Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors- Part 3

[Cactus]

I think the redacted report was released on Tuesday as well. That's when it was printed, anyway.

This got a bit lost in the thread melee and it's a very interesting point - the release of this report doesn't seem to have come as a surprise to the Duggars. They had all week to prepare for this. They could have released a proactive statement, informed people who may or may not have already known (TLC? The Dillard and Seewald in-laws?) and generally stayed one step ahead of the media. Yet they apparently chose to do the same thing that helped get them into this mess - say nothing and hope it will all go away.

I've finally managed to catch up on this thread. It's taken me all day. My heart weeps for those poor young ladies. :cry:

[Fundie Bunny]

Did anyone else see this?

addictinginfo.org/2015/05/22/duggar-family-mentor-resigns-from-right-wing-religious-organization-amid-sex-scandal/

I thought gothard had been ''fired'' years ago. Was he still on it?

I i didn't know pecan was so high on IBLP to be realing official statements

[Cactus]

Did anyone else see this?

addictinginfo.org/2015/05/22/duggar-family-mentor-resigns-from-right-wing-religious-organization-amid-sex-scandal/

The Radar article it references is from March 2014, so it's unlikely to be connected to recent events.

[uber frau]

I haven't read the link,but it sounds like your talking about the letter Davey Waller wrote on behalf of IBLP after Bill Gothard's fall from grace last year. After he was outed for....wait for it...molesting the young girls who worked for him.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Bah this is what I get for not sleeping. But then again, why is Addicting Info treating this like it's Brand New Information? At least that's how I read it.

[Guiltygawker]

Do you think it is possible that other victims might come forward? I'm really starting to wonder...we already know of one non family member...might there be more? When you go back and read about his comments about his mistakes it seems like it might have been even more widespread than this which would just be so tragic. It makes me think of the Bill Cosby case...of course they weren't fundies...and Jim Bob probably paid off any others and their upbringing would keep them from coming forward. I just really hope there aren't others. How heartbreaking.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

OMG. Often? Often???? The revelations are gonna get worse. This is the tip of the iceberg. Were any of the other boys involved in abusing their sisters? Don't boys try to emulate and imitate the oldest brother?

Remember when Josie had a seizure, and the girls taking care of her, including Jana, didn't run down the hall to get John David the trained EMT? Why? Were the girls that reluctant to go to John David's room? That's all shades of strange right there.

Honestly, I don't think the other boys were involved in abusing their sisters. Especially when you look at their relationships with their sisters. Josh and his sisters don't have a relationship. Every other boy has a sister that has a strong relationship with them (whether it's a strong protective bond on his part of a strong maternal bond on her part). But no one (male or female) seems to WANT to be around Josh.

I also think there's a big difference between holding your oldest sibling in high esteem in a normal situation and holding him in one in an abusive situation. As I stated earlier, his predatory behaviors lead me to believe that Josh has a strong abusive nature. I believe that, even if he didn't touch his brother sexually, his brothers were victims of Josh's abuse. He could have physically or emotionally abused them.

I imagine that, in that household, alliances were formed as a way of protecting each other since it's clear that the parents didn't.

And that whole thing just got me thinking: Anna and her kids probably have not been spared his abuse. I'm not saying that he sexually abuses his children (I hope beyond hope that he doesn't), but I wouldn't be surprised if blanket training (which I'm certain they do based on "instant obedience) was his idea. And I am wondering if maybe he doesn't withhold sex from Anna out of control and berate her for not producing more kids at the same time. I used to think it was weird that Anna was seemingly more obsessed with babies than Michelle, and that she said something along the lines of having to ask Josh about the possibility of another even thought they don't use birth control; but, if he has an abusive personality, both of those make sense.

[veron1que]

And now we know why Jill wanted a girl.

We don't though. I really don't think Jill believes her first born son is going to molest his younger siblings. I think Jill just likes headbows? And it would seem Derick just has sexist views on which gender makes a better leader.

Did I miss something? Why is everyone so convinced that every Duggar actions was directly motivated by a crime that occured a decade ago? For all we know this wasn't on the forefront of anyone's mind until the report was released.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

So I've ignored a lot things that set of my "creepy molester" spidey sense (worst super power ever, lol). But now I'm gonna post my thoughts even if its kind of out there.

Why was Josh so into video/media production during the early years of the show? I always thought it was weird that this family that doesn't allow their kids to watch TV or movies had all this dedicated equipment and media space for "video production". And how did JB know exactly which cop to go to when he needed to report his son? It wasn't that he just went to a friend in law enforcement. He went to a friend in law enforcement who conveniently also had a problem with child pornography. That seems like more than coincidence.

