Bringing Up Bates

[formergothardite]

what is the new more secretive program?

BTW, I agree with you, if Gil and Kelly are trying to distance themselves, then I really do think they should be honest about that and explain why they had a change of heart. .

It is hard to say what they intend to do, or if they will ever address their religion much on the show.

I do not know the name of it, but a couple of months ago it was revealed that he had been contacting ATI families to get them to join him in a new program(it went along with ATI) he had started. He was greatly annoyed when this information leaked out and it was clear he had no intentions of anyone outside the loop ever finding out about it. I'm not sure if the program went forward once he started getting questioned about it, but he is still very much in charge of IBLP and ATI.

I really doubt they will address their true religion on the show, it is a huge turn off to typical Christians. They will probably continue pretending they are a wholesome, happy Christian family that is absolutely nothing like the Duggar parents.

And NellieBellie is correct Gil and Kelly are much deeper entwined with ATI/IBLP/Gothard than the Duggars. I have seen no indications that they are moving away from the cult or ever plan to admit that Gil was involved in protecting a man who exploited and abused teen girls.

[nokidsmom]

And NellieBellie is correct Gil and Kelly are much deeper entwined with ATI/IBLP/Gothard than the Duggars. I have seen no indications that they are moving away from the cult or ever plan to admit that Gil was involved in protecting a man who exploited and abused teen girls.

This right here should be enough to settle any questions about the family distancing themselves or changing their minds. Frankly, as far as the Duggars go, I find the fact that JB is not in a similar position as Gil rather telling, as in maybe he can't be controlled.

It also bears repeating that Kelly in particular seems much more savvy in portraying her family as being nice and more normal in addition to the family having a more genuine friendly, down-home, "aw shucks" appeal.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think Kelly is about ten times smarter than the Boob and DQ combined.

[formergothardite]

I think Kelly is about ten times smarter than the Boob and DQ combined.

ITA. Both she and Gil seem much more intelligent than JB and Michelle and are fast learners when it came to how to handle reality television fame. We are probably never going to see their shrine to Nathan Bedford Forrest again, I bet she would never admit to not being able to name her children now, and the whole riding starving horses would not be shown. They know what people want to see in a family like theirs and what needs to be kept hidden because it is a turn off. Kelly knows how to spin things to make them look harmless and do it with ease.

[halcionne]

I agree with nelliebelle1197 and formergothardite. These two are pretty savvy.

I finally watched the first episode, and it's a small thing, but the first thing I noticed is that Kelly has upgraded her wardrobe. I actually liked her plain white tees and bib overall jumpers, but she's wearing her Sunday best--heh--in most (all?) of episode one.

And while the Bateses do come off as much more personable than the Duggars and more relaxed in front of the camera, I still picked up on a fair amount of staging/awkwardness. I Erin & Chad's loveseat interview somewhat uncomfortable to watch. It was my first time seeing Chad on film; is he always so sensitive, for lack of a better word? There's nothing wrong with it, I just was a little surprised by how open he was with letting his feelings show on his face. Idk, I'm having trouble verbalizing my thoughts here.

On a similar note, why does David Waller ping people's gaydar and Chad doesn't? Disclaimer: I don't believe that displaying "feminine" mannerisms or behavior are a clue to gayness, and I don't think gaydar is actually a thing. I guess what I'm asking is why David's perceived one way and Chad isn't, when, for me, at least, they both simply don't display stereotypical masculine attitudes. Sorry for going off topic. I just remember FJ declaring David gay during his wedding episode because he was pretty invested in the wedding planning. But that was years ago and there's been quite a turnover of FJers since then. :shrug:

[eh02]

On a similar note, why does David Waller ping people's gaydar and Chad doesn't? Disclaimer: I don't believe that displaying "feminine" mannerisms or behavior are a clue to gayness, and I don't think gaydar is actually a thing. I guess what I'm asking is why David's perceived one way and Chad isn't, when, for me, at least, they both simply don't display stereotypical masculine attitudes. Sorry for going off topic. I just remember FJ declaring David gay during his wedding episode because he was pretty invested in the wedding planning. But that was years ago and there's been quite a turnover of FJers since then. :shrug:

