Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 12

[silverspoons]

I think the Gosselins are on a "see how it goes in terms of market share #s, 5 specials a year" type of contract.

I never thought I would say this, the Duggars' behaviors are just as bad and maybe even worse than Jon and Kate's-

I dislike Kate Gosselin, read the tell all book and wrote to sponsors to see her get off TV, but I would rather see her on TLC then the Duggars right now. Just looking at the Duggars on TV makes me sick, Kate just makes me mad.

Kate getting off TV was has been more a legal battle then her show's ratings or the divorce. There have been so many court hearing that have not been made very public over the filming. I used to follow them but gave up because it is just Kate wins, Jon wins back and forth and the big loser are the kids being dragged back and forth.

The Duggars say they don't care if they have a show or not but they want a show. Kate wants a show with her kids, but Jon doesn't so the Duggars only obstacle is the public right now. Duggars want the show, TLC wants the show, but does the public want to see them? Not me.

[Becket70]

What Jim Bob needs is a little Bernadette Rostenkowski in his life to kick his butt and tell him he is a putz. She would have him shaking in his shoes.

[MisUndrstd]

I dislike Kate Gosselin, read the tell all book and wrote to sponsors to see her get off TV, but I would rather see her on TLC then the Duggars right now. Just looking at the Duggars on TV makes me sick, Kate just makes me mad.

Kate getting off TV was has been more a legal battle then her show's ratings or the divorce. There have been so many court hearing that have not been made very public over the filming. I used to follow them but gave up because it is just Kate wins, Jon wins back and forth and the big loser are the kids being dragged back and forth.

The Duggars say they don't care if they have a show or not but they want a show. Kate wants a show with her kids, but Jon doesn't so the Duggars only obstacle is the public right now. Duggars want the show, TLC wants the show, but does the public want to see them? Not me.

To be completely honest, I would be okay with a spin-off that focuses on the older kids sans Josh and very little in the way of appearances by JB and Michelle. I don't want for the kids to be hurt anymore than they are. So I would not protest to have a spin-off taken off TV, unless they started to focus on JB and MIchelle and their stupid teachings or if they brought Josh into the picture. I know it might be hard for TLC to film around Josh at family events.. but they really need to find a way. And they need to limit JB and Michelle to very few generalized comments "We are so proud of Joseph on his college graduation"... that's it, nothing more, I don't want to know about their screwed up religious beliefs .. no more seasons of life and bikini clad lawn mowing.. I'm so over JB and Michelle. It might do well in the ratings in the beginning as people tune in more to fulfill their curiosity.. but over time it would fizzle away.

[SassyPants]

To be completely honest, I would be okay with a spin-off that focuses on the older kids sans Josh and very little in the way of appearances by JB and Michelle. I don't want for the kids to be hurt anymore than they are. So I would not protest to have a spin-off taken off TV, unless they started to focus on JB and MIchelle and their stupid teachings or if they brought Josh into the picture. I know it might be hard for TLC to film around Josh at family events.. but they really need to find a way. And they need to limit JB and Michelle to very few generalized comments "We are so proud of Joseph on his college graduation"... that's it, nothing more, I don't want to know about their screwed up religious beliefs .. no more seasons of life and bikini clad lawn mowing.. I'm so over JB and Michelle. It might do well in the ratings in the beginning as people tune in more to fulfill their curiosity.. but over time it would fizzle away.

As long as these folks remain entrenched in the cult, they should not be granted a show. Plus, the fact that a couple of those girls are parents or soon to be parents who are brainwashing another generation, no, just no. All the adult Duggars need to figure out how to support themselves and their own children. If all you're qualified to do is clean a toilet or dig a ditch with a shovel, have at it.

[umsami]

Anybody remember Morgan Spurlock's 30 days series? I would watch something like that that puts the older kids for 30 days in different situations.... living with a gay couple.....living with a Hindu family....living with a Muslim family....etc. Anything to deprogram. :)

[sense and nonsense]

To be completely honest, I would be okay with a spin-off that focuses on the older kids sans Josh and very little in the way of appearances by JB and Michelle. I don't want for the kids to be hurt anymore than they are. So I would not protest to have a spin-off taken off TV, unless they started to focus on JB and MIchelle and their stupid teachings or if they brought Josh into the picture. I know it might be hard for TLC to film around Josh at family events.. but they really need to find a way. And they need to limit JB and Michelle to very few generalized comments "We are so proud of Joseph on his college graduation"... that's it, nothing more, I don't want to know about their screwed up religious beliefs .. no more seasons of life and bikini clad lawn mowing.. I'm so over JB and Michelle. It might do well in the ratings in the beginning as people tune in more to fulfill their curiosity.. but over time it would fizzle away.

