Bringing Up Bates

[sleepygirl1]

Does anybody have a link to watch the second episode? I know the first is on youtube.

[rosaline]

I remember watching some special on the Bates where Kelly answered at least part of this question. She said they looked at it as providing medical care to their unborn child (and I guess unfertilized eggs??)--they wouldn't deny medical care to one of their current children, and since they believe in the sanctity of all life yada yada yada, neither would they deny medical care to a fetus.

I think that when they say, "We'd like as many children as God gives us," there is an unsaid but implied "and God helps those who helps themselves" added in at the end. IMO, it doesn't seem entirely honest, since they talk so much about "God's will," but I can't fault them for using modern medicine. Much better that they do that than go whole hog the other way and just pray whenever someone gets sick.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I get that it's her house, but I feel like that is disrespectful to you and your relationship, especially if you're pregnant.

Well she's crazy and abusive and has never cared about my needs so I wasn't surprised. But now I'm the one putting up boundaries. I hardly see her at all.

[16strong]

Wow... :(

FREE KATIE!

Sorry, that site's already taken. :lol:

[eri]

To be honest I highly doubt that at this point in her life and marriage that even a little bit of her feels pressure that her mother was fertile or that babies are a sign of holiness. She simply wants to have babies. She is a mid twenties healthy beautiful young woman with a strong marriage to an amazing man who obviously adores her. It is natural to want to have children next. I could not imagine going through the excitement and then loss of a much wanted child once let alone three times! Even a surprise pregnancy would be welcomed by my husband and I because we love children in and of themselves. I do not doubt Erin simply wants the same thing.

As much as outsiders looking in can say that this may be a blessing to have time alone with Chad before children, to experience marriage on its own, I know what it is like to desire something from the deepest core of your soul and hoping every month that this is might be the day your whole world changes. And I have not struggled with fertility issues at that. I cannot imagine not letting the deep want and love of children your body continues to reject eat you away with bitterness. Especially when those close to you can so easily experience it.

As much as I hate the notion that adoption is usually plan B or C for most people, I would love for Erin and Chad to look to adopting a child. Bonus points because it is the most selfless form of parenthood and they can afford it.

[Mama Mia]

OK, I know there is obviously not going to be a logical answer to this question, but I have to kind of wonder how fundies reconcile "leaving pregnancy up to God" and having to take medication just to be able to successfully carry a child?

I mean, clearly I don't share their belief and I know that anyone who WANTS to become pregnant should use the medical options available to them to do so. But from THEIR perspective, it just doesn't make sense. You're not allowed to intervene to prevent a pregnancy because only God knows when you should be pregnant. But you're allowed to intervene if your body doesn't seem to be able to carry a child, or if you need fertility treatments or interventions like Erin? Or if you are aging like Kelly or Michelle and pregnancies become much more difficult or risky? What if God is telling you he DOESN'T want you to have children, and you are manipulating his "plan" for you just as much as someone who takes birth control? (FTR, I'm not religious so I don't think God has any plans in particular for my womb :D But as an ex-Baptist, man, this drives me crazy!)

As someone else said, the explanation is that once you conceive you would provide the same sort of medical care as you would for any other child. Which would make anything to maintain a healthy pregnancy allowable.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but I thought they generally didn't believe in getting traditional fertility treatments like IVF? I thought I'd read that they go so far as not even using fertility drugs ( although I could be wrong) .

So they would be okay with anything that makes the womb a more hospitable environment - but not anything that would artificially cause or prevent sperm meeting egg --- does that sound right?

I guess the ones who don't believe in taking fertility drugs would be a step farther - not doing anything that would artificially increase ovulation.

I'm sure this only applies to the hard core quiverfull types though, since even most conservative Christians have no problem with birth control or fertility treatments.

Since they believe life begins at conception, I don't really see why it isn't logical that they would obtain medical interventions to prevent miscarriage. Just like they may trust God, but if their eight year old gets pneumonia they'll still get him antibiotics.

[Ursula]

Sorry, that site's already taken. :lol:

lololol True, BUT that Katie has already freed herself thankfully! There is little hope for these poor young women (and young men) living in these insane fundie families.

I truly hope Katie got to do whatever the fuck SHE wanted for her b-day and didn't feel the need to put her desires to maybe do something more grown up (she was turning 14) because she has a couple of toddler/preschool aged siblings.

[LittleOleMe]

lololol True, BUT that Katie has already freed herself thankfully! There is little hope for these poor young women (and young men) living in these insane fundie families.

I truly hope Katie got to do whatever the fuck SHE wanted for her b-day and didn't feel the need to put her desires to maybe do something more grown up (she was turning 14) because she has a couple of toddler/preschool aged siblings.