I don't think being more "feminine" or "sensitive" is what's setting off the gaydar with David Waller. And not that being "feminine" means you are gay to begin with, but Chad doesn't even seem especially feminine to me; just more laid back and soft spoken. I said this before, but he's seems like a relatively rare type of fundie man that doesn't seem to be trying desperately hard to prove how masculine and assertive he is. That earns him some points from me, personally. (and before people FREAK OUT, no, that does not mean I agree with everything he says and does, or think the Bates family is perfect and great. :roll: )

Chad very clearly seems attracted to (and in love with) his wife. David Waller...well. That's up for interpretation. Chad seems comfortable in his skin. David does not. That's what sets it off, IMO.

[JMO]

Kelly couldn't name her own kids? How did I miss that? What's the back story?

[alba]

Kelly couldn't name her own kids? How did I miss that? What's the back story?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-ba ... d=12648595

When asked to name her children, Kelly said, "Oh, Daddy's good at that. His memory's better than mine." Gil Bates easily rattled off all 18 names.

Notice she had one fewer child at the time.

[memabelle]

this may have been answered in another forum, but as a noob, i can't understand why people/families take such specific, insanely legalistic advice regarding marriage and family from a man who NEVER married and NEVER had kids (well, that he publicly acknowledged). formergothardite? any thoughts?

Catholics do the same thing.

[nelliebelle1197]

I don't think being more "feminine" or "sensitive" is what's setting off the gaydar with David Waller. And not that being "feminine" means you are gay to begin with, but Chad doesn't even seem especially feminine to me; just more laid back and soft spoken. I said this before, but he's seems like a relatively rare type of fundie man that doesn't seem to be trying desperately hard to prove how masculine and assertive he is. That earns him some points from me, personally. (and before people FREAK OUT, no, that does not mean I agree with everything he says and does, or think the Bates family is perfect and great. :roll: )

Chad very clearly seems attracted to (and in love with) his wife. David Waller...well. That's up for interpretation. Chad seems comfortable in his skin. David does not. That's what sets it off, IMO.

I think that is right. Chad seems attracted to Erin. Davey see,s attracted to Robert Staddon - and vice versa.

[Georgiana]

I don't think being more "feminine" or "sensitive" is what's setting off the gaydar with David Waller. And not that being "feminine" means you are gay to begin with, but Chad doesn't even seem especially feminine to me; just more laid back and soft spoken. I said this before, but he's seems like a relatively rare type of fundie man that doesn't seem to be trying desperately hard to prove how masculine and assertive he is. That earns him some points from me, personally. (and before people FREAK OUT, no, that does not mean I agree with everything he says and does, or think the Bates family is perfect and great. :roll: )

Chad very clearly seems attracted to (and in love with) his wife. David Waller...well. That's up for interpretation. Chad seems comfortable in his skin. David does not. That's what sets it off, IMO.

For me, it's really the backstory.

Chad wanted to marry specifically Erin and pursued her for years.

David didn't want to marry at all, but was strong-armed into picking someone (anyone!), and Pris was single and...there.

I have no reason to doubt that a man who, acting on his own free will, invested years of time and effort to court and marry a woman really, truly wants to be with her.

However, I DO have reason to doubt that someone who was coerced against his express wishes into selecting a partner and who settled on someone he had known for some time but never wanted to pursue really wants to be with her.

[halcionne]

I think that is right. Chad seems attracted to Erin. Davey see,s attracted to Robert Staddon - and vice versa.

Okay, that seems reasonable. Thanks, guys.

I don't think being more "feminine" or "sensitive" is what's setting off the gaydar with David Waller. And not that being "feminine" means you are gay to begin with, but Chad doesn't even seem especially feminine to me; just more laid back and soft spoken. I said this before, but he's seems like a relatively rare type of fundie man that doesn't seem to be trying desperately hard to prove how masculine and assertive he is. That earns him some points from me, personally. (and before people FREAK OUT, no, that does not mean I agree with everything he says and does, or think the Bates family is perfect and great. :roll: )

Chad very clearly seems attracted to (and in love with) his wife. David Waller...well. That's up for interpretation. Chad seems comfortable in his skin. David does not. That's what sets it off, IMO.

