Bringing Up Bates

[slickcat79]

Kelly didn't use fertility treatments per se. She also was able to get pregnant, and then suffered miscarriages. At least one of them was around the 20-week mark, so later-term. They determined that progesterone treatments/shots could help her maintain the pregnancies, so she used them.

She had the justification that since the "baby" already existed, they should use whatever medical resources they had to protect its life, just like with one of their born children. There is some logic there, but I still think it's splitting hairs. Their schtick is, we believe in accepting the number of CHILDREN god gives us, not the number of PREGNANCIES. So if it's god's will that she get pregnant and then miscarry, that seems every bit as legit as their belief that it's god's will for them to never use birth control ever, and try to get pregnant as much as possible.

[Firiel]

Kelly didn't use fertility treatments per se. She also was able to get pregnant, and then suffered miscarriages. At least one of them was around the 20-week mark, so later-term. They determined that progesterone treatments/shots could help her maintain the pregnancies, so she used them.

She had the justification that since the "baby" already existed, they should use whatever medical resources they had to protect its life, just like with one of their born children. There is some logic there, but I still think it's splitting hairs. Their schtick is, we believe in accepting the number of CHILDREN god gives us, not the number of PREGNANCIES. So if it's god's will that she get pregnant and then miscarry, that seems every bit as legit as their belief that it's god's will for them to never use birth control ever, and try to get pregnant as much as possible.

Meh, I don't see this particular practice as hypocritical. They believe that from the moment of conception, the "life" of the embryo is as important as the life of one of their own children. Hence, the medical treatment to sustain a pregnancy. If a child got appendicitis, they would say that God's will was to use the medical resources available to save that child's life. The same thing goes with the pregnancy. It is God's will to use the medical resources available to save the life of the fetus/child.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously the Bateses are hypocrites, dangerous, etc. I just don't think THIS is an example of that hypocrisy.

[Idolatry]

So should she feel obligated to write out some exact timeline of her miscarriages and how far along she was with each? And then read it off in a talking head?

" Hi ya'll I'm Erin. Me and my husband Chad really want a baby. I am able to conceive through intercourse but due to recently discovered blood clotting issues I haven't been able to maintain a pregnancy. I first got pregnant back in December. I tested before I missed my period and we hadn't even told my parents yet when my period started and I realized I had a very early nmiscarriage. I got pregnant again in January and unfortunately miscarried in March. That one required a D&C and I told ya'all about that since it obviously would have ended up on social media because some little twit snapped a photo. I later got pregnant in July, but had another early loss in late August, again before I let everyone know, since I was very nervous. At that point we decided to see a Doctor to see what was causing this problem. hope I didn't leave anything out? Oh yeah, and one more thing - fuck ya'all.

Maybe you forgot THIS IS HER JOB. This is literally her job to whine about her infertility on her parents' terrible reality show. She chose to go on national TV to complain about her infertility, and they've been completely focused on this storyline. It's not exactly private.

So she either had three miscarriages in about six months, or she didn't. I have no idea; I wasn't there. If I were talking about my own infertility for fun and profit on TV I wouldn't leave out two miscarriages -- and I wouldn't say I can't get pregnant if I had gotten pregnant three times in six months. As someone who has actually struggled with this, the sloppiness makes no sense.

This is reality TV. Main storylines on reality TV need to be clear.

[singsingsing]

Maybe you forgot THIS IS HER JOB. This is literally her job to whine about her infertility on her parents' terrible reality show. She chose to go on national TV to complain about her infertility, and they've been completely focused on this storyline. It's not exactly private.

So she either had three miscarriages in about six months, or she didn't. I have no idea; I wasn't there. If I were talking about my own infertility for fun and profit on TV I wouldn't leave out two miscarriages -- and I wouldn't say I can't get pregnant if I had gotten pregnant three times in six months. As someone who has actually struggled with this, the sloppiness makes no sense.

This is reality TV. Main storylines on reality TV need to be clear.

What the actual fuck?

[FreeHannie!]

I don't care if Erin and Chad are on a crappy reality show that isn't widely watched or if they are the most famous people in America.

They don't 'owe' anyone their story. They can reveal as much or as little as they want.

One of the most annoying things about modern social media culture is the way we feel 'entitled' to know everything about people's lives just because they are in the spotlight in some way.

[Idolatry]

I don't care if Erin and Chad are on a crappy reality show that isn't widely watched or if they are the most famous people in America.

They don't 'owe' anyone their story. They can reveal as much or as little as they want.