Kelly obviously doesn't really care that Katie "gives up her rights" (wtf does that even mean? I've never heard anyone say it like that) to help around the house or take care of the kids. If I had preschool/toddler aged children at home and a 14 year old daughter, I would literally shove her out the door and tell her she isn't allowed to come home for a few hours. Call up her friends and say "hey she needs to go out so come over and get her. Here's some money for you to go to a movie and have some pizza". I mean seriously. These people are obnoxious.

[roddma]

As much as I hate the notion that adoption is usually plan B or C for most people, I would love for Erin and Chad to look to adopting a child. Bonus points because it is the most selfless form of parenthood and they can afford it.

As others say, Erin is raised to believe her only worth is babies. Even in secular society, women are taught this from day one of their existence. In Erin's case, she will never know of being child-free an option. It doesnt exist in their world and otherwise viewed as sin. I don't think the drive to have kids comes from nature. It is more guided by our culture and upbringing.

I read comments form women who say they never had a desire for kids. I wanted kids once but never had them. I think I had that desire because it is seen as the next logical step in marriage. I thought it is what made you whole. We do these things unconsciously rarely thinking if we really want it. Now I realize there is more worth to me. Of course I have moments and wonder what if like if I had married younger etc, but I guess we all do regardless of our circumstance. I wish I could tell Erin you dont need a child to feel worthy or have a valid marriage.

[Idolatry]

Did anyone else notice that Erin said that at the end of the first episode?? "I've been married for over a year and I can't get pregnant". She didn't say she has miscarriages, she said she can't get pregnant.

Yea, they needed to work on this infertility storyline or something because everyone is saying something different and it's confusing.

Adoption is the coolest solution from a realityTV point of view. Think Little Couple.

[Violet]

Yea, they needed to work on this infertility storyline or something because everyone is saying something different and it's confusing.

Adoption is the coolest solution from a realityTV point of view. Think Little Couple.

I took the 'can't get pregnant' to mean 'can't get pregnant and stay pregnant like my SIL and sister.' They did talk about the miscarriage from early last year (the one where was due about 10 days before Whit and that Kelly and Chad both blogged about.) But yeah, I agree it is confusing.

[PityFree]

I was EXTREMELY bored yesterday, so I watched this on ondemand. It was really hard to keep from turning the thing off. Knowing what I know from this board, they are fakey-fake on TV.

Also, Erin's hair is gross, IMHO. It is ridiculously full of product and looks stringy and dirty.

[Mama Mia]

Yea, they needed to work on this infertility storyline or something because everyone is saying something different and it's confusing.

Adoption is the coolest solution from a realityTV point of view. Think Little Couple.

Yes, I'm sure when she is talking about her difficulties in having a baby , a topic that is obviously very difficult and emotional, her most pressing concern is making sure the viewers have a clear chronological timeline and that she uses the correct vocabulary :roll: .

[LittleOleMe]

Yes, I'm sure when she is talking about her difficulties in having a baby , a topic that is obviously very difficult and emotional, her most pressing concern is making sure the viewers have a clear chronological timeline and that she uses the correct vocabulary :roll: .

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I have a friend who has fertility issues. (She tries to laugh it off, saying she's been pregnant more than the Duggars.) She has absolutely no problems getting pregnant. Her problem is that she cant stay pregnant. When discussing her infertility issues she never says she can't get pregnant.

Is this even considered an infertility issue? If Kelly taking drugs to maintain a pregnancy isn't considered using fertility drugs, then is someone who can get pregnant but can't stay pregnant still considered having infertility problems?? It's all very confusing, at least for me.

I could believe Erin's other two miscarriages were after they filmed the TH but she discussed the shower and Alyssa's pregnancy, so that's not possible. They definitely need to come to a consensus on this though.

[Natalie22]

Is this even considered an infertility issue? If Kelly taking drugs to maintain a pregnancy isn't considered using fertility drugs, then is someone who can get pregnant but can't stay pregnant still considered having infertility problems?? It's all very confusing, at least for me.

I think in Kelly's case it was that the sperm would fertilize the egg, but then there was a problem with the lining in her uterus so when the egg travelled down and tried to implant, it couldn't. At least, that's what I remember her saying, but I could be wrong.

[Toothfairy]

As much as I hate the notion that adoption is usually plan B or C for most people, I would love for Erin and Chad to look to adopting a child. Bonus points because it is the most selfless form of parenthood and they can afford it.

I hope they never do as long as they're involved with gothard and her family.

[Toothfairy]

Again Kelly uses science to maintain a pregnancy but then says it's up to god to control her family size? Isn't she 48? So her baby days are over. Instead of trying to maintain a pregnancy why not try to maintain your household and get a job( I know her cult doesn't allow this but her cult also doesn't allow ivf or intervention) she has 19 kids already. Focus on them

[moreorlessnu]

Tori looked so un-enthused when she praised Katie for "being content". It came off as though Tori didn't really believe what she was saying, or that that trait in Katie annoys her.

