't know if something like that could happen today or whether it might happen in Central America. I just know there were 3 med school graduates who collectively messed up.

What worries me about Jill is not her limited "medical" training but her limited world view.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/esther-ma ... 44521.html

[MakeItSo]

Anyone have any thoughts on why JB and a couple of the older boys would be at Epcot (the Disney park) today?

I've been wondering about that, too. If they were still with TLC, it'd be an obvious free trip. Can't imagine Scrooge McBoob to shell out some of his own dollars to take some of his kids somewhere fun.

[EmCatlyn]

I've been wondering about that, too. If they were still with TLC, it'd be an obvious free trip. Can't imagine Scrooge McBoob to shell out some of his own dollars to take some of his kids somewhere fun.

I don't know about today, but last weekend was "Nights of Joy" billed as a Christian music festival. Maybe one of the performing groups or organizers are there for some extra time and invited the Duggars boys and JimBob tagged along?

Or maybe they are pursuing a rumor that Josh got a job dressing up as some (fat) Disney character and is hiding at Epcot.

:wink-kitty:

[CommanderShepard]

Completely off topic, but is it weird that I've started actively rooting against The University of Arkansas football team just because the Duggars love them so much? I'm watching their game against Texas Tech right now and really hoping Tech pulls out the win.

[Cochise]

Is Michelle with Jim Bob at Epcot? If not, well, why?? JB routinely tells us how much he loves Michelle, so why doesn't she go on some of these jaunts with him? Was she along to see the airplanes when JB and two or three of the boys went? It's not as if she's got a packed schedule of non-stop speeches to make, meals to fix, children to teach, laundry to fold, and diapers to change. If she's not at these events, why isn't she?

Trouble in paradise?

[ClaraOswin]

I don't know about today, but last weekend was "Nights of Joy" billed as a Christian music festival. Maybe one of the performing groups or organizers are there for some extra time and invited the Duggars boys and JimBob tagged along?

Or maybe they are pursuing a rumor that Josh got a job dressing up as some (fat) Disney character and is hiding at Epcot.

:wink-kitty:

Thank you for that...I needed a good laugh tonight. :lol: And I now need someone with photoshop skills to make that a reality.

[AmazonGrace]

Donuts by the Dozen:

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/art ... 13,00.html

Yo ho ho, and a dozen doughnuts for me.

The Duggar family donned their best pirate garb on Saturday for the sake of free grub.

Hope the kids had fun!

[albanuadh_1]

This is OK but Hallowe'en isn't??? I know what Hallowe'en is but, to my knowledge, damn few people think about it when they go out trick-or- treating. So what is the difference here.

[morri]

In my family alone...if we had used uneducated "midwives" who don't know know a thing about prenatal care...there would have been at least 3 or 4 babies who have died and probably a couple mother's too. Actual problems arise more often than people think. Thank GOD for medical doctors and educated people in the field. If Jill had been my midwife...I probably would have had ecclampsia (same with one of my cousins...her baby was only about 2 pounds when born.) Another cousin needed a c-section when the baby got stuck. My sister needed an emergency c-section 5 weeks early because of no fluids.

If we had someone with Jill's "skills"...I don't think things would have ended so happily for us.

And think of all the people who get their 20 week anatomy scan and things like heart defects are found...things that need immediate attention at birth. If they were under Jill's care...those things wouldn't even be known because they don't even do the anatomy scan!

Jill is a CPM. That is NOT the same thing as a real midwife.

midwife is not the same as a GYN , In germany people can choose to do a midwife led prenatal care, but they still go to 3 scans at the gyn/ob. I think midwives are vastly underappreciated in the US.

[morri]

yesterday I had some guys with texas tech shirts on. They wanted one tv to watch college football on. little did they know that you dont simply walk into a pub during the rugby world cup and demand college football to be shown. :lol:

[CommanderShepard]

yesterday I had some guys with texas tech shirts on. They wanted one tv to watch college football on. little did they know that you dont simply walk into a pub during the rugby world cup and demand college football to be shown. :lol:

Guess you're not in the U.S.? I know the Rugby World Cup is a huge deal, but at least my part of the states everyone was watching college football yesterday.

[SassyPants]

yesterday I had some guys with texas tech shirts on. They wanted one tv to watch college football on. little did they know that you dont simply walk into a pub during the rugby world cup and demand college football to be shown. :lol:

My son (from California) has been playing rugby for 12 years; all through HS and college. He and his friends are actually in GB attending World Cup matches- Sounded like a great trip!

[morri]

We are in Hamburg, Germany.(Big expat population, Mr. morri is Safrican ) They said "we came all the way from texas to watch the college Football"..

