Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors- Part 3

[MotherOfDragons]

What happened to these innocent girls makes me sick to my stomach. :( Still, reading the police report, I have a nagging suspicion in the back of my mind that won't go away. I hate to say this, but I feel that there is a strong possibility that something more egregious than sexual fondling happened, but that the young & thoroughly brainwashed girls were heavily coached on what to say and what not to say to the police about what happened to them. I think Jim Bob & Michelle got them to downplay Josh's actions much like JB, Michelle, and Josh are still doing right now in their statements.

It also gives me pause to think that it's possible that Josh wasn't just inappropriate with the girls in the family... But with the boys as well. We all know that that would be all but impossible for any fundie to admit, much less talk on record about. Maybe Siah wasn't sent to ALERT for so long because of anything that he did, but for not being able to get past/forgive/forget something that may have happened to him in the past.

Let me be 100% clear on this: I'm not trying to start rumors. I'm genuinely crushed that this crime happened at all; I've felt nauseous since I read the police report when the news broke.

Fuck you, Jim Bob & Michelle, for choosing to protect the one who was doing all the damage, and not protecting the children who actually needed it. If I believed that hell existed, this is where I would tell you that you both deserve to burn in it. :angry-fire:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm so incredibly sick of this "he was just a kid" crap.

Normal teenage boys do not do the things Josh did to his sisters - one apparently only 4 or 5 at the time. There has never been any talk of John or Joe doing any such thing to their sisters, so we can't dump it all on fundyism or the household. Something is very wrong with Josh. He may well be a sociopath.

I have a 13 1/2 year old son. I can't imagine him doing such a thing to little girls. But if heaven forbid something did happen, I would immediately get him - and the victims - the best treatment I possibly could.

Nothing good can come of the way Jim Bob and Michelle handled this. Not for Josh and certainly not for their daughters. And the boys will be boys shit is another reminder of the right wing's embrace of rape culture. Another election cycle, and here we go again.

No normal boy acts like this to anyone, regardless of their relationship to the victim. Josh's actions were clearly based on a need for power and control. Possibly on the trill of doing something he could get in trouble for. It was enabled by bad parenting. It was enabled by other bad authority figures. It was never truly corrected. And, there's no proof it didn't happen again after the investigation, only his word that he's a changed man. But his word is meaningless. Especially when you look at the other things he's said.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I saw a post saying that people should be more understanding of Josh because his sisters are so hot. :ew: I probably shouldn't be, but I'm just astounded at how many people are actually defending a child molester.

Rape culture is a wonderful thing...

[Honeysuckle]

I saw a post saying that people should be more understanding of Josh because his sisters are so hot. :ew: I probably shouldn't be, but I'm just astounded at how many people are actually defending a child molester.

What the everloving fuck.

Four years old.

FOUR YEARS OLD.

[flyingxchanges]

Jane Doe Victim 1 actually referring to the polic report, or could they just have picked a random number?

If it isn't random, then Joy wasn't the one to destroy the report. The name of the first victim is quite short.

The motion to destroy the police report states that Jane Doe 1 is a minor. So it would have to be Joy since she's the only one that was involved who is still a minor.

[Arrowland]

Lurker turned poster.

A thought struck me in the craziness of yesterday. Something that always struck me as odd during one of the first specials. If I'm remembering timing correctly, this could correlate to the abuse. Before they moved into the TTH, they showed the kids watching their previous home being demolished. I remember thinking how weird that seemed and was probably scary/traumatic for young kids to watch their home be destroyed. Now I wonder if this was a symbolic gesture for the Duggars-bad things happened in this house but it is gone just like Josh's bad choices. Warped enough logic for the Duggars.

On another note, I wonder if this coming out could drive a wedge between the older girls. They've been conditioned to forgive and been taught that Josh is a good man. I can see Jessa and Jill's thinking changing (hopefully) with the help of their in laws and husbands. The girls at home I can see not understanding what the big deal is and even being upset if Jessa and Jill change their thinking about this whole situation.

I went back and re-watched "Digging In" on DVR tonight with similar thoughts. The timing of this - at the season finle - is interesting. Note the pinched expressions on JB and M's faces during this episode. I think they knew SHTF, TeOTWAWKI., etc. Also noting Derrick's abscence and Jill's short appearance.

[Aggie2145]

Jane Doe Victim 1 actually referring to the polic report, or could they just have picked a random number?

If it isn't random, then Joy wasn't the one to destroy the report. The name of the first victim is quite short.

"Doe" numbers are applied based on their appearance in court. So as the first victim appearing before the judge, she was named Jane Doe Victim 1. And even though she identified herself as a minor, if any of the victims petitioned, they would be Jane Doe 1-5.

[Feberin]

I am in utter shock and disgust that this is true. I feel like I've posted so many times over the past years defending Josh and insisting that it was just rumors. And now I just feel so bad for those girls.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

What happened to these innocent girls makes me sick to my stomach. :( Still, reading the police report, I have a nagging suspicion in the back of my mind that won't go away. I hate to say this, but I feel that there is a strong possibility that something more egregious than sexual fondling happened, but that the young & thoroughly brainwashed girls were heavily coached on what to say and what not to say to the police about what happened to them. I think Jim Bob & Michelle got them to downplay Josh's actions much like JB, Michelle, and Josh are still doing right now in their statements.

It also gives me pause to think that it's possible that Josh wasn't just inappropriate with the girls in the family... But with the boys as well. We all know that that would be all but impossible for any fundie to admit, much less talk on record about. Maybe Siah wasn't sent to ALERT for so long because of anything that he did, but for not being able to get past/forgive/forget something that may have happened to him in the past.

Let me be 100% clear on this: I'm not trying to start rumors. I'm genuinely crushed that this crime happened at all; I've felt nauseous since I read the police report when the news broke.

Fuck you, Jim Bob & Michelle, for choosing to protect the one who was doing all the damage, and not protecting the children who actually needed it. If I believed that hell existed, this is where I would tell you that you both deserve to burn in it. :angry-fire:

Oh no. I completely agree with you. They were coached. They were probably coached to tell as little of the truth as possible. I honestly think that this probably went on for years, probably even after the investigation. It's hard to keep track of one child out of 19 and 20 acres is a lot of space to find a private moment.

I think the fact that he had his own room meant that he wasn't viewed as safe even among his brothers. This could be them thinking he might poison his brothers' hearts or whatever, or it could be he posed a real threat. I wouldn't say he was necessarily molesting them, but Josh molested his sisters for power and control. He probably found ways to get power/control over his brothers through other kinds of abuse.

I also firmly believe the 5th sister was molested but she had internalized enough of the guilt and shame by then to admit to it. And I don't doubt there are other victims. If JB and Michelle thought the trouble was in the past, or that their guests were safe, they wouldn't send the boys out to the bus when company came over or send JD and Josh to sleep outside the bus when the family was traveling together. No. The Duggars new that Josh was an ongoing problem. They made their daughters lie to the investigators. And they carried on like all was fine.

[singsingsing]

I wonder if they knew when it was being filmed that this was about to go down. It aired on Tuesday, coincidentally (?) the day the report was printed, but it was filmed before that. Jill says Israel is four weeks old, so it would've been filmed maybe a week and a half to two weeks before it aired. It will be really interesting if the full story starts to come out... was this a sudden thing, like this gossip mag applied and was granted access and the Duggars found out only this week? Or has this been going on behind the scenes for a long time?

[3DMommy]

I'm just sick reading this. My heart breaks for the girls involved. I just want to cry. I couldn't get through more than a few pages of the police report.

As someone who was sexually assaulted both as a child and later as a young woman only to have it swept under the rug and who is now mother to two boys, I would KILL my boys if they ever did something like this. Jesus doesn't make everything better.

[zadie]

"Doe" numbers are applied based on their appearance in court. So as the first victim appearing before the judge, she was named Jane Doe Victim 1. And even though she identified herself as a minor, if any of the victims petitioned, they would be Jane Doe 1-5.

Ah I see. I knew something didn't add up with the number. Thanks for clarifying that.

[MotherOfDragons]

I saw a post saying that people should be more understanding of Josh because his sisters are so hot. :ew: I probably shouldn't be, but I'm just astounded at how many people are actually defending a child molester.

How incredibly vile! What the fuck is wrong with these people? :angry-banghead: :wtf:

[Rescinded and Mended]

The police report states that all the girls reported the abuse to their parents as soon as it happened. I'm not sure I really believe that. Theirs is a culture of shame - what is it that would recommend the girls to go to their parents as soon as it happened? They've been taught from birth that they are inherently sinful as women because of Eve eating the forbidden fruit, that their only worth lies in wifely submission and motherhood, that if they are assaulted, it's because they tempted their attackers through immodesty. If I were one of the victims, I'm not certain I would want to tell Michelle and Jim Bob because I wouldn't be able to trust them. Even if these poor girls couldn't quite articulate or rationalize why they couldn't trust their parents, they would still feel ashamed.

I wonder if this was something that both parents told the police in order to make themselves look as if they had taken a more pro-active approach toward the situation, instead of letting Josh continue the cycle of abuse over time.

[zadie]

Oh no. I completely agree with you. They were coached. They were probably coached to tell as little of the truth as possible. I honestly think that this probably went on for years, probably even after the investigation. It's hard to keep track of one child out of 19 and 20 acres is a lot of space to find a private moment.

I think the fact that he had his own room meant that he wasn't viewed as safe even among his brothers. This could be them thinking he might poison his brothers' hearts or whatever, or it could be he posed a real threat. I wouldn't say he was necessarily molesting them, but Josh molested his sisters for power and control. He probably found ways to get power/control over his brothers through other kinds of abuse.

I also firmly believe the 5th sister was molested but she had internalized enough of the guilt and shame by then to admit to it. And I don't doubt there are other victims. If JB and Michelle thought the trouble was in the past, or that their guests were safe, they wouldn't send the boys out to the bus when company came over or send JD and Josh to sleep outside the bus when the family was traveling together. No. The Duggars new that Josh was an ongoing problem. They made their daughters lie to the investigators. And they carried on like all was fine.

The worst part is that if he did manage to find a private moment with one of them after the fact and did something inappropriate, it wouldn't matter if they called him out on it. Even if the girl said "you're being inappropriate, stop" At that point JB/M already handed them a protocol for how this works. All Josh would have to do is say sorry, and he's still struggling, and ask them to pray for him. At that point they would probably feel so much guilt, and know telling their parents is useless, that they would forgive him.

[ariel9]

I bet there is even more craziness out there and to think we used to snark about episodes such as wedding being sanitized beyond their life.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I am in utter shock and disgust that this is true. I feel like I've posted so many times over the past years defending Josh and insisting that it was just rumors. And now I just feel so bad for those girls.

I've said it in other threads, but I am right there with you. I always thought this was some kind of sick rumor that wouldn't die because the internet doesn't know how to let anything go. I thought the "kernel of truth" was that something made Josh "impure," but was consensual. I thought that, if anything, JB or the girl's father found out and overreacted.

I also thought that JB, despite his flaws, loved his daughters and would do anything to protect them (even if his methods were far from helpful). I thought he wouldn't let something like this happen to any of his daughters.

I thought Michelle, despite her detached parenting and obsessions with being pregnant/having infants, would prize her daughters. I thought Michelle would protect her daughters. I thought Michelle would have a hidden mama bear mode that would come out when her babies were threatened.

I never would have believed that Josh could be so sick as to sexually abuse his sisters. I never thought he would inappropriately handle his 4/5 year old sister. I never thought JB and Michelle would purposefully shut down the investigation. I never thought JB and Michelle would make their daughters live with their abuser. I never thought they'd expose more daughters to a known abuser. I never thought they'd be ones to further indoctrinate their kids when there was undeniable proof of the failures in their belief systems.

[zadie]

The police report states that all the girls reported the abuse to their parents as soon as it happened. I'm not sure I really believe that. Theirs is a culture of shame - what is it that would recommend the girls to go to their parents as soon as it happened? They've been taught from birth that they are inherently sinful as women because of Eve eating the forbidden fruit, that their only worth lies in wifely submission and motherhood, that if they are assaulted, it's because they tempted their attackers through immodesty. If I were one of the victims, I'm not certain I would want to tell Michelle and Jim Bob because I wouldn't be able to trust them. Even if these poor girls couldn't quite articulate or rationalize why they couldn't trust their parents, they would still feel ashamed.

I wonder if this was something that both parents told the police in order to make themselves look as if they had taken a more pro-active approach toward the situation, instead of letting Josh continue the cycle of abuse over time.

Where in the report did it say they reported it right away? From what I got from it, he came into their room more than once and they didn't tell until I guess somehow they realized it happened to all of them. Then they say it happened to someone else later in time.

I don't know how long they waited, but it does seem they didn't tell until they found some sort of solidarity amongst each other.

[mackerel snapper]

I haven't read through all the posts, so sorry if this has already been covered. But many people have wished for the 3 older girls still living at home to pack up and leave. Trust me, I wish they would. But I can't help thinking how devastating that would be for the 4 youngest girls, especially Johannah, Jennifer and Jordyn (Josie will always be the special snowflake).They have already lost two of the sister moms to marriage, and to lose the rest would be traumatic. Especially with all the upheaval that is bound to come to TTH in the next few weeks and months.

And, I can't look at those little girls in the same way anymore. Hannie who was such a spit fire is becoming dull as dishwater now, and Jennifer? We always wondered why she never smiles or laughs? I pray they are okay, they are just quiet girls and nothing else is going on there... and history is not repeating itself. They, at least, have the production crew and their older sisters looking out for them. But this house is totally dysfunctional.

[LittleOleMe]

Hey guys, I think we really need to forget the holocaust ever happened. I mean, it was like 75 years ago. :angry-banghead:

[FreeSiah]

I'm rewatching the Digging in with the Duggars special and they mention that Joseph is away at school. This special was only filmed just last weekend. So is Joe still at school? Was he at school when this scandal broke? Can you imagine being at college (especially fundie college) and having a story like this about your family becoming public knowledge? How awful. [emoji17]

[zygote373]

Reading Josh and Anna's website is horrifying in light of this information. Sorry for not quoting the posts upthread--the thread moved too fast.

But things like...

Josh: I was raised in a Christian home. As a young man, I was taught to wait for God’s best in my life partner. But as time went along and I grew older it was harder to keep my heart only for the one that God had for my life partner.

Josh: As I became a teenage young man I was constantly tempted to have lots of wrong thoughts, and often battled to keep my heart right. One of the greatest things that helped me in my struggles was my parent’s commitment to accountability. They were faithful to talk with each one of their children – if we were willing to share honestly & openly with them – to maintain a clear conscience. I learned quickly that great freedom can be achieved by accountability, and great accountability requires humility & openness. I often had failures in my early teenage years, but found I had a clear conscience only when I was willing to confess my thoughts and temptations quickly to God & my parents. (1 John 1:9)

Anna: The first night at the Duggar’s home during Bible time, Joshua shared his testimony. I was encouraged to see that there really was a young man out there who was accountable to his parents and was striving to keep his heart pure. As a girl, my parents explained that it was normal to have desires for a relationship, especially when you see a young man that had the qualities you desired in a future life partner. While at the Duggars home, I noticed Joshua had many of the things I desired in a future partner. I began to commit those desires to the Lord, and reaffirmed my commitment to wait on Him to lead through my parents in that area.

Does this mean she knew? And that he actually did tell her the first night she came to visit?? How that translates to a quality you desire in a future life partner, I don't know (though, as others have said, who knows how much detail he went into). The timeline on the websites says this visit was mid-2006, so before the police report was made.

[ariel9]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/com ... of-purity/

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I haven't read through all the posts, so sorry if this has already been covered. But many people have wished for the 3 older girls still living at home to pack up and leave. Trust me, I wish they would. But I can't help thinking how devastating that would be for the 4 youngest girls, especially Johannah, Jennifer and Jordyn (Josie will always be the special snowflake).They have already lost two of the sister moms to marriage, and to lose the rest would be traumatic. Especially with all the upheaval that is bound to come to TTH in the next few weeks and months.

And, I can't look at those little girls in the same way anymore. Hannie who was such a spit fire is becoming dull as dishwater now, and Jennifer? We always wondered why she never smiles or laughs? I pray they are okay, they are just quiet girls and nothing else is going on there... and history is not repeating itself. They, at least, have the production crew and their older sisters looking out for them. But this house is totally dysfunctional.

That production crew enabled the abuse. They don't give a rats ass about any of these girls.

I remember Michelle saying once that Hannie and Jana were very much the same when they were little. I wonder how much of Jana was lost to coping mechanisms.

I don't think the little girls were abused. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Josh has been left completely alone with them. But that doesn't mean they're not victims. Everyone in that house is a victim, either directly or indirectly.

As for Jenny never smiling, it might be her personality. It might not be. But I will say that studies have shown babies react to the emotions of people around them. Too much stress or other negative emotions exhibited in the same room as a baby by the baby's caregiver(s) negatively affects their brain development. And, other studies have shown that the more stressful a person's environment is (at any age), the more hormones related to negative feelings are released into the brain. It's probable that Jenny's disposition is in response to the environment she was raised in.

[MisUndrstd]

I can only hope that the children Ben and Jessa decide to adopt are Jessa's "buddies".