One of the most annoying things about modern social media culture is the way we feel 'entitled' to know everything about people's lives just because they are in the spotlight in some way.

I'm all for privacy, especially with infertility. People were very kind to Erin on her miscarriage threads and have respected her privacy generally. Maybe you missed the part where she shared all of this on a reality show?

She has chosen to share her story on national TV. Sorry, but you can't both reveal it on national TV and then say you don't "owe" anyone your story you already told on reality TV.

[slickcat79]

Meh, I don't see this particular practice as hypocritical. They believe that from the moment of conception, the "life" of the embryo is as important as the life of one of their own children. Hence, the medical treatment to sustain a pregnancy. If a child got appendicitis, they would say that God's will was to use the medical resources available to save that child's life. The same thing goes with the pregnancy. It is God's will to use the medical resources available to save the life of the fetus/child.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously the Bateses are hypocrites, dangerous, etc. I just don't think THIS is an example of that hypocrisy.

No one actually believes that. There is no way in hell that any person on the planet could consider a non-sentient embryo to be the same as their living, breathing child. It's just more anti-choice propaganda. They interpret "god's will" to mean whatever they want it to mean, as always.

Of course, I don't blame Kelly for not wanting to experience repeated miscarriages, but then again I've never understood why she couldn't just say, we had a bunch of kids because we wanted some...and then we really liked all the attention :shrug:

[LittleOleMe]

For the record, I never said she should come out and tell everyone her exact time line. I was merely agreeing with a previous poster who said they need to get their story straight. That's all. That article says she had three miscarriages but in her TH she said she had the one and now "can't get pregnant". It's a bit confusing when they are doing interviews and giving two different answers. IIRC, it was Kelly who mentioned the two other miscarriages so it's very possible they didn't want to disclose that information and Kelly either forgot or just didn't care. :shrug:

Personally, I think Erin discussing her miscarriages is great. For some stupid reason, it's still seen as a taboo subject in many circles and I love that she is trying to help other women realize that while it's painful and it really sucks, they aren't alone. Not everyone has a support system, and even if they do, not everyone knows someone who can relate to them.

Kelly had at least two miscarriages between baby 17 and 18. I remember when the Duggars show was still "new" and they had the Bateses on and that little clip-it of who's who came up, it said she was pregnant with number 18. then they were on like six months or a year later and she was pregnant with 18 again/still. Then she finally had baby 18 and the time line wasn't working. At some point Kelly said (either on her show or some internet special or something) that she had had miscarriages, so that made the weird XGG length pregnancy make sense. I think she's had three all together though, because I seem to remember commenting to myself that - counting miscarriages - she's had more babies than J'chelle. Isn't one of her miscarriages named Jubilee?? I know this is online somewhere. I'll have to look for it.

[calimojo]

The doctor also used the term miscarriages, so I don't see the point of debating if she had one or she had three.

It could be that the miscarriage that resulted in needing a D&C was the most significant one for her because the pregnancy was more advanced. She may have had the other ones very early, and didn't feel quite as attached. If she had 2 miscarriages, I have no trouble believing that her doctor had her testing often and frequently for pregnancy, in case there was a chance for early intervention. For all we know they were doing some kind of work up and discovered through lab tests that she had a very early miscarriage, before she even suspected she was pregnant with one of these. They may have been monitoring her HCG levels regularly and noticed some times when it raised, and the dropped. She may have well had a + test, and then started bleeding a day or two later, and experienced it like a heavy period.

I guess I am confused as to why this is such a sticking point for some on here. It isn't as if they have been caught lying, it is more that the terms they have used have some inconsistency. For all we know, when she first did the talking head, maybe there weren't sure if they were going to reveal her struggles fully in terms of how many miscarriages she has had.

To me this is different than when Josh and Anna blatantly lied about being on their own on their RV vacation, when it was clear that Jana was with them and there were multiple sitings of her and pictures. That was a premeditated lie.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I don't care if Erin and Chad are on a crappy reality show that isn't widely watched or if they are the most famous people in America.

They don't 'owe' anyone their story. They can reveal as much or as little as they want.

One of the most annoying things about modern social media culture is the way we feel 'entitled' to know everything about people's lives just because they are in the spotlight in some way.

Exactly. They can share as much or as little as they like about any part of their life.

And yes the entitlement drives me crazy too.

[Bethella]

For the record, I never said she should come out and tell everyone her exact time line. I was merely agreeing with a previous poster who said they need to get their story straight. That's all. That article says she had three miscarriages but in her TH she said she had the one and now "can't get pregnant". It's a bit confusing when they are doing interviews and giving two different answers. IIRC, it was Kelly who mentioned the two other miscarriages so it's very possible they didn't want to disclose that information and Kelly either forgot or just didn't care. :shrug:

Personally, I think Erin discussing her miscarriages is great. For some stupid reason, it's still seen as a taboo subject in many circles and I love that she is trying to help other women realize that while it's painful and it really sucks, they aren't alone. Not everyone has a support system, and even if they do, not everyone knows someone who can relate to them.

Kelly had at least two miscarriages between baby 17 and 18. I remember when the Duggars show was still "new" and they had the Bateses on and that little clip-it of who's who came up, it said she was pregnant with number 18. then they were on like six months or a year later and she was pregnant with 18 again/still. Then she finally had baby 18 and the time line wasn't working. At some point Kelly said (either on her show or some internet special or something) that she had had miscarriages, so that made the weird XGG length pregnancy make sense. I think she's had three all together though, because I seem to remember commenting to myself that - counting miscarriages - she's had more babies than J'chelle. Isn't one of her miscarriages named Jubilee?? I know this is online somewhere. I'll have to look for it.

Kelly had four miscarriages, I don't remember the order but the names were Jubilee, Jewel, Sunny and Zion. That would put her at 23 pregnancies to Michelle's 19 pregnancies (the two sets of twins negate the two miscarriages)

The doctor also used the term miscarriages, so I don't see the point of debating if she had one or she had three.

It could be that the miscarriage that resulted in needing a D&C was the most significant one for her because the pregnancy was more advanced. She may have had the other ones very early, and didn't feel quite as attached. If she had 2 miscarriages, I have no trouble believing that her doctor had her testing often and frequently for pregnancy, in case there was a chance for early intervention. For all we know they were doing some kind of work up and discovered through lab tests that she had a very early miscarriage, before she even suspected she was pregnant with one of these. They may have been monitoring her HCG levels regularly and noticed some times when it raised, and the dropped. She may have well had a + test, and then started bleeding a day or two later, and experienced it like a heavy period.

I guess I am confused as to why this is such a sticking point for some on here. It isn't as if they have been caught lying, it is more that the terms they have used have some inconsistency. For all we know, when she first did the talking head, maybe there weren't sure if they were going to reveal her struggles fully in terms of how many miscarriages she has had.

To me this is different than when Josh and Anna blatantly lied about being on their own on their RV vacation, when it was clear that Jana was with them and there were multiple sitings of her and pictures. That was a premeditated lie.

The D&C was at 8 or 9 weeks, but she had a blighted ovum which means the fetal pole never developed.

[FreeHannie!]

I'm all for privacy, especially with infertility. People were very kind to Erin on her miscarriage threads and have respected her privacy generally. Maybe you missed the part where she shared all of this on a reality show?

She has chosen to share her story on national TV. Sorry, but you can't both reveal it on national TV and then say you don't "owe" anyone your story you already told on reality TV.

You can do both. She has shared what she is comfortable with, but that doesn't mean she owes anyone additional details if she doesn't want to share them.

[rosaline]

Kelly had four miscarriages, I don't remember the order but the names were Jubilee, Jewel, Sunny and Zion. That would put her at 23 pregnancies to Michelle's 19 pregnancies (the two sets of twins negate the two miscarriages)

The D&C was at 8 or 9 weeks, but she had a blighted ovum which means the fetal pole never developed.

Strange that they named one of Kelly's miscarriages Jubilee... Do you know if that was before or after the Duggars' Jubilee?

[LittleOleMe]

Kelly's Jubilee was definitely before J'chelle's. Josie Bates is older than Josie Duggar. Jackson Bates is older than Jackson Duggar.

[rosaline]

Interesting trend. I would be pretty annoyed with Michelle if I were Kelly Bates!

[LittleOleMe]

Not to mention J'chelle wore the same MOTB dress as Kelly. Oh but it was different bc mine was much more modest with a higher neckline (i.e. turtleneck) and more modest length (to her feet) There is constant competition between those two. Look at how fast they got their kids married off after the Bateses did it. The Bateses had three weddings in like five months (Right? Erin in Nov 13, Zach in Dec 13, Alyssa in May 14?? Somewhere like that) And then all of a sudden there's a Duggar wedding (after only physically meeting six months prior) and an immediate pregnancy announcement that if they weren't so gun hoe about purity, I wouldn't believe it's a honeymoon baby and then another engagement and wedding immediately following, bringing the total number of married offspring to 3 and 3. Of course the Bateses have Michael who's been courting Brandon for what? A year? Maybe longer?

I really like that the Bateses include Brandon in their family stuff. He's clearly a part of their family the way most families treat their adult children's significant others. He's in the family pictures and mentioned on their family blog just like Chad and Whitney and John. The Bateses may be just as horrid as the Duggars (although I admit that I don't want to believe that and I want to like them because damn, their PR does a good job of making them likable) but they at least respect their adult children's relationships. Or pretend to. The Duggars, however, clearly do not. Derick wasn't mentioned in the opening lineup even though Jill's pregnancy had already been announced. That's ridiculous. The only thing I'm looking forward to in the February premiere is to see if Derick and Bin get mentioned at all in the line up. "And these are our children …. Jill, she married Derick and they're expecting their first child, Jessa, she married Bin, Jinger …" I'm actually curious to know if Derick will get mentioned but Bin will slighted. After all, Jill's pregnant. Jessa's not. (And Jessa and Bin aren't married yet on the show .. but still .. c'mon) Off topic, but once the Duggars have another married child or two and at least four kids are pregnant with at least their second child, it's going to be one hell of a long intro for their line up. They may have to get hour long shows just to make up for all the people they have to name, and then show, because we need to have clips from every duggarling on the show.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

^seriously?! You'd rather believe Jill had sex before her wedding day (her values, chaperones & all) than a honeymoon baby?

I fell pregnant first cycle we tried...I have several friends who have honeymoon babies. And non of us were religious virgins on our wedding day.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

^seriously?! You'd rather believe Jill had sex before her wedding day (her values, chaperones & all) than a honeymoon baby?

I fell pregnant first cycle we tried...I have several friends who have honeymoon babies. And non of us were religious virgins on our wedding day.

The post said that she would believe it wasn't a honeymoon baby if Jill hadnt put so much focus on the whole purity thing.

And, honestly, it's not like it doesn't happen where people get pregnant shortly before their wedding.

[singsingsing]

Of course it happens, but it's so incredibly unlikely given their upbringing, their lack of alone time, both of their personalities, and the fact that they didn't have long to wait between courtship and marriage. It would be the shock of the century to me if Jill had sex before she was married. I'm not sure about many things in life, but I am 99% certain that child was conceived after they were married.

[Justme]

I finally watched epsd. 2. Chad & Erin seemed to be going to the doctor last summer/fall. He told her to start the meds and see how it goes. To me, it sounded like he thought this could help her stay pregnant. No word on a new pregnancy yet...

[nelliebelle1197]

^seriously?! You'd rather believe Jill had sex before her wedding day (her values, chaperones & all) than a honeymoon baby?

I fell pregnant first cycle we tried...I have several friends who have honeymoon babies. And non of us were religious virgins on our wedding day.

I think that was meant to be rather tongue in cheek.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I think that was meant to be rather tongue in cheek.

Hmm I didn't get that but it could have gone over my head. People on FJ seem to believe weird conspiracy theories over common sense sometimes ;)

[LittleOleMe]

That's pretty much it. I was saying I wouldn't believe it was a honeymoon baby if Jill hadn't been so obsessed with her hymen. Of course it happens, but as someone else said, given the fact that they never spent a second alone until their wedding night and had only kissed for the first time a mere few hours prior to that, I do find it surprising that they were able to go from zero to sixty so quickly.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Hmm I didn't get that but it could have gone over my head. People on FJ seem to believe weird conspiracy theories over common sense sometimes ;)

I don't think it's "common sense" to assume that someone waited till marriage. I think it's extremely unlikely that she didn't have premarital sex, but it's not against common sense to say she may have. It's not like we know for sure that they were ALWAYS monitored and that certain siblings didn't "look the other way" when properly bribed.

If my first boyfriend and I figured out how to fool around in the church during a youth group meeting that my cousin and aunt were in charge of, I'm sure a Duggar child could find a way to have premarital relations without getting caught.

Again, that doesn't mean it did happen, but it's not "common sense" to say it didn't. It's just an opinion based on an understanding of Jill and who she is as a person.

[Majessasticpearls]

Brandon wasn't what I expected at all-he came off as dorky and awkward and gave me a David Waller-esque vibe. Michael seems happy though,so good for her. She's truly very pretty-she always was attractive,but seemed much more insecure before.