[imjustasteph]

This is OK but Hallowe'en isn't??? I know what Hallowe'en is but, to my knowledge, damn few people think about it when they go out trick-or- treating. So what is the difference here.

Plenty of fundies consider Halloween devil worship, but have no problem with dressing up in costumes otherwise, as long as they aren't costumes that 'glorify' evil.

I wasn't allowed to do Halloween, but wore costumes for plays. The school here has 'Dress as your favorite book character' day in September or October every year, allowing kids who aren't allowed to costume up for Halloween a chance to dress up.

[MakeItSo]

Plenty of fundies consider Halloween devil worship, but have no problem with dressing up in costumes otherwise, as long as they aren't costumes that 'glorify' evil.

I wasn't allowed to do Halloween, but wore costumes for plays. The school here has 'Dress as your favorite book character' day in September or October every year, allowing kids who aren't allowed to costume up for Halloween a chance to dress up.

oh wow, I love that idea!! They should have that twice a year. Maybe it would encourage young kids to pick up books more voluntarily. (talking about those who may not get encouraged at home to read or those who simply just don't like to read that much. )

[AmazonGrace]

Plenty of fundies consider Halloween devil worship, but have no problem with dressing up in costumes otherwise, as long as they aren't costumes that 'glorify' evil..

But, but, pirates were outlaws...? They stole and robbed ships and drank rum and cavorted with bar maids in the harbor tavern... is that what good Christian kids should dress as?

[MayMay1123]

But, but, pirates were outlaws...? They stole and robbed ships and drank rum and cavorted with bar maids in the harbor tavern... is that what good Christian kids should dress as?

but, but....free donuts! FREE! DONUTS!

[ClaraOswin]

midwife is not the same as a GYN , In germany people can choose to do a midwife led prenatal care, but they still go to 3 scans at the gyn/ob. I think midwives are vastly underappreciated in the US.

I think CMs and CNMs are great. Our hospital actually has some there. But then there are these other "midwives" who do very little. They listen to the heartbeat and check fundal height and then pretty much call it a day as far as prenatal care. Those are the midwives I am not a fan of.

[ljohnson2006]

How is what they're doing different from Halloween, which they think is a devil holiday?

[pamplemousse]

but, but....free donuts! FREE! DONUTS!

The worst part is, Krispy Kreme actually gave them a dozen per person. Why would they need 14 dozen donuts?! Oh, yeah, because they're shameless grifters. Never mind whether you need the donuts...they're free, so go get them. Nothing like starting 'em as babies.

And KK needs to reexamine their policy as to who gets how many. Surely they can't still want to be associated with the Duggars...can they?

[Rescinded and Mended]

This is OK but Hallowe'en isn't??? I know what Hallowe'en is but, to my knowledge, damn few people think about it when they go out trick-or- treating. So what is the difference here.

Dressing up to celebrate Halloween is bad because, according to the Duggars, it is a holiday that represents the devil and it allows Satan ample opportunity to invade and take up residency in one's brain.

Dressing up to grift, on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable because it represents a celebration of greed in accordance with the gospel Book of Avarice as written by the Duggars.

[LovelyLuna]

If we had one in my town I would dress up and get two boxes between me and Mr. LL. Its free donuts! how can you not? Even PP and Zsu do this.

[Mr.Bowie]

Is Michelle with Jim Bob at Epcot? If not, well, why?? JB routinely tells us how much he loves Michelle, so why doesn't she go on some of these jaunts with him? Was she along to see the airplanes when JB and two or three of the boys went? It's not as if she's got a packed schedule of non-stop speeches to make, meals to fix, children to teach, laundry to fold, and diapers to change. If she's not at these events, why isn't she?

Trouble in paradise?

Someone on Pickles page mentions that JB and the boys are there to pick up van(s) that they purchased and are planning on driving back home.

[calimojo]

there is a pathetic picture of Derick giving Donuts to a homeless couple. Makes me sick. First of all, hungry malnourished homeless people really don't need donuts. There is no nutrition in that and will likely just make them sick.

Secondly, why the need to take a picture of such a meaningless gesture? Again, Let's capture this on film so everyone will know what good Christians we are.

Instead they could have taken 1 or more of those dozens of donuts to a fire house. To a Police station, or even dropped some off at the hospital that took care of Jill when she had Izzy. Nurses love to get food as signs of appreciation and often are too busy to even get a break to eat anyway. Donuts aren't the best option since they have not nutritional value, but the gesture would have been a lot less condescending than giving a dozen to the homeless peeps.

[AmazonGrace]

Here, have a donut that I got free of charge.