[formergothardite]

Again Kelly uses science to maintain a pregnancy but then says it's up to god to control her family size? Isn't she 48? So her baby days are over. Instead of trying to maintain a pregnancy why not try to maintain your household and get a job( I know her cult doesn't allow this but her cult also doesn't allow ivf or intervention) she has 19 kids already. Focus on them

Focusing on her 19 kids(she could start by practicing remembering who they are) is hard, trying to have a baby is much easier, especially since that baby will have a sister-mom before it is even born. This woman is just as much of a lazy baby hoarder as Michelle.

[MissBitters]

Again Kelly uses science to maintain a pregnancy but then says it's up to god to control her family size? Isn't she 48? So her baby days are over. Instead of trying to maintain a pregnancy why not try to maintain your household and get a job( I know her cult doesn't allow this but her cult also doesn't allow ivf or intervention) she has 19 kids already. Focus on them

Unless she has said differently on their show, Kelly has indicated on her blog that she does not expect to have anymore children. From her comments it appears like she is okay with it and is excited about her current and future grandchildren.

[Mama Mia]

Is this even considered an infertility issue? If Kelly taking drugs to maintain a pregnancy isn't considered using fertility drugs, then is someone who can get pregnant but can't stay pregnant still considered having infertility problems?? It's all very confusing, at least for me.

I could believe Erin's other two miscarriages were after they filmed the TH but she discussed the shower and Alyssa's pregnancy, so that's not possible. They definitely need to come to a consensus on this though.

So should she feel obligated to write out some exact timeline of her miscarriages and how far along she was with each? And then read it off in a talking head?

" Hi ya'll I'm Erin. Me and my husband Chad really want a baby. I am able to conceive through intercourse but due to recently discovered blood clotting issues I haven't been able to maintain a pregnancy. I first got pregnant back in December. I tested before I missed my period and we hadn't even told my parents yet when my period started and I realized I had a very early nmiscarriage. I got pregnant again in January and unfortunately miscarried in March. That one required a D&C and I told ya'all about that since it obviously would have ended up on social media because some little twit snapped a photo. I later got pregnant in July, but had another early loss in late August, again before I let everyone know, since I was very nervous. At that point we decided to see a Doctor to see what was causing this problem. hope I didn't leave anything out? Oh yeah, and one more thing - fuck ya'all.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I thought with the first miscarriage that the embryo didn't develop at all. If that's the case, and the same is true of her other miscarriages, I totally understand the wording "can't get pregnant."

[actuallyjessica]

has anyone got a link or able to upload it somewhere? there's absolutely no trace of it online and i'm dyiiiing here!

[Firiel]

So should she feel obligated to write out some exact timeline of her miscarriages and how far along she was with each? And then read it off in a talking head?

" Hi ya'll I'm Erin. Me and my husband Chad really want a baby. I am able to conceive through intercourse but due to recently discovered blood clotting issues I haven't been able to maintain a pregnancy. I first got pregnant back in December. I tested before I missed my period and we hadn't even told my parents yet when my period started and I realized I had a very early nmiscarriage. I got pregnant again in January and unfortunately miscarried in March. That one required a D&C and I told ya'all about that since it obviously would have ended up on social media because some little twit snapped a photo. I later got pregnant in July, but had another early loss in late August, again before I let everyone know, since I was very nervous. At that point we decided to see a Doctor to see what was causing this problem. hope I didn't leave anything out? Oh yeah, and one more thing - fuck ya'all.

:clap:

[MrsAndiAwesome]

I have always been a little fuzzy on the belief for those in the Quiverfull movement when it comes to fertility help. I think I remember reading somewhere that Kelly and Gil used help to get pregnant at some point. If they don't use birth control because they are "leaving it up to God" but then go out of their way to use modern medicine to get pregnant, doesn't that contradict itself? To me, leaving it up to God would mean sleeping with your spouse when the mood strikes for you both, not using birth control, but not "actively" trying either. If they believe that God wants them to use fertility drugs to get pregnant, then why don't they believe that maybe God wants them to use birth control to limit the number of pregnancies? I mean if you believe in God and believe that he made us the way he did, that was a long time ago. There were not many people. There wasn't good medical care or any medical care and many women had tons of pregnancies and maybe only a couple living children to carry on the bloodline. No birth control made sense then. But why can't they believe that he put the information in the head of scientists and medical people to make something to keep us from getting overpopulated and to keep parents from having more children than they can take care of? The Duggars and Bates obviously believe in medical care.....so medical care to save them and keep them healthy is o.k. but medical care like birth control is wrong? That is very confusing.....how do they even remember what they believe and why? :think: