Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 12

[iammine]

if she is this broken up about it inside, then she shouldn't have gone on Fox news to do the interview. i believe she is crying for all the OTHER reasons.

I think it was probable that she was convinced to go on and defend her brother perhaps by her parents.. Who knows. But regardless of her intentions for doing the interview I think it's clear that she's genuinely upset by everything that is currently transpiring.

[Ollieandabby]

She SHOULD be crying "how could HE have done this to us."

edit to add. Jessas first sentence is basically sealed records are to protect those juveniles who have done bad things in their past. (she later add and to protect victims.) she should have mentioned victims FIRST. to protect VICTIMS. they don't care about what was done to them. they only care about protecting Josh. its sick. its disturbing. they are NOT role models.

i would respect them if they said This is what happened. its horrible. im disappointed the report leaked since it exposed me and now im going to fight for ALL victims of abuse to have the rights to control juvenile reports.

[iammine]

You can't tell someone how they should feel. That is ridiculous. She is not behaving victim-ish enough? This is news to us but, not to them. It's very possible she has moved passed that stage..... It's crazy to me, regardless of how we feel about the girls, parents, their crazy beliefs etc- that we would think for one second that it is our right to project on someone else how they should be feeling and why they should be crying... Just my opinion.

[LongDogMom]

Since all of this has come out, it makes me wonder more about why Josiah was sent away to ALERT for what seemed like months and months, and then he gets back and suddenly there's a courtship!

I'm not trying to start any rumours or accuse Josiah of anything but if Josh did what he did and only got sent away for a few months, it makes me wonder what Josiah did to get sent to ALERT for so long. Maybe he was caught looking at porn or something relatively minor even, but JB and M were so freaked out that they might have another Josh on their hands they over-reacted?!

Of course we'll never know, but I do get a sense that if there is any kind of sexual incident amongst the boys...that JB and M would likely be in a rush to marry them off thinking that if they had access to wifely sex then that would solve the problem.

Just seems kind of strange for him to be gone soooooo long and then suddenly he's back and courting and they are both so young!

[SassyPants]

if she is this broken up about it inside, then she shouldn't have gone on Fox news to do the interview. i believe she is crying for all the OTHER reasons.

I agree.

And if you're so broken and such a shell from your childhood, delaying having children yourself would have been the logical solution.

She seemed fine to make the adult decisions last year, well, then she should be able to be adult enough this year too.

She was told to get out there and try to save our show.

[quiverempty]

Newbie here, hoping not to screw up or ruffle feathers!

I've been wondering what the future holds if Jim Bob and Michelle don't have a show. I think that a lot of people who once watched may feel some combination of "These guys aren't really great, admirable people raising a big, nice, religious family; they're kinda creepy!" and "Nothing happens . . . it's boring. There are only so many times you can get all excited about somebody in the clan having a baby or getting married."

I suspect that until very recently the Duggars expected for the show to go on forever, what with all of the kids to get married and all of them to have babies. If the show goes on with the young brides as the center, well, it would be kind of difficult to exclude dear ol' Josh, Michelle, and Jim Bob, but I think they're all going to repel most sensible viewers from here on, even those who once enjoyed seeing them. (Though really, did anybody watch to see Chubby and his Ma and Pa? Or was it the younger family members who interested viewers?)

Does anyone, including anyone at TLC, want to pay money to those three so they can perform in the brides' show? I doubt it. And the brides aren't THAT interesting.

So if there's no show, THEN what? The show has been the Duggars' source of support for years, and I doubt they foresaw that it might end suddenly. I think the income of the show, rather than his wonderfulness and holiness, has made Jim Bob the Alpha dog in the family, the one who hires people and allows them to court and so on.

I don't think what holds the entire family together is love for Mom and Dad. How much of their love has any one of them really gotten for herself or himself? I think that many of the siblings probably really do love one another, and I think they all have a lot of values in common because the values have been drilled into them by the Alpha Dog and his adoring bitch. But I think money's the glue that holds them together and that KEEPS Jim Bob in the position of Alpha Dog. I think they've been pretty brainwashed, but I don't think religion will hold them together. It actually doesn't seem like the heart of the family, to me. Maybe I'm wrong. But the heart of the family seems to be this: Jim Bob and Michelle have money because of the show, and that (and their unwillingness to educate their children) makes the kids dependent on them and forces them all to hang together and make a kind of god of Jim Bob.

It seems as though Jim Bob provides financially for the whole family in one way or another. Doesn't he employ some of the adult men, and provide in general for the children who are still at home? How many of his children are financially independent of him? Not Josh, anymore, that's for sure . . .