What do the married girls have going for them other than their youneek religion and umpteen siblings?

Leg humper alert.

[chelleinchicago]

As long as these folks remain entrenched in the cult, they should not be granted a show. Plus, the fact that a couple of those girls are parents or soon to be parents who are brainwashing another generation, no, just no. All the adult Duggars need to figure out how to support themselves and their own children. If all you're qualified to do is clean a toilet or dig a ditch with a shovel, have at it.

I'm even more opposed to a spin-off now than I was before the girls' interview. I'd hate to think of anyone who's been sexually abused (especially by someone living in their home) watching this play out and thinking that in order to heal they'll have to consider the well-being of their abuser, even over their own well-being, and concern themselves with forgiveness above all. Then they can say they've "moved on" like the Duggar girls. Just minimize that shit.

[Nic]

Seems OT but the Jury Duty thread was merged in so...

Kinda a FYI...though since our fav Degree Law Professional isn't around, not sure how useful this info is...

Last week on Penn's Sunday School, Penn described his recent jury duty experience in Las Vegas. A couple of points I thought might be more "universal" to jury duty:

1) Penn thought he would be excused this time bc he was last time. His lawyer said, that he was excused previously bc it was a death penalty case, and he is a well-known death penalty opponent. However, he is quite adequate for non death-penalty and civil cases.

2) The judge in her speech to the perspective jurors basically said that all those tricks like saying you are anti a specific group etc, they know about. All the websites that give you tips and tricks on how to get out of service, they've read too.

Now back to the regular scheduled Pedo Talk.

[Toothfairy]

White privilege is very real. Christian privilege is real if you're white. I don't know how the thumpers can excuse this behavior but judge others

[Mia]

It's like Germany after WW2 when they were still teaching in the 1980s that the Holocaust was propaganda and the killing of Jews never happened.

Nope..don't, just don't. There are nazis pretty much everywhere to be found in this world, also teachers can be nazis and there is the possibility to run into an idiot like that. But even in the 80's and 90's there were several laws that couldn't have let this happen without the teacher being fired or sued or finding himself in a court room soon after spewing that crap.I grew up in germany, I was born in Austria, i live in Austria. I am from Austria. Over here we have much stricter laws when it comes to things like this than anywhere else. So I personally would appreciate if you don't state as a fact that we are/were being told shit like this. It's like if I would state that as a matter of fact all americans are fat, stupid, can't find their own continent on a map because geographics isn't being taught in their schools and don't do anything else besides bombing other countries and reading the bible.

[Special friend]

To the bolded: I know it's not the main point of your argument here, but do you have any evidece to back up your claim? As a matter of fact, I grew up in Germany and went to school there in the 80s, and this is simply not true! Quite the opposite tbh, I remeber no other topic that was covered as extensively as WW2 and the Holocaust in history education troughout my entire school time, and rightfully so! I know there are still Holocaust deniers up to this day (remember PP's video ad Zsu's advertising blog post about it?), but they are a very small minority here in Germany, it is (and was in the 80s) even illegal to make such a statement! So maybe you might want to check your sources or, even better, don't present things like facts you obviously don't know much about .

I want to second this opinion. I am also from Germany, also went to school in the 80s and 90s. And we talked about WW2 and the Holocaust *extensively*. In literally all subjects (including sports!). They really wanted to make sure that everybody knew about it - to prevent it from ever happening again.

The poster is also right about saying that it is illegal here to deny the holocaust. That is somethng that gets you investigated by our secret service very quickly, and afterwards you are on their radar for a long time. (Even more so back then.) A teacher would loose his/her job for teaching something like that! I know this, because I am a teacher. There are only very few things that a teacher can get fired for here - child molestation, enticing people to harm someone ... And denying the holocaust.

And no, that is not a new law, it has existed for a looong time.

I don't know who your friends are, but likely they belong to the few crazy people who believe this because they want to believe it - despite all evidence to the contrary (also from their teachers).

[Johanna25]

I don't think there is any way the show is coming back. The tide has turned. Not only on the Duggars, I think, but on Christian Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism in general. Their moment is over. We've all seen the feet of clay. There will be resurgences here and there, but they are on their way out. Too many people are returning from the trenches so to speak with their war wounds and shell-shock. Unfortunately, the younger generations associate all Christian religions with fanatics and political reactionaries, so it will take a long time to recover and rebuild.

Even our local personality and author, Celia Rivenbark, who does the dotty housewife column in our paper, did an article, "The Duggars gave us 19 warning signs and counting" today.