JB has all of these children and they have this space dedicated to media production - that alone seemed fishy. But then JB was friends with police officer connected to child pornography? Something isn't right here and I think it goes deeper than Josh. I worry for these children still in the home.

No! Why would you make me think about that?! God I hope that his interest in that was purely innocent.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Hi all, yet another longtime lurker and actually registered a couple months ago, but man this is bringing us non-regular posters out.

A thought I had tonight- would it be possible that another network, like UP (knowing their love of Christian programming, and they even replay 7th Heaven now), would pick up/buy out rights from TLC for 19k and continue with the next season? I know it's happened with other reality shows, moving to a different network, but I don't know if any have faced this massive of a situation.

For the record I fully believe they should be cancelled, just wonder if UP (or another network) will feel differently....

I don't think Up could possibly spin the Duggars into a positive enough light for them to even consider putting the Duggars on their channel. The Duggars would completely tarnish Up's name.

[Fundie Bunny]

We don't though. I really don't think Jill believes her first born son is going to molest his younger siblings. I think Jill just likes headbows? And it would seem Derick just has sexist views on which gender makes a better leader.

Did I miss something? Why is everyone so convinced that every Duggar actions was directly motivated by a crime that occured a decade ago? For all we know this wasn't on the forefront of anyone's mind until the report was released.

Because all has changed. The craziest and most horrible rumor that could have been out there is true now.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I have been thinking about this for many hours and trying to figure out how to say this. Suppose one or more of the J'slaves felt something physical (which can happen to victims of molestation) when Josh put his hands on their vaginas, would Mullet blame them for being slutty.The guilt that those poor girls must be carrying is beyond belief and none of this is their fault.

I don't think it's an if. Even when you're molested or raped, your body still reacts to the physical touch. And it can cause some psychological/sexual problems in the future if not properly addressed. Many victims of sexual abuse have unhealthy relationships with sex, whether it's sex addictions, unable to get off without negative emotions, not being able to be sexually stimulated because it stirs up negative emotions.

And yes, Michelle and JB would have shamed them. No question.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

This is sickening. And probably pretty telling. In Tuesday's episode Digging in with the Duggars at approximately 30:30:00 when Jessa is discussing revealing the sex of their baby, Josh says, "I don't think you can keep a secret." And then wiggles his eyebrows in a hubba hubba sort of way. And she replies, "The dare is on..." Two days later this all surfaces. I hope in some sort of way she is behind the release of this info. Vindication. The dare is on, Joshy. Karma. :evil-eye:

I said on a previous page that, with how prepared Joy was to destroy the record the same day the redacted version was printed, I think the girls knew it was happening and they were behind it. That would have explained Josh's comment because he may have known it was coming.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I've seen a couple people mention Josh had his own room before he married Anna. When was this mentioned/shown?

Yes. And it was turned into the studio after he left.

[Captain Obvious]

I'm not saying that he sexually abuses his children (I hope beyond hope that he doesn't), but I wouldn't be surprised if blanket training (which I'm certain they do based on "instant obedience) was his idea. And I am wondering if maybe he doesn't withhold sex from Anna out of control and berate her for not producing more kids at the same time. I used to think it was weird that Anna was seemingly more obsessed with babies than Michelle, and that she said something along the lines of having to ask Josh about the possibility of another even thought they don't use birth control; but, if he has an abusive personality, both of those make sense.

Blanket training was always going to happen to those poor M-kids, given the Waller family's connection to Gothard.

I don't sense the same level of enthusiasm from Josh about Anna becoming the next clown car - so I doubt he would berate her for not having more kids, but I could totally imagine him withholding sex, maybe even deliberately withholding at her fertile times so he has control over her fertility. That control would be even more significant if indeed he is still struggling with the same issues as happened when he was a teen.

[InThePrayerCloset]

I'm coming from this a couple of perspectives - as a survivor but also someone who prosecutes religious based sexual assault.

My work with the Catholic clergy has shown that the total prohibition on any form of sexuality makes everything deviant... and as a result truly deviant behaviour is often considered the same as what others would consider normal adult relationships. So on one level i somewhat agree with what has been said up thread about the total prohibition on all forms of sexuality encouraging him to act out inappropriately, perhaps without a full appreciation of the nature of his actions.

HOWEVER, as a prosecutor, i would argue that him doing it while the older victims were sleeping demonstrates mens rea (guilty mind) and a knowledge that what he is doing is wrong. otherwise he would've done it in the open with the family around. I've seen that with adolescents with borderline personality disorder or autism spectrum disorder who masturbate etc in the middle of the living room with others around, and genuine don't appreciate that what they're doing is wrong.

the acts in the laundry room and on the younger victim sitting on a lap are a bit different at first blush, but i would characterise as an offender getting more brazen as they've been unchecked (or perhaps been discovered and had no meaningful consequences from JB&M) but still choosing instances where they victims are vulnerable (e.g. alone in the laundry room rather than in the bedroom with all the other girls around, and targeting the youngest female in public, rather than any of the older girls). If he'd touched one of the older girls during story time then i might have to reconsider this conclusion, but i believe he knew what he was doing was wrong and acted with full knowledge of his wrongdoing.

On a totally different note, I've found the last few days to be very triggering and challenging, and this story has brought up many things i thought i'd dealt with a decade ago - and from the comments here i understand that i am not alone. My thoughts are with all the survivors and those impacted by childhood or other forms of sexual abuse - there's help and support available if you ever need it.

[veron1que]

Because all has changed. The craziest and most horrible rumor that could have been out there is true now.

I get that, but only for us as spectators to their lives. Nothing has changed for the Duggars. As a victim myself of childhood molestation, I can say it very rarely comes to mind and hardly ever motivates my daily life.

Im rather bothered by the notion that all of the girls and their actions have been reduced to "you are doing this because you were molested as a child." They can have personality traits and thoughts that don't have to do with their abuse.

[sense and nonsense]

Because all has changed. The craziest and most horrible rumor that could have been out there is true now.

This doesn't mean that every part of their personality is a reflection of their abuse.

It sounds a little ridiculous to me when people try to relate every incident to their abuse.

From the police reports and the way ATI deals with abuse in general, I don't think most of the victims have truly come to terms with the reality of their abuse.

They've been led to believe that what Josh did was a mistake, a natural urge. In fact, after seeing the media and the world react (how sheltered can they be? We have a thread going to send them letters) they may fully realise the injustice done to them.

But in general, it is wrong to look at a victim only as an abused person. They are still individuals, and this mentality of relating every micro aspect of their personality to the abuse does not help them heal and recover from it.

So no, we don't know that any of the girls are the way they are only because of the abuse, and we should stop treating it that way.

Bolded because I don't want people to skip over that part of the post.

[GeoBQn]

I'm still surprised that TLC hasn't officially cancelled the show yet. Maybe they are waiting to do it during the long holiday weekend, when they assume people will be too busy to notice.

[HarleyQuinn]

The thing I can't shake, do you think the other Duggar kids knew about this before the news broke? I'm going to assume everyone after Joy was clueless, but what about JD, Joseph, and Josiah? The police report I believe said one boy knew (I need to re-read it) but what about the rest?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I just had a thought: when baby Israel was born, Derrick said how great it was to start their family with a boy, so he could be the leader of his siblings.

No way he knew; who could say that with a straight face if they did????

:(

Okay this is just ridiculous. You're basically saying that it's wrong to assume that your newborn son is going to be anything less than a sexual abuser.

They live in a patriarchal society. Hell we live in a patriarchal society. Older brothers in both our culture and there's are supposed to be the protectors and the leaders. They're supposed to be the ones everyone else in the family looks up to. That's what Derick was talking about.

Just because Josh abused instead of protected, just because he provided an example one should never follow, it doesn't mean that Israel will be an abusive brother. And Derick shouldn't have to act like Israel would be anything like his uncle.

[vienna]

Did I miss something? Why is everyone so convinced that every Duggar actions was directly motivated by a crime that occured a decade ago? For all we know this wasn't on the forefront of anyone's mind until the report was released.

[Bridge14]

It was destroyed because the person/company that bought the property had it destroyed. I doubt the parents were making it symbolic. Especially since Josh continued to live with the family for years before marrying Anna.

I know the Duggars didn't have it destroyed. I just found it very odd they had their kids watch the process.

[JuicyDuggar]

I posted on Jill and Jessa's instagrams. Hopefully I wasn't out of line. :-/

I tweeted to them last night. Here's what I said: so many people care and support each of you & your sisters. It was not your fault. You're worthy so take care of yourselves. (had to shorten your to u and such to make it fit) Had a thought to tweet them the FJ twitter but didn't.

[vienna]

Sorry, the Quote in my former post did not work out.

One more Thing: Why does nobody care that the Kids have been spanked with a rod? Thats also no issue at all. Hopefully the media covers what ATI and Quiverfull Lifestyle really means which is not what we saw on TLC.