If Jim Bob can't provide for everybody, some of them will have to look for work. Some of them will probably need to leave town (how many unemployed Duggars can find work in one area?)

If Jim Bob's income dwindles considerably, is he going to have the hold over his family that he currently does? Is he going to be Alpha Dog if he can't employ all his sons and sons in law and they have to go out into a wider world where people have more varied opinions? It's not like Jim Bob has got an attractive personality, or that the Duggars are intensely Christian, really. (I know they say they are, but do they ever really talk about Christ? Are they familiar with the New Testament, like most devout Christians are? The Duggars seem like they're following a whole other set of rules, though I could be really wrong about that.

You make a lot of very valid points. Tonitown isn't a very big place, it will be interesting to see how much this scandal affects their ability to keep their home a sanctuary. Not saying that this won't eventually blow over, because it probably will, but JB must making deals with a lot of people if he is out there selling real estate. They definitely aren't going anywhere anytime soon, with their custom built (ware)house, that puppy isn't a money issue for them. But that being said, you can't live in a bubble forever and without the income from TLC, they are going to have to work a lot harder to keep their zoo of children running. They've already had at least one public appearance cancelled by the host, and as everyone knows, that is another source of income for them and has been for a long time, and I'm sure it won't be the last time they are removed from an event. The last 10 years have been pretty smooth sailing for the D clan, let's see how they do living life as regular people for the next 10.

[2manyKidzzz]

I want them to allow their children to get higher education. Those younger 18 deserve more than cleaning toilets for their idiot father. Their rigid beliefs make me sick. Those younger 18 are fine individuals. But their parents are crazed, religious zealots. :nenner: :nenner: :pink-shock:

[quiverempty]

I agree.

And if you're so broken and such a shell from your childhood, delaying having children yourself would have been the logical solution.

She seemed fine to make the adult decisions last year, well, then she should be able to be adult enough this year too.

She was told to get out there and try to save our show.

Jillymuffin makes a complete contradiction of herself by doing this interview; she is upset because the public found out about the scandal and the victims never wanted it to see the light of day. Yet as much as there was speculation on who the victims were, this could have gone on forever without us every knowing exactly who was involved (I realize it wasn't very difficult to figure it out, but testimony is the only real proof in this case). "WE'RE the VICTIMS! How could they do this to us?" she cries. However sympathetic this might make viewers, it still reveals how completely oblivious she really is. She is just adding fuel to the media's fire by giving them more sound bites, do these people STILL not understand how this all works? I do agree that they were most likely sweet talked into making an appearance on the show to try and salvage what little chance they have of saving their precious show. Money makes their little convoluted world go round. In the words of Bon Jovi: ohhhh oh livin' on a prayer :whistle:

[2manyKidzzz]

I wonder if Derick resigned already from WM. He can always get a job with his substantial credentials. It makes me sick to think of all of the children they could have. Think "Five under five, ten under ten", Derick and think again about all of this. Exhausted wife, screaming kids. I guess Joy Anna could be their nanny/housekeeper, so sad for them all.

People forget that their are poor people right in this country that could use their assistance. I mean, real help, not religious conversion. But I guess that doesn't mean anything to just feed the hungry.

I didn't think Hindus (Nepal) were open to or looking for conversaion to Christianity but i haven't made a study of it.

[Nic]

A little weird semantics for me... both Jimchelle and then the daughters have said...

-people call us hypocrites because we were pretending to be this perfect family. We never said we were perfect. Who called them hypocrites for that? They're hypocrites for calling others molesters... telling people how to live... general judging.

-people calling Josh a rapist... has anyone called him a rapist? I've heard child molester, pervert, deviant, sick little monkey etc but not rapist. They're the only ones I've heard use rapist.

Are they doing the old trick of saying the most extreme so people (sub)consciously are like phew at least he's not a rapist or they said not 'perfect'

[SassyPants]

Jillymuffin makes a complete contradiction of herself by doing this interview; she is upset because the public found out about the scandal and the victims never wanted it to see the light of day. Yet as much as there was speculation on who the victims were, this could have gone on forever without us every knowing exactly who was involved (I realize it wasn't very difficult to figure it out, but testimony is the only real proof in this case). "WE'RE the VICTIMS! How could they do this to us?" she cries. However sympathetic this might make viewers, it still reveals how completely oblivious she really is. She is just adding fuel to the media's fire by giving them more sound bites, do these people STILL not understand how this all works? I do agree that they were most likely sweet talked into making an appearance on the show to try and salvage what little chance they have of saving their precious show. Money makes their little convoluted world go round. In the words of Bon Jovi: ohhhh oh livin' on a prayer :whistle:

Exactly. Really, no one except Josh really knows the full truth. It sounds like during awake periods he preyed on younger girls as an older girl would have been too much of a risk.

Someone yesterday spoke about the possibility that Josh was acting out for attention. I can see that. I wonder if the reason he didn't purportedly involve Jana was because he did not resent her as much as all the others. He probably was too young to do much for Jana.

Imagine it. All you want is a little individual attention and all your parents keep doing is adding more reasons why you would never get any attention. Plus, with each kid your work load increased.

[EmmieJ]

Losing the show is one thing, but losing support in terms of political allies, speaking engagements, etc. is a whole other problem for them. If Jim Bob stays persona non grata, that has got to hit him both in the pocket book and ego. Some people will always support them no matter what but those numbers may dwindle. This situation with Josh has allowed America to look behind the curtain, so to speak, and see what is really going on in the family.

Yes, JimBob's going to take a double hit, to the wallet and to his massive ego. Even politicians as crazy as Huckabee have advisors who were finally able to persuade him that continuing to stand with the Duggars is the kiss of death for his political aspirations. Santorum already publicly spoke out against Josh. The only politicians who might still want to be publicly associated with this family are going to be serious fringe people, people that don't even have a veneer of likeability. Hey, maybe Ted Nugent will reach out a welcoming hand; he's a creepy sex offender too.

JimBob will never accept his responsibility in any of this, and neither will Michele. They still believe that they did the best they could. They will never think any different. I hope that their children can slowly figure out their own lives, separate from their parents' ideology and incredible stupidity. That road won't be easy for any of them. But if they could at least break away as normal adult children break away from their parents, move out on their own, marry whomever they choose, and at least tentatively explore the big, bad outside world, maybe some of them will realize that there is a better life away from their parents and ATI/Gothard.

[EmmieJ]

You make a lot of very valid points. Tonitown isn't a very big place, it will be interesting to see how much this scandal affects their ability to keep their home a sanctuary. Not saying that this won't eventually blow over, because it probably will, but JB must making deals with a lot of people if he is out there selling real estate. They definitely aren't going anywhere anytime soon, with their custom built (ware)house, that puppy isn't a money issue for them. But that being said, you can't live in a bubble forever and without the income from TLC, they are going to have to work a lot harder to keep their zoo of children running. They've already had at least one public appearance cancelled by the host, and as everyone knows, that is another source of income for them and has been for a long time, and I'm sure it won't be the last time they are removed from an event. The last 10 years have been pretty smooth sailing for the D clan, let's see how they do living life as regular people for the next 10.

I wonder exactly how good JimBob is at real estate. I have a feeling his expertise has been oversold, and that he was lucky in his timing - being more involved in the real estate market during the boom years before the bubble burst.

I'm sure he has squirreled away a lot of money over the years the show has been on the air, but he's got to be having some panicky thoughts as he re-assesses his financial situation now. 16 offspring still living at home; but he's actually supporting all 19. Josh is unemployed with a wife and soon to be 4 kids. Who is going to pay off his back taxes for him? Thank goodness Derick has a paying job. He better keep it. Jessa and Ben have no income, except for what JimBob provides for them. So yes, he's got a lot of dependents. Will he start pushing them out of the nest faster now? I would think so. Money is what matters most to JimBob, and keeping most of it matters most of all. I do believe he thinks he can take it with him when he goes off to meet his maker!

[SassyPants]

I wonder exactly how good JimBob is at real estate. I have a feeling his expertise has been oversold, and that he was lucky in his timing - being more involved in the real estate market during the boom years before the bubble burst.

I'm sure he has squirreled away a lot of money over the years the show has been on the air, but he's got to be having some panicky thoughts as he re-assesses his financial situation now. 16 offspring still living at home; but he's actually supporting all 19. Josh is unemployed with a wife and soon to be 4 kids. Who is going to pay off his back taxes for him? Thank goodness Derick has a paying job. He better keep it. Jessa and Ben have no income, except for what JimBob provides for them. So yes, he's got a lot of dependents. Will he start pushing them out of the nest faster now? I would think so. Money is what matters most to JimBob, and keeping most of it matters most of all. I do believe he thinks he can take it with him when he goes off to meet his maker!

I think Josh paid off his back taxes (likely JB did). I read it somewhere- cannot remember where.

Real estate is about hustling= JB does not hustle or at least he hasn't in a good many years,

[Nic]

I'm creeped out by them normalizing getting turned on by a little kid sitting on a boys lap. By not allowing the little girls on their older brothers lap, they are basically saying, they expect that this action will cause arousal. And it shouldn't.The boys are told Im assuming no little girls on your laps-- do they know the reason why? I wonder how that feels to have your mom and dad think you will get all hot and bothered if your little sister sits on your lap?

And btw, if their little sister sitting on any of their lap does cause arousal, there is a bigger issue there that needs to be addressed.

[iammine]

I'm creeped out by them normalizing getting turned on by a little kid sitting on a boys lap. By not allowing the little girls on their older brothers lap, they are basically saying, they expect that this action will cause arousal. And it shouldn't.The boys are told Im assuming no little girls on your laps-- do they know the reason why? I wonder how that feels to have your mom and dad think you will get all hot and bothered if your little sister sits on your lap?

And btw, if their little sister sitting on any of their lap does cause arousal, there is a bigger issue there that needs to be addressed.

That's kind of what I wonder. Without sounding too morbid but- if "curiously" was the motive you have to wonder, was there arousal? Especially with the book incident. You have to wonder... And although we will ever know this... That would answer a lot of the questions here in and of itself.

Also- I think the "safeguards" are so infuriating because it

sounds like all the boys were (are) treated like offenders, except for the actual offender who is excused time and time again!

[HarleyQuinn]

Someone tried to argue with me at work today about those records being released illegally. It was cute. :lol:

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Are we 100% sure that Derek still has his job? I read somewhere that the upcoming season was already filmed and that one of the episodes filmed was the announcement that the Dillards were going to Nepal on a mission (JB was said to have turned white with shock.) That sounds like to me that he may have already turned in his notice.

Which makes me wonder if WalMart would have continued to give him as much time off as he wanted so that he could film the show now that the Duggar Family brand is tainted. Have Derek work for them is not quite the cachet as it was 6 months ago. I don't think they would fire him but if he has asked for 3 months off so he can go on a mission they might reconsider holding his job.

[MarcyMM]

The more I think about it, I can't believe that Bin isn't completely seething about all of this. At the very least on the inside and/or behind closed doors with just Jessa. He grew up with sisters. Unless he did the same thing as Josh, he's got to be thinking 'what the hell man, those are your SISTERS!!!'

[Nic]

The more I think about it, I can't believe that Bin isn't completely seething about all of this. At the very least on the inside and/or behind closed doors with just Jessa. He grew up with sisters. Unless he did the same thing as Josh, he's got to be thinking 'what the hell man, those are your SISTERS!!!'

That would be our values. These are different people working with a different value set. Given that, it's totally conceivable that even if he is skeeved about the idea of molesting your sisters, Josh has been forgiven.

[justoneoftwo]

That would be our values. These are different people working with a different value set. Given that, it's totally conceivable that even if he is skeeved about the idea of molesting your sisters, Josh has been forgiven.

Remember, not forgiving is a sin.

[MarcyMM]

Sorry, you guys are right, I did forget that the most important thing is that Josh is forgiven. Good gravy.... :pull-hair:

[smallestneal]

Are we 100% sure that Derek still has his job? I read somewhere that the upcoming season was already filmed and that one of the episodes filmed was the announcement that the Dillards were going to Nepal on a mission (JB was said to have turned white with shock.) That sounds like to me that he may have already turned in his notice.

Which makes me wonder if WalMart would have continued to give him as much time off as he wanted so that he could film the show now that the Duggar Family brand is tainted. Have Derek work for them is not quite the cachet as it was 6 months ago. I don't think they would fire him but if he has asked for 3 months off so he can go on a mission they might reconsider holding his job.

Sorta ot, but Izzy is less than a year old?????? W h y are they taking their infant to a disaster area? Across the globe? Is that ok? I'm not a parent. I assume their mission work will be w/earthquake aftermath stuff.

But Derek's job--I think it'll come down to whether or not they really considered him positive publicity. IDK, they shilled for walmart on IG, didn't they? If I were walmart (lol), I wouldn't want to associate with the Duggar brand in any kind of advertising/publicity way.

Maybe they'll tell him to stop posting about walmart or something? I might be being too hopeful, but they do have an infant. :( I hope that Derek stays consistently employed. Probably.

[Nic]

Sorry, you guys are right, I did forget that the most important thing is that Josh is forgiven. Good gravy.... :pull-hair:

It's ok. You can't help that you are obviously such a heathen that the concept of forgiveness and grace is forgettable.

Actually, from what I've gathered from ol Bin, he's probably really really impressed with himself that he is able to forgive such a transgression. As soon as he is allowed back on social media, I'm expecting there to be some posts about his Jesusosity.

[MarcyMM]

Erin Merryn speaks!

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/abuse-s ... 00852.html