[justbecause]

I wonder exactly how good JimBob is at real estate. I have a feeling his expertise has been oversold, and that he was lucky in his timing - being more involved in the real estate market during the boom years before the bubble burst.

I'm sure he has squirreled away a lot of money over the years the show has been on the air, but he's got to be having some panicky thoughts as he re-assesses his financial situation now. 16 offspring still living at home; but he's actually supporting all 19. Josh is unemployed with a wife and soon to be 4 kids. Who is going to pay off his back taxes for him? Thank goodness Derick has a paying job. He better keep it. Jessa and Ben have no income, except for what JimBob provides for them. So yes, he's got a lot of dependents. Will he start pushing them out of the nest faster now? I would think so. Money is what matters most to JimBob, and keeping most of it matters most of all. I do believe he thinks he can take it with him when he goes off to meet his maker!

Has anyone heard where Josh, Anna & the kids are? Are they in DC or Arkansas or ?

[Librul]

To be completely honest, I would be okay with a spin-off that focuses on the older kids sans Josh and very little in the way of appearances by JB and Michelle. I don't want for the kids to be hurt anymore than they are. So I would not protest to have a spin-off taken off TV, unless they started to focus on JB and MIchelle and their stupid teachings or if they brought Josh into the picture. I know it might be hard for TLC to film around Josh at family events.. but they really need to find a way. And they need to limit JB and Michelle to very few generalized comments "We are so proud of Joseph on his college graduation"... that's it, nothing more, I don't want to know about their screwed up religious beliefs .. no more seasons of life and bikini clad lawn mowing.. I'm so over JB and Michelle. It might do well in the ratings in the beginning as people tune in more to fulfill their curiosity.. but over time it would fizzle away.

No one owes the Duggar offspring a platform just because their parents are narcissists and their brother is a predator. The best thing that could happen to them, especially Jill and Jessa, since they seem to be the ones who crave the spotlight, is to fade into obscurity and have to live without the TLC trips, perks, fangirls and paychecks.

There is nothing interesting about Jill, Jessa, Bin, Derrick or the eleventy children they are going to have. In addition, Jessa has all the earmarks of a zealot.

[justbecause]

Losing the show is one thing, but losing support in terms of political allies, speaking engagements, etc. is a whole other problem for them. If Jim Bob stays persona non grata, that has got to hit him both in the pocket book and ego. Some people will always support them no matter what but those numbers may dwindle. This situation with Josh has allowed America to look behind the curtain, so to speak, and see what is really going on in the family.

I do agree that JB has lost the wide platform that he had in both politics and the regular people (not QF) but I also think that at the grassroots level he will still have his place. Maybe much more behind the scenes, but the die-hard Gothard followers are not going anywhere and this audience has bought into what they said and how they handled this situation hook, line, and sinker, so they will probably even be elevated within a small group of people.

[justbecause]

I wonder exactly how good JimBob is at real estate. I have a feeling his expertise has been oversold, and that he was lucky in his timing - being more involved in the real estate market during the boom years before the bubble burst.

I'm sure he has squirreled away a lot of money over the years the show has been on the air, but he's got to be having some panicky thoughts as he re-assesses his financial situation now. 16 offspring still living at home; but he's actually supporting all 19. Josh is unemployed with a wife and soon to be 4 kids. Who is going to pay off his back taxes for him? Thank goodness Derick has a paying job. He better keep it. Jessa and Ben have no income, except for what JimBob provides for them. So yes, he's got a lot of dependents. Will he start pushing them out of the nest faster now? I would think so. Money is what matters most to JimBob, and keeping most of it matters most of all. I do believe he thinks he can take it with him when he goes off to meet his maker!

So I have a question. I have read in quite a few places how JB when each of the kids has gotten married JB has "given" them a house to begin their new lives in.

Has JB really "given" them each a house? As in transferring the title of said house into their names and transferring ownership? Or has he "given" them a place to stay, but not ownership? Does anyone know or know how to check into this? I'd be willing to do my own research but have no idea how to figure it out.

[Snarkle Motion]

I want to second this opinion. I am also from Germany, also went to school in the 80s and 90s. And we talked about WW2 and the Holocaust *extensively*. In literally all subjects (including sports!). They really wanted to make sure that everybody knew about it - to prevent it from ever happening again.

The poster is also right about saying that it is illegal here to deny the holocaust. That is somethng that gets you investigated by our secret service very quickly, and afterwards you are on their radar for a long time. (Even more so back then.) A teacher would loose his/her job for teaching something like that! I know this, because I am a teacher. There are only very few things that a teacher can get fired for here - child molestation, enticing people to harm someone ... And denying the holocaust.

And no, that is not a new law, it has existed for a looong time.

I don't know who your friends are, but likely they belong to the few crazy people who believe this because they want to believe it - despite all evidence to the contrary (also from their teachers).

Just wanted to chime in and say not all American's believe that myth. I went to public school and we were taught that Germany was SUPER strict with laws post world war 2 so that swastikas were illegal as was denying the holocaust. From what I understand, Germany is very much up front with what happened in their country during the holocaust, accepts responsibility for what happened during this time without allowing anyone to deny or make excuses, and has been very good at making sure that they do not allow any tolerance for rhetoric or behavior that even remotely resembles what happened in their past.

I make note of this because I think Josh Duggar could take a lesson from Germany's response. Stop making excuses, accept accountability, and make sure you have zero tolerance for anything resembling your past behavior or the attitudes that allowed for it. And make sure that the future generations are aware of what happened and how you will make sure that they do not allow such things to happen again. The people who suffered at your hands may never forgive you - that is their right - but I think the public can if you demonstrate true acceptance of your actions and work tirelessly to demonstrate your commitment to making sure it doesn't happen again.

[SassyPants]

No one owes the Duggar offspring a platform just because their parents are narcissists and their brother is a predator. The best thing that could happen to them, especially Jill and Jessa, since they seem to be the ones who crave the spotlight, is to fade into obscurity and have to live without the TLC trips, perks, fangirls and paychecks.

There is nothing interesting about Jill, Jessa, Bin, Derrick or the eleventy children they are going to have. In addition, Jessa has all the earmarks of a zealot.

TLC is a business. There is no show without the backup singers (the other 17 and countings). There is no skill or knowledge that would compel anyone to shell out money or time. For the sake of generation #3, those adults all need to integrate into life in the real world. Once the REALITY of what they are faced with sinks in, I doubt any of those kids will have mega families- as they'll be cost prohibitive.

[SassyPants]

So I have a question. I have read in quite a few places how JB when each of the kids has gotten married JB has "given" them a house to begin their new lives in.

Has JB really "given" them each a house? As in transferring the title of said house into their names and transferring ownership? Or has he "given" them a place to stay, but not ownership? Does anyone know or know how to check into this? I'd be willing to do my own research but have no idea how to figure it out.

Doubtful. In the absence of proof, I think the consensus is that JB uses items as currency to control his kids. The married girls, furnished homes, JD the plane, the unmarried girls cars, Joe college tuition.

[justbecause]

Personally, I think if they would have kept their mouths shut, and laid low for a while, they would have fared better. Especially after the Megyn Kelly interview, they look like desperate, defensive asshats, who totally lost the plot.

I wonder if TLC did not say that they had to make a statment or interview to 'save' the show (if there is indeed any way to save it). In the interview JB said something like 'if' the show does not go on ... so apparently they see some hope. I think that in light of TLC not making a statement, they needed to guage the audience and the world's reaction to some degree.

It would make perfect sense to me that they would put it back on the Duggars to straighten this out to a certain degree. There is no worse publicity for TLC unless it comes out that they knew or were involved in a cover-up.

That's my take on it. TLC is a business, so they don't want to be directly involved so indirectly, something had to be said. More important the audience outrage had to be gauged for the future. The Duggars are a commodity and their show has a value, they want to see if there is anymore value or they can make any money in the future. Business is business.

[silverspoons]

So I have a question. I have read in quite a few places how JB when each of the kids has gotten married JB has "given" them a house to begin their new lives in.

Has JB really "given" them each a house? As in transferring the title of said house into their names and transferring ownership? Or has he "given" them a place to stay, but not ownership? Does anyone know or know how to check into this? I'd be willing to do my own research but have no idea how to figure it out.

There has been some digging done and I have never seen a title transfer to Jill/Derick or Jessa/Ben and I don't think we ever will. Jim Bob said Jill's house was just till he could sell it. Obviously he is not selling it, so I think Jim Bob's real intention was to let them stay till they save enough to buy a home for cash, same with Jessa and Ben. What gets me mad is if Jim Bob gave each kid the profit from one show 40k and one magazine cover 10k, with 50k in Arkansas they could buy a fixer like Josh's house or a small starter home like Dan Dillard. Is Jim Bob greedy or just wants control? I say he loves the control. I'll lend you a house, and you follow my program and save and buy a house for cash and also follow all my other seminars and ideas and make 19 more families just like ours.