For me, it's really the backstory.

Chad wanted to marry specifically Erin and pursued her for years.

David didn't want to marry at all, but was strong-armed into picking someone (anyone!), and Pris was single and...there.

I have no reason to doubt that a man who, acting on his own free will, invested years of time and effort to court and marry a woman really, truly wants to be with her.

However, I DO have reason to doubt that someone who was coerced against his express wishes into selecting a partner and who settled on someone he had known for some time but never wanted to pursue really wants to be with her.

[doubleT]

Another thing to keep in mind, this is the Bateses second time around at a "reality" show. The first one didn't make it. I am sure they learned from doing the first one and this time decided to present themselves differently. I really have no idea though, I never did watch "United Bates of America".

[Snarkle]

I am curious as to how people say that Priscilla was just "available" around the time David was nudged (or pushed) into marriage and he picked her based on her availability. In his own words on their blog, David remembers meeting her in March 2008 when she was at a Journey to the Heart - nearly seven years ago - and were married in early February 2012 (about four years from meeting to marriage) whereas Chad on his own blog says he met Erin in early 2011 and they were married in late 2013 (around three years from meeting to marriage). Yes, David probably was challenged by his parents to get married sooner than he planned (or wanted to), but if we believe his blog, he may have waited a while to officially get the ball rolling with Priscilla (even though he had been journaling about her to his parents for some time), but once it got going, he went from asking her father about courtship to courtship to engagement to marriage in less than six months, whereas Chad was special friends with Erin for well over a year before he got permission to court her in late 2012 and they were married in late 2013. (Apparently I spend too much time reading these fundie blogs.) My point is that David claims that he was interested in Priscilla for a while but put it off in order to fulfill his service until he was at least 25, whereas Chad (and Brandon Keilen for that matter) still completed their determined length of service/schooling but while being special friends.

Now I'm no fan of David - he gives off such an odd vibe I just can't put my finger on, like he's So Overly Enthusiastic about everything - I always wonder what his oldest brother Adam thinks of him. I also think that while Gil is to be condemned for his association with Supreme Creepmaster Gothard, the Waller family is still even more steeped in the murky waters that is IBLP - David and at least a couple of their daughters are still working with or for the organization, and they were required to work there when they returned from Mongolia. They also mingle with Robert Staddon (who is odd in a different way) and a good number of other die-hard IBLP minions, plus they are so close to the mother ship their whole lives are most likely wrapped up in IBLP, whereas at least the others are at least physically farther away (not that that absolves them of any taint of being associated with IBLP). Other than Father Doctor Paine, are the other Paine children still as directly involved with IBLP? It's like the twisted tentacles of this organization have a far reach - kind of reminds me of Hydra.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

On a similar note, why does David Waller ping people's gaydar and Chad doesn't? Disclaimer: I don't believe that displaying "feminine" mannerisms or behavior are a clue to gayness, and I don't think gaydar is actually a thing. I guess what I'm asking is why David's perceived one way and Chad isn't, when, for me, at least, they both simply don't display stereotypical masculine attitudes. Sorry for going off topic. I just remember FJ declaring David gay during his wedding episode because he was pretty invested in the wedding planning. But that was years ago and there's been quite a turnover of FJers since then. :shrug:

David is FABULOUS and Chad is not.

[Aurora rising]

Did someone else notice Alyssa´s sister (Carlin?) after her pregnancy announcement? She said to her "Girl, you are nineteen AND pregnant!" and was clearly shocked by it.... :lol:

[gustava]

David is FABULOUS and Chad is not.

And looks good in an apron.

[MrsAndiAwesome]

I am curious as to how people say that Priscilla was just "available" around the time David was nudged (or pushed) into marriage and he picked her based on her availability. In his own words on their blog, David remembers meeting her in March 2008 when she was at a Journey to the Heart - nearly seven years ago - and were married in early February 2012 (about four years from meeting to marriage) whereas Chad on his own blog says he met Erin in early 2011 and they were married in late 2013 (around three years from meeting to marriage). Yes, David probably was challenged by his parents to get married sooner than he planned (or wanted to), but if we believe his blog, he may have waited a while to officially get the ball rolling with Priscilla (even though he had been journaling about her to his parents for some time), but once it got going, he went from asking her father about courtship to courtship to engagement to marriage in less than six months, whereas Chad was special friends with Erin for well over a year before he got permission to court her in late 2012 and they were married in late 2013. (Apparently I spend too much time reading these fundie blogs.) My point is that David claims that he was interested in Priscilla for a while but put it off in order to fulfill his service until he was at least 25, whereas Chad (and Brandon Keilen for that matter) still completed their determined length of service/schooling but while being special friends.

Now I'm no fan of David - he gives off such an odd vibe I just can't put my finger on, like he's So Overly Enthusiastic about everything - I always wonder what his oldest brother Adam thinks of him. I also think that while Gil is to be condemned for his association with Supreme Creepmaster Gothard, the Waller family is still even more steeped in the murky waters that is IBLP - David and at least a couple of their daughters are still working with or for the organization, and they were required to work there when they returned from Mongolia. They also mingle with Robert Staddon (who is odd in a different way) and a good number of other die-hard IBLP minions, plus they are so close to the mother ship their whole lives are most likely wrapped up in IBLP, whereas at least the others are at least physically farther away (not that that absolves them of any taint of being associated with IBLP). Other than Father Doctor Paine, are the other Paine children still as directly involved with IBLP? It's like the twisted tentacles of this organization have a far reach - kind of reminds me of Hydra.

I think that it is partly because of his blog about him that people feel that he wasn't that into Pris. I copied a couple parts of his about me that says that he wasn't THAT into her, at least to me.

One Saturday morning before going out to join the younger Wallers on the soccer field for some exercise, my parents and I had a good talk. They mentioned that they had been noticing some things in my journals regarding an attraction that I had toward Priscilla Keller. I affirmed that though she had many qualities, I would not feel free to pursue a relationship with her until my birthday later that year.

We picked a quiet booth and settled in for some good conversation. My parents asked me what my goals were for the next year to five years, etc. I knew where they were going with this. I told them that I was kind of in an interesting situation in that I had just worked through some problems at the ministry where I was serving that put a bad wrap on a single guy pursuing a single girl on the ministry campus. I mentioned that though I was confident Priscilla was the only one I could picture ever pursuing in marriage, I also was fine to wait until I was older. I casually mentioned that since Dad did not get married until he was twenty-eight, maybe I should also wait till I turned twenty-eight. Then, if she was still available, then I knew she was the one. My mom, being a very candid communicator, exclaimed, “Chicken! If God has placed all these confirmations in front of you, maybe you should move forward in the light He has given you.†Deep down in my spirit, I knew this was right.

I don't know about you, but when I have been into someone, (way back in the day before I got married), I would not have kept pushing off any reason to start something with them. It just reads like he said something nice about Pris in his journal and his parents latched onto it. He says that she has some qualities but wants to wait until he is 25, which I think is understandable because he had already felt that way before. But once he turns 25 and his parents start pushing again, he wants to wait until he is 28! And then if she is still around, he will be willing. It just sounds like he was hoping that she would not be available or he could just keep pushing his parents off until they gave up.

I personally am not sure if he is closeted as a lot of the fundie males that they show come off as not super manly in what is considered the societal norm. He could have just not really developed an interest in marriage and family or really wanted to just do ministry. Perhaps he wasn't comfortable in the idea of having a lot of kids and was trying to choose to just not ever get married. Unfortunately for him, from what I have read on here at least, they believe that just about everyone is supposed to be married and having babies.

[happy atheist]

Moving on to: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24788