Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 12

[iammine]

Sorta ot, but Izzy is less than a year old?????? W h y are they taking their infant to a disaster area? Across the globe? Is that ok? I'm not a parent. I assume their mission work will be w/earthquake aftermath stuff.

But Derek's job--I think it'll come down to whether or not they really considered him positive publicity. IDK, they shilled for walmart on IG, didn't they? If I were walmart (lol), I wouldn't want to associate with the Duggar brand in any kind of advertising/publicity way.

Maybe they'll tell him to stop posting about walmart or something? I might be being too hopeful, but they do have an infant. :( I hope that Derek stays consistently employed. Probably.

I don't exactly think Walmart is too worried about negative publicity... I think most of walmart's publicity is already pretty awful. Lol

[December]

Erin Merryn speaks!

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/abuse-s ... 00852.html

She says she gives them credit for at least not being in denial that he did it... but minimizing what happened *is* denial. And if there's anything the program the other night showed, it's that their entire defense was to minimize it -- they were asleep and don't remember, it was over the clothes, etc. And it's true when she says the girls are experiencing shame from the whole world knowing they were victims of their brother's molestation. But what about the shame from the parents to the girls? :pull-hair:

[Nic]

She says she gives them credit for at least not being in denial that he did it... but minimizing what happened *is* denial. And if there's anything the program the other night showed, it's that their entire defense was to minimize it -- they were asleep and don't remember, it was over the clothes, etc. And it's true when she says the girls are experiencing shame from the whole world knowing they were victims of their brother's molestation. But what about the shame from the parents to the girls? :pull-hair:

And that he was just "a little too curious about girls"

[ClaraOswin]

I will be surprised if the show comes back in any form in the near future. Though I could see it reappearing in a year or so. Sort of like how the Gosselins seemed to disappear for a while but are back now (yuck.)

[EmmieJ]

The more I think about it, I can't believe that Bin isn't completely seething about all of this. At the very least on the inside and/or behind closed doors with just Jessa. He grew up with sisters. Unless he did the same thing as Josh, he's got to be thinking 'what the hell man, those are your SISTERS!!!'

I would have thought so, except Ben's dad posted his support of the Duggars and Josh. So Ben was raised with the same twisted viewpoints as the Duggars - men/boys cannot control their urges, so it's not really their fault. Girls/women are usually somehow at least partially at fault when men/boys make "mistakes."

[SassyPants]

I will be surprised if the show comes back in any form in the near future. Though I could see it reappearing in a year or so. Sort of like how the Gosselins seemed to disappear for a while but are back now (yuck.)

I think the Gosselins are on a "see how it goes in terms of market share #s, 5 specials a year" type of contract.

I never thought I would say this, the Duggars' behaviors are just as bad and maybe even worse than Jon and Kate's-

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I would take what Erin Merryn says with a giant grain of salt-- she put the Duggar's endorsement of her on the first page of her book so she is obviously going to try to be as positive as possible about them. She thinks the reason that Jessa and Jill are being so supportive of Josh is because they are trying to shield their folks. I think it is more a case of trying to save their celebrity princess lifestyle.

[Cochise]

I wonder about JB's skills as a realtor, too. If you admired him or his family then maybe he'd be a good salesman. But otherwise . . . the interview on Wednesday suggested he has LOUSY people skills and doesn't know how he's coming across. Presumably they thought that interview would have everybody loving them. Not hardly, Jim Bob.

So if the show is blown, how much will JB and the other adult men have to scramble to support his eleventy seven relatives and counting? How much real estate would he have to sell? And would people want to hire such a creepy figure now? If you were in the market for a used car, lived nearby, and someone in the family liked the show, I can see that it might once have been kind of appealing to buy a used car from Jim Bob's lot, especially if you were all for the Duggars and felt you might as well put money in their pockets as in anybody else's.

But I'm guessing (but just guessing) that after Josh's crimes came out and after Jim Bob and Michelle's massive PR disaster of Wednesday, local people who might once have figured buying a car from them was a good plan might now find their stomachs curdling at the idea of visiting his lot and running into Josh or JB, much less handing over money. JB and Michelle were so much all about themselves, how they did everything right (even though the abuse continued), and so on . . . they kind of made me sick and probably made their neighbors at least a bit that way. But then my dislike of them is pretty extreme, so who knows?

Anyhow--what I'm really curious about is, if the show's gone, how much money do they need to keep going and have the whole clan live above the poverty line?

[justoneoftwo]

Was this a PR disaster in general? I'm reading some articles that are not wholly negative.

Also its possible he was better as a salesman back before he became famous and spent years being told everything he did was wonderful and godly.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Skulduggery makes an interesting point over in the other thread:

And how does this affect the boys, I wonder? How out of touch are these parents with their own kids that they couldn't see that Josh was one boy out of many; and that since they couldn't see warning signs in Josh, they subsequently treated ALL the boys like they were suspect after the fact which punishes them for doing nothing wrong.

It got me wondering if those idiot parents had a "one size fits all" mentality when it came to parenting, choosing to treat all of their individual children like one entity. "You all like pickles." "You all get car sick." "You all like spelling." "You all hate reading." etc. I can easily imagine them deciding that if a problem arose, it was easier to make changes across the board. For example if one child choked on a jelly bean then no jelly beans were ever allowed in the house again.

[SnazzyNazzy]

Was this a PR disaster in general? I'm reading some articles that are not wholly negative.

Also its possible he was better as a salesman back before he became famous and spent years being told everything he did was wonderful and godly.

Personally, I think if they would have kept their mouths shut, and laid low for a while, they would have fared better. Especially after the Megyn Kelly interview, they look like desperate, defensive asshats, who totally lost the plot.

[SassyPants]

Skulduggery makes an interesting point over in the other thread:

It got me wondering if those idiot parents had a "one size fits all" mentality when it came to parenting, choosing to treat all of their individual children like one entity. "You all like pickles." "You all get car sick." "You all like spelling." "You all hate reading." etc. I can easily imagine them deciding that if a problem arose, it was easier to make changes across the board. For example if one child choked on a jelly bean then no jelly beans were ever allowed in the house again.

The do whatever is easiest approach....that's how Duggar Time was born.

[Nic]

The do whatever is easiest approach....that's how Duggar Time was born.

Hey if they can all get ear infections, they can all catch sexual predation too...

[DaughteroftheFSM]

The Duggars have raised their family for 25+ years with Revisionist History. They interpreted what history they would teach their children at homeschool. JB's word was 2nd to God's and they interpreted the Bible and reinforced it selectively to suit their beliefs. They've been isolated for a long time and "fact" was whatever JB and M said it was. It's like Germany after WW2 when they were still teaching in the 1980s that the Holocaust was propaganda and the killing of Jews never happened.

For a whole lot of years, JB's word was law and was not to be challenged by his obedient kids and devotees. As they became more popular in the media, the media offered ironclad proof of problems in the household. But you notice how JB and M still insist their interpretation of the events is actual and factual? They decide what laws apply and what punishments are put into place. Because they only answer to God.

Now people all over the world see how things work inside one of these male-dominated religious mega family compounds. JB is the "headship" of the family. If something were to happen to him, who would be the new male leader of the family? Yep... The oldest son, Josh the pervert. But they hold him in such high regard that they can't find fault with his morals and upbringing. He's the oldest son, the leader of his own Quiverfull family and a role model to all 18 younger children and to the world. He was so revered that he became the leader of the Family Research Council and he spoke about how God would condemn all sorts of people for their actions, beliefs and lifestyles. But you notice how JB & M have never said God would condemn Josh? Nope... Their God forgave Josh a long time ago because he made amends with God and all is good now.

The fact that this sort of brain-washing is still happening in the world is shocking. It's out of place in the Information Age - especially when you see so many of the older Duggar kids carrying smart phones and tweeting selfies. But they still don't question Dad's word and apparently they don't use their phones to research the laws that people claim have been violated in their camp. They don't need to: Because Mom, Dad and their oldest Brother will tell them what is right and wrong in the world. In short, they are right and anyone mocking them or finding fault with their ways is wrong.

They are the center of the world as far as they're concerned. Everything revolves around them and their God (according to their interpretation of Him). No amount of facts or web comments by the gazillion is going to sway their thinking. In fact, if you don't believe them, you must be part of the rabid, homosexual, liberal conspiracy against them - the one that relies on bribes and must have violated their rights and probably many laws to smear the Duggar's good name. It's easier to believe that (for them) than to believe the documented truth.

To the bolded: I know it's not the main point of your argument here, but do you have any evidece to back up your claim? As a matter of fact, I grew up in Germany and went to school there in the 80s, and this is simply not true! Quite the opposite tbh, I remeber no other topic that was covered as extensively as WW2 and the Holocaust in history education troughout my entire school time, and rightfully so! I know there are still Holocaust deniers up to this day (remember PP's video ad Zsu's advertising blog post about it?), but they are a very small minority here in Germany, it is (and was in the 80s) even illegal to make such a statement! So maybe you might want to check your sources or, even better, don't present things like facts you obviously don't know much about .

[MoonFace]

Just wondering if JB, as a realtor, would stick to his religious guns and not sell a house to a gay couple or an unmarried couple who planned to live there as husband and wife?

[SassyPants]

Just wondering if JB, as a realtor, would stick to his religious guns and not sell a house to a gay couple or an unmarried couple who planned to live there as husband and wife?

Using the Duggar Motto of "Nothing before Money," I'd say he'd likely sell them the house....and then add a healthy dose of his opinion on their practices.

[HairToday]

To the bolded: I know it's not the main point of your argument here, but do you have any evidece to back up your claim? As a matter of fact, I grew up in Germany and went to school there in the 80s, and this is simply not true! Quite the opposite tbh, I remeber no other topic that was covered as extensively as WW2 and the Holocaust in history education troughout my entire school time, and rightfully so! I know there are still Holocaust deniers up to this day (remember PP's video ad Zsu's advertising blog post about it?), but they are a very small minority here in Germany, it is (and was in the 80s) even illegal to make such a statement! So maybe you might want to check your sources or, even better, don't present things like facts you obviously don't know much about .

I appreciate you asking. And I do have evidence and two German nationals who were raised and educated there until the early 90s. It may depend in part on the type of school you attended and, if you are/were a German citizen, the type of school you test into. They are adamant as is a 3rd individual who lived in Augsberg for more than 8 years, that locals still claim the holocaust was propaganda and a media campaign to make Germany look like the cause of the war.

Which they largely were. But to discuss the holocaust with that mindset - actually to introduce the facts of the holocaust to them - resulted in them vehemently calling me and others liars. Until they were faced with so much evidence of fact that they couldn't deny it. That left them feeling - to this day - that they were only taught what they were allowed to learn.

Exactly like the Duggars.

[Nic]

Using the Duggar Motto of "Nothing before Money," I'd say he'd likely sell them the house....and then add a healthy dose of his opinion on their practices.

He'd refer to them as roommates and do his dumb chuckle. Then if his peers found out, he'd said he didn't know. Hate the sin not the money--- I mean sinner

[Tiny Bubbles]

Further to the holocaust comments, a few years ago, while touring Germany, a friend and I saw the former Dachau concentration camp near Munich. It would not have been my idea of a valuable day trip, but this was something my friend wanted to see and ultimately I was glad that we went.

I felt the history of this site was very sensitively presented. There were many school groups touring the Dachau historical site. I can't vouch for the truth of this, but our guide told us that it is now the law that German schoolchildren must visit a former concentration camp to learn the story behind it.

I was very impressed by this attitude, but was also happy to see that many schoolkids were just being kids and not overly cowed by it all. Nevertheless, it will be much harder for any of them to deny the holocaust happened after having walked through the site and barracks.

[HairToday]

Further to the holocaust comments, a few years ago, while touring Germany, a friend and I saw the former Dachau concentration camp near Munich. It would not have been my idea of a valuable day trip, but this was something my friend wanted to see and ultimately I was glad that we went.

I felt the history of this site was very sensitively presented. There were many school groups touring the Dachau historical site. I can't vouch for the truth of this, but our guide told us that it is now the law that German schoolchildren must visit a former concentration camp to learn the story behind it.

I was very impressed by this attitude, but was also happy to see that many schoolkids were just being kids and not overly cowed by it all. Nevertheless, it will be much harder for any of them to deny the holocaust happened after having walked through the site and barracks.

I'm very glad to hear laws have been enacted since my experiences in the 80s and 90s (which I cited as being in the 80s & 90s). To get us back on topic, I hope laws will be enacted to require better exposure for homeschooled fundies to require they be educated on healthy boundaries with family members. You wouldn't think that should be required as parents should be able to do it - but the Duggars did it far too late - if at all with their young children.

[2manyKidzzz]

The Duggars are blinded by their religous/cult beliefs on all fronts.

And so it goes.

[straygoldfish]

The girls keep saying that they didn't know what had happened.... and while that may be because they were asleep, I wonder if it's because, even if they woke up, they are SO poorly informed about their own bodies, they had no way of comprehending what was happening or the implications of it.

[wildlingrose]

I truly believe they have experienced slut shaming for being touched they immediately switch topics.

Jessa's eyebrows move as if she is trying to swallow this stuff. It seems to emphasize things I find very hard to believe.

I feel very bad for Jill and Jessa at the timing of this disclosure as they are expecting or new mom's a very vulnerable e time for CSA survivors.

I feel concerned how long they went with out tx. The longer thinking errors persist the harder it is to treat.

In my own case the response I received, and I was 12 was a shaming from principal, we expected more from u u are such a good girl we thought. Being called a whore by my mom and sent immediately to a Bible study for girls, grounded for a month, alater they said for my own protection, and this whole awful event made known to my entire school by boys who didn't rape me but wanted to, I felt very afraid they would because they stripped me of clothes to see me nude. I can't say the effects weren't Very damaging. Then interviews by police. I didn't even know what some sexual acts the boys wanted were! I really hope they get help. I know how harmful the well thank God nothing penetrated her hymen thinking is!

I expect it will take a very long time to get perspective on this for all.

I speculate that this is how the buddy system came to be and why some of the older girls are so protective of the littler ones. How often do

Siblings thing they are protecting someone by submitting to abuse, they get talking and find out it didn't work like the 5 yo. That's the event that Josh had to leave home.

[apandaaries]

The girls keep saying that they didn't know what had happened.... and while that may be because they were asleep, I wonder if it's because, even if they woke up, they are SO poorly informed about their own bodies, they had no way of comprehending what was happening or the implications of it.

That was what I understood when Jessa said, "Oh, that's what happened," after their parents talked to her. It was like she knew something had happened but didn't have the words. It was a moment that stood out to me as a PR fail.

[Cochise]

It kind of looks like the Duggars are going to have a LOT less to say to the world soon, doesn't it? 'Cause who is going to want to listen? There isn't going to be a big enough market of Dim Buffoon and Repel's fans left to idolize them any longer, I'm gathering.

The Christian Homeschool Educators of Colorado is holding a big conference in a week or two, but the group's website is down for remodeling all of a sudden. Remodeling within a couple of weeks of the big annual conference? Oh, AS IF! I think it's because they're scrambling as to whether to dis-invite the Duggars, and they may not want publicize matters, either way.

Dim Sum and Hell'sBelle are still on the schedule as presenters, but originally they were also scheduled to provide an evening with attendees on the Friday of the convention and a pricey "Dinner with the Duggars" event. Both those events have vanished from the schedule.

The organization's Facebook page has a couple of people writing in asking them to get the Duggars out of the convention altogether. Earlier this the group said that the Duggars would be deciding today whether or not they would be able to attend, and they asked people concerned about whether or not the Duggars would attend to send the group email rather than leave messages on the group or convention's website, where such items can be read by the public . . . whatever decision the Homeschool group makes, there are going to be people unhappy with them and possibly wanting their money back. So I'm beginning to think that it's not the Duggars who are going to decide whether or not they're coming to Colorado.

Man, when even a Christian homeschooling organization begins to hear "PLEASE don't have the Duggars attend!" the Duggars are OVER as public figures. And THEN what will they do to feed all those kids?

I kind of like the idea that Jim Bob has been selling the doctrine that women shouldn't work outside of the home, only because there aren't that many adult men in the clan to support all the women and children. And Josh isn't among them, for the foreseeable future. Jim Bob might actually have to WORK, not live off of TLC and gigs at homeschooling conferences!