[justbecause]

TLC is a business. There is no show without the backup singers (the other 17 and countings). There is no skill or knowledge that would compel anyone to shell out money or time. For the sake of generation #3, those adults all need to integrate into life in the real world. Once the REALITY of what they are faced with sinks in, I doubt any of those kids will have mega families- as they'll be cost prohibitive.

I don't know about the whole not having mega families. If they do not use birth control and each have a healthy sex drive (or submit to their headships that have a healthy sex drive) it is really just a matter of time before Mr. Sperm meets Mrs. Ovum.

To me it is telling that each of the girls got pregnant so quickly.

[halcionne]

It kind of looks like the Duggars are going to have a LOT less to say to the world soon, doesn't it? 'Cause who is going to want to listen? There isn't going to be a big enough market of Dim Buffoon and Repel's fans left to idolize them any longer, I'm gathering.

The Christian Homeschool Educators of Colorado is holding a big conference in a week or two, but the group's website is down for remodeling all of a sudden. Remodeling within a couple of weeks of the big annual conference? Oh, AS IF! I think it's because they're scrambling as to whether to dis-invite the Duggars, and they may not want publicize matters, either way.

Dim Sum and Hell'sBelle are still on the schedule as presenters, but originally they were also scheduled to provide an evening with attendees on the Friday of the convention and a pricey "Dinner with the Duggars" event. Both those events have vanished from the schedule.

The organization's Facebook page has a couple of people writing in asking them to get the Duggars out of the convention altogether. Earlier this the group said that the Duggars would be deciding today whether or not they would be able to attend, and they asked people concerned about whether or not the Duggars would attend to send the group email rather than leave messages on the group or convention's website, where such items can be read by the public . . . whatever decision the Homeschool group makes, there are going to be people unhappy with them and possibly wanting their money back. So I'm beginning to think that it's not the Duggars who are going to decide whether or not they're coming to Colorado.

Man, when even a Christian homeschooling organization begins to hear "PLEASE don't have the Duggars attend!" the Duggars are OVER as public figures. And THEN what will they do to feed all those kids?

I kind of like the idea that Jim Bob has been selling the doctrine that women shouldn't work outside of the home, only because there aren't that many adult men in the clan to support all the women and children. And Josh isn't among them, for the foreseeable future. Jim Bob might actually have to WORK, not live off of TLC and gigs at homeschooling conferences!

Yes. I've been thinking about how the show could maaaaaaybe continue in some form without JB&M or Josh participating if the public rejects them. If the Christian homeschooling community rejects them, there aren't any homeschooling parents left in the family to pick up the promotional slack.

Thank you, CHEC (and mostly TLC, but that's a different post) for giving me a relatively safe outlet to direct my schadenfreude. I archived a lot of the Rocky Mountain Super Conference last month on the wayback machine, if anyone wants to compare the original schedule or Duggar (and Jason Lisle, incidentally) seminar topics. There is a thread here about the conference: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26014

[SassyPants]

I don't know about the whole not having mega families. If they do not use birth control and each have a healthy sex drive (or submit to their headships that have a healthy sex drive) it is really just a matter of time before Mr. Sperm meets Mrs. Ovum.

To me it is telling that each of the girls got pregnant so quickly.

Male headships can make different choices and decisions.

Let those young men get a taste for what children really cost without all the freebies and easy money.

Those boys did not grow up with nothing. I also doubt the girls want to go back to the pre- TLC lifestyle.

What is interesting is that JB and M seemed so much more tenacious and motivated as young adults, vs their own kids. I laughed when JB described Josh's nursery being a crib and some diapers, vs Izzy's...or when Michelle spoke about her first home vs where Jill is living.

Why did the parents raise the kids to be less able to survive and compete? Is it really all about control?

[halcionne]

Anybody remember Morgan Spurlock's 30 days series? I would watch something like that that puts the older kids for 30 days in different situations.... living with a gay couple.....living with a Hindu family....living with a Muslim family....etc. Anything to deprogram. :)

Not gonna lie, I would watch that. With these requirements: Adult Duggar children only; no money could go to JB&M or Josh. And NO PROSELYTIZING! The Duggar involved would have to agree to go with an open mind and willing to learn. It could still go down like Paris and Nicole in The Simple Life, or it could go more like when Jessica Simpson went to India (I don't remember the name of that short-lived show, but Billy Corgan did the theme song, iirc). Point being, the show could be comedy or documentary; they may or may not actually open their minds a little (lbr, they wouldn't). But it might be interesting for a few episodes and get their brains outside of Gothardism for a while.

I have a limited capacity to make posts on Free Jinger. I'm a little embarrassed about how much of that capacity I've expended on my ideas for a palatable Duggar show. :